Sunday, March 17, 2013

Dave Pack: My Church Is So Amazing "It will take your breath and leave your ears ringing."



Can Dave Pack's arrogance and pomposity get any bigger?  Check out the arrogant self-serving post he has written about himself.  The article he refers to is so mind numbingly stupid that you will sit in amazement at his sheer arrogance.  Yet, this fool thinks his message is so vitally important  that he says your salvation will be at risk if you ignore it!

According to the self-appointed apostle/prophet:
 "it will be the worst decision you have made since God called you. Believe this!"   He also makes the claim that every single COG member still alive, in or out of the COG will soon be brought back into the fold with Uncle Dave. 

Announced earlier, the most important and conclusive article I have written to the Worldwide Church of God splinters has been posted! I promise this will be the single most crucial one you will ever read. If you do not read it all, it will be the worst decision you have made since God called you. Believe this!

If there were just one book or article I have written that you could be compelled to read, this would be it. Start it, and you will almost certainly go on to read (and study) it multiple times!


God wants His people together. A detailed and powerful prophecy reveals that He is planning to bring it about. This article introduces how and why God’s people—every last one—will SOON be back together!
David C. Pack

Here is the world's most important article ever written, by the world's most important COG minister reigning over the worlds largest and most powerful COG ever to exist.

He starts the article off by making a veiled threat.  This is his LAST extensive article directed to the COG members.  Soon the end will be here and Uncle Dave and crew will be gone, so listen up boys and girls!

This article, my last extensive one to the offshoots of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG), reveals the part you control. (It also begins to prepare God’s people for a coming special, powerful prophecy, now underway, that God is guiding.)

Uncle Dave has this warning to all in LCG, COGWA, UCG and other splinter groups.  Listen to Uncle Dave or you will be lost forever!

If you are in the United Church of God (UCG), Living Church of God (LCG), Philadelphia Church of God (PCG), Church of God, a Worldwide Association (COGwa), or any other splinter or sliver that came out of the WCG, this will be the single most important article you will ever read. If you do not read it all, it will be the worst decision you have made since God called you. BELIEVE THAT!

All of you heretics in these groups need to take heed.  Your leaders will try and stop Uncle Dave from getting his message across to you.  They will attack Uncle Dave in sermons, articles and member letters.  Be prepared!

Your leaders will attack this article. In fact, they will do everything in their power to defeat its understanding out of desperation to keep you from acting on it!

Uncle Dave wants you to know that Jesus Christ has not hidden the RCG from you and its magnificence.  The RCG is a shining light in the gloomy darkness of the COG.:

Jesus Christ loves His people above all else. He would never leave them unable to know where is His Church, Work, Truth and Government. If He did, the question would forever remain for those who still cared about these greatest of matters, “Where do we go?” One man’s opinion would be as good as another.

If you are one of these former COG members who now no longer attend church anywhere and are disillusioned you had better wake up!  Uncle Dave is here to rescue you and bring you home to the one and only TRUE Church of God.

This article transcends and encompasses everything about your calling. If you are not IN God’s Church—however this might have come to be—you are headed toward losing God’s Spirit and eternal death! All hope of salvation is lost to you if you do not break free from confusion and return to the only Church built by Jesus Christto become a branch reconnected to the Vine (John 15:1-2, 4-5, 7). I repeat, the article proves this—conclusively!

Beware of anyone who criticizes or debunks Armstrongism.

Now note Mr. Armstrong’s summary: “You are an enemy” and “serving the devil”—minister or lay member!—if you are in any way scattering against God’s Church. Come to grips with why you may believe Mr. Armstrong was wrong. With so much at stake—very salvation!—be brutally honest. The wrong answer means paying the ultimate price.

Uncle Dave lists three points by HWA on why people come to the true Church.  If you do not believe HWA or Uncle Dave, then this is your destiny:

The stage has been set. You either do or do not believe the above three foundational points of truth. If you do not, and have no intention of returning to what you once believed, stop reading now. Your thinking has been permanently overthrown and the article cannot help you. If you do believe them, then buckle down and focus because now it gets serious!

Uncle Dave's jesus christ has a phone!  Does yours?  If your COG has a Jesus christ with no phone then run out the door!

The Greek word for “voice” is phone (fo-NAY’). Telephone derives from it. Like most today, Christ has a phone, and like all people who have one, He uses it. But, just as some do not answer their phone or a knock at their door, some will not answer Christ when He calls them from danger. Think of suspense movies when someone is calling another person warning of kidnappers or intruders seeking to bring harm, and the phone ringing without being answered. Christ calls His sheep through His Spirit in them—leading them, using each person’s name.  

Uncle Dave just cannot understand why people continue to follow COG leaders in other groups:.  He has this to say to you:

Also ask: How could one continue to knowingly follow strangers—false ministers who teach wrong doctrines and oppose God’s Work—and keep the Spirit of Christ? Scripture makes plain that brethren who follow false ministers cannot retain God’s Spirit indefinitely. TIME IS RUNNING OUT. If you read this article and “put off” following Christ’s voice—decide that you can ignore it for a time—ask why Christ should extend you more mercy than the many years He has already allowed.

Apparently Jesus Christ is going to get really pissed off if you read Uncle Dave's letter and do nothing about it.  You have had since 1996 to get your act together. Jesus Christ is not going to wait any more for you!

