Monday, April 1, 2013

Dave Pack Sticks It To LCG, UCG, PCG Again



It must be really humiliating to be a leader of one of the larger splinter groups who is constantly being belittled by the greatest Church of God leader to ever walk the green grass of this earth.  Not even Jeremiah walking around Ireland was able to do as mighty a work as Dave Pack is.  Dave has the worlds largest COG web site, reaches billions of people weekly, is building the worlds most important campus,  and is raking in millions of dollars in donations weekly.

Dave breathlessly announces:

NOTICE: This is the SEVENTH in a series of special weekly announcements that appear every Friday. They collectively unveil the massive, ongoing expansion that God’s Church, Work and Headquarters are experiencing. There is a reason for this expansion! The reader should contrast these Friday announcements to the increasing bad news and bad events in UCG, LCG, PCG, COGwa and ALL splinters and slivers of the Worldwide Church of God. You must see what they are NOT announcing, and why they never will—and what GOD is bringing upon them.

(1) We are thrilled to announce a second building on our new Headquarters campus—a 12,000-square-foot Mail Processing Center (MPC). Site work begins next week, with construction quickly to follow. Our tremendous media growth (more is listed below) is causing literature distribution to explode. This requires much more space, equipment and manpower. The new MPC will house the Church’s mailing and in-house print operations, as well as the Landscaping and Construction Departments. This second building is also being built WITHOUT the need for BANK FINANCING! (Incidentally, it is our hope that we can soon announce a third building.)
 

52 comments:

Velvet said...

Do they need 12,000 square feet? I can't see RCG getting anywhere near the same volume of mail the old Mail Processing Centre did.....Especially considering the serious decline in postal mail over the past few years.

Anonymous said...

"Dave ... reaches billions of people weekly ..."

Dave is reaching more people than Google, Yahoo, and Bing combined. And those are all first time listeners!

P.D.

Painful Truth said...

Who won the lottery?

Douglas Becker said...

Do they have restrooms?

Leonardo said...

Velvet wrote: "Do they need 12,000 square feet?"

Yes, they do, because now it's all about which COG guru can urinate the farthest! Crude metaphor, and one perhaps only men who were once little boys growing up in winter conditions can fully appreciate, but I think time will tell it to be an accurate one nonetheless.

And we'll be seeing a LOT more of this as the tithe farmers continue battling over the ever-dwindling supply of members desperate to rebuild the glory days of the WCG.

Just keep watching.

Leonardo said...

In principle we've seen this all before - and I'm about 95% sure that Dave is currently in a hypo-mania state that will eventually lead to a rapid downward spiral when it ends. Then who's going to be left with the huge construction bills when the expected massive exodus from the other splinters don't materialize? Rod Meredith had the same identical delusion back when the WCG collapsed, and when the membership didn't all come rushing to him as the obvious leader God was using to continue "The Work" it set the stage for all kinds of money issues that culminated in the collapse of Global in the late '90's.

Do these guys ever learn anything?

Anonymous said...

Don't forget to erect a wrought Iron Flurryite Gate, Pack'tard. Then, let the gods decide who is the mightiest douchebag leader in all COGdom.

Anonymous said...

I'd imagine you could save a boatload of money by writing your authoratative little booklets that would be scorned by most theologians and then send it over to someone else's already there press to distribute. No building, no employees, no pay, no insurance, no nuttin' But then I guess you can't give a tour of it if it's not yours.

M.T.Wallet

Corky said...

Oh yeah, gotta build some buildings, spend that money they don't have yet.

Byker Bob said...

This is a dinosaur before it is ever completed. A subset of the graphic arts industry which I serve
is the mailing industry. Any of the remaining bulk mailers who dump their mail at the US Postal Service processing centers will be forced to listen to postal workers describe how their jobs are slowly shrinking away. Workers who retire or transition into other industries are not being replaced, and once again there is talk of cutting back on Saturday delivery.

Hard copy of magazines and newspapers have given way to e-publications. Because of digital printing, there are many new, small run vanity publications, but these are highly specialized.

