Friday, November 1, 2013

Dennis Leap and the Catholic Church of God



Dennis Leap, that wild and whacky guy from the Philadelphia Church of God that likes his bicycle shorts, is back today with an article claiming his cult is keeping all the "biblical" holy days just as the apostles and Jesus did.

As usual though, he starts out Christian bashing, especially Catholics.  Here is what he said:

Here is the paradox with modern Christianity. While many seek to worship Jesus Christ and proclaim to follow Him, very few rely on the Bible as their sole source for doctrine and religious observances. One denomination claiming 1.2 billion members considers its “sacred traditions” equal to or greater than the Bible. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, “As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, ‘does not derive her certainty about revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.’” Catholic Church history proves that its “sacred traditions” have always trumped what the Bible says.

What he actually described is exactly what Armstrongism has done for well over 70 years now.  It places tradition above what Jesus Christ and the New Covenant is all about.

What Leap really said was:

Here is the paradox with modern Armstrongism. While many seek to worship Jesus Christ and proclaim to follow Him, very few rely on the Bible as their sole source for doctrine and religious observances. Our Church of God denomination, claiming less than 20,000 members, considers its “sacred traditions” equal to or greater than the Bible: The Mystery of the Ages, Herbert W. Armstrong, and God's most important men, Gerald Flurry and David C. Pack. “As a result the Church of God, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, ‘does not derive her certainty about revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.’” Armstrongite Church history proves that its “sacred traditions” have always trumped what the Bible says.

40 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yes, Paul kept the Holy Days. Why? Because he was a Jew, a Pharisee (Acts 23:6). He was a "completed Jew" or a "Messianic Jew", one who accepted Jesus as the Messiah. He continued to practice some Jewish customs, and observe Holy Days (Acts 20:16) etc. BUT, he never imposed them upon the Gentile Christians. HWA's claim that Paul's observance of Holy Days, etc. proves that the New Testament Church did the same, is false.

RSK said...

Unfortunately, that's often true. Armstrongism uses the Bible as a resource to plunder prooftexts... yet when push comes to shove, they end up having to refer to HWA's writings, not the Bible!

Britain W. Stevenson said...

These are the scriptures that I believe best describe the Philadelphia Church of God in Edmond, Oklahoma(FYI-charity=LOVE...

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 1Corinthians 13:1-3

Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.Matthew 7:22

They're out there destroying people's lives and not even worrying about THEIR fate. True psychopaths!

Byker Bob said...

Yes, and this guy is one of the few people I know of with his name that reminds me that Dennis spelled backwards is "sinned"!

Someone much wiser than I once observed that if we have a strong and prolonged animosity against someone, we become just like them. In many ways, the WCG became exactly what they constantly accused the RCC of being, even to the extent of treating HWA as if he were the Pope.

BB

Anonymous said...

The new testament is mostly a pack of forgeries. Why base your life on that?

Joe Moeller said...

Anon at 4:00 PM

Your argument is a common one, but Zech. 14, which clearly is in "the future" shows mandatory FOT observance by "gentiles".

It does not hold to logic that their was FOT observance in the past, and that there will be FOT observance yet in the future, but there shouldnt be FOT observance in the present.

What is special about the "present" that there should not be FOT observance for Christians?

Luv,
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Anonymous said...

Leap points the finger at the Catholics (and by extension Protestants too) claiming that they uphold ritual and tradition over "what the Bible says."

Well for starters if you ask 100 Christians "what the Bible says" on an issue you'd probably get nigh 100 different answers!

In the case of Catholicism (or Popery) they follow what the Pope says. So he says to observe Sunday, Christmas, Easter, Saints days, abstaining from meat on Fridays, etc. so Catholics or Papists do so.

My problem with this is that nowhere in the NT does it say that Christ or His disciples observed Sunday on a weekly basis after His resurection on Wavesheaf day; neither does it say what day the Christ was born or that his disciples observed His birthday; nor does it say that they observed Easter or saints days each day of the year. There is scant information in the NT itself as to what exactly the early Christians (Jew and Gentile) observed.