 Also ask: How could one continue to knowingly follow strangers—false ministers who teach wrong doctrines and oppose God’s Work—and keep the Spirit of Christ? Scripture makes plain that brethren who follow false ministers cannot retain God’s Spirit indefinitely. TIME IS RUNNING OUT. If you read this article and “put off” following Christ’s voice—decide that you can ignore it for a time—ask why Christ should extend you more mercy than the many years He has already allowed.

The arrogant fool lays out these stipulations that HIS christ demands:

Not a respecter of persons, Christ gives every Christian the same choice. It’s follow or rebel. There are no other alternatives. Stay simple. Let’s use our imagination by picturing a “conversation” between Christ and any person with His Spirit who is outside His Church—meaning every person in every WCG splinter or sliver existing today. Some will follow. But others will not. We examine the latter:

First, Christ through His Spirit commands, “[Name], return to My one Church.” The person answers, “No. I’m going to continue following a stranger.”

Christ next commands, “Come back under My government.” The reply? “No. I refuse. I will never follow one leader again. I like my freedom.”

Christ then directs, “Start paying My tithes to the only place I am working. They belong to ME.” The answer? “No! I’m paying them to the organization I attend, even though they are led by those who are against you. It’s my choice.”

Christ reminds, and again commands, “I called you to do My Work. Start helping MY one organized effort to announce the true gospel and to warn the great nations of Israel.” The response? “No! I’ve decided you have various works going on. I picked my favorite.”

Christ goes further, “Leave your family and friends in the splinters, and follow Me.” The same response: “No! I’m comfortable with them. And they need me. I don’t want to hurt them or upset the family.”

Christ commands yet again, “Leave ALL the damnable heresies you are hearing and return to every one of My doctrinal truths.” The person answers, “No! I have changed my mind about some things Mr. Armstrong taught. Joe Tkach may have been a false apostle but he got some things right that Mr. Armstrong got wrong. I am sold on these other ideas. I’ve been told they are right and that I should believe them.”

Finally, Christ DEMANDS, “Come to where I lead and work—REATTACH TO ME—the VINE.” The person says, “NO! I will NOT reattach to you or fellowship where you lead and work! I am staying where I am! My minister may be a stranger, but I like him. I have decided that I am attached to you where I am.”

Would Jesus Christ accept these answers, simply replying, “Well, that’s okay, you are an exception. You can still have My Spirit. I won’t take it from you”? No! This would be rebellion in its worst form! If the new convert, the one given God’s Spirit outside His Church, must follow Christ or lose God’s Spirit, why would it be different for those who were once more mature Christians—for those who possibly have had God’s Spirit for decades and were for years in God’s Church? These would have greater responsibility to return to the Church—and fast! For these, even a little stubbornness would be dangerous. While we might conclude that the new convert would be given more time, the person away from Christ for 18-20 years—and who once KNEW BETTER—would seem to be a candidate for less patience, and maybe much less after Christ’s command to return.

If you resist Uncle Dave with his foolish rants and his amazing church then you will be committing the Unpardonable Sin!   


The Unpardonable Sin

We are still not done with Matthew 12, and the grave difference between gatherers with Christ and scatterers against Him. There is one final element to what Christ taught—and it is BIG! Those who knowingly work against the leading of God’s Spirit are in danger of the unpardonable sin!

We pick up in verse 31—immediately after Jesus explained gathering and scattering. His very next words were: “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Spirit [meaning the Spirit of Christ at work leading His one Church], it shall NOT be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Either make the tree [each person] good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree [each person] corrupt, and his fruit corrupt” (vs. 31-33).

This is a plain warning not to resist or work against where God’s Spirit is working. Many are actively doing this today. To these Christ says, “You are against Me and that will not be forgiven.” Read Acts 5:39, and pause to let it sober you. It is possible to “fight God.” Take a moment to read Matthew 12:30 and 31 together. Do not break in context what Christ made inseparable.

What an arrogant little prick!

But never fear!  Gods most amazing super-duper Church of God is growing with  lightening speed and has more money than any other Church of God out there.

An unbelievably POWERFUL WORK is underway in The Restored Church of God. Our income is exploding, one of the reasons our media is doing the same. This is because we did not break the grand pattern set by Mr. Armstrong—any of it! It is because Jesus Christ actually does head this Church. In another year, probably maximum, the profile of God’s Church and true Work on Earth will be beyond imagination. It will take your breath and leave your ears ringing.

Uncle Dave closes with this arrogant comment. He emphatically knows that you WILL be coming back to him and HIS church.  The Restored Church of God is the only place to be.

You have been duly warned.

I state emphatically, on God’s authority, that every last person—member or minister—throughout the world who is determined not to lose God’s Spirit—certainly many thousands—is coming to The Restored Church of God. Other new converts—many more thousands because of the soon-to-be-immense size of God’s Work (Rev. 10:11)—will be called to work alongside them in the tiny handful of years remaining before those of Philadelphian mind and condition are separated and taken to be protected from the Great Tribulation and Day of the Lord.