It would be interesting to see what equipment Dave is aquiring for his printing operation. The glory days of the big web offset presses has succumbed to copier based digital presses such as the Xerox IGEN, HP Indigo, and medium duty presses such as Ricoh, Konica Minolta, and Canon. You also won't find huge McCain and Mueller Martini stitchers purchased in numbers any more. Smaller, high speed digital bookletmakers with intelligence features are the favored way of binding magazines.

Frankly, many of the copier companies offer facilities management contracts, in which trained minimum wage employees do all of the graphic arts jobs at extremely manageable costs to the corporation.

The fact that RCG is going to need a buildings and grounds department to manicure their lawns and shrubs is yet another anachronism from the HWA era. Professional landscape companies will keep a campus immaculate for a fraction of the costs the in house employees could do the same jobs.

This "stuff" Dave is so excited about sounds really impressive to people who don't keep up on what is going on in the fields which HWA utilized so effectively back in the 1960s when Dave and his brother and cousin attended AC. Most large church groups are up to date on contemporary methods, and very careful about good stewardship in effectively using the tithes and donations which come their way. I almost slipped and typed "with which they are blessed", but their is no blessing about the type of tithe extortion practiced in the ACOGs.

Things we once looked up to have lost their lustre over the years, like the value of a white elephant auditorium which ended up being strictly noncommercial, and unviable for anything other than an HWA vanity item.

BB

Anonymous said...

One of the major problems within the COG is, they have far too many Moses wannabes, but no Korah rebellious personality types.

Leonardo said...

Byker Bob, all I can say is a loud and lusty "AMEN!" to your above comment - very well expressed.

I used to work in the Publishing and Digital Imaging areas of the WCG as a graphic artist, and what you say about the technological innovations and how they've revolutionized how things are now done in the 21st century is absolutely right on the money. That's why I left the field after leaving HQ in 1995, because I knew there was absolutely no viable future in it.

Dave is living on yesterday's glories and paradigms in order to attract gullible long-time members to his group. That's all.

This stuff is truly astonishing beyond belief. That's why I think when the mania ends at the hard wall of reality, who's going to be there to pick up the pieces?

Anonymous said...

'In-House Campus Landscape Maintenance'

PCG's Wayne Turgeon has been riding that gravy train for years.

It pays very well, if you're the heir apparent son-in-law.

Painful Truth said...

Leonardo wrote:
"This stuff is truly astonishing beyond belief. That's why I think when the mania ends at the hard wall of reality, who's going to be there to pick up the pieces?"

The City of Wadsworth, Ohio.

Anonymous said...

Rod Meredith had the same identical delusion back when the WCG collapsed, and when the membership didn't all come rushing to him as the obvious leader God was using to continue "The Work" it set the stage for all kinds of money issues that culminated in the collapse of Global in the late '90's.

Do these guys ever learn anything?


Judging by Meredith's recent begging letters, the answer is "No" -- the collapse of LCG is imminent. Meredith is going to need to find a scapegoat soon, if he hopes to pull off another fast one like he did when he left Global with its debt so he and his followers could start fresh.

Byker Bob said...

Leo,

That's where I learned my licks. I bombed in my AC career, possibly because I was a rebel type, and that, probably because my interests were always technical. One of my neighbors who was in the church and worked in the bindery saw me working on my car, and thought I'd be a good machine operator. The opportunity that was created as a result of that has lasted my entire career. I worked at AC Press until it was sold to the W.A. Krueger Co., in 1976. By that time, I could fix just about every machine in our system, and got hired by a company which specialized in the sale and service of such equipment. A string of opportunities was built from that point on, and all I can say is, what an awesome and challenging career!

BB

BB

Velvet said...

"One of the major problems within the COG is, they have far too many Moses wannabes, but no Korah rebellious personality types."

No Korahs at the top of the heap, but "leadership" seems to kow-tow to whoever whines the loudest, amongst the members. The ministers are the ones that are really oppressed (forced to tithe, overworked and underpaid, most working in the ministry long past retirement age), and the only ministers who escape are the ones who brown-nose and/or spout the right "theological platitudes" (or sound like they can). Or, they're brainwashed enough that they believe all the heresies anyway. So, no help there, either. And the membership is far too small and, in some cases, far too divided, to present a united front against Junior and the trinitarians.