Did they observe Saturday or Sunday as a weekly "sabbath" or no day at all?

Did they observe "the Lord's Supper" or "Christ's Passover" once a year or more frequently whenever they could get together (eg weekly, monthly, quarterly etc.)? If they observed it annually then what calendar did they follow?

Did they observe the other "Jewish" or Bible holy days or not? And if so how did they keep all of these days? In Jerusalem at the Temple? Where ever groups of Christians lived & could meet?

Did they observe the "Jewish" rituals of "clean & unclean meat"?

And was there a distinction between Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians & what both groups had to observe?

So many questions & few answers or in our day & age even more answers than questions. Thus, making it all so confusing!!!

In the case of Armstrongism they parallel Catholicism in that they follow what HWA said (ie "18 restored truths" or variants thereof). So he said to observe Saturday as the Sabbath, the holy days of Lev. 23, observe Sukkot in cities designated by church administration, abstain from "unclean meat," triple tithe on your income, etc. so Armstrongists do so.

Basically IMO it's like the pot calling the kettle black...

Anonymous said...

Joe said: "Your argument is a common one, but Zech. 14, which clearly is in "the future" shows mandatory FOT observance by "gentiles". It does not hold to logic that their was FOT observance in the past, and that there will be FOT observance yet in the future, but there shouldnt be FOT observance in the present..."

But, a far better question is if Israel as a nation observed the national feast days, which even Christ kept (& the early church) while Israel was still a nation & the Temple still stood & if it will be kept in Jerusalem again when Christ returns to rule over all the nations it doesn't necessarily follow that we must observe it in the present now does it? There is no temple in Jerusalem for starters whereas in the future there will be when Christ returns. So if we are to keep it today then how? In Jerusalem? In tents or pergolas in your own backyard? Or like the Armstrongists do in exotic resort hotels?

Christ also observed Hanukkah in John 10:22-23 so why don't Armstrongists? Was there a seventh day Sabbath between Adam and Moses? I don't believe there is any biblical evidence whatsoever that there was. God promised David would have a son to rule on his throne through all generations forever. So what happened between Zedekiah and Jesus? We know when Jesus returns He'll resume the Davidic throne then, but what about today in the present? Just because something existed in the past and will again in the future doesn't necessarily mean it has to in the present.

Anonymous said...

The Zech. 14 reference is often quoted, but they stop short of the final verses making reference to "all they that sacrifice" -- vs. 21. I've asked questions in the past for more solid scriptures for modern feast day observance and it boils down to this assumption that if they were to be kept in the past and will be kept in the future, we should be keeping them now.

However, that same argument could be held for sacrifices. Not only does the previous mentioned verse make reference to future sacrifices, but the latter part of Ezekiel (Ch. 40 on) gives great detail as to future sacrifices. I've asked about the last chapters of Ezekiel before. They have no answer other than "It says what it says" and their tone is one that they don't want to hear those questions again.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 7:15, I had to find the answers to all of those questions myself, and, happily, though it took some time, I've got it all pretty much mopped up at this point. But, I quit sharing, the problem being that you never get to just state your beliefs. People want to argue them or attempt to get you to switch to theirs, not so much for your benefit, but for theirs, so that they can feel secure, and validated. I understand iron sharpening iron, but unfortunately, some like to play rock breaks scissors.

If you are still inclined towards belief, I would suggest reading materials which have been written by legitimate Christian scholars. You know, the ones that were forbidden while we were in WCG or splinter. WCG was not the only church community that supported their beliefs by citing scripture. Some groups offer even more thorough exegetics. Google the author's name to get some background. If a book (or author) doesn't feel of a right spirit, or seems poorly researched, dump it, and go on to the next. Remember, you are not going to find any one teacher or group that has 100% truth. Hopefully you can find authors who challenge you and take you to the next level while perhaps providing a credible or fitting answer to one or more of your questions, or a solution to something that has troubled you.