Upon being led by Christ through His Spirit to see and understand that you are outside the Church He heads—every reader of this article—return to Christ’s Church with all due speed! This is Christ’s command. Otherwise you will SOON lose God’s Spirit. Do not ignore or put off this understanding. After years away from Christ, you are weaker and more spiritually fragile than you know. Do not procrastinate—do not permit human nature to convince you that you need not act NOW! Do your homework
Yes Dave, you certainly are an arrogant prick.

56 comments:

Anonymous said...

Uncle Dave, the two witnesses called, they said, "Argo F*ck Yourself".

Anonymous said...

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another." (Galatians 5:22-26).

Anonymous said...

In my opinion, Just replace "Christ commands" with Dave Commands" and you've got a winner. Christ is nowhere in this letter.

Anonymous 5:14 states"

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another." (Galatians 5:22-26).

Yes, yes, and yes! That's right, and how much of THAT did you see in this letter? The fruits he talks about are worldly business fruits. What a load of cow poop his article is! Hey you know that thing that the poopie-poopie comes from? I'm reminded of that reading this. I cannot get over the absolute arrogance of this letter. This is pure disgust.

Of course, most of us here know better then not to believe a bit of what this dude says. Ego, threats against salvation, judgement of people's spiritual conditions, unpardonable sin if you don't join this church - BULL! Dave Pack has as much right to judge God's people as Pee Wee Herman. It's a load of nonsense that he will have to answer to God about, in my opinion. Using fear to get members is to me abominable.

Dave said every last person is coming back? Not going to happen. And to think he spoke that on Christ's authority.

Again. What a load of BULL. Beyond words. Just.. beyond words.

Velvet said...

*sigh* Where to begin?

"God’s people—every last one—will SOON be back together!"

Well, the Packatollah is doing a BANG-UP impression of all the false prophets in Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, who said the captivity would be ended before the prophesied seventy years.

So, in a way, "Uncle Dave" IS fulfilling prophecy with these screeds...just not the prophecy he THINKS he's fulfilling, unfortunately.

Oh, and by the way, "Uncle Dave," there is NO human government on earth that has been appointed by God over His Church. (By which I am referring to the Worldwide Church of God, which has NOT lost its true name, contrary to Junior's shenanigans in the States. If that's a thing for you, that is; I believe the prophecy that our name will be changed, and the truth -- parts of it -- given to strangers, has been fulfilled, by Junior's actions in 2008.)

Best you get that in your head, otherwise you'll be walking a short plank yourself, come the Third Resurrection. Anyone who thinks any splinter group OUTSIDE of the Church is the true Church, needs to read the admonitions in Jeremiah, where those who flee the captivity of Jerusalem (a metaphor for the Church) will LOSE their lives, but those who submit to it, will save the lives of those around them who they can turn back to God, and away from idolatries.

Anonymous said...


"Dave Pack: My Church Is So Amazing 'It will take your breath and leave your ears ringing.'"


Well, David C. Pack WILL take your MONEY and leave your head buzzing.

It is amazing the way David Pack thinks that the "fruits" are all the money that he has shouted out of his followers.

David Pack is right about the various WCG splinter groups being full of all sorts of heresy and evil. The PCG, GCG/LCG, UCG/COGWA, as well as some smaller groups, really are extremely bad and will only continue to degenerate and decline. However, this does not guarantee that the RCG is the answer.





Corky said...

Sounds almost like one of those chain letters that threatens to curse you for 20 years if you don't send a copy to 20 other people.

Only...this is worse, this sounds like the insane ravings of a mentally disturbed and/or potentially dangerous lunatic on a par with Jim Jones.

Anonymous said...

The bible has many interpretations. And if you don't have an IQ over 200 and spend 100 years in bible study you can never figure it all out, so you lose.

G.G. said...

Brrrrrrrrrrring! (My telephone)
G.G....."Hello, this is G.G. May I help you?"
.JC....this is Jesus Christ.
GG......"Jesus Christ?! I didn't know you had a phone."
J.c.......Oh, yeah. "Phone" means. #%^*(gobbledygook) in Greek. Time is running out and I want you back.
G.G..... "Back where.?"
JC.......back to the Worldwide Church of Hell...or the restored one or something like that --- the one with the "f".... Ing TRUTH, stupid. (Notice the capitalized letters. I, Jesus W. Christ, taught the old F#*€ker to capitalize important words to get people's attention.
G.G....".I find that kind of irritating. Besides I was never in the Worldweary Church of Godlessness. For that I will be forever grateful. You know, J.C., ole buddy, I used to see copies of "The Plain Truth" laying around back in the 60's or 70's and I was fooled maybe 4-5 times. I'd pick up that slick-ass magazine and start to read some interesting-looking article about something going on in the world. Then, WHAM! Right in the middle of the story there would come this bat-shit crazy ranting about some biblical prophesy or something. You never saw a magazine shut as fast as I did those. And I would say (to myself) "Damn! Fooled again! It didn't take too many times before I left The Plain Truth laying right where it was when I walked in. No human being has the ability to foresee the future. Don't you know JC, the fortune telling ladies in the carnivals are fake. The Psychic Network also wasn't very accurate."
JC......I think you are right. You can put me on your "do Not Call list.

Joe Moeller said...

PACK IS NOT LYING!

Should you decide to join his church, it will literally...

"TAKE YOUR BREATH"

It will do so by slowly killing your soul, self image, and life force until you stop breathing.!