You're right about the Moses wannabes, though; the Church even has one of the Evangelicals playing one for the "faithful" in the UK. (In the meantime, "teaching" the faithful stuff the Church never taught at all, i.e., salvation by works alone, you must judge the others around you in this world right now -- they're basically trying to alienate these people even further from the rest of the membership, and instill a false gospel under the guise of it being the true gospel, into peoples' minds.)

I personally think what the Church needs is "a type of Ezekiel" but, probably never going to happen in my lifetime.

Head Usher said...

P.D. wrote:

"And those are all first time listeners!"

They have to be. Nobody wants to tune in again after the first time!

Anonymous said...

In the beginning, Flurry made the same boast of "no bank financing" for his gazillion dollar mini-me project. Time will tell who's final debt was greatest.

Go for the gusto, Pack.

Leonardo said...

Byker Bob wrote: "I worked at AC Press until it was sold to the W.A. Krueger Co., in 1976."

During my first semester at AC (spring of 1976) I worked as a lowly custodian in the Publishing building there on DeLacey. I was the skinny kid bored out of his mind swabbing out the toilets and emptying the waste paper baskets!

Did you know Ray Wright, Roger Lippross, Barry Gridley, Tommy Adams, Earl Sixt, Larry Torno, Larry Miller, Don Patrick, Violet Moon, Ron Taylor, Dale Machi, etc. Many years later in 1990, I ended up working in the same building with all these fellows. The Publishing building, the data processing/accounting building and the shipping & receiving area is all torn down now. Nothing but level dirt ground.

Perhaps we may have met or at least seen each other in passing in early 1976, and here we are all these decades later blogging across the internet?

Leonardo said...

Anonymous 6:00 wrote: "PCG's Wayne Turgeon has been riding that gravy train for years."

I knew Wayne back at AC in 1976. Always seemed to me a rather arrogant, suck-up kind of guy, and destined for the ministry. I guess my initial assessment was right!

Anonymous said...

Douglas Becker wrote:
Do they have restrooms?


That's why they're really, really hoping for the third building.

Secular Humanist Buddhist said...

I am changing my name here to better represent myself. Last night I watched "Escape from Sobibor," a very good1987 movie about a group of prisoners who planned and carried out an escape from a Nazi death camp. Now I know it is a gross exaggeration but I keep having a recurring thought as I research the WCOG and it's splinter groups. I've thought of it even before watching the movie last night. The WCOG reminds me of Nazi German, with a an authoritarian, brutal dictator at the top, various henchmen around him, "Good Germans" carrying out his wars and other atrocities, lots of people completely duped until it was too late. At the bottom of the heap were the totally dependent, helpless prisoners. The children and more vulnerable WCOG members (some emotionally disturbed, some just ignorant) would be the prisoners in this analogy and guess who woould be Hitler. Were any of you who were associated with Ambassador College or in leadership positions "Good Germans" or silent bystanders?
Secular Humanist Buddhist (formerly GG)

Head Usher said...

Leonardo wrote:
"Yes, they do [need 12,000 square feet], because now it's all about which COG guru can urinate the farthest!"

Which is why Dave Pack is going to need dichondra as a ground covering.

Back at the turn of the 20th century when HWA was coming of age, having a lawn of dichondra was a status symbol because it was impossible to maintain. Oh, about 1980, when I'm old enough to be paying attention, the Pasadena campus is still sporting dichondra. The cultural reference is long gone, mind you. Only someone of HWA's generation would even pick up on the message that well-maintained dichondra was supposed to be sending. HWA dies, and Tkach pulls all that dichondra out lickety split because that shit's expensive, and puts in augustine grass instead!

So, the Pasadena campus was a pissing contest too, the only difference being that it's not as apparent to us precisely who HWA was trying to urinate farther than, but with Dave Pack we do. But they're ALL pissing contests.

Anonymous said...

I hope Dave mails out a boatload of printed materials. They would cost a lot of money to print and a lot of money to mail. I don't think his ROI would be good.

Glenn Parker

NO2RCM said...

