Friday, May 3, 2013

Doug Winnail Says: Stop Trying To Find Fault With Us! Then Broadsides Bob Thiel





The poor folk in LCG just never get a break.  They are constantly doing something wrong and getting called on the carpet.  The world is collapsing around them and they keep getting into trouble.

Doug Winnail wants LCG members to stop being so critical of the leadership, in Jim Meredeth's colossal mistakes, in refurbishing office space during the financial crisis, recent disfellowshipments and other major issues.  This is just Satan attacking the LCG and you need not worry about it.

The best part though is when he slaps non-ordained Bob Thiel right across the face with a great broadside:
"Little stay-at-home groups are simply unable to do a work of this magnitude or carry out this God-given mission."
Poor Bob, such an epic failure right out of the starting gate.  Poor little guy!

Doug Winnail writes to the flock today with this:

Loose Bricks or Big Picture? How do you view the Church of God and the Work of God? Many who come into contact with the Living Church of God are excited to learn the Truth of God for the first time. Others are grateful to reconnect with the Truth they once learned from the Scriptures. Yet, from time to time, some, who are actually part of the very Church that is doing this Work, begin to look for loose bricks. They begin to compile lists of what they think are problems in the Church—editorial mistakes, misspoken words in a sermon, supposed doctrinal errors or decisions they disagree with. However, we need to remember that David and Samuel, Peter and Paul all had their problems and their detractors, yet God used these imperfect human beings to carry on His Work. The human leaders of God’s Church today are no different, and detractors have not disappeared. We need to appreciate the fact that the Tomorrow’s World magazine and television program are reaching millions of people and hundreds of thousands are responding.  The Internet presence of the Church is growing, and lives are being changed. The Gospel of the Kingdom of God and the message of salvation through Jesus Christ are being preached, and the world is being warned about sobering events that lie just ahead. Little stay-at-home groups are simply unable to do a work of this magnitude or carry out this God-given mission. This is the big picture to keep in mind instead of being caught up looking for loose bricks!
 
Have a profitable Sabbath!
Douglas S. Winnail

20 comments:

DennisCDiehl said...

Dr W said "However, we need to remember that David and Samuel, Peter and Paul all had their problems and their detractors, yet God used these imperfect human beings to carry on His Work. The human leaders of God’s Church today are no different, and detractors have not disappeared."

I have to agree with Dr W in this. It never ends with any organization whether it's positions are correct or not, whatever correct is. Where two or three are gathered , in my experience, one leads, one listens and one brings the watermelon to the church picnic and cleans up.

I would love to give just ONE sermon in LCG or UCG and it would be on the politics between James,Peter, John and Paul in the NT.

There never has been one consistently all speak the same thing true church in history. It didn't act that way in the NT either. James detested Paul as did Peter and John. John felt Peter denying and Judas betraying were no different so don't follow him and Peter had no use for Paul. (We only have Paul's view of his withstanding Peter to his face over food, but I bet you anything, if it happened, Peter could see Paul was not avoiding meats offered to idols as he said he would and teach in Acts 15. It was not a pork thing. And of course, Paul detested the Jerusalem Apostles and learned nothing from them..what a guy! (Galatians 1-2)

The more things change..well you know...

I always liked Dr.W. I'd have lunch with him in Charlotte and he asked me when he first came back to the states but I said I doubt he'd be allowed and never heard from him again. lol. oh well..

Anonymous said...

"Little stay-at-home groups are simply unable to do a work of this magnitude or carry out this God-given mission."

What magnitude? How many people are you really reaching with your site and broadcast, other than COG members in other splinters?

Anonymous said...

Doug, if you are so big and powerful, why does little Bob scare you? Shouldn't you be preparing for your audience with the Queen or Pope Francis?

Anonymous said...

Hey Doug, the LCG site is so powerful it may soon catch up to Bob's one-man site! You are reaching literally TENS of splinters members!

Anonymous said...

Oh, the humility is just oooooooooooooozing.

Pardon the 90s cliche...

NOT.

Will the brick-backering ever end? Of course Thiel's group is laughable. Of course LCG isn't the big man on the totem pole now. But that was a prideful and arrogant comment - even if it is against Thiel's tiny group. Some comments should just be refrained from I think, but that's just my own opinion.

Anonymous said...

(was referring to Doug's comment, not the fine comments on this forum)

Anonymous said...

LOL, and as far as refurbishing office space during the financial crisis, I can just hear the conversation! I'll write a little fiction satire:

"Hey, look at Pack building his campus out there. Whadya think?"

"Nifty. We've got nothing like that."

"Think Canada's listening to us?"

"Nah.... Hey, you wanna refurbish our offices? Can't let Pack have all the gloating now can we?"

"All for shelving Canada? AYE!"

"YES!!! Hey, can I have a blacklight?"

"Sure. I get the big globe!"

"NO ONE GETS THE BIG GLOBE BUT ME. OK, Now that Canada's gone, let's get Subway!!!"

LOL, I kid. :) :)

Joe Moeller said...

A big problem in the COGs , and this means all of them, is that they really hate the "feedback" mechanism.