So at least Pack has some "truth in advertising" here.

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Joe Moeller said...

Anonymous at 5:27 PM above wrote:

"Dave Pack has as much right to judge God's people as Pee Wee Herman."

I respond...

YOU ARE WRONG!

Pee Wee Herman has MORE of right to judge God's people than Dave Pack. Well, at least in my humble opinion!

Luv,
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

RSK said...

Weeeeeeell... ive still got breath and my hearing, but my head does hurt mildly from reading through that drivel.

Questeruk said...

Velvet said...

“there is NO human government on earth that has been appointed by God over His Church. (By which I am referring to the Worldwide Church of God, which has NOT lost its true name,”……..“Best you get that in your head, otherwise you'll be walking a short plank yourself, come the Third Resurrection.”

Hey Velvet, do I detect a touch of the David Pack’s here from yourself – i.e. return to the Worldwide Church of God, or you are in the Third Resurrection?

Just wondering….

Anonymous said...

How can be right? He's blasphemed against the Holy Spirit by calling it a force and not God.

Anonymous said...

Dave Pack once pastored my church.

A more arrogant bully you will never know. There were times I wondered if there was an ounce of decency in the man. He is specifically one of the reasons I left the WCG and Armstrongism for good. For him to insist that people must "come back," and by definition to a church he leads, is despicable and hypocritical.

Anyone who follows this blowhard deserves the grief that will result.

VonHowitzer said...

So many sentences - split over and over - by hyphens - are so hard to follow - and baseball seasons starts - soon.

Head Usher said...

O.M.G. So much fearmongering! If there is a hook in your mouth, Dave Pack intends to yank on it. Too bad for Dave, I took the hook out already.

He never had me to begin with, but if he had, he would have lost me with the hyperbole. And he doubly lost me at the word "government."

Anonymous said...

NO2 Asks:

"Can Dave Pack's arrogance and pomposity get any bigger?"

Sure! Just wait...

DennisCDiehl said...

Hearest Thou Thine Humble Servant...

Yet, and behold, three times now have I come unto thee to publically discuss, debate or chat about the Bible and how thou filtereth it through thine magnificient mind for others to learn of. And three times hath mine ears heard not from thee. Like heartfelt prayers that go unanswered, yeah long time, speakest thou not unto this request. Truly thou art like the Most High in this betimes.

Thou, who has the largest theological and Biblical website on this earth. Thou who alone knows the mind of God and to and through whom the Christ speaketh only...where art thou? Mine eye seeth thee not nor do my ears hear from thee.

Surely in all thine overarching awesomeness thou wouldst time for a mere nobody as mine self find? Call thou unto me and I will come and speak with thee publically about all things Biblical.

My soul languisheth. Only speak and I shall come to thee. Spring cometh, snow melteth and the road be they clear into thine Most Holy Place.

Hear me now, oh wretched man that I am. Bring me into thine presence and let us converse of amazing things from the Word, which eye seeketh not to see nor ears desire to hear, neither has entered into the heart of thine flock things that be not contained in thine overarchingly huge Biblical online storehouse.

Shortly I hope to come unto thee. Bring who thou wouldst and the parchements. Only ______________, is with me and I have no idea who ___________ actually would be as my circle is small.





Anonymous said...

You know that he takes pride in all of this negative response, right? It must mean that the world is fighting him with all of its (blogs) might. Since this is Satan's world and he's not a part of it, he must therefore be Godly and thus he must be doing God's work...

Do you see the pointlessness of all of these "fuck you" posts? Armstrongism is like the collection of insects under a rock. You know it is disgusting, yet you still insist on flipping the rock over to see what they are doing now. Same old activities? What a surprise. Sure, there may be a new bug that you haven't seen before or maybe a big bug ate a bunch if little ones but the paradigm remains: insects under a rock.

I hope that one day you'll find the peace of mind to know what's under the rocks of this world and the confidence in yourself to not feel the urge to waste your time by looking.

Bad PK

Anonymous said...

747,381

As Mr. Pack loves numbers so much, I wish to keep track of how many COG brethren stop by and would know he's been asked to share his views with someone of similar background who no longer shares them. One with so little infuluence in the lives of people surely cannot compete with the one who has so much...

DennisCDiehl said...

I could not agree more PK (I assume that means "Personal Karma" or close)

I've given into it myself and don't care for it when I do. It's a step backwards.

One can snipe and comment til blue in the face which is why I have sincerely asked Dave Pack to sit with me publically and stand up for himself in all things Biblical.

These men, and there are others, really get into the lives of very sincere people and really cause havoc in relationships. They cause things to be done which need not be done and ideas to be accepted that do not deserve to be accepted. Their truths, like a Bob Thiel, are merely more opinions in this world and no one seems to have gotten the "I speak for God in these end times" right yet in over 2000 years of "shortly."

My request to debate or discuss is sincere. He has to know I am asking. His silence speaks volumes to me if to no one else.

That's the last time I will ask him.

Anonymous said...

RCG is not the answer! Hundreds of us found that out. Of course we are the "enemies of the work" now. Their is no "perfect" COG organization out there. We are all human and can fail miserably. Here we are heading toward the Passover and instead of Pack's emphasis being on Jesus Christ, it is on himself and putting others down.