Anon: "Rod Meredith had the same identical delusion back when the WCG collapsed, and when the membership didn't all come rushing to him as the obvious leader God was using to continue "The Work" it set the stage for all kinds of money issues that culminated in the collapse of Global in the late '90's."
Response:
"Do these guys ever learn anything?
Judging by Meredith's recent begging letters, the answer is "No" -- the collapse of LCG is imminent. Meredith is going to need to find a scapegoat soon, if he hopes to pull off another fast one like he did when he left Global with its debt so he and his followers could start fresh."


Meredith's scapegoat is God! Meredith can't figure out why LCG isn't growing, "We're doing everything we can. If God is not calling people, that's His choice." Of course, Rod, it's not your fault, it's God's fault.
Amazingly, Rod recently celebrated the 20 year anniversary of GCG/LCG. That Rod would claim GCG as his is stunning. Global was a church that he mismanaged, betrayed, rejected, and left saddled with huge debts. Then he started LCG free of burdens, and propagandized hatred for those he left holding the bag in order to draw followers after himself. Then, in LCG, he took God's tithe money to repay debts incurred by his mismanagement in Global. He paid back his personal friends with funds from his new organization and kept it secret from the members. What about the tithe-payers who thought they were supporting the "work of God" when instead Rod was using it to pay off his personal friends? Rod felt a personal obligation to these men. And He used God's tithe to satisfy his personal obligation. Can Rod use God's tithe money in anyway he sees fit? Apparently so.

Retired Prof said...

This is way off the topic of Dave Pack's competition with his Armstrongist erstwhile brethren, but the mention of pissing contests reminds me of a story.

Years ago, the Wisconsin legislature was debating a bill proposing a flood-control dam on the Kickapoo River. I forget what town the dam was supposed to save from inundation.

One gentleman went into a long diatribe against the project. He charged that the Kickapoo was not worth squandering the taxpayers' money on. He said, "It's just a little trickle of a stream, anyway. Why, I could piss halfway across it!"

The speaker pounded the rostrum with the gavel and declared, "You're out of order!"

The legislator said, "Damned right I am! If I wasn't, I could piss ALL the way across it."

So what stream near Wadsworth, OH, would offer a suitable venue to determine whether Dave Pack is out of order or not?

Anonymous said...

No bank financing = no viable credit source(s)!

With today's low rates, you'd have to be retarded not to want a low interest line of credit or a libor-based mortgage.

When this temporary surplus if cash runs out, the bankruptcy won't be far behind. Dave will blame his own members, of course, and most of them will feel guilty that they let their perfect leader down. Some will start a new home-based church and some will join other existing organizations. As much as I hate to admit it, very few will have their eyes opened by this whole experience.

Bad PK

Douglas Becker said...

Leonardo said...
In principle we've seen this all before - and I'm about 95% sure that Dave is currently in a hypo-mania state that will eventually lead to a rapid downward spiral when it ends. Then who's going to be left with the huge construction bills when the expected massive exodus from the other splinters don't materialize?


Leonardo, are you saying that Davey is diseased?

Hmmph!

Good call!

Edifice Complex goes to Edifice Wrecks.

Anonymous said...

Inside sources assure us that Dave's "advisory council" has a 100% record in agreeing with him on all decisions.

Pretty darn nifty!!!

Anonymous said...

"In a multitude of council there is agreement with the boss...or else."

It's in the Bible. No really...don't believe me, believe Dave...

M.T.Advice

Anonymous said...

Is Pack on crack?

Pack lacks slack, Jack!

When will the bank take the property back?

Don't lean over and kiss Pack's crack.

He's totally whack!

He's too much of a pussy to give Dennis flack.

Velvet said...

"No bank financing = no viable credit source(s)!

With today's low rates, you'd have to be retarded not to want a low interest line of credit or a libor-based mortgage."

Buried in the coworkers letter file, which is huge, Armstrong talks about the lines of credit and various banking machineries the Church held, to complete the campus.

Is Pack lying? Because I find it highly implausible that he is bringing in enough tithes and offerings to finance the construction of a 12,000 square foot building, when RCG doesn't have even one eighth of the membership the Church did at its height...when the Church still needed lines of credit and mortgages to get such projects done.

