Thursday, March 21, 2013

UCG Asks: Do Vampires and Zombies Desensitize us to the Passover Symbols?



Only in Armstrongism can something this appalling and hilarious be written.  Who would have ever dreamed zombies and vampires would be used to discuss Passover.  I never cease to be amazed!

Do Vampires and Zombies Desensitize us to the Passover Symbols?

Have you ever been desensitized to something?  I know I have. It isn't always a bad thing and can relieve a certain level of stress. However, it isn't always a good thing either. Over the years there have been many discussions in the media about the desensitizing of our children due to increasing levels of violence in certain video games.

What about the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ on our behalf? Could we become desensitized to the miracles involved and what they mean for us today? Some of the most popular books, movies, and other entrainment of today focus on zombies and vampires. Think about it for a minute. The resurrection of the dead is a miracle that can only be performed through the will of God. It is the same miracle that allowed our Savior to set up in His tomb and to fold his burial clothes. Yet this miracle plays out as an everyday occurrence in movies and books that focus on zombies. The "undead" as they are called are not shown in a positive way, having been given life again due to a great miracle, but they are shown as a representation of walking death.


Jesus Christ died and shed His blood for our sins. As a symbol of his death and our forgiveness of sin, during the Passover service we drink a small amount of red wine which represents his blood. However, the entertainment industry has made the drinking of blood an everyday occurrence, one that has more to do with death and violence than it does with the forgiveness of sins and life. Does the symbolism get lost in today's popularity of vampires?
There is footnote to the site that UCG does not necessarily monitor postings to the blog.  Apparently not!

Read the entire post here before it is deleted.

At least the author can say the word Jesus and isn't afraid to watch zombie and vampire movies.  I imagine non-ordained Thiel will soon lay down the law to his acolytes that zombies and vampires are NOT permitted in the TRUE Church of God.




 

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

OMG!!!!!! Just when I thought I had seen and heard all in the cult along comes this. I am shocked. I mean, WTF???????????????????

Head Usher said...

LOL. Jesus died and came back as a zombie seeking whose brains he could devour for 40 days and 40 nights.

Much worse than any zombie flick, the christianity virus unleashed upon the population has now infected 2.1 billion, nearly a third of the human race! Unfortunately, the christianity virus is merely a mutation of other even older religious viruses. Altogether, the walking religious form nearly the entire population! Thankfully it doesn't affect everyone to the same degree. Some get it much worse than others. Nevermind any fictional zombie apocalypse, we should be much more concerned about the real one!

Thankfully there is a cure. I used to be among the teeming masses of slobbering, droning zombies. Because of that cure, I have been completely desensitized to the passover symbols.

Anonymous said...

Cults are cults so what does one expect from them? Certainly not a true Christian way of life that's for sure. If anything they are synagogues of Satan.

Anonymous said...

Right.

So the drinking of blood should remain special, and very very sensitive indeed. We wouldn't want to miss a moment of savoring such a behavior.

Anonymous said...

Do idiot UCG ministers writing silly articles desensitize us to Christ?

The spiritual maturity of the authors of several UCG position papers needs to be evaluated.



DennisCDiehl said...

The Gospel of "Matthew" promotes zombies and speaks highly of them!

Matthew 27:45-53

Read all about it! :)

http://ezinearticles.com/?Help,-Ive-Died-and-I-Cant-Get-Up--An-Easter-Tale-Known-and-Told-Only-By-Matthew&id=169979

Anonymous said...

What do you expect from a group that does not know who Jesus was.

Anonymous said...

The picture of the zombies could look exactly like the "Saints" who rose after Jesus resurrection, might look coming into town! lol

Anonymous said...

Hey...Matthew DOES promote Zombies! Who knew! Perhaps a UCG sermon on how Matthew may be desensitizing us on all things resurrectional???

M.T.Graves

Douglas Becker said...

Not unless you count Herbert Armstrong and, now, Dennis Luker.

Joe Moeller said...

I dont get the whole zombie , vampire , goth scene stuff at all.

It seems a little kinky and weird and I thought it had died out with bad "B" movies in the 1950s.

There is now a resurgence and I am miffed to understand why. Anyone care to explain to me why there is a fascination with this "dark" culture. The story lines of such are also depressing and negative.

Luv,
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Anonymous said...

"Anyone care to explain to me why there is a fascination with this "dark" culture."

At least they don't believe that zombies and vampires are real and feel the need to worship them. Like in Christianity.

Paul Ray

Steve Kisack said...

Joe Moeller said...
I dont get the whole zombie , vampire , goth scene stuff at all.

It seems a little kinky and weird and I thought it had died out with bad "B" movies in the 1950s.