Anonymous said...

"Here we are heading toward the Passover and instead of Pack's emphasis being on Jesus Christ, it is on himself and putting others down."

I suppose that would be considered 'Passing over the Passover."

Assistant Deacon said...

Bad PK makes interesting points, except...

...in this day and age of the Internet and SEO, there are no doubt people who discover these posts and comments who do not have a COG background, and who may be wondering about the RCG and this Dave Pack fellow -- or about Flurry and all the others -- and who come upon the Banned! blog.

Hopefully, from a visit or two here, and a reading of the horrors many experienced before them, they'll be persuaded to think twice.

Granted, obsessing over it all is a pointless waste of time. On the other hand, it can be therapeutic to write a comment and let out some of what has simmered under the surface for many years.

To each his own, I'd say.

Head Usher said...

Bad PK wrote:

"Since this is Satan's world and he's not a part of it, he must therefore be Godly and thus he must be doing God's work."

Ditto everything Assistant Deacon said. Naturally, I assumed that "PK" stood for "Preacher's Kid". That's what it stands for in COGdom.

In the first place, who says RCG isn't part of "this world". I say the entire thing, including HWA, Radio COG, WCG, and the whole lot of splinters have always been a part of "this world". That "not being part of 'this world'" thing was one of the big, underlying myths that all of the other lies, myths, and distortions were built upon. As for whether Satan has got anything to do with it or not, I suppose that depends on whether you think that all evil is centrally manufactured and distributed, or otherwise.

For those of us who have tasted "God's True Church" and have chosen "Satan's World" instead, we are here to provide a public service to all our "Satanic" brothers and sisters to beware of the unhealthy soup that is "God's True Church" along with all of God's self-appointed apostles and prophets. Catharsis is good for the soul, and if it can spare others from needing catharsis later on, it can be good for the souls of others as well.

It's all one big world, silly people. But some bits of that world are lakes of fire. Those would be the "True Churches". There are nicer places to go swimming.

Velvet said...

" Hey Velvet, do I detect a touch of the David Pack’s here from yourself – i.e. return to the Worldwide Church of God, or you are in the Third Resurrection?"

LOL NO. Not what I intended to put across, Questeruk; my point is, that it seems to me, with the Packatollah's false prophesying (let us not forget the "Clarion Call" sermon of 2008), if Pack isn't a good candidate for the Third Rez, I don't know WHO is.

As for returning to the Church, that's just my own path. Not saying it's right for anyone else (nor that it's easy), and I did NOT mean to imply those who didn't in this life, won't get a second chance (I believe they will).

So, anything I stated, or state here, applies only to me, your mileage may vary, I could be wrong.

I mean, yes, I could be wrong. But from where I'm sitting, Pack seems like a real tool. And I don't mean that as a compliment.....

Anonymous said...

My Comment:
In going through the original post in this thread I find myself wondering what happened that we have this type of erratic, delusional, narcissistic nonsense put into a written format.

Then I look at the world of TV and Internet activity along with some of the postings of CGI and other COG communication efforts it appears to be normal for present day communication.

CGI stresses the “Surprising God” implying that Jesus is an ever changing god so we are to expect to see all of these adaption’s to the worldwide community.

I personally find the God I believe exists as being stable and dependable. The only changes I have experienced have been due to a greater insight in the value of life in the flesh as a means for learning the importance of the unchanging characteristics that define this God.

What I am working on now is how to handle all surprises that other people seem to believe about God.

Douglas Becker said...

Fine.

We'll all go to a mountain somewhere. We can bring the firewood, stones to build the altar, 50 barrels of water and a bull for sacrifice.

Davey, after the sacrifice is thoroughly soaked, you may pray to your god and call down fire from heaven to burn the sacrifice. You are welcome to call god on your cell phone. I'm sure he's in the coverage area. No doubt he'll do it just for you.

Or maybe not.

And you won't have until evening. It needs to be done by 2 PM. It will be lunch time. We will be hungry.

If you don't respond and aren't able to call fire down from heaven, we aren't going to pay any attention to one word you say, except to mock you.

Be warned.

You may want to bring whips to beat yourself into a bloody pulp, in case your god has gone on a trip or is on vacation... or turned off his phone.

Give us proof.

We don't want any of this "trust me" business.

We've had way too much of that.

Leonardo said...

Quite predictably, Dave Pack's latest expression of delusional narcissism comes complete with all the usual gruesome threats of punishment which characterize delivery of all the latest presumed messages from the Almighty.

Or course, it’s nothing new. Here’s a sample of HWA’s approach from a co-worker letter dated December 8th, 1947 (over 65 years ago now):

“…TIME is running out! This world is moving swiftly to its destruction! Yet there is still time---and just barely enough time---to finish the work of God for this present age. THERE IS NO TIME TO LOSE. But the work of God is progressing on schedule…Yes, this world is being hurled rapidly TOWARD UTTER DESTRUCTION---we approach the END OF THE WORLD…THE OUTLOOK, at the moment, is for six or seven more years of PROSPERITY here in America---(even though it is an artificial, unsound and inflated "prosperity")---while meantime the world moves relentlessly toward WORLD WAR III and final DESTRUCTION! YOU, dear Co-Worker, are not going to be permitted to enjoy your home, your freedom, your present privileges and pursuits, many more years. Just a few more years---perhaps six or seven---perhaps twelve or fifteen---and a re-united Fascist-Nazi Europe will STRIKE---America's great cities will be blown out of existence in one night without warning---we shall see such tremendous atomic destruction as the world has never even dreamed ---more than 40 MILLION Americans will perish in the horrifying blasts! At the same time drought and famine will strike dead another THIRD of our entire population---men, women, and children---thru starvation and disease!”