Common sense says the math doesn't add up.

Assistant Deacon said...

"Inside sources assure us that Dave's 'advisory council' has a 100% record in agreeing with him on all decisions."

Hey, he could run North Korea!

L said...

Velvet wrote: "Common sense says the math doesn't add up."


Well, I'm afraid that over the decades the long record of WCG history clearly shows that zealous church leadership, finances and common sense don't mix together all that well, about as much as water, oil and wax would.

That's one of the reasons why there was one long perpetual constant financial "crisis" in the history of the classic WCG. I remember in the late '70's the WCG sold it's Mail Processing Center (MPC) building because they needed the cash. Then HWA (or his advisors) decided to buy the building back for a lot more just a few years later, and started pressing the members to pony up the cash via the Building Fund. Many decisions like this add up after a while, and result in one financial crisis after the other.

Then come the anxious, sensationalistic and overly-exaggerated member/co-worker letters claiming the "Work of God" is in great peril, and that if you don't quickly send in the cash you really aren't on Christ's team, your heart is not "in the Work" etc.

Reading through HWA’s old letters to the co-workers/members is an education. Here's the last few sentences of a co-worker letter from January 1954 - and note the similarities in tone between it and the modern COG gurus:

"Week by week, more and more letters are being received from new listeners from the ABC network, now indicating more than a million listeners every week. Already a few of them are joining you as co-workers. We must hold on, dear co-workers, a few more months and then there will be enough new co-workers to pay the network costs. Again the need is URGENT! It takes money every day and every week, to operate this greatest work on earth. The two or three who sent in large offerings this past month saved the great work of God. If more of you would send in more widow's mites more often, these larger sums would not be so desperately needed---but every dollar---and every thousand dollars ---is a DESPERATE NEED RIGHT NOW! Stand with me, co-workers! Think how God is moving to lead the way for His work. He expects you, as well as me, to do OUR PART, without letting up."

Velvet said...

"That's one of the reasons why there was one long perpetual constant financial "crisis" in the history of the classic WCG. I remember in the late '70's the WCG sold it's Mail Processing Center (MPC) building because they needed the cash. Then HWA (or his advisors) decided to buy the building back for a lot more just a few years later, and started pressing the members to pony up the cash via the Building Fund. Many decisions like this add up after a while, and result in one financial crisis after the other."

Oh, I agree, I should have added the qualifier I wasn't defending Armstrong. (Do I need to keep adding that qualifier? Yes, I suppose I do, because commenters here still have me in a little black-and-white box.)

I can quite clearly remember the year there were special offerings taken up for "the building fund" within WEEKS of each other. Even I had my doubts at that point, and I wasn't that old.

From the sounds of everything that came out of AC (and went on at AC), I think that was one of the unnecessary edifices, erected by a Church that was, ironically, against steeplehouses and church buildings. I think that's why the splinter groups (which are misguided to begin with) are so obsessed with buildings as well; because they've lost (or never had) the focus they should have had. In my opinion.

Junior chortling over "the destruction of the Temple you worshipped ha ha ha!!!" in his Feb. 1 letter was salting the wound, in my opinion. Goes to demonstrate that he is still bitter, though.

Velvet said...

And, if anyone wants to refer to (or wade through) the letters themselves, here is the file.

No, I haven't read through the whole thing, but I dip in occasionally, either to verify that the splinter groups quoting them have changed the wording (they generally have, as well of the booklets and other literature; even PCG that is allegedly "preserving" it has made changes), or to back up references like Leo's.

Leonardo said...

Velvet, I've never heard that splinter groups preserving all of HWA's old letters have directly EDITED them! This would be blatantly WRONG and totally unethical if true. Are there any examples of this? I prefer reading such documents (HWA's letters) from a photo-like scanned version of the real thing, rather than a typed out duplicate or "translated" version - just too much room for error with the latter.

On the other hand, such redaction would not surprise me at all, as accurate, legitimate and OBJECTIVE history doesn't seem that important to most religious folks, but rather only a version of pseudo-history that makes their current truth claims look good.

If this is true, and can be clearly demonstrated to be so, it doesn't speak well for their "love of truth" does it? Especially historical truth.