Most are ran with a communist model, and no free market feed back mechanism.

UCG has a limited feedback mechanism in now allowing comments and the like on its web pages. However, there needs to be a lot more than just allowing comments. There needs to be true market driven response to the entire organization.

Companies and organizations that are growing and relevant are constantly hungering for customer feedback. They are doing marketing research of their consumers and responding to their needs. They are consumer driven, and look to them for innovation and input.

Winnail is making a mistake here as is LCG. Back in the 1970s , American automakers thought that American consumers had no choice , so they just produced crappy product. Soon companies like VW, Datsun and Toyota were putting out excellent product , cheaper and more desirable. Detroit WAS NOT LISTENING or Responding to the feedback.

The COGs are terrible in public relations to their customers. They need to embrace the negative feedback and properly respond to legitimate questions. There should ALWAYS be the proverbial suggestion box, and it should be public. Where there is smoke there often indeed is fire.

The flow of service is upside down in the COGS. The leadership believe that the customers are there to SERVE THEM. LOL! They better wake up and realize that the customers have CHOICE now, and that they need to be properly serviced and that their comfort, needs and growth are primary.

This is why you are seeing more and more of the circus of the like of Pack, Flurry, Meredith , Thiel, who claim a type of Supernatural Godly primacy and Biblical claims of title. IT IS AN ATTEMPT TO SHORT CIRCUIT A TRUE ECONOMY and market reaction by the brethren!

Their product SUCKS , but they try to keep you buying because of guilt and false claims. Detroit tried to do the same in the 70s by claiming that it was "UnAmerican" to buy a foreign car.

But the public is not long fooled. Eventually Detroit started to build quality cars at good prices and good gas mileage. COGS wake up and smell the coffee and stop it with the false messiah claims.

Become true servant leaders. Be powered more by service, faith , fidelity, LOVE and less by money. Embrace innovation, teaching styles and modernization that prepares your customers to face a more complicated world and life.

Quit trying to pander a product that was bad in 1967 and is even worse today. START LISTENING HUMBLY TO THOSE YOU ARE SUPPOSEDLY SERVANTS TO!

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

(Write In Candidate for UCG President)

Douglas Becker said...

Find fault?

Find fault?!

It's hard to find anything right with them.

Anonymous said...

"This is the big picture to keep in mind instead of being caught up looking for loose bricks!"

Uh, no. There are other even bigger pictures that totally invalidate that "big picture." Speaking of loose bricks, isn't that what all the splinters of WCG are? Just loose bricks. Headed up by loose cannons.

Anonymous said...

"Little stay-at-home groups are simply unable to do a work of this magnitude or carry out this God-given mission."
It seemed to work in the New Testament time when people met I homes and "turned the world upside down."

Bill said...

Joe said: "A big problem in the [ACOGs] is that they really hate the 'feedback' mechanism"

Ain't that the truth Joe!

I just read an interesting observation in John Tuit's book The Truth Shall Make You Free:

IN MAY 1978, SRI INTERNATIONAL, A LARGE MANAGEMENT Consulting firm in Menlo Park, California, delivered to the Church its report entitled "Evaluation of the Institutional Marketing of the Worldwide Church of God." SRI had conducted an
in-depth analysis of the Church membership. Former religious affiliations, geographical data, and income levels were all taken into account. The means by which members came into contact with
the Church and later into membership were carefully analyzed. Apparently, their findings were totally ignored. In their summary they stated that early action was urged. The report stated: "The studies conclusions and recommendations cover several matters that SRI believes should be given the
highest possible priority by the leadership of the Worldwide Church of God. In SRI's judgment, problems connected with the institutional marketing of the Church call for immediate attention and early action to prevent further deterioration of deleterious trends that threaten the continued well-being of the
Church." It was felt that a turnaround was achievable. As the report continued: "The final section of the report is action-oriented. Several recommendations are offered that SRI believes can and should be implemented. If the principal recommendations are implemented, SRI believes the Worldwide Church of God will be able to achieve a turnaround. If not implemented, SRI believes the Church's growth-related problems will probably remain unresolved, and the future well-being of the Church will remain in question." In a comment that Armstrong should have paid particular attention to, the report stated: "The most profound kinds of changes are emerging from the bottom upward, not from the top downward."

To be continued...

Bill said...

Continued from above...

The report went on to say: "SRI'S understanding of the current era of change leads it to conclude that organizations like the Worldwide Church of God will have to be more flexible and more communicative than they have been in the past, to be able to adapt to the various constraints that were not present in the environments of the 1950s and early 1960s. It will be advantageous to develop improved flexibility so that changes can be accommodated with a minimum of disruption. Also it will be more advantageous to be more communicative with the people and groups that are affected by the Church, so that those groups and the Church will have a better understanding of the other's thinking." In its conclusions and recommendations, the report stated
that the Church was confronted with the necessity of
significantly curtailing its expenditures to affect a turnaround in the Church. The report confirmed our own claim that much of the Church's money went for purposes other than preaching the Gospel, other than the purposes for which the money was
collected. On this matter, the report stated: "Until this year, activities that contribute directly to the future regeneration of the Worldwide Church of God have received a relatively small and declining share of the Church's total budget, whereas a large and
growing share has gone for nonregenerative purposes, such as Ambassador Auditorium, the AICF, Quest Magazine and Ambassador
College." Among its recommendations the report urged that "the Church try to reverse the deleterious trends that underlie its current financial predicament within the next year or two." In further recommendations, the report suggested "that the Worldwide Church of God consider temporarily curtailing its non-essential activities to give the Church time and funds to reverse the deleterious trends discussed previously." (From Chapter Title "1979 vs 1939")

I guess it shows that they were never willing to listen to anyone except HWA whose word alone was L-A-W!