There is now a resurgence and I am miffed to understand why. Anyone care to explain to me why there is a fascination with this "dark" culture. The story lines of such are also depressing and negative.

MY COMMENT: Typical UCGer attitude. Try to change the subject and get the light off of your illustrious leaders.

Anonymous said...

Y.E.S. lessons and Basil Wolverton desensitized me to horrific depictions of mass murder long before any video games had a chance to do so.

Joe Moeller said...

Steve Kissass above wrote:
Typical UCGer attitude. Try to change the subject and get the light off of your illustrious leaders.

MY RESPONSE:
This thread here was based on a blogpost by a "Sherry Giddens." on the UCG blog. UCG allows for people to post their opinions and articles, and allows for comments on them as well. This is unique in the COG world, and is a praiseworthy and progressive concept, especially relative to our history. People are given a voice at all levels.

The article did not originate with "illustrious leaders" as Steve Kissass implies. In fact, there is a disclaimer on the site, immediately below the article...

"Blog posts do not undergo review by the doctrinal review team of the United Church of God. This post represents the personal opinion of the author and should not be considered the official stance of the United Church of God".

So cowboy, do a little homework before you open your trap and spew your drivel. This has nothing to do with "illustrious leaders" and is written by Sherrie Giddens, a grandma from St. Louis.

http://www.ucg.org/author/sherrie-giddens/
Sherrie Giddens

Sherrie, a mother of three grown children, is interested in Christian and family-oriented topics. She and her husband attend services with the United Church of God in the St. Louis, Missouri, area. As a second-generation Christian she shares a deep interest in passing the truth about God and His Kingdom on to the next generation.

I also give further kudos to UCG in publishing articles by women, holding womens conferences and roundtables. Women serve on local church councils as well.

I feel that Sherry Giddens makes valid points to anyone who is a believer.

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Steve Kisack said...

Joe Moeller said...
Steve Kissass above wrote:
Typical UCGer attitude. Try to change the subject and get the light off of your illustrious leaders.

The article did not originate with "illustrious leaders" as Steve Kissass implies. So cowboy, do a little homework before you open your trap and spew your drivel.

MY COMMENT: OooooH! It looks like I touched a sensitive nerve. Maybe you need to desensitize, cowboy. What vitriol from a "believer".

Velvet said...

"Who would have ever dreamed zombies and vampires would be used to discuss Passover?"

Where to begin? First of all, she's talking about video games their kids shouldn't be playing in the first place.

The second issue is, the wine at the Passover service is NOT supposed to "symbolize blood" -- yet another Protestant error/compromise cooked up by the Council of Evil? It symbolizes the New Covenant, YES, but not actual blood.

"At least the author can say the word Jesus"

You know, I am getting really tired of this from you, Gary; we ABSOLUTELY said Jesus in the Church when I was growing up; and Armstrong preached Jesus 100% all the way from the 1930s up until his death.

The thing you can't (or don't want to) grasp is why there are some Christians who go further than just blessing Jesus with their lips, and profaning Him with their hearts...by being hearers of His words, but not doers of them.

But, that is the same completely false criticism that professing Christians have always thrown at us, and will continue to throw at us, until the Second Coming.

Plus, the Evangelicals in the Church who spew the same falsehood at me, would have entirely too much to lose, if they admitted I am a Christian; that would be beyond the pale for you too, wouldn't it, Gary?

Anonymous said...

Joe, you'll find Steve tends to have the responses and depth of an eleven year old at times.

Anonymous said...

she needs a proofreader!

Steve Kisack said...

Anonymous said...
Joe, you'll find Steve tends to have the responses and depth of an eleven year old at times.

MY COMMENT: La, la, la! Are you smarter than a fifth grader? Doh! Is Joe's vitriol apropos for a "believer", or not? Just asking. And, you're defending him...why?

Retired Prof said...

Velvet, look closely at Luke 22:19-20:

19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.


Also cast your eye over 1 Corinthians 11:24-26:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.


Now it is true that the text says "this cup is the new testament in in my blood," not "the wine in this cup is my blood." However, notice that the statement about blood is paired with the one about the bread: "This is my body which is given for you." That parallelism signifies to any reader who knows anything at all about metaphor the equivalence "bread is to body as wine is to blood." In other words, the vegetable matter stands for human substances, which symbolize the sacrifice necessary to bring the new testament [i.e. covenant] into fruition.

I ays this not as a believer but as a person literate in English and as a long-time lover of literary figures of speech.

Retired Prof said...

Also, "ays," the second collection of letters in my last sentence, symbolizes the word "say."

Head Usher said...

Just a thought...

