Saturday, August 4, 2012

UCG: God Only Hears Prayers of Those Wearing Jacket and Tie?




UCG is ready to start a week of video conferences in order to save money because of their huge income drop after COGWA walked off with a large percentage of their ministers, members and tithes.  Though it is fun to mock it, it is a rather wise choice to do since the economy has been in such a mess around the world.  Coming up with new ways to accomplish old things is always a good idea.  However, UCG still seems to be stuck in a couple of areas.  70+ years down the line and Armstrongism still cannot figure out what kind of gospel they need to be proclaiming!  Seriously??.  Even worse, in 2012, they are still arguing over clothing standards.  These two topics are on their list of discussions:

On the agenda for this session is a lengthy discussion on a proposed “Public Proclamation Identity” that seeks to fulfill the Media Strategy #9 from the 2012-13 Strategic and Operation Plan. We will also be discussing the future of the Strategic Planning and Finance Committee and the viability of the church fulfilling its mission statement.

I am assuming "Public Proclamation Identity" is an innocuous way of saying, "How do we make our message and church looks like a Christian organization instead of a whacked out cult?"

A ruling has been requested for Sabbath attire – what is appropriate Sabbath wear at church services for men who speak, lead songs and give opening and closing prayer. The Council will discuss this issue before ruling on it.

Does God honestly care if a person speaking, giving a prayer or leading a song is wearing a tie or not?  Is a prayer delivered in a jacket and tie more meaningful and worshipful than in a polo shirt?

35 comments:

Byker Bob said...

Yes, this is one of the aspects of the Pharisees which prompted Jesus to call use the analogy of the "whitened sepulchre". Look right on the outside. That kind of stuff matters to other people who see and make value judgments, but does not matter to God who sees the heart.

Seriously, how can anyone justify this type of dress standard? I mean, you can't very well say "Well, darn it, if suits and ties were good enough for Jesus and the disciples, they're good enough for me!"

BB

Douglas Becker said...

Wear robes: It's Biblical.

It makes so much easier to follow the Scripture to "gird up your loins" which is pretty awkward in a business suit.

Problem solved.

Send me an honorarium.

Anonymous said...

"70+ years down the line and Armstrongism still cannot figure out what kind of gospel they need to be proclaiming!"


Herbert W. Armstrong tried to preach the gospel (or "good news") of the "soon coming" kingdom of God to the entire world.

Herbert W. Armstrong also tried to deliver something he called the Ezekiel warning message to the modern descendants of the lost ten tribes of Israel. He seemed especially concerned about Britain and the United States, which he taught were descended from Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh.

All the confusion taught today by the various splinter groups and individuals about what the gospel is, and what to preach, and how to do it, is just the result of everyone now rejecting what Herbert W. Armstrong had always taught all along in the past and trying to come up with something different.

Byker Bob said...

Well, Anonymous, when you have someone falsely claiming for themselves the title of apostle without the confirming and obvious witness of God, and when that man teaches a blatantly untrue, and readily disprovable theory, such as that the US and BC are modern descendants of Manasseh and Ephraim, honesty requires that you abandon falsehoods and embrace truth.

False teachers always leave confusion and disillusionment in their wake. That is why God says what He says about them, and holds horrible punishments in store for them if they do not repent. I realized back in 1975, when Jesus did not return according to HWA's schedule (prior to HWA/WCG's frantic backpedaling, damage control, and prophecy revisions) that HWA was not of God. With something so serious, that negatively affects so many peoples' lives, it's one strike and you're out!

BB

Anonymous said...

"A ruling has been requested for Sabbath attire – what is appropriate Sabbath wear at church services for men who speak, lead songs and give opening and closing prayer."


Notice that the requested dress code is just for people who stand up front at UCG Sabbath services.

The UCG is full--from top to bottom-- of unrepentant, unconverted unbelievers behaving badly. That is why they talk about appropriate dress only for those who stand up front. It is much too late to try to modify the behavior of the ignorant, lazy, stubborn, godless, UCG slobs in the audience.

In the Worldwide Church of God under Herbert W. Armstrong, all the men, whether in the audience or standing up front, simply dressed in their Sabbath best and wore suits and ties.

UCG people going to a meeting or interview with someone important, or even on a date of importance to them, might then be concerned about their appearance. Yet, when they come before God, they don't care how they look or behave. Fortunately for them--in one sense anyway--God does not go to the UCG meetings. Also, since the UCG is just going on its way back into the world, why not dress down for that occasion?

Douglas Becker said...

Hey, hey, hey now!

This is a white collar crime scam going down: You have to dress the part of the elite businessman to take the mark's money!

Steve Kisack said...

"A ruling has been requested for Sabbath attire – what is appropriate Sabbath wear at church services for men who speak, lead songs and give opening and closing prayer. The Council will discuss this issue before ruling on it."

MY COMMENT: Ha! The con men can't even make a simple ruling on a simple matter without having to get together and have a meeting? My god! What a bunch of pansy-ass wuses.At least when Herbie made a decision about something...he made it, like the makeup doctrine.Where's Herbie when we need him for these trivial matters?

Anonymous said...

David C. Pack's Restored Church of God has a booklet called God's Principles of Healthful Living.

From PART 7: PERSONAL HYGIENE

"In every arena, an absence of conscious effort to maintain order results in confusion and disorder. Pertaining to the human body, the neglect of personal hygiene is demonstrated by the image of the 1960s hippie. Filth, confusion, and disorder are only natural when one defers to laziness, making no effort to promote cleanliness and order."


Look out! Here come those filthy UCG hippies. They don't wear neckties and they don't take baths.

Of course, since spiritual principles are much more important than these merely physical things, those UCG slobs should use any available soap and water first to wash out their filthy, lying mouths. Then, get a haircut and buy some decent clothes.

Douglas Becker said...

The rule is that you should make sure that your torn blue jeans have been washed in the recent past.

And do make certain that your t-shirt doesn't have something "provocative" on it.

Anonymous said...

I was always suspicious of religions with a uniform. Now I'm suspicious of all of them, but that's another story...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:
All the confusion taught today by the various splinter groups and individuals about what the gospel is, and what to preach, and how to do it, is just the result of everyone now rejecting what Herbert W. Armstrong had always taught all along in the past

HWA does not set the standard, Jesus Christ does. And nearly every COG has as its chief mission to preach the gospel to the world as a witness, which is something Jesus never told us to do. I challenge anyone to find one shred of evidence that Rod Meredith has even the slightest intention of doing even the smallest part of the Matthew 28 Great Commission. LCG brags about doing the Work of God better than anyone else, but in reality they busy themselves doing something Jesus never told us to do, and not doing what He did tell us to do. -anon43

Douglas Becker said...

So never pray naked!

Douglas Becker said...

Concerning the honorarium: It should be at least $10,000.

I should be home on Tuesday, so the local minister can deliver it. He should still be able to recognize me, even though I've lost some weight after leaving your frustrating little cult.

Contrary to public opinion, I do take bribes -- I won't do what you want me to do, and I will still do what I planned to do -- but I still take the bribes.

Douglas Becker said...

Prefer cash.

$100 dollar bills are good.

Douglas Becker said...

Oh, go ahead and take it out of third tithe, the way you did to bribe the couple over the incident of the stalker in your church.

Thanks.

Douglas Becker said...

Oh, wait... that was second tithe (tithe of the tithe), wasn't it?

Sorry.

Anonymous said...

anon43 said...

"HWA does not set the standard, Jesus Christ does. And nearly every COG has as its chief mission to preach the gospel to the world as a witness, which is something Jesus never told us to do."


JESUS SAID, "And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a WITNESS unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14, KJV).

Just who do you think was supposed to do that preaching? The bad guys? The false religious leaders? The Roman Catholic Church and its Protestant daughter churches?

Early on, Gerald R. Flurry and his satanic PCG cult CHANGED their main commission from preaching the gospel to warning all the "evil Laodiceans." His (unstated) main commission is to try to destroy former WCG members and their families, and to try to make HWA and God appear to be as crazy and evil as he himself is.

Roderick C. Meredith and his LCG came up with a hybrid gospel by taking the idea that Jesus came to die for our sins and ADDING it to the gospel of the kingdom of God that HWA had taught. RCM then whined that the Protestants had missed HALF of the gospel by not knowing about the kingdom of God part. Some say RCM has brought Paul's double curse on himself by teaching this different, hybrid gospel.

Years ago the Council of Evil and its UCG already had an anti-social, semi-retarded, demon-influenced moron leading the singing and saying it was time for some "gospel music." The (unstated) main commission of the UCG is to provide paychecks for the "ministers" while they try to finish Joseph Tkach's job of taking the people back into the world.

Anonymous said...

"Look out! Here come those filthy UCG hippies. They don't wear neckties and they don't take baths."

Or, maybe they do take baths, and the bad odor coming from them is from their stinking attitudes.

Anonymous said...

Byker Bob said...

"...and when that man [HWA] teaches a blatantly untrue, and readily disprovable theory, such as that the US and BC are modern descendants of Manasseh and Ephraim, honesty requires that you abandon falsehoods and embrace truth."


For sure, HWA was wrong about WWII being the end and Hitler winning, wrong about 19-year time cycles leading up to the WCG fleeing to Petra in 1972, wrong about 1975 in Prophecy! and the return of Jesus, and even wrong when he fell back on 1996 being the end of 6,000 years of human history.

However, since it is so "blatantly untrue" and "readily disprovable" according to you, perhaps you could go over the details of just exactly how you personally disproved the theory that the US and Britain are descended from Joseph's sons.

Anonymous said...

OMG Anon, do you realize you just awoke the Balrog of Morgoth? Fly you fool!

Douglas Becker said...

perhaps you could go over the details of just exactly how you personally disproved the theory that the US and Britain are descended from Joseph's sons

DNA.

It's scientific.

It's in the blood.

Whether or not Byker Bob personally disproved that British Israelism is a load of crap is arguable. A number of us chipped in.

And not to put too fine a point on it, there are at least four other proofs, not the least of which is the Failed Prophecy that is based on it.

Not only that, but it also works to prove the Mormons are full of it, an unanticipated side benefit.

But you can look it up for yourself over at Armstrong Delusion and other places if you are hungry for truth.

Which we all doubt.

Douglas Becker said...

And some time, we will discuss a couple of commentaries on Ezekiel 37, which absolutely does not what Herbert Armstrong said and has been carried on with the proof texting by the Armstrongists to this very day.

Daniel 8 and the 2300 day prophecy becomes absolutely problematic and careful analysis shows that it really is 2300 days and not 2300 years. It doesn't work. I can never work. There aren't three kingdoms in Daniel 8, only two.

Disproving Herbert Armstrong with his proof texting is easy once you know how, and that's even for those who believe the Bible.

Utter nonsense.

And UCG knows it, they just don't know what to do with it.

And that's the problem.

Byker Bob said...

To the anonymous poster who asked me to disprove British Israelism:
Check out my articles over at Painful Truth on the subject. You may also want to visit the very excellent website treating the same topic which Douglas Becker has put together.

The Bible does not teach British Israelism. The Bible does teach Christian Israelism. Problem is, HWA, who was a middle school dropout with no background in theology completely misunderstood the books of Acts, Romans, and Galatians, failed to recognize that there were both Jewish and Gentile Christians, that the Jerusalem Council established different standards for the Gentile Christians, but that Paul still had problems in his day with judaizing Christians who believed that in order to become a true Christian you had to first become circumcised and observe the 613 tenets of the law of Moses.

I'd also highly recommend that you read the entire works of Josephus rather than just excerpts, and also read the works of the antenicene fathers, many of whom were the disciples of Jesus disciples. Armstrongism is very pervasive in anyone's mind who has ever been part of that movement. You can't take their word for anything related to something so important as your eternal salvation, so please do take the time, do your due dilligence, and reinvestigate virtually everything! I got a lot of huge surprises as I did this myself, so expect some major jolts!

BB

Byker Bob said...

www.hwarmstrong.com, look to the right side of the screen with the pictures, scroll down to the British flag superimposed over a crown. Click on it. You'll be taken to the article discussing whether QE sits on the throne of David, and will be able to access the first article in that series.

I'm not trying to appear to be some sort of egomaniac here by linking to my own article; just responding to your question which you specifically addressed to me. There are also a number of excellent articles by other authors on the same subject which James has included on the PT website.

BB

Assistant Deacon said...

We have an RCG troll lurking on this page. We need to rid ourselves of such creepers who do not seem to understand that we're not in lockstep with self-aggrandizing yahooslike David Seepack and his minions.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:
JESUS SAID, "And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a WITNESS unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14, KJV).

Just who do you think was supposed to do that preaching?


Thank you for providing evidence that those who preach the gospel as a witness to the world are doing something Jesus never commanded us to do.

To answer your question, Revelation 14:6 is absolutely a fulfillment of the Matt 24:14 prophecy. "Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people". Will some church do it between now and then -- who knows? But we ought to be busy doing what He commanded us to do instead of engaging in some fruitless mission in which the church leaders have no accountability. As I heard in LCG, "If God isn't calling anyone, that's not our fault. We're preaching the gospel better than anyone!" Translation: "We aren't growing and it's God's fault." This empty mission of preaching the gospel as a witness leaves RCM completely unaccountable for the lack of growth in LCG. Why do you think he chose such a mission in the first place?

Painful Truth said...

Not to mention that HWA invented the Eu beast prophecy...
www.hwarmstrong.com for the video.

Anonymous said...

I was in line with a couple of white supremacists at a Chick-fil-A. They believed in British Israelism.

They were some scary-ass Christians, so I didn't tell them that they should be wearing jackets and ties.

Norm

Byker Bob said...

Just as a general comment and in passing, there is a reason why we call it "Armstrongism". It is a system based on the belief that Herbert W. Armstrong was God's end time apostle. That, not history, not logic, not science, is used as support for all of the falacious extrabiblical theories which are part of Armstrongism.

It matters not that a brilliant historical scholar such as Jared Olar could debunk "The True History of the True Church" using actual primary source references. It matters not that modern genetics totally blows away any possibility of British Israelism (heh heh, but it doesn't blow away "Christian Israelism"). A true Armstrongite won't even read what the antenicene fathers wrote. He'll just label them as Catholics even though some were disciples of Jesus disciples, and go on believing that Simon Magus started the Catholic Church. Worse yet, he'll believe that the poor Germans actually underwent a race change so that they can be Herbert W. Armstrong's Assyrians in prophecy. And, he'll believe that all of the major figures of the Bible were white, and married white people!

Just as Rastafarianism is based on Haille Selassie, Armstrongism is based on Herbert W. Armstrong. And we used to laugh at Catholics for their attitudes towards the Pope!

BB

Anonymous said...

"Will some church do it between now and then -- who knows? But we ought to be busy doing what He commanded us to do instead of engaging in some fruitless mission in which the church leaders have no accountability."


"Afterward he [Jesus] appeared unto the eleven [remaining apostles] as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he [Jesus] said unto them [the eleven apostles], GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD, and PREACH THE GOSPEL to every creature." (Mark 16:14-15, KJV).

Byker Bob said...

Noticed another thing up a little higher in the thread. I hate to see someone automatically classified as an "RCG Troll". You never know when someone could be in the early stages of being troubled by ACOG teaching, and could simply be expressing questions in terms of their own understanding, just to see how some of the rest of us have dealt with them. You wouldn't want to blow someone like that off, you'd want instead to help them.

That's not to say that we haven't had people from the ACOGs, or people pretending for their own amusement to be from the ACOGs, come here to taunt us. We have.
I'd rather err on the side of assuming good intentions, and trying to help, unless a bad pattern becomes evident.

BB

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:
"Afterward he [Jesus] appeared unto the eleven [remaining apostles] as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he [Jesus] said unto them [the eleven apostles], GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD, and PREACH THE GOSPEL to every creature." (Mark 16:14-15, KJV).

Yes, but why are we to preach the gospel to the world? As a witness? Absolutely not. The very next sentence in Mark: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved". Matthew tells us to make disciples and baptize them. Luke tells us to preach repentance and remission of sins. Paul, in 1
Cor 9 is clearly obsessed by getting men saved. "I became all things to all men that by any means I might save some." We are to preach the gospel with the goal of getting people to believe, to repent, to have their sins remitted, to be baptized and commit their lives to God. Whether that actually happens or not is up to the person and God. But we are very clearly told what our objective should be, and it is not to preach the gospel as a witness. That is the path of the lazy evangelist; one who doesn't want to get down the the nitty-gritty of actually helping people change their lives. Yes, only God calls people, but our role in that process goes far beyond that of a witness. -anon43

Anonymous said...

"Worse yet, he'll believe that the poor Germans actually underwent a race change so that they can be Herbert W. Armstrong's Assyrians in prophecy."

The idea that the Germans were the Assyrians always bothered me. It was so easily disprovable that even as a high school student I didn't see how it could possibly be true.

The Romans encountered dozens of tribes along their northern border from modern Romania to Britain, and they called them all "germanii". If they had continued north, they would have found even more of them. So, as far as the nation of "Germany" or the descriptor "Germanic" is concerned, it isn't a terribly accurate term for identifying peoples extracted from previous antiquity. The germanii were a mishmash of different peoples who came to Europe at different times, none of whom wrote anything down.

What we know today as England was previously seven kingdoms, some of which were Angle kingdoms previously from the peninsula of Denmark, and others which were Saxon kingdoms previously from Saxony, not far away on the north coast. Later, Vikings made incursions into the British Isles, some of whom were also from the area of Denmark, and others who were from Norway. They also went to Iceland, among other places. Some of them stayed.

When Adolf Hitler came to power, he had visions of reuniting all the nations that had believed had previously been the "Aryan" people. The Teutons were a textbook case for Hitler of the "Aryan" race. On the map, the Teutons territory was sandwiched between the Angles and the Saxons.

Now, if anyone had starting getting into specifics, saying that, well, we know who the Suebii were because of [primary source historical document], and then do the same for the, Costobocians, Cimbrians, Angles, Teutons, Saxons, Vandals, Goths, etc., and therefore we can trace everyone back to Babylon or wherever, that would be a different story. But none of those people left any primary source historical documents behind for us to suggest where they came from and what their identity was before settling in the forests of norther Europe. The earliest record we have of them is Roman, and the Romans neither knew nor cared where they came from originally. Forcing the descendants of Israel to fit neatly within modern political boundaries is complete horse manure. Who knows, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob may be nothing more than a mythical figures from a middle eastern bedtime story. It sure used to put me to sleep.

So, anyway, if you claim that Germany is Assyria, you're claiming that at least Austria, Switzerland, The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Scandinavia, Iceland, and Britain are also Assyria.

Assistant Deacon said...

It was satire, the troll post was.

Besides, most of the people who ramble on and on about "going into all the world" and preaching the gospel "to every creature" never actually do it themselves.

They join up with some group that claims to do it, and send them their money so they can pretend they're doing it, too.

Good intentions.

Hahaha, good one, BB.

Byker Bob said...

Good understanding of the history of the Germanic tribes and the problems inherent in HWA's doctrines of the lost ten tribes, Anon 8:14!

If we've found anything from the horizons opened up by the mapping of the human genome, it is that the Jews who have resisted assimilation around the world are most closely related to the Arabs and other people who surround the nation of Israel. As one person put it, basically the Israelites are simply another variety of Arab.
How white people magically became Israelites is beyond me, especially in the case of Anglo Saxon people, starting with the fact that Manasseh and Ephraim were half Egyptian!

BB