Lurker said...

Hey Joe, kudos to UCG for appearing to allow feedback/cjomments on blogs and Facebook but they are still censoring. I've seen many times on Facebook where people have disagreed and after so many unfavorable comments the web powers-that-be either delete the comments or make them inaccessible when you click to see more. The only thing I hate more than a lack of transparency is mock transparency that's censored in reality.

NO2RCM said...

Winnail: ... "the Church of God" ... "the Work of God" ... "Living Church of God" ... "the Truth of God" ... "the very Church that is doing this Work" ... "His Work" ... "The human leaders of God’s Church"
Notice how Winnail slickly tries to equate the Living Church of God with God's church, God's truth, the very church, and His work. This goes all the way back to WCG when being in God's church and being in WCG were supposedly the same thing. Meredith and Winnail are striving to perpetuate this deception in order to implant the idea that leaving LCG is the same as leaving the church, the work, the truth, etc. They have to resort to this illusion because if they simply trusted in Jesus Christ to deliver people to them as He sees fit, the game's over. Thus, the regular effort to exalt Meredith and LCG and put down all others.

NO2RCM said...

To state that "little stay-at-home groups" can't do the work and only LCG can, is an arrogant slap in the face of the Head of the Church, Jesus Christ. It is His work, His church, and He doesn't need LCG to do it. This is yet one more attempt to convince people that they will not be doing the Work of God if they leave LCG. Again, they are acting out of self-preservation rather than trust in Jesus Christ. This arrogance was reflected in the 2009 Feast Film, where it opened up with "Our mission is to preach the gospel to the world so that Jesus Christ can return". Wow! If they don't do this work, Jesus will be constrained and unable to return! How could anyone possibly consider leaving LCG!

Anonymous said...

NO2RCM said:

"Winnail: ... "the Church of God" ... "the Work of God" ... "Living Church of God" ... "the Truth of God" ... "the very Church that is doing this Work" ... "His Work" ... "The human leaders of God’s Church"
Notice how Winnail slickly tries to equate the Living Church of God with God's church, God's truth, the very church, and His work. This goes all the way back to WCG when being in God's church and being in WCG were supposedly the same thing. Meredith and Winnail are striving to perpetuate this deception in order to implant the idea that leaving LCG is the same as leaving the church, the work, the truth, etc. They have to resort to this illusion because if they simply trusted in Jesus Christ to deliver people to them as He sees fit, the game's over. Thus, the regular effort to exalt Meredith and LCG and put down all others."

Excellent comments regarding Dr. Winnail(DW), and SELF, and how Doug and the Living group foster FEAR RELIGION. Those with eyes to see, and ears to hear (unlike DW), easily see them "loose bricks" for what they are. DW will come to "see" it all later.

And your last oomment: "...Thus, the regular effort to exalt Meredith and LCG and put down all others."

Wow! Isn't that what Bob Thiel used to do, until his eyes/ears became more open to see the "loose bricks?" Although, with Bob Thiel there is still so much SELF evident for all others to see...and it ain't pretty.

How long will we have to wait until DW takes his walk away from the "loose bricks?" Until that time DW will continue to be a blind leader leading the blind.

John

Byker Bob said...

May I make a humble suggestion to any future aspiring leader?

If God is truly working through you, forget about the ashes of the Armstrong movement! Preach the gospel you feel God is inspiring you to preach, and if a church raises up in conjunction with that, fine and dandy! Don't try to poach members from the Armstrong movement, don't base your ministry on some sort of bogus history and mantle passing from HWA, and ignore the temptation to gossip and tar and feather your former bosses and the activity of their splinters! Lastly, don't try to steal cows, don't thumb your nose at the IRS, don't give yourself special biblical titles, realize it is God who changes people's hearts and not your awesome persuasive powers or incredible authority, and quit bragging!

It appears that some folks have forgotten the concept of embarrassment.

BB

Anonymous said...


Joe Moeller writes, "UCG has a limited feedback mechanism in now allowing comments and the like on its web pages."

OK, joe...Please link to ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of a comment on an official UCG webpage, a comment that hasn't been deleted, opining that the UCG was WRONG, and those in the COGAWA are RIGHT about the recent "Cowgate" episode that caused half the ministers and one third of the members to leave the UCG.

If you are unable to do so, all I can say is....
Whatsamatter? Cow got yer tongue?

Virginia Tanner said...

All of you will someday see.