Thursday, September 29, 2011

Bible Contradictions?






Theological doctrines:
1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48

3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2

4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16


5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28

6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12

8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19

9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14

10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12

11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17

13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28

14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33

15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8

16. God’s anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God’s anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5

17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12

18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31

19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13

20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9

21. Because of man’s wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man’s wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21

22. God’s attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God’s attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28

23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7
Moral Precepts
24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15

25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
Deut 23:7

27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13

28. The blood-shedder must die
Gen 9:5,6
The blood-shedder must not die
Gen 4:15

29. The making of images forbidden
Ex 20:4
The making of images commanded
Ex 25:18,20

30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10

31. Improvidence enjoyed
Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
Improvidence condemned
1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22

32. Anger approved
Eph 4:26
Anger disapproved
Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20

33. Good works to be seen of men
Matt 5:16
Good works not to be seen of men
Matt 6:1

34. Judging of others forbidden
Matt 7:1,2
Judging of others approved
1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12

35. Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15

36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Luke 12:4
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
John 7:1

37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
Matt 6:5,6

38. Importunity in prayer commended
Luke 18:5,7
Importunity in prayer condemned
Matt 6:7,8

39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
The wearing of long hair by men condemned
1 Cor 11:14

40. Circumcision instituted
Gen 17:10
Circumcision condemned
Gal 5:2

41. The Sabbath instituted
Ex 20:8
The Sabbath repudiated
Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16

42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
Ex 20:11
The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
out of Egypt
Deut 5:15

43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
the same
John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5

44. Baptism commanded
Matt 28:19
Baptism not commanded
1 Cor 1:17,14

45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
Deut 14:7,8

46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
Taking of oaths forbidden
Matt 5:34

47. Marriage approved
Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
Marriage disapproved
1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8

48. Freedom of divorce permitted
Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
Divorce restricted
Matt 5:32

49. Adultery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
Adultery allowed
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3

50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16

51. A man may marry his brother’s widow
Deut 25:5
A man may not marry his brother’s widow
Lev 20:21

52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
Luke 14:26
Hatred to kindred condemned
Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29

53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32

54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God’s ministers
and punish evil doers only
Rom 13:1-3,6
It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35

55. Women’s rights denied
Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
Women’s rights affirmed
Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9

56. Obedience to masters enjoined
Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
Obedience due to God only
Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10

57. There is an unpardonable sin
Mark 3:29
There is not unpardonable sin
Acts 13:39
Historical Facts
58. Man was created after the other animals
Gen 1:25,26,27
Man was created before the other animals
Gen 2:18,19

59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease
Gen 8:22
Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years
Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6

60. God hardened Pharaoh’s heart
Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12
Pharaoh hardened his own heart
Ex 8:15

61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died
Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
All the horses of Egypt did not die
Ex 14:9

62. Moses feared Pharaoh
Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19
Moses did not fear Pharaoh
Heb 11:27

63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand
Num 25:9
There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand
1 Cor 10:8

64. John the Baptist was Elias
Matt 11:14
John the Baptist was not Elias
John 1:21

65. The father of Joseph, Mary’s husband was Jacob
Matt 1:16
The father of Mary’s husband was Heli
Luke 3:23

66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad
Gen 11:12
The father of Salah was Cainan
Luke 3:35,36

67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:2-6

68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity
to Christ.
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian
captivity to Christ
Matt 1:12-16

69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
Luke 2:22, 39

70. Christ was tempted in the wilderness
Mark 1:12,13
Christ was not tempted in the wilderness
John 2:1,2

71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
Matt 5:1,2
Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
Luke 6:17,20

72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
Mark 1:14
John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
John 1:43/ John 3:22-24

73. Christ’s disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff
and sandals
Mark 6:8,9
Christ’s disciples were commanded to go forth with neither
staffs nor sandals.
Matt 10:9,10

74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
Matt 15:22
It was a Greek woman who besought Him
Mark 7:26

75. Two blind men besought Jesus
Matt 20:30
Only one blind man besought Him
Luke 18:35,38

76. Christ was crucified at the third hour
Mark 15:25
Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
John 19:14,15

77. The two thieves reviled Christ.
Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32
Only one of the thieves reviled Christ
Luke 23:39,40