Also, your link to Joe Jr.'s letter doesn't work - it just says "Not Found Error 404."

Anonymous said...

Someone needs to ask Dave why he forbids members from having copies of some of his more just for the chosen ears. What's the big secret message not for public Gospel consumption?

Velvet said...

Leo,

Well, I can remember someone (the-then PT Editor - not sure if that was James at the time) having me source down an old Church document on makeup that had allegedly been "preserved" and uploaded, but it was missing a single page --- which had a crucial reference to the makeup flip-flopping.

I did a side-by-side comparison on the second hymnal blog (which I deleted, because I was getting trolled pretty heavy by ex-WCG members saying I was crazy...when I wasn't even in the Church at the time) of the BI book from the various splinters, with the original; there are significant differences, and you check the BI book on each of the splinters' websites, as well as the original, found here.

Sorry the link didn't work, I thought I copied it from the address bar. Unless they deleted it, like they did Tammy's blog post bragging about her Mustang, the time I linked to that. Will see if I can resurrect (ha ha) the link.

Velvet said...

Junior's Feb. 1 letter

Velvet said...

You can also compare the splinter groups' booklets to scanned copies of the originals.

Though to be fair, Six-Pack is now pushing his own booklets more than "the Church's original literature" at least on the few Key of David episodes I've managed to channel-surf past. Just imagine, all that time and money in court, and now Flurry isn't even promoting the Church literature they claim to "fight to preserve."

Another good resource (this is where I got the YES manual from) is Friends of the Sabbath. Although their scans of the original booklets and article reprints are not as good as the first link, they do have a lot of Church administration materials, and stuff the ordinary members (like me) never would have seen. You're probably familiar with most of them, though, Leo.

Secular Humanist - Buddhist(?) said...

Never, never never would I give money directly to any church. After reading about Hitler W. Armstrong and his World-weary Church of Godlessness, I feel even more strongly about it. I have donated a dollar here and there to churches in the past but never again! I contribute money directly to a charity or a needy person. In a few cases (Like Prison Dharma Network) the charity may be run by a religious organization but the money goes to help people here on earth now, not in Petra, The World Tomorrow or somewhere else. The last money I gave was for this effort: http://blog.ted.com/2013/04/01/angela-patton-holds-second-father-daughter-dance-in-prison-sets-sights-on-a-documentary/ I was very touched that this group was arranging for little girls to have a "date with dad" in jail just like the other girls were having in the community. The head of the jail seems like a truely good man to understand the need for this. Read the article and watch the video.

Leonardo said...

Velvet, I'm not interested in how splinter group's booklets compare to HWA's - for that would truly be comparing apples and oranges.

I am concerned though that, if I understood you correctly, groups might be editing or otherwise altering HWA's old series of member/co-worker letters, then posting them out on-line. In my eyes at least that would constitute a serious ethical breach of honestly dealing with the historical record, if only of Armstrongism, which will eventually fade away and probably not even occupy a footnote in future history books written on past American religious movements.

But frankly, the claim sounds absurd - for I can't see any possible reason why someone would feel the need to edit them. If they edited out all the parts that come across as the crazed rantings of a religious zealot in order to make them more palatable for a modern audience, then not much would be left of them, if you see what I mean. What would be a reasonable motive for them to do this? And where is the specific actual evidence that it's even been done? These would be my initial questions.

Byker Bob said...

Leo,

Of that list of individuals, the names Earl Sixt and Don Patrick stand out. I didn't know Earl personally, but was aquainted with his daughters. And, I do recall a number of conversations with Don.
I didn't know Ray Wright, but I do recall some kind of event or events that tarnished his reputation, although he seemed to be made of teflon because nothing seemed to stick for very long.

The other names, I'm drawing a blank on. We may well have crossed paths, though, back in the day. It kind of makes you wonder sometimes how many old friends or aquaintances are floating around
out there, oblivious to these blogs and forums.

BB

Leonardo said...

Byker Bob, you'd probably be surprised how many such people DO visit sites such as this one, but they just don't comment or get involved. I keep in either frequent or occasional contact with a number of folks I used to know either at AC or while working in Pasadena. There's a lot of folks who are just weary - tired of religion yet afraid to dare question it's most basic presuppositions.