Or how about this sample from October 29, 1967:
“Co-Workers—Brethren in Christ—WE ARE ON THE FINAL "GUN-LAP." The "chips are down!" We must give this great work a mighty additional PUSH! The time is short—and it is VITAL. IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN OUR LIVES RIGHT NOW! Soon our money will not help us!
And here we are in 2013 – six and a half decades later – still waiting! So it seems Pack has learned well from HWA’s style of “terror journalism.”

But also note that many of the comments in this thread include their own dogmatic pronouncements of gloom and doom - for instance, that Dave Pack is a prime candidate for the dreaded 3rd resurrection, etc.

It's hard not to noticed how fundamentalists of all brands and persuasions - who continually prattle on about the "God of love" and "the way of peace" - just can't seem to make any kind of comment without including (in one form or another) the standard threat of dreadful punishment to come if readers don't get in line and agree with their particular brand of supernatural theology.

To me this clearly reveals some of the REAL underlying motives that actually animates such folks - not one of genuine care and concern toward their fellow human beings (love, peace, joy, patience, kindness, gentleness), but instead a screeching attitude of "I can't wait until all these unbelievers and false Christians GET THEIRS in...

A) the horrific nightmare that awaits them in the soon-to-come Great Tribulation (belief of most fundamentalist Christian groups)

B) an eternity of non-stop agonizing physical and mental torture in the bubbling cauldrons of hell (traditional mainstream Christian belief)

C) the lake of fire, which will end their miserable existence forever (COG belief)

D) a unique combination of varying elements of all the above.

Really, can't you all just FEEL THE LOVE in these threats of pain and torture that almost always seem to pop up whenever Christians opine on their various religious assertions when it comes to the fate of those who simply don't agree with them?

Anonymous said...

If anyone listens to Davey Boy and has their ears ringing or shortness of breath, they'd best see a doctor.

(It would be a medical condition and nothing to do with Davey Boy.)

-Norm

Anonymous said...

There are only two types of PKs (preacher's kids). I'm the other kind...

Bad PK

Anonymous said...

Agreed! Any need to point out my obvious hypocritical post about not posting? Thanks for pulling that punch.

Bad PK

Joe Moeller said...

Sung by the great Dusty Springfield in Sept. 1968

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

"Son Of A Preacher Man"

Billy-Ray was a preacher's son
And when his daddy would visit he'd come along
When they gathered round and started talkin'
That's when Billy would take me walkin'
A-through the backyard we'd go walkin'
Then he'd look into my eyes
Lord knows to my surprise

The only one who could ever reach me
Was the son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man
Yes he was, he was
Ooh, yes he was

Being good isn't always easy
No matter how hard I try
When he started sweet-talkin' to me
He'd come and tell me everything is all right
He'd kiss and tell me everything is all right
Can I get away again tonight?

The only one who could ever reach me
Was the son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man
Yes he was, he was
(Ooh...) Lord knows he was
Yes he was

How well I remember
The look that was in his eyes
Stealin' kisses from me on the sly
Takin' time to make time
Tellin' me that he's all mine
Learnin' from each other's knowing
Lookin' to see how much we've grown

And the only one who could ever reach me
Was the son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man
Yes he was, he was
Ooh, yes he was

The only one who could ever reach me
He was the sweet-talking son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
I kissed the son of a preacher man
The only one who could ever move me
The sweet-lovin' son of a preacher man
The only one who could ever groove me
Ahh, ooh, ahh....

James said...

More penis wagging from the false apostle. He's full of shit!

Velvet said...

So, Leo, where do I fit, in your neatly-delineated categories? Because I neither believe, nor look forward to, any of the options you've stated; I am more inclined to think that almost everyone will get a chance in the Second Rez; which is why it is paramount that we be non-judgemental of anyone in this life.

Yes, I realize this is the opposite to what the Church used to teach; it was our bad attitudes (I include myself because I was really self-righteous when I was a kid) and the wrong perspective (time is short/the end is nigh etc.) that led to the changes and the chaos that hit in 1994.

Anonymous said...

"...there is NO human government on earth that has been appointed by God over His Church. (By which I am referring to the Worldwide Church of God, which has NOT lost its true name, contrary to Junior's shenanigans in the States. If that's a thing for you, that is; I believe the prophecy that our name will be changed, and the truth -- parts of it -- given to strangers, has been fulfilled, by Junior's actions in 2008.)"

Sooo, what I hear you saying is, you literally believe that:
A) GCI = WCG = god almighty's one and only true church/cult
B) Words written in the bible thousands of years ago were inspired by this almighty god by which god was referring specifically to the CGI/WCG organization and to Joe Tkach Jr. individually.

If I have properly understood you, Velvet, then you are kookier than I thought!

Anonymous said...