I think everyone here would benefit if we kept our comments focused on the issues instead of each other.

Corky said...

Oh no, Jesus didn't come back as a zombie - he came back as one of the "Walking Dead" along with "many of the saints" (Matt. 27:52).

There's a difference - zombies are slaves to the ones who made them zombies. The walking dead are independent non-thinkers.

Corky said...

Okay, so who said that there was "wine" in that cup?

Retired Prof said...

Hey, Corky, you're right! No mention of wine at all. Just a cup of testament.

Me, I'm not so fond of testament. I'm getting ready to pry the lid off a bottle of praise.

Anonymous said...

Holy Shit!

No2HWA: I am impressed with your prolific output.

The most fun part of this blog, however, is pissing on Leo'tard's pompous crap.

Anonymous said...

@Joe Moeller: UCG allows its members to have opinions? Even if they are lowly women? Very progressive, indeed. Sounds like you've found a winner of an organization, a church that almost allows you the same freedom of speech as your country.

Bad PK

Anonymous said...

Zombies always bring the worst potluck dishes. That's probably the real reason she is so against their membership.

Bad PK

Anonymous said...

Head Ushers aren't supposed to think, they just bring the Hymnals and berate children.

Bad PK

Anonymous said...

At least you know her husband didn't help her...

Bad PK

Leonardo said...

Anon 7:56 wrote: "The most fun part of this blog, however, is pissing on Leo'tard's pompous crap."

Which, of course, any simplistic moron can do - as you have repeatedly and amply demonstrated with every post you make. Though I must admit I like your analogy, Anon, for urine is about the best descriptor of what issues forth from your 3rd grade intellect, and your even less impressive style of expressing it.

However, to cogently respond to what I or anybody else writes here with any semblance of intelligence, or to present effective and thought-provoking counter-arguments that actually are comprehensible to the rest of us, now that would be a whole different ballgame, but one I'm afraid would require a level of thought, reflection, civility and mastery of the English language which you obviously haven't attained yet.

So good luck relieving yourself, Anon, you've shown us that you can at least do something with a modest degree of competence.

Anonymous said...


Holy shit!

Plasma dude = Bad PK

Corky said...

Mar 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

So the question is, do immortal gods drink wine? Another question is, why?

Leonardo said...

Plasma Dude 11:37, I though that might have been you lurking behind those profoundly vacuous tweets! Your style is, well, recognizable - though quite unremarkable, because it mimics 99% of all the other tattoo-covered, illiterate dudes out there on the Internet armed with only a keypad and a shallow intellect. But defecated feces set apart for a special purpose??? About the only thing I can immediately think of that this describes would be the intellectual content of your puerile comments. I mean, really, can't you write about anything more interesting than urine and feces? What's next? - poorly expressed tweets about vomit, pus, scabs or mucous?!

You truly are a wonder to behold, Plas! Good luck in the burger flipping biz.

Steve Kisack said...

Corky said...
Mar 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

So the question is, do immortal gods drink wine? Another question is, why?

MY COMMENT: Hey, he made it. Why can't he drink it? :-) If I was a god, I'd be drinking really good margaritas. It's hard to find a good margarita in this universe.

Steve Kisack said...

Leonardo said...
Plasma Dude 11:37, I though that might have been you lurking behind those profoundly vacuous tweets! Your style is, well, recognizable - though quite unremarkable, because it mimics 99% of all the other tattoo-covered, illiterate dudes out there on the Internet armed with only a keypad and a shallow intellect. But defecated feces set apart for a special purpose??? About the only thing I can immediately think of that this describes would be the intellectual content of your puerile comments. I mean, really, can't you write about anything more interesting than urine and feces? What's next? - poorly expressed tweets about vomit, pus, scabs or mucous?!

You truly are a wonder to behold, Plas! Good luck in the burger flipping biz.

MY COMMENT: At first, you impressed me, Leonardo. Now I realize you're just one of us little peole.

Steve Kisack said...

"peole", "a people/peon".

Byker Bob said...

Well, I've forgiven HWA/WCG for my childhood, for the lying and manipulative prophecies, and for preventing my understanding of the fullness of God, and the New Covenant. Healing is awesome, and rather than debate such theology as if theirs were actually credible, I'm satisfied with just living life and applying the new understanding I've been given. I've got a lot on my plate, and a very full life just now, and really don't have the time I used to for active debate.

However, even having forgiven, I hope I never become desensitized to the damage Armstrongism and other false religious philosophies can do to our fellow humans. "They" say it will all be cleared up and the tears wiped away in the 2nd Rez, but why not work so that people get to experience blessings and fulfillment in this life, right now today? Real, spirit-filled Christians can't just be cavalier about these thing and flippantly dismiss all those not in their own group.

BB

Leonardo said...

Steve Kisack wrote: "At first, you impressed me, Leonardo. Now I realize you're just one of us little peole"


Oh, I openly acknowledge to being a little person in the wider scope of things. But Steve, that's not the point. The point is that sometimes one must get hard-core and "answer a fool according to his folly" - wouldn't you agree? I mean, I think you'd have to acknowledge that sometimes people leave comments here that are quite unreadable or unintelligible, almost as if it was a chimp randomly pounding at the keyboard on the other side that happened to hit the "send" button. I'm just trying to do my little bit to encourage the dude tweeters who often post at a 2nd-grade writing level - and sometimes even seem proud of it - to raise up their rhetoric a notch or two. I do believe they can if they want to, then all will benefit, themselves most of all. We may not always agree with what they say, but at a bare minimum we can at least understand what it is they're attempting to communicate. That's all I'm saying.

American business now has to spend over 8 BILLION dollars a year teaching college grad new hires how to write legible sentences in the English language, that's how bad the problem is getting. And my advice is FREE!

Anonymous said...

Sure the gods like to drink wine, they also like meat -- you know burnt offerings. They probably crisped it up to perfection for the gods appetite. Just keep them away from young virgins.

Leonardo said...

As has been pointed out many times before, invisible deities - especially those arising out of Middle Eastern/Mediterranean culture - are terribly similar to human beings in terms of tendencies, tastes and temperaments.

Now, what might this possibly tell us as to their actual origins?

Velvet said...

"Now it is true that the text says 'this cup is the new testament in in my blood,' not 'the wine in this cup is my blood.'"

And that, Retired Prof, is not what the author of the UCG article had to say.

"However, notice that the statement about blood is paired with the one about the bread: "This is my body which is given for you." That parallelism signifies to any reader who knows anything at all about metaphor the equivalence "bread is to body as wine is to blood."

But when you compare it with Jesus urging His disciples "not to have the leaven of the Pharisees" (not physical leaven) and the whole "I am the bread of life" exchange, where some, again, misunderstood that He meant the bread for His physical body...the key point being, many who believed that, went away, and didn't follow him anymore.

"In other words, the vegetable matter stands for human substances, which symbolize the sacrifice necessary to bring the new testament [i.e. covenant] into fruition."

No. See my comments (And the relevant Biblical verses --- I think they are in John somewhere? I don't have time to look them up at the moment, sorry.) above. Anyone who does believe the matzos and wine at the Passover service are actual flesh and blood, or even "symbols" of actual flesh and blood, have turned away from Jesus, and are not following Him anymore.

The only thing the Passover in the Church was meant to symbolize was a memorial of the final supper Jesus and His disciples ate, before His sacrifice as the Passover for the sins of the whole world.

Thus, Paul's injunction "not to take the Passover unworthily" -- and if they are making the same mistake the disciples did when Jesus told them He "was the bread of life" then they most assuredly are taking it unworthily. In my opinion.

Velvet said...

"Hey, Corky, you're right! No mention of wine at all. Just a cup of testament."

...which reinforces my point, incidentally. Though I do remember hearing, growing up, that it was important to use wine, and not grape juice "as some churches do." I seem to recall the reasoning was based on the fact that Jesus and the disciples drank wine, and that the Bible nowhere states an injunction against all wine.

Velvet said...

"Real, [trinitarian]spirit-filled Christians can't just be cavalier about these thing and flippantly dismiss all those not in their own group."

But, Bob, that is exactly what all the professing Christians I've ever been unfortunate enough to encounter, do.

And I think the discussion on the charity thread proves that not all members of the Church (though some did) had that attitude. We lived our lives out in the world, Bob, but we were "in the world but not of the world" --- Church members had friends and neighbours and got along with their coworkers and schoolmates and teachers...there was a minority who didn't, but that was more due to other factors, not necessarily the Biblical truth. (Nor even where the Church departed from that Biblical truth.)

Anonymous said...

A question is asked=
"As has been pointed out many times before, invisible deities - especially those arising out of Middle Eastern/Mediterranean culture - are terribly similar to human beings in terms of tendencies, tastes and temperaments.
Now, what might this possibly tell us as to their actual origins?"


My comment=
It's an anthropomorphic god, created in Man's own image, who displays some of Mankind's worst possible characteristics: jealousy, the need to be worshiped as being above all others, vengefulness, being quick to anger, being quick to murder, micromanaging people's lives, warmongering, hating the competition, suffering from dissociative identity disorder, holding a scepter over people's heads, etc, etc, etc.