Knowing how uninquisitive most people are in general, yes, I'd agree with you that many ex-WCGer's probably are oblivious to COG-related blogs and forums like this one, but that might be because they are oblivious to the Internets existence! And I'm not kidding!! Religious folks often aren't very mentally active. Some of this can be attributed to age, of course, but senility isn't a very legitimate excuse for folks younger than me.

Anyway, yes I used to work with Don Patrick in Publishing for many years. We used to have some great laughs together - like the time he jokingly accused me of believing that "Elvis is still alive!" I think we laughed until we almost cried!

Some great folks there at the old Publishing department.

Head Usher said...

Leonardo wrote:
"I can't see any possible reason why someone would feel the need to edit them."

I think you can, which is why you said it would be unethical to do so, namely, as an attempt to rewrite history...

Anonymous said...

Velvet wrote:

"Junior chortling over "the destruction of the Temple you worshipped ha ha ha!!!" in his Feb. 1 letter was salting the wound, in my opinion. Goes to demonstrate that he is still bitter, though."

Velvet, perhaps you linked to the wrong letter. I read Joe Jr.'s letter and didn't see the attitude that you attribute to him.

You sure do see things through a warped lens.

Leonardo said...

Head Usher wrote: "I think you can, which is why you said it would be unethical to do so, namely, as an attempt to rewrite history..."

OK, point duly noted. I do appreciate being called out like this because it just shows the value of being more verbally precise. Of course what I meant was I couldn't see any GOOD or SOUND or CONSTRUCTIVE or HONEST reason to do so. Not that I deny their likely attempt to rewrite history - as Christian thinkers and apologists have tried to do this many times before, and it this has been well documented. Especially in their attempts to debunk evolutionary theory, where they've been clearly caught "quote mining" scientists and making them sound like they've said things twisted beyond all recognition of what they actually did say or write.

But the HWA letter editings may be a moot point because I would need to examine actual evidence of such tampering, which so far hasn't been produced. And I'm sure if it would be worth pursuing even if it was. Dr. Hoeh once taught me that there are some questions simply not worth finding the answers to.

Head Usher said...

Sorry, Leonardo, not really trying to "call you out," just making the implicit that you were already saying explicit. Maybe I didn't phrase it the best way though.

Velvet said...

"I read Joe Jr.'s letter and didn't see the attitude that you attribute to him."

" Nevertheless, I am sure many of us will have a twinge of nostalgia. That building, like the campus, was a part of our lives even if we had never attended Ambassador College. It had served its purpose and it was time for us to move on.

It helps me understand how Jesus’ disciples felt when they went with him to the Temple. They were “country boys” and were overawed by the Temple’s magnificent architecture. “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down” (Matthew 24:2)."


He's drawing a clear connection between the demolition of the old library building, and the prophesied (and fulfilled) destruction of the Second Temple.

"Ambassador College is far from dead. Although no longer in a central location, I wonder if you realize how many of the graduates of the College have taken the idea, and transplanted it around the world.

In Chiang Mai, Thailand for example, there is the Ambassador Bilingual School, founded by graduate Chugait Garmolgomot and his wife Amporn. ABS provides an education from K-12. It has a reputation for being one of the finest schools of its kind in the country and has won several awards for excellence."


This is the rub-it-in-the-faces-of-the-faithful remark, because ALL of those schools teach pagan trinitarianism. Then again, at beginning of the book of Revelation, there's this guy on a white, horse, see.... (Spreading the false gospel of the Antichrist throughout the earth.) He goes on to list other such schools, all preaching the false gospel. Then he ends with this:

"We cannot–and should not–try to preserve the past when it is time to move on. I am thankful for Ambassador’s legacy, which is not made up of buildings, but of “living stones,"

Junior's first sentence is more of the same old, same old, "Get over it!" Although Junior's attitude is, "I'M making six figures off the ministers' backs! Why won't YOU get over it?!?"

Anonymous said...

STEALING credit for what others have written though...is for the praise of men and like a prosecutor of the innocent trying to make a name for themselves ?