"There are only two types of PKs (preacher's kids). I'm the other kind...

Bad PK

I always thought there was only one kind of PK, the bad kind.

Questeruk said...

Leonardo, I too would like to put it on record that I serious doubt if ANYONE in this age would be condemned to any ‘third resurrection’. I have never, and would never, suggest any such thing.

In this era there is too much room for doubt and uncertainty for a loving God to condemn a person to such a fate.

The way that many in the various COGs have conducted themselves only adds to the uncertainty in the minds of those prepared to look with an open mind at the issues.

Velvet, remembering discussions we have had in the past, I did strongly suspected that we are now like minded on this particular issue. My previous comment was really to verify that was the case, which you have confirmed.

Anonymous said...

Genetic research has shown that Dave Pack is related to all other windbags through his mitochondrial DNA (he has no Y chromosome).

Anonymous said...

"Quite predictably ... [predictable blather]... "

Whatever you say windbag.

Leonardo said...

Questeruk, because I dismiss the many conflicting and unprovable claims put forth by supernatural religions, tend to be quite critical of fundamentalist Christianity in general, and of the COG version of it in particular, many would be quick to assign me to resurrection number 3. They are forced by circumstances to use that or similar threats because their views cannot be demonstrated factually or logically – and the more intellectually honest among them know it. That’s why religious views have to inevitably be forced upon people by threat of pain or death whenever their promoters have been granted the political/legal power to do so. It’s the only way they can.

But I agree with you in general - uncertainty and confusion abounds in this area, even though so many traditionally religious folks WISH to claim certainty for their beliefs.

My personal view (for what it's worth) is that IF there ultimately turns out to be some kind of Creator or SuperMind behind reality and all the known universe (or however else we could verbally describe such a being using the English language) I'm about 99% certain it will NOT end up being the petty, all-too-human, parochial gods that mankind has proposed of down through history, including the god of the Bible - just far too many contradictions and inconsistencies there for my mind I'm afraid.

Leonardo said...

Now Anon 5:52, you've disappointed me! Just when I thought you were starting to achieve a bit more clarity (in virtue of your recent 21 word comment) now you regress back to your standard 4-word insults. My, my, you just can't seem to learn that hurling simplistic playground accusations over and over and over again just won't get you all that far in the real world of human interaction.

May I suggest reading to deepen your thoughts and expand your extremely limited vocabulary? But something that will challenge you and stretch your current level of verbal expression, but not too far at first. Perhaps a Dick & Jane primary school reader might be a good start.

As I mentioned to you on another thread: No wonder American business is having to spend 8 BILLION dollars a year teaching their college grad new-hires remedial English, so they can learn how to write an intelligible sentence, or paragraph, or post, or email that actually carries MEANING to readers!

Anonymous said...

There's a 3-part YouTube video series entitled 'Fallacy of the Third Resurrection' that was uploaded a few years ago from the CCG group. Wade Cox and his wacko birds are clueless on just about everything, but they put a lot of research into this particular subject. Dave and Leo would both, most assuredly, raise objections and take issue with the presentation; so it must contain some value of truth for those with open-minded curiosity.

Leonardo said...

Velvet wrote: "So, Leo, where do I fit, in your neatly-delineated categories?"

Well, in view of some of your previous comments...

"Best you get that in your head, otherwise you'll be walking a short plank yourself, come the Third Resurrection."

"...with the Packatollah's false prophesying (let us not forget the "Clarion Call" sermon of 2008), if Pack isn't a good candidate for the Third Rez, I don't know WHO is."

...it would seem perhaps category C (the lake of fire) might seem to fit best.

Leonardo said...

Anonymous 6:38 wrote: "There's a 3-part YouTube video series entitled 'Fallacy of the Third Resurrection' that was uploaded a few years ago from the CCG group. Wade Cox and his wacko birds are clueless on just about everything, but they put a lot of research into this particular subject. Dave and Leo would both, most assuredly, raise objections and take issue with the presentation; so it must contain some value of truth for those with open-minded curiosity."

Why exactly do you think I would take issue with the content of the videos? I've always been curious and open-minded, but the fact that you characterize the makers of this 3-part video series in the following way doesn't exactly inspire confidence: "Wade Cox and his wacko birds are clueless on just about everything..."

You know, in the past I've been very willing to spend the time going through many such videos and/or website papers, etc. But quite honestly, the results have been that about nine times out of ten I find them even more loonier and poorly reasoned than the doctrine they supposedly are trying to dispute.

But as far as the COG doctrine of the third resurrection, I had a WCG minister once openly admit to me that of all the doctrines of the old WCG, that's the one he had the hardest time understanding and explaining to people, as it requires one to jump all over the Bible cherry-picking numerous passages in order to make it come out the way HWA understood it.

Anonymous said...

I wish that were true. Then I wouldn't be such a disappointment to my family. I guess it depends on your definition of "bad" - to be rebellious or perpetuate a lie... Maybe I was the good kind?

(Debatably) Bad PK

Leonardo said...

Well, PK, it is interesting, isn't it, that of all the "bad" people, as well as all the "bad" things being done during the time of the ministry of Jesus of Nazareth, the ones who received the harshest, most severe and most public verbal castigations were the highly religious, extremely judgmental, self-righteous Pharisees - and NOT the hookers, tax collectors, swindlers, political fanatics and many others who most folks would so easily have labeled as bad.

Like I always say, ultimate reality may turn out far different than expected, perhaps most especially for those who arrogantly presume to have all the answers with respect to God, morality, etc.

Just something to think about.

Retired Prof said...

Leonardo, you say one minister had trouble defending the idea of the 3rd resurrection because "it requires one to jump all over the Bible cherry-picking numerous passages in order to make it come out the way HWA understood it."

Not only that, it requires one to assume that the lord god almighty has the childish vindictiveness of a young sociopath. An omniscient being would know by the time certain people died that they were not suitable for his long-range purposes, whatever those may be. It would be most efficient just to leave them dead.

Why go through the extra step of waking them up just to kill them again? Sure looks like he gets his kicks out of watching his creatures weep and gnash their teeth as they are being judged and writhe and scream in pain when tossed into the lake of fire.

Leonardo said...

Agreed. To anyone somewhat familiar with ancient Middle Eastern history, and especially the leadership styles and customs of the time, this anthropomorphized view of a Creator is remarkably similar to the typical emotionally unstable and high vindictive tyrants common for the time and geographical location.

King Nebuchadnezzar, for instance: quite easily offended, arrogant to the max, extremely impulsive, and very much into vengeance. Kind of like many Muslims STILL are in modern times, if I may be so bold as to say this in our politically-correct culture!

Several years ago I did a lot of reading on radical Islam, and found out about a scholar named Daniel Pipes, who has written many superb books on the topic. One such book got some Muslim cleric so upset that he wrote out a curse intended for Pipes. It was the standard stuff these fanatics are always proclaiming - something to the effect that "May Allah in all His great holiness burn you alive and enjoy seeing you writhing in the worst possible pains and agonies in the most hideous places of hell, and then may He completely cover your body once again in the flesh and sinew of the most sensitive infant, only to burn it off even more slowly and painfully."

You just gotta admire the real love and tolerance religion can often engender, especially within it's most ardent devotees!

Anonymous said...

I have always believed in 3 different resurrections:

1i st resurrection - those who god likes (pharisees in total denial)

2i nd resurrection - those who god blinded because he doesn't like them very much

3i rd resurrection - those who god blinded a second time because he hates them

The i indicates that all three are imaginary numbers, just like the resurrections.

Douglas Becker said...

Wade Cox and his wacko birds are clueless on just about everything

Now, now, keep up everyone!

In 2005, at least 85% of the feathered friends flew the coop and started their very own God is One God, Assembly of Eloah.

The eschatology is exactly the same, just minus the chief cook and bottle washer: Instead of the leader going out and establishing a new congregation, the congregation went out and established a new leader.

Consensus can be such a lovely thing.

Anonymous said...

Wade Cox is a sicko.

Anonymous said...

"You just gotta admire the real love and tolerance religion can often engender, especially within it's most ardent devotees!"

Yup. It reminds me of the Christians praying for biblical curses and terrible harm to befall Mikey Weinstein of the MRFF and his family.

Velvet said...

"CGI stresses the “Surprising God”"

You mean GCI, I trust? And no, it doesn't really, that's just Ted Johnston's own personal, inane babblings. I mean, yeah, he's on the Internet, so people on these ex-member websites take him as "the public face of the Church" but in all honesty,

Ted Johnston is to GCI what Bob Thiel was to LCG; hardly anyone in the Church, besides the "denominational leadership" and the other, equally disconnected-from-reality bloggers, even knows who Johnston is.

And, yes, "the denominational leadership" spews such garbage as "we are many things to many people" and they teach/preach a tractable God; on the ground, in the congregations however, it's a very different story; the vast majority of the members I've spoken to, still reiterate that God is unchanging.

Mind you, some of us also still consider ourselves to be non-denominational, regardless to what a few far-off (and far out) Americans may say and/or think on the matter.

Velvet said...

"If I have properly understood you, Velvet,"

You have not, Anonymous @ 4:38pm. But, then, I don't have to justify myself to you, or anyone else here in this comments section. And I keep saying repeatedly that I don't see my own current worldview as "the one and only absolute truth" as I believe in progressive revelation. I have also said many many many many many times that I follow NO man or men, etc.

But, yeah, I know I'm in for flack just for participating in these discussions, simply for being true to myself, and where I am being led/called to be. That's fine.

You have painted a very black-and-white caricature of a person you do not know, and have never met, based only on a fraction of what I have said on an Internet message board. The real world, and the people in it, is a much more nuanced place, than a few black-and-white words on the Internet can even hope to suggest. Just my opinion.

Velvet said...

"Velvet, remembering discussions we have had in the past, I did strongly suspected that we are now like minded on this particular issue."

We were like minded on this particular issue in the past as well, Questeruk; I can recall Jeff Miller deleting his blog shortly after I made the remark that at least the Church's stance on same, was better than the "eternal hellfire and damnation" Jeff was preaching. (I was a bitter atheist, by that point, thanks to Jeff.)

Though, at the time, none of us knew Jeff was literally preaching that, because he lied by omission that he was a Baptist hireling, posing first as a non-believer, then posing as a newly- converted professing Christian, to suck other ex-members of the Church in to following the same poisonous path.