I could recommend some authors, but it will be more meaningful if you find your own. It's usually best to keep their names to yourself, because the minute you mention one that has inspired you, they're going to get bashed. (rock breaks scissors)

I'd say ask God to walk with you on this, and then have some fun with it. Could be an interesting adventure!

Anonymous said...

I always found it quite amusing that the ministers in PCG blustered and railed about both 'Laodicean' churches and the Catholic Church because when you get right down to it, they are the institutions that most closely resemble PCG.

Anonymous said...

Joe, rules change from one dispensation to another. Moral laws do not, but ceremonial ones do. The Ten Commandments have one ceremonial law, (the Sabbath)the rest are moral laws, each of these nine is repeated in the NT after Pentecost, though not the Sabbath law. Observing them, as Paul oftentimes did, is optional. We don't stone people for breaking the Sabbath nor do we wear tassels on our clothing. Jews today do not tithe because the temple is gone and the Levites have been lost to history.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous (November 1, 2013 at 7:42 PM) said...

"God promised David would have a son to rule on his throne through all generations forever. So what happened between Zedekiah and Jesus? We know when Jesus returns He'll resume the Davidic throne then, but what about today in the present?"


Herbert W. Armstrong had an answer for that in his book about the United States and Britain in Prophecy. Jeremiah took away Zedekiah's daughters to another land. Today, David's descendants are the kings and queens of the United Kingdom.

Joe Moeller said...

Anon @ 6:55AM wrote:
each of these nine is repeated in the NT after Pentecost, though not the Sabbath law...

I REPLY:
(NIV) Galatians 4:9
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

To the best of my understanding, Galatians is written after Pentecost.

Luv,
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Head Usher said...

I can't understand why the Old Testament had to be part of the xian's holy book in the first place. First there was the Tanakh, and it was just fine. Then some guys came along and, inspired in part by the Tanakh, wrote a new holy book. But they stole the entire previous holy book, and made it the preface to their new holy book. Why did they do that? The Mormons didn't make the xian holy book the preface to their newer holy book and call it "The Newest Testament So Far" so why did the xians do that? Anyway, the comedian Lewis Black, a Jew, has something to say about what xians do with their holy book.

"I never thought that during the course of my life, a president would be elected who didn’t believe in evolution ... He believes that the earth was created in seven days ... And why does he believe that? Because he read it in the Old Testament, which is the book of my people—the Jewish people ... And yet every Sunday I turn on the television set, and there’s a priest or a pastor reading from—my book—and interpreting it, and their interpretations, I have to tell you, are usually wrong. It’s not their fault, because it’s not their book. You never see a rabbi on the TV interpreting the New Testament, do you? If you want to truly understand the Old Testament, if there is something you don’t quite get, there are Jews who walk among you, and THEY—I promise you this—will take TIME out of their VERY JEWY, JEWY DAY, and interpret for you anything that you’re having trouble understanding." —Lewis Black

And that's what the educated xians do with the Jewish holy book. But then, you get uneducated folks like Herbert Armstrong who have no training or exposure to anything, and that includes xianity, and a million times less when it comes to Judaism, and they read these two holy books that, by an accident of history got pasted together, and have no idea what to do with them. But do you think that stops them? No, because, they think they, and they alone, are literally god's gift to humanity. Literally. And for some reason, they misunderstand both books to be saying that the only way to be a xian is to be a Jew. I shit you not. I couldn't make this stuff up. So all this nonsense about xians needing to keep Jewish holy days is just part of Herbert Armstrong's deep, broad, profound, and all-encompassing lack of education.

Anonymous said...

As an active member of the Church of God still, I have to say you are right on this one.
This applies especially to the makeup 'doctrine' and yes, they call it a doctrine. Its really just an excuse to lord it over women in reality.

Your friendly local Jew said...

Orthodox Jews do indeed 'tithe' today.
It is called maaser(mah-ah-sair) and 1/10th is given to charity today.

Anonymous said...

do you execute gays like the bible says? was that moral or ceremonial?