78. Satan entered into Judas while at supper
John 13:27
Satan entered into him before the supper
Luke 22:3,4,7

79. Judas committed suicide by hanging
Matt 27:5
Judas did not hang himself, but died another way
Acts 1:18

80. The potter’s field was purchased by Judas
Acts 1:18
The potter’s field was purchased by the Chief Priests
Matt 27:6,7

81. There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre
John 20:1
There were two women who came to the sepulchre
Matt 28:1

82. There were three women who came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:1
There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre
Luke 24:10

83. It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:2
It was some time before sunrise when they came.
John 20:1

84. There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and
they were standing up.
Luke 24:4
There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down.
Matt 28:2,5

85. There were two angels seen within the sepulchre.
John 20:11,12
There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre
Mark 16:5

86. Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave
Matt 12:40
Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9

87. Holy ghost bestowed at pentecost
Acts 1:8,5
Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost
John 20:22

88. The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go into Galilee
Matt 28:10
The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem
Luke 24:49

89. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at
Jerusalem
Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee
Matt 28:16,17

90. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet
Acts 1:9,12
Christ ascended from Bethany
Luke 24:50,51

91. Paul’s attendants heard the miraculous voice, and stood
speechless
Acts 9:7
Paul’s attendants heard not the voice and were prostrate
Acts 26:14

92. Abraham departed to go into Canaan
Gen 12:5
Abraham went not knowing where
Heb 11:8

93. Abraham had two sons
Gal 4:22
Abraham had but one son
Heb 11:17

94. Keturah was Abraham’s wife
Gen 25:1
Keturah was Abraham’s concubine
1 Chron 1:32

95. Abraham begat a son when he was a hundred years old, by the
interposition of Providence
Gen 21:2/ Rom 4:19/ Heb 11:12
Abraham begat six children more after he was a hundred years
old without any interposition of providence
Gen 25:1,2

96. Jacob bought a sepulchre from Hamor
Josh 24:32
Abraham bought it of Hamor
Acts 7:16

97. God promised the land of Canaan to Abraham and his seed
forever
Gen 13:14,15,17; 17:8
Abraham and his seed never received the promised land
Acts 7:5/ Heb 11:9,13

98. Goliath was slain by Elhanan
2 Sam 21:19 *note, was changed in translation to be
correct. Original manuscript was incorrect>
The brother of Goliath was slain by Elhanan
1 Chron 20:5

99. Ahaziah began to reign in the twelfth year of Joram
2 Kings 8:25
Ahaziah began to reign in the eleventh year of Joram
2 Kings 9:29

100. Michal had no child
2 Sam 6:23
Michal had five children
2 Sam 21:8

101. David was tempted by the Lord to number Israel
2 Sam 24:1
David was tempted by Satan to number the people
1 Chron 21:1

102. The number of fighting men of Israel was 800,000; and of
Judah 500,000
2 Sam 24:9
The number of fighting men of Israel was 1,100,000; and of
Judah 470,000
1 Chron 21:5

103. David sinned in numbering the people
2 Sam 24:10
David never sinned, except in the matter of Uriah
1 Kings 15:5

104. One of the penalties of David’s sin was seven years of
famine.
2 Sam 24:13
It was not seven years, but three years of famine
1 Chron 21:11,12

105. David took seven hundred horsemen
2 Sam 8:4
David took seven thousand horsemen
1 Chron 18:4

106. David bought a threshing floor for fifty shekels of silver
2 Sam 24:24
David bought the threshing floor for six hundred shekels of
gold
1 Chron 21:25

107. David’s throne was to endure forever.
Ps 89:35-37
David’s throne was cast down
Ps 89:44
Speculative Doctrines
108. Christ is equal with God
John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
Christ is not equal with God
John 14:28/ Matt 24:36

109. Jesus was all-powerful
Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
Jesus was not all-powerful
Mark 6:5

110. The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation
Matt 5:17-19

111. Christ’s mission was peace
Luke 2:13,14
Christ’s mission was not peace
Matt 10:34

112. Christ received not testimony from man
John 5:33,34
Christ did receive testimony from man
John 15:27

113. Christ’s witness of himself is true.
John 8:18,14
Christ’s witness of himself is not true.
John 5:31

114. Christ laid down his life for his friends
John 15:13/ John 10:11
Christ laid down his life for his enemies
Rom 5:10

115. It was lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 19:7
It was not lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 18:31

116. Children are punished for the sins of the parents
Ex 20:5
Children are not punished for the sins of the parents
Ezek 18:20

117. Man is justified by faith alone
Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2
Man is not justified by faith alone
James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13

118. It is impossible to fall from grace
John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39
It is possible to fall from grace
Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21

119. No man is without sin
1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10
Christians are sinless
1 John 3: 9,6,8

120. There is to be a resurrection of the dead
1 Cor 15:52/ Rev 20:12,13/ Luke 20:37/ 1 Cor 15:16
There is to be no resurrection of the dead
Job 7:9/ Eccl 9:5/ Is 26:14

121. Reward and punishment to be bestowed in this world
Prov 11:31
Reward and punishment to be bestowed in the next world
Rev 20:12/ Matt 16:27/ 2 Cor 5:10

122. Annihilation the portion of all mankind
Job 3: 11,13-17,19-22/ Eccl 9:5,10/ Eccl 3:19,20
Endless misery the portion of all mankind
Matt 25:46/ Rev 20:10,15/ Rev 14:11/ Dan 12:2

123. The Earth is to be destroyed
2 Pet 3:10/ Heb 1:11/ Rev 20:11
The Earth is never to be destroyed
Ps 104:5/ Eccl 1:4

124. No evil shall happen to the godly
Prov 12:21/ 1 Pet 3:13
Evil does happen to the godly
Heb 12:6/ Job 2:3,7

125. Worldly good and prosperity are the lot of the godly
Prov 12:21/ Ps 37:28,32,33,37/ Ps 1:1,3/ Gen 39:2/
Job 42:12
Worldly misery and destitution the lot of the godly
Heb 11:37,38/ Rev 7:14/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Luke 21:17

126. Worldly prosperity a reward of righteousness and a blessing
Mark 10:29,30/ Ps 37:25/ Ps 112:1,3/ Job 22:23,24/
Prov 15:6
Worldly prosperity a curse and a bar to future reward
Luke 6:20,24/ Matt 6:19,21/ Luke 16:22/ Matt 19:24/
Luke 6:24

127. The Christian yoke is easy
Matt 11:28,29,30
The Christian yoke is not easy
John 16:33/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Heb 12:6,8

128. The fruit of God’s spirit is love and gentleness
Gal 5:22
The fruit of God’s spirit is vengeance and fury
Judg 15:14/ 1 Sam 18:10,11

129. Longevity enjoyed by the wicked
Job 21:7,8/ Ps 17:14/ Eccl 8:12/ Is 65:20
Longevity denied to the wicked
Eccl 8:13/ Ps 55:23/ Prov 10:27/ Job 36:14/ Eccl 7:17

130. Poverty a blessing
Luke 6:20,24/ Jams 2:5
Riches a blessing
Prov 10:15/ Job 22:23,24/ Job 42:12
Neither poverty nor riches a blessing
Prov 30:8,9

131. Wisdom a source of enjoyment
Prov 3:13,17
Wisdom a source of vexation, grief and sorrow
Eccl 1:17,18

132. A good name is a blessing
Eccl 7:1/ Prov 22:1
A good name is a curse
Luke 6:26

133. Laughter commended
Eccl 3:1,4/ Eccl 8:15
Laughter condemned
Luke 6:25/ Eccl 7:3,4

134. The rod of correction a remedy for foolishness
Prov 22:15
There is no remedy for foolishness
Prov 27:22

135. A fool should be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:5
A fool should not be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:4

136. Temptation to be desired
James 1:2
Temptation not to be desired
Matt 6:13

137. Prophecy is sure
2 Pet 1:19
Prophecy is not sure
Jer 18:7-10

138. Man’s life was to be one hundred and twenty years
Gen 6:3/ Ps 90:10
Man’s life is but seventy years
Ps 90:10

139. The fear of man was to be upon every beast
Gen 9:2
The fear of man is not upon the lion
Prov 30:30

140. Miracles a proof of divine mission
Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31
Miracles not a proof of divine mission
Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19

141. Moses was a very meek man
Num 12:3
Moses was a very cruel man
Num 31:15,17

142. Elijah went up to heaven
2 Kings 2:11
None but Christ ever ascended into heaven
John 3:13

143. All scripture is inspired
2 Tim 3:16
Some scripture is not inspired
1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17

24 comments:

Jace said...

Holy crap, I posted this same list around 8am this morning - sans the video! Now inflate my ego and tell me you saw it on my site first and it gave you an idea for the article

Otherwise this is one really cool coincidence! LOL

NO2HWA said...

Hey Jace: I was looking for something to go with the video and had pulled up the list from evilbible.com. So I guess it was a coincidence - or maybe a Holy Spirit moment??? :-) Just check and saw it on our site too. Now we both can be implicated in destroying the faith of innocent sheeple in the COG's......ho hum.....

Anonymous said...

Notice the lack of comments from any of the "the Bible is seemless and inerrant" crowd.

Where is Michael's rebuttal?

the inerrant crowd said...

The 'Bible' is full of errors because it is a mistranslation of human idiots. Even the name 'Bible' is wrong.

But the 'Word' of the Creator is His Word and therefore.... [goes without saying]

Only a moron would think that the King James, NIV, or any other humanly-produced text is infallible.

It is the Spirit that reveals ALL TRUTH, not the 'Word' alone.

Even with a perfect text, only those spiritually-led could understand it, i.e., parables.

It is designed so that SCOFFERS CAN'T understand it. So how can you possibly judge it if you can't understand it? The hubris!

Jace said...

LMAO Anon, I was just thinking that. I know the Armstrongite response would probably be "We've been saying it all along, the bible is a coded book! These contradictions are just part of the code!"

Not sure how Mr.Maynard will weasle his way out of this one though.

@No2HWA: We're not just destroying COG faith with this one lol. Awesome how we both posted this though!

Jace said...

Oh, and that video was just so full of win, it left me speechless.

Anonymous said...

'These only aaaapppeeeear to be contradictions. They are spiiiiiritual and only the spiritually minded can understand that they are not actual contradictions. Sheesh...." ;)

M.T.Excuses

Michael D. Maynard said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael D. Maynard said...

Very thought provoking, but it is obviously put together as a parody and not intended to be taken seriously. No theologian or person familiar with his Bible would treat it any other way. I won't waste my valuable time going through each seeming contradiction but I will examine the first one. Both are completely different issues and are not contradictory in the least.

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31, This passage refers to the physical creation that God had just completed which He considered satisfactory.

The actual passage is:
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

The second passage has noting to do with the first in that the second passage is referring to the actions of mankind becoming evil and the interference by the fallen angels that married women as detailed in the book of Enoch.

God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

The entire context begins in verse 1;

1 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal[b]; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. 5 The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

In conclusion, which is obvious, the two are dealing with two different topics and do not contradict.

But it does give pause to the Bible believer. An excellent Bible drill. I think I will borrow it if I may?

Jace said...

"obviously put together as a parody and not intended to be taken seriously"

You wish it were obvious Mikey! Unfortunately, labeling it "obvious parody" does not make it such - although it probably serves to slather a soothing salve over that ever widening sore of doubt in your mind. In reality this was intended to be taken quite seriously - as well it should. It was humorous, to be sure, but watch any of the other videos posted by that user and you will see that there is a running theme here.

"I won't waste my valuable time going through each seeming contradiction but I will examine the first one."

Well, that's mighty convenient... Though I should probably thank you for sparing us your pathetic attempts to reconcile your absurd beliefs. In any case, your one and only attempt at confronting this laundry list of fail - not counting your attempts to dismiss it as simple "parody" - was exceedingly weak. It was rather humorous to read though...

"the second passage is referring to the actions of mankind becoming evil and the interference by the fallen angels that married women as detailed in the book of Enoch."

Nephilim?! Jesus f*cking Christ... You're not one of those people are you? Sorry Mikey, but you don't get to quote from a book (of enoch!) that was not considered worthy of inclusion in the "word of god" to begin with. But let's play your game. God made humans. God made angels. God was happy with his creations. Then, later on, this omnipotent, omnipresent god of yours changed his tune and regretted his creation. Poor planning on his part or maybe he's just not "all-knowing" after all. Lucky for you, you can just blame satan...

Also, thanks for bringing up Genesis 6! Let's look at verse 3, shall we? Then the LORD said...their days will be a hundred and twenty years.” Whoops! Guess ol' yahweh decided to flip-flop on that decision too. C'mon Mikey, cook up another excuse for yahweh fail #864? (yeah, I just made that number up. Don't go all sophist on me just yet)

Jace said...

And by the way, I realize it's no longer on the front page but I didnt want you to think anyone had forgotten about your failure to respond over on this thread:

http://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2011/09/getting-sodom-straight.html

Just a friendly reminder.

Jace said...

Well Mikey, that's great and all, but I didn't see you address my previous comment? Is that the best you got?

Anonymous said...

Obviously no one is going to even attempt answering over 140 topics on a blog. How long would that take, and who is still going to be reading this particular topic after a week anyway?

However looking at them briefly, some are so blindingly obvious not contradictions that I begin to despair about comprehension of the English language, never mind the original Hebrew or Greek.

Take Jace’s comment on Genesis 6v3 – you only need a very basic comprehension of English to see that what is being talked about here is how long God is giving the inhabitants of earth to repent – absolutely nothing to do with the length of life of the individual.

And during the 120 years there was a very clear sign, the witness of Noah, and the building of the ark.

Jace said...

Anon, thank you for making multiple points for me:

1) if you want to interpert Genesis 6:3(and this is debatable at best) to mean god was giving humanity only 120 more years to live, fine! The problem is, last I checked, Noah and his family were... wait for it... part of humanity! If you believe they survived the flood, and restarted the human race, then Yahweh flip-flopped right there. Humanity didnt just get a last 120 years, it has continued, uninterrupted. Of course it has, since the concept of a worldwide flood is simply ridiculous to begin with.

2) If you want to interpert the 120 years (as I have) to be Yahweh saying "I'm fed up with these damn people! No more Methuselah, Jared or Lamech types living into their 900's! From now on, I'm only giving them 120 years to live!" then you have seen yahweh flip flop again! Until the last century or two, the majority of humans never even made it to 60. We can thank modern medical science for increasing our lifespan more recently.

Of course, the "120 years" statement is sandwiched in right between the end of the 5th chapter (dedicated almost entirely to discussing the long lifespan enjoyed by many) and the bit about the Nephilim, which seems to be the catalyst for Yahweh's genocidal urges. Of course, the floodwaters get further muddied by the fuzzy nature of the timetable provided for the building of the ark:

Genesis 5:32 states: "After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem"

After he was 500? Is that 501 or 599? who knows!

but then you have Genesis 7:6 which states: "Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth"

What this means, thanks to the vague nature of the bible, is that the flood occurred anywhere between 1 and 99 years after Noah is last mentioned in Genesis 5.

Assuming the bible follows some kind of timeline, why does it mention noah in chapter 5 (at the age of 500) after god has decided to give humans 120 final years to live, only to then go on to chapter 6 where god goes back to being happy with mankind for the first couple of verses. If the flood started when Noah was 600 and the deciding point was 120 years earlier, then he would have been 480 years old when yahweh first concocted his genocidal plans. You can in no way, from a straight reading of scripture, deduce with 100% certainty that the 120 years is a period of time counting down to the flood.

Therein lies the biggest problem with the bible! It can be interperted any number of ways, to mean any number of things. Factor in the plethora of contradictions and it is utterly amazing that people would base their lives around the thing in the first place.

Jace said...

And how dare I forget to respond to this!

And during the 120 years there was a very clear sign, the witness of Noah, and the building of the ark.

Seeing some old crackpot building some boat in the middle of nowhere would have been the bronze age equivilant of Harold Camping erecting hundreds of billboards across the country. Yeah, he witnessed to the world too. If this is supposed to hammer home your point, it did a piss poor job.

Jace said...

And on that note, this is the last time I will ever get into a debate regarding bible translation or interpertation. It is an exercise in futility, I'd rather bang my head against a brick wall for an hour. I'm not going to make the case against an incredibly flawed book, by using that same book as my evidence. This is the philosophical equivilant of arguing over Star Wars VS. Star Trek. I'll leave the scripture un-twisting to Dennis Deihl from this point onward. He's eminently more qualified to tell you how full of shit your holy book is, and he has a far greater level of tolerance for having even open it than I ever will again.

Onward...

NO2HWA said...

I thought there for a moment you were going to start singing "Onward Christian Soldiers" :-)

Jace said...

LOL the best hymn of them all, in hindsight, typically sung after the last service of the last great day thus signifying an end to 7 days of nonstop sermons and boredom.

Anonymous said...

Jace, it would be nice if you could at least treat the Bible as you would any other work of literature. I don’t ask any more than that of you. That way you wouldn’t perhaps be making such inane comments.

You talk of Noah mentioned in Gen 5 as being 500 years old, and conclude that therefore God couldn’t have waited 120 years to bring the flood, which it records as occuring when Noah was 600 years old.

That is pure nonsense. Chapter 5 is giving genealogy. The age people had their first child, and how long they lived after that.

Look – try a little very basic maths. Noah’s father Lamech was 182 years old when Noah was born – he died 595 years later – in other words when Noah was 595, 5 years before the flood. Noah’s grandfather was 187 years old when Lamach was born, and he lived another 782 years. We just saw Lamech lived 777 years, so Methuselah would have outlived him by 5 years, which means he died the year of the flood.
Try using the same logic on Methuselah as you used on Noah, and what do you get?

Your whole response lacks any vestige of logic or sense. You object to Noah and his family living on beyond the 120 years, which you take to mean God flip-flopped on what he had stated. Obviously not – why was God regretting what He had created – because of the evil that was going on, that was the reason given that God was going to destroy mankind. But then he found Noah didn’t entirely fit into this description – so Noah and his family survived.

It was a change of condition. Noah didn’t meet the criteria that God had laid down as the reason for humanities destruction, so that decision did not apply to him. Basic logic really, Jace

I could carry on with some of your other lack of logic or knowledge of the English language, but as you have stated that “this is the last time I will ever get into a debate regarding bible translation or interpretation”, there is probably little point.

Unless of course you are planning to flip-flop???

Jace said...

”Jace, it would be nice if you could at least treat the Bible as you would any other work of literature. I don’t ask any more than that of you. .”

You know Anon? I would love to be able to treat the bible the same way that I would Moby Dick: read it once and move on with my life. Unfortunately, in the little place I call reality (somewhere you have yet to visit) the bible is not treated as though it were just “any other work of literature”. It is probably the most printed book in the world and sadly, it is taken at face value by far too many people. The people I work with, drive past, live next to, do business with, police my town, educate my future children, and most importantly, shape the laws of my country, take that book quite seriously. It was taken seriously by my parents, so much that they decided to raise me under the influence of it, in so doing, teaching me to believe that this dangerous work of fiction was anything but. Now try to leave your false equivalence at the door, I don’t ask any more than that of you...

”I could carry on with some of your other lack of logic or knowledge of the English language, but as you have stated that “this is the last time I will ever get into a debate regarding bible translation or interpretation”, there is probably little point.”

Of course a Brit would try to lecture me on the English language! Sorry Professor, I'll be the first to admit that my hastily typed remarks are far from perfect. Chalk that up to my eagerness to enter the fray before proofreading what I write. A bad habit to be sure, but don't think I didn't catch a couple of your own errors. I do find it rather cute that you seem to think you've got me by the balls with that quote of mine. Let me explain to you the concepts of past and present tense: I said “This is the last time...” in this instance, the words “This is” denote present tense, put another way: referring to the ongoing debate. A different translation, say, the New King Jace version might read: “This current debate, will be the last time I ever crack open a bible for the purpose of responding to some dipshit believer who wants to argue "proper" scripture interpretation with me”. Instead, if I were speaking about debating via scripture in the past-tense, (no longer considering the debate to be ongoing), I would have said: “That was the last time...”. On that note, please don't think for a moment that I intend to stop mocking scripture for the rest of my days. I can assure you, it's going to happen and with great frequency!

(continued below)

Jace said...

”You talk of Noah mentioned in Gen 5 as being 500 years old, and conclude that therefore God couldn’t have waited 120 years to bring the flood, which it records as occuring when Noah was 600 years old.”

Incorrect. My conclusion was that the bible (and this story in particular) is all over the proverbial map. (I also try not to place limitations on imaginary beings ;-) ) Just like you believers can arbitrarily toggle between literal and figurative interpretations of scripture, you also have the luxury of alternating between the linear and non-linear unfolding of events. Something that would be confusing to most people, something an all-knowing god would almost certainly seek to avoid if this were truly his message to mankind. Again, I find it humorous that you want to put the bible on the same level as any other work of literature, while ignoring the fact that most modern books - excluding perhaps Choose Your Own Adventure books (of which the Bible is the original)- follow a linear progression of events from page to page, chapter to chapter. Flashbacks, dreams, hallucinations are almost always explained as such. Not always the case with the bible. It will discuss a later time period in one chapter then progress to an earlier time in the next chapter without making any distinction. Additionally, this man-made book goes to extreme lengths to mention this mundane detail or that, the sort of minutiae that totally distracts the reader from the story and leaves far too much open to their own interpretation to begin with.

“Your whole response lacks any vestige of logic or sense. You object to Noah and his family living on beyond the 120 years”

Wrong again. I could care less how long Noah or his family lived (if they even existed at all). The point you missed, is that this god of yours, the one who is “the same yesterday today and forever” flip-flops worse than a politician! Again, someone would have to be insane to say: “That does it! I'm so mad at the current generation that I am going to flood the earth! But give it a century or so, I'm booked solid for the next 6,227 weekends...” Ignoring for now the cruelty of Yahweh, lets look at the other major point you ignored entirely. I'm going to break it down for you one last time: You cannot possibly be as certain as you are as to what this 120 year period signifies. Repeat: You cannot be sure. But you condescend to me like I don't know what I'm talking about and you do. In reality, it could be interpreted both ways. Either way you slice it, Yahweh looks like anything but an all-knowing, all-powerful being.

”It was a change of condition. Noah didn’t meet the criteria that God had laid down as the reason for humanities destruction, so that decision did not apply to him. Basic logic really, Jace”

Basic logic!? Listen up moron, basic logic dictates that the thousands of babies who drowned in the flood also did not “meet the criteria that God had laid down as the reason for humanity's destruction”. But what, there was no room on the Ark for them? You don't get to talk about logic, you jackass. The “god” you worship is nothing but an impulsive, genocidal maniac who plays favorites with one family out of millions. He indiscriminately murders the entire human race – men, women and children – not to mention 99.999% of (non aquatic) animal life (what did they do?) - and all because he was unhappy with the crowd from over a century ago? All because some angels and humans supposedly fooled around? Again, poor planning on Yahweh's part! Couldn't he have seen this coming? Couldn't he have made the human reproductive systems incompatible with angels? And again, why did the animals have to die? Why did it have to be a flood at all? Why not a plague that targeted only humans like the villain in James Bond's Moonraker? In the end, that's all your god is: A super-villain. The first and the worst, if the bible is to be believed.

Thankfully, it's not.

Jace said...

Oh and one more thing. The next time you mention the problem of translating from languages like Greek and Hebrew, consider this: Remember the tower of Babel? It was your "all-knowing, all-powerful" moron-god who decided to confuse the tongues of men in the first place (well, not really ;-) ). He is without a doubt, the worst, most absurd, idea humanity has ever concocted.

Anonymous said...

Hi Jace,

First can I clarify that I had no intention of being critical of your personal use of the English language.

As you mention, my own use of English is certainly not perfect. If that is the way that it came across, then I certainly apologise, because that was not my intention at all.

The point I was attempting to make was that it was coming across to me that you just were not reading what the Bible was actually saying on particular issues. The particular point I was homing in on was Genesis chapter five, which reads as a very straightforward listing of genealogy, births and lengths of lives. Now I realise that there is no way you would accept the actual life spans given in Genesis 5, but that wasn’t the point I was making.

My point was that the theme of chapter five is giving a list of people and their descendants and ages, and doesn’t have direct relevance to chapter 6, 120 years, God talking to Noah, or any other issue in chapter 6.

This is my point on the subject of knowledge of English language, not a personal attack on your usage – I am sorry if it came across that way.

Incidentally, I was intrigued that you took me to be British. You are right, but was it that glaringly obvious? Or is there a way you can check where an anonymous person comes from, or was it just a guess? Just curious.

I haven’t been contributing to these boards for a while, and I don’t like being just anonymous, so I plan to adapt the name of ‘John Dotto’. This would have no meaning to anyone except maybe one person in my distant past. The name I used previously had got just a bit too well known.

I may continue this if I get the time.

Regards

‘John Dotto’

Jace said...

"Incidentally, I was intrigued that you took me to be British. You are right, but was it that glaringly obvious?"

LOL yessir, it was pretty darn obvious to me. I've only ever heard people from the UK use the term "maths"

Thank you for the clarification as to your comment not being a personal attack, please disregard my use of the terms "moron" and "jackass".

I look forward to reading any other rebuttal you may offer.

Onward