Anonymous said...


Anonymous (November 1, 2013 at 7:42 PM) said...

"Was there a seventh day Sabbath between Adam and Moses? I don't believe there is any biblical evidence whatsoever that there was."



The biblical, weekly, seventh-day Sabbath of rest that God created appears throughout all of human history, from the very beginning right up until today, and it will not go away no matter how many people would like it to.

"By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done" (Genesis 2:2-3, NIV).

Still, many people would like to think that God's own weekly, seventh-day, Sabbath cycle quickly got broken or lost, and that God was too powerless and/or apathetic to do anything about it. One Muslim asked, “Does God need rest?” Maybe not, but God had just finished creating the first man, Adam, on the previous day, and he knew that Adam would need rest. As Jesus explained in the first century AD, “The Sabbath was made for man” (Mark 2:27, NIV).

"The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it" (Genesis 2:15, NIV). Many people do not like the idea of work, and especially the idea of work in the garden of Eden. Even more people would like to think that God sat in his hammock sipping a cool drink on the Sabbath day while Adam was out mowing the lawn in the Garden of Eden on the Sabbath day.

"And after he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Enoch lived 365 years. Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away" (Genesis 5:22-24, NIV). Yet, many people think that God would never have mentioned his own weekly Sabbath day of rest to men like Enoch.

"Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God" (Genesis 6:9, NIV). But again, many people would like to think that Noah prepared for the coming flood by building the ark on the weekly Sabbath day of rest that God had made. After all, wouldn't it be so much more important to "finish the work" of building the ark than to remember the Sabbath day of rest and "slack off" when there was so much work to do?

"I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws" (Genesis 26:4-5, NIV). Of course, many people would like to think that God's weekly Sabbath day of rest was not included in God's "requirements, commands, decrees, and laws" at this point. They think Abraham would have had his servants digging wells and doing other supposedly more practical things than resting on the Sabbath day.

Continued below

Anonymous said...

Continued from above

"Then the LORD said to Moses, 'I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. On the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and it is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days'" (Exodus 16:4-5, NIV). The recorded history of forty years (Exodus 16:35) of the Israelite manna test does nothing to stop many people today from failing the test of whether they will follow God's instructions about the biblical, weekly, seventh-day Sabbath of rest.

Later, at mount Sinai, God gave the Ten Commandments. Notice the fourth commandment: "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy" (Exodus 20:8-11, NIV).

The biblical, weekly, seventh-day Sabbath of rest was made by God the day after he created the first man, Adam. The biblical, weekly, seventh-day Sabbath of rest was commanded by God in one of his own Ten Commandments. The Tablets of the Covenant on which the Ten Commandments were written were put inside the Ark of the Covenant, which was itself put inside the Most Holy Place inside the Holy Place of the Sanctuary that Moses built. How important could the Sabbath day possibly be? Obviously not very important at all according to most people.

"Then the LORD said to Moses, 'Say to the Israelites, "You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy"'" (Exodus 31:12-13, NIV). Most people today seem to prefer to have some sign that they are unholy, such as the observance of the first day of the week, or even the sixth day of the week, rather than have any sign that they are God's holy people, such as the remembrance and observance of the seventh day of the week that God made and commanded to be remembered and kept holy as a sign.

Notice that the biblical, weekly, seventh-day Sabbath of rest was created long before the existence of any Jews or Israelites. Only Adam was alive at the time, created the day before the Sabbath was made. God knew that man would need rest. As Jesus said in the first century AD (Mark 2:27), "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." Notice that Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man, not against man. Notice also that the Sabbath was made for man, not just for the Jews.

“He [Jesus] went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read” (Luke 4:16, NIV). Jesus knew when the Sabbath day was, and he observed it regularly.

Continued below

Anonymous said...

Continued from above

The biblical, weekly, seventh-day Sabbath of rest was made by God at the very beginning of human history. Roughly 2,000 years into human history, the Sabbath day was mentioned in one of God's own |Ten Commandments. After about 4,000 years of human history, Jesus was on earth observing the Sabbath day. Today, after nearly 6,000 years of human history, the Sabbath day is still known and observed by some, but ignored and rejected by most, including by most of those who imagine themselves to be religious.

Today, about one billion Catholics think that Sunday (the first day of the week) is the Lord's Day and should be observed, and so do about another billion Protestants in the Catholic church's numerous Protestant daughter churches. In fact, they would like to legislate the observance of Sunday, and ban Sabbath observance. About one billion Muslims observe Friday (the sixth day of the week) as their day of assembly. The grossly immoral people in the evolutionary religion don't want to give anyone a break and think that everyone should be worked to death 24/7/365. Some former WCG people now like to say that every day is a Sabbath or that Jesus is the Sabbath. Why does almost the entire world want to do anything and everything else under the sun except what God said to do?

Why such incredible confusion? Below are several verses that explain the big picture of what is going on with the Sabbath, and with everything else.

“He [God] has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws” (Psalm 147:19-20, NIV). This explains why the nations of the world do not know the truth.

“We [the apostle John & company] know that we are the children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one” (I john 5:19, NIV). This explains how few in the world know the truth.

“He [the angel] seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended” (Revelation 20:2-3, NIV). This explains the ultimate reason why the world does not know the truth.

“'From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,' says the LORD” (Isaiah 66:23, NIV). This explains the future role of the Sabbath in the affairs of all mankind.

End of comment

Anonymous said...


Byker Bob said...

"Yes, and this guy is one of the few people I know of with his name that reminds me that Dennis spelled backwards is 'sinned'!"



Perhaps you should not say such things. What if Dennis Diehl sees it and becomes discouraged and depressed all over again? On the other hand, maybe it would cause him to reflect on the reason for his issues, and lead to repentance.



Britain W. Stevenson said...

I don't get it. How is Dennis Leap still able to write articles when practically the whole time I was in the PCG, he was suffering from depression and other mental maladies. I remember him having the whole online eighth grade class read some old book about a recluse up north who planted acres of beans, and that was his whole day, pulling weeds out of his humongous bean garden. Dennis would ask the kids what they thought about various aspects of the subject. Most wouldn't volunteer any answers and he had to call on each. I could tell the mother or father's were secretly giving answers for their kids to respond back. My son was one of the students. I remember thinking how that book wasn't even remotely interesting to the kids, but they had to play like it was just to appease Dennis Leap...the man with the continual mental illness in the PCG. Funny how Gerald Flurry keeps the mentally ill around and throws the rest out.
Even if any of their beliefs are true, all you'll come away with after they get a hold of you, if your not careful, is mental heath issues just like Dennis Leap!

Britain W. Stevenson said...

Responding to Anonymous' long sermon explaining the creation week Sabbath...Not being a smart-Alec, but could you give a sermon on where God said to keep the Sabbath with a bunch of Hitlarian, tyrannical ministers and a false prophet??

Head Usher said...

Holy Spirit? Transformative power of god that helps you out? LOL

Answered prayer? Sure, as long as the answers are always "no" and "wait."

The bible is a forgery. Not only is it not written by any deity, it isn't even "transcribed" by the guys the bible claims.

——>If there is a creator deity, it surely isn't Yahweh<——

Sabbath? *POOF*

Holy days? *POOF*

Financial obligations to Yahweh's representatives? *POOF*

Heavenly kingdoms, lakes of fire, bottomless pits, and Satan? *POOF*

But hey, that Jesus guy, like a few other notable people, said a few inspiring things, but you do have to be selective. And for sure, you have to separate it from all that other numbskullery.

Anonymous said...


Britain W. Stevenson said...

"Responding to Anonymous' long sermon explaining the creation week Sabbath...Not being a smart-Alec, but could you give a sermon on where God said to keep the Sabbath with a bunch of Hitlarian, tyrannical ministers and a false prophet??"



That was not a sermon. That was merely a Blog comment that got a bit long, and could have gotten even longer.

NO, I cannot find any place where God ever said to keep the Sabbath with a bunch of Hitlerian, tyrannical ministers and a false prophet. Why would you ever want to do such a thing anyway??? Are you desperately seeking abuse???????

Gerald R. Flurry attracted a following of former Worldwide Church of God people to his Philadelphia Church of Fraud by falsely claiming to be God's man and by falsely claiming to be faithfully following everything that Herbert W. Armstrong had taught. However, in actual practice, Gerald Flurry has somehow managed to edit, change, twist, mangle, warp, pervert and bugger up virtually all true understanding of what was really taught by Herbert W. Armstrong.

Around 15 years ago, Dennis ("the Menace") Leap had criticized Gerald Flurry's Malachi's Message book. Gerald Flurry got angry about it and shouted in one of his sermons that he had made it "sound like it was written by a drunk!"--which, of course, it actually had been. More accurately, it had been plagiarized and revised half a dozen times by a drunk. Dennis Leap then had to say in a sermon in a contrite tone of voice that he "firmly" believed in it. Dennis Leap is lucky that Gerald Flurry did not make him stand on his head and beg to continue to be given power over the people and a paycheck. Dennis Leap's mental health issues are the result of his own sins and are well deserved.

Retired Prof said...

BB, if "Dennis" is the reverse spelling of "sinned," doesn't that imply that people named Dennis have committed the reverse of sin?

Of course what the reverse of sin consists of depends. By Old Testament standards it is to carry out obligatory rituals at designated times. By New Testament standards it is to follow the Golden Rule.

Byker Bob said...

Professor!!!. What a can of worms that opens up! Is a traf when you suck gaseous waste matter back into your butt? If you pull the ground prong off the electrical cord to your microwave, and plug it in backwards, will it chill and freeze the food? Can you drive your car in reverse to refill your fuel tank? If you lose money on a business deal, are Mr. Pack and Mr. Flurry required to pay tithes to you? I don't even want to consider all of the implications to your question!

LOL!
BB

Retired Prof said...

BB, it's not necessary to fiddle with the wiring on the microwave. To freeze, say, a plastic pouch of peas, all you have to do is set the microwave on DEFROST for 4-5 negative minutes.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 9:19 said: "HWA had an answer for that in his book about the US&BIP. Jeremiah took away Zedekiah's daughters to another land. Today, David's descendants are the kings and queens of the United Kingdom."

I no longer believe this to be true. It's not even a legend based on the Irish annals. It's fiction based on an error of FRA Glover who misidentified Tea Tephi as a daughter of Zedekiah. Further, the Bible documents all of the kings of Israel & Judah descended from David were sons not daughters. And God's promise to David was for "a son to reign upon his throne" (cf. Jer. 33:21) not any daughters. Thus, only a son, not a daughter, could perpetuate the Davidic line.

My own research re Jeremiah & Zedekiah's daughters leaves them in Tahpanhes after the fall of Jerusalem. Petrie notes in his "Egypt & Israel" a fortress mound that was known as Qasr Bint el Yehudi or the "Palace of the Jew's Daughter." Where they traveled after this & their ultimate fate is unknown.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:09-11 said: "The biblical, weekly, seventh-day Sabbath of rest that God created appears throughout all of human history, from the very beginning right up until today, and it will not go away no matter how many people would like it to."

NB, however, Gen. 2:1-3 doesn't follow the same pattern as Gen. 1:5,8,13,19,23,31 "and the evening and the morning were the [first, etc.] day." Thus, it's argued the 7th day began the endless sabbath rest Adam, Eve & the whole creation experienced until our first parents sinned. The weekly Sabbath was given to the nation of Israel alone as a memorial of this eternal creation rest. Even the Mosaic laws re the weekly Sabbath reflected the universal rest Adam & Eve enjoyed in Eden prior to their fall & expulsion (eg they didn't leave their dwelling place or bake or boil or work or carry a load or build a fire or buy or sell etc). And God plans to restore this sabbath rest over all His creation through Christ (Rom 8:19-23).

Also, it must be noted that the references you quote were written from the time of Moses after which God enjoined the weekly Sabbath upon His people, Israel. So if Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob kept the weekly Sabbath (& by extension the holy days of Lev. 23) then why is there no record of them doing so?

Why didn't Abraham teach his descendants to observe the weekly Sabbath (besides circumcision) prior to their entrance into Egypt seeing the Jews have been good at both for millennia since?

And if they observed the weekly Sabbath prior then why did God have to reveal it to His people when they were in the desert under Moses (Ex. 16)?

Also, if you subscribe to the view that the weekly Sabbath was observed by Noah, Abraham, Isaac & Jacob seeing it was later given in the Mosaic Law & it is recorded that Abraham kept His laws (Gen. 26:5) then what about the Mosaic laws re incest? Didn't Adam & Eve's children commit incest back then in order to reproduce (cf. Lev. 18)? Didn't Abraham commit incest by marrying his "half-sister" (Gen. 20:12; cf. Dt. 27:22)? What about Lot & his daughters who committed incest with him (Gen. 19:30-38)? Just because it was given in the Mosaic Law doesn't stand to reason that those same "laws" existed prior. & thus by extension just because those "laws" were given in the Mosaic Covenant doesn't stand to reason they're all to be observed now (e.g. animal sacrifices, tithing animals & produce, etc.)

And this is why I wonder what is to be observed as a Xian today & what is to be ignored & disregarded. I mean, if the Sabbath, holy days, clean & unclean rituals, etc. are to be observed by Xians today then why doesn't God send His prophets like He did in OT Israel & Judah to prophesy & reveal His will to us so we can get our spiritual act together for Him? Why was it so important then that Israel & Judah came under the threat of divine punishment, but it seems that now it's so unimportant that no prophets are needed at all to correct Xians the world over?

Byker Bob said...

Anon11: 17---- The Armstrongites forgot about Ezekiel 21:24-27. It proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that the sceptre was taken away, and would not be returned until it was given to Jesus. This set of verses totally renders British Israelism moot, period! No room for wiggle, no room for debate, adios Tea Tephi..

BB

UT, The Reigning Being of Being Banned by Banned by HWA said...

Hey Joe,

Armstrongists are known for their comedic interpretation of Scripture. So, I found it amusing that you mistakenly cited Galatians 4:9 when you meant Hebrew 4:9, to point out that a Sabbath Rest does indeed remain for God's people.

Galatians 4:9 does speak of the Sabbath Rest in a round-about way that Armstrongists don't get. Rather, the 4th chapter of Galatians is one of several passage equating law keeping to bondage and contrasting it to redemption and freedom in Jesus.

Verse 9 of Galatians 4 has Paul asking Christians why would they want to return to enslavement under the law. Then in verse 10, Paul refers to observing special days as part of that enslavement.

HEBREWS 4:9 SAYS "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God." However, verse 7 of the chapter has God setting a new day and calling it "Today" - this is the Sabbath rest referenced in verse 9.

Much of mainline Christianity refers to Jesus as the Sabbath Rest we enter into every Today and therefore we have rest - rest from works of the law (among many other things).

Armstrongists don't want to get too cozy with Jesus. They reject Jesus as the fulfillment of the Sabbath and will not acknowledge a more newly appointed day called Today.

So, for Armstrongists, there is NO true Sabbath Rest! Unless, you Joe, straddle your horse of quasi kicking against UCG pricks and ride it into that redemptive rest of a new Today. How about it Joe?

Anonymous said...

Joe, The Sabbath rest you refer to in Gal 4:9 is found in Heb 4:9. A typo error, I'm sure. I believe that this Sabbath rest is not referring to the 7th day Sabbath, but to another kind of rest. Rest for the souls of men (Matt 11:28-30). We have entered a Sabbath rest meaning we cease our own efforts to gain salvation by work. We rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross. The entire book of Hebrews is declaring that what we have today through Christ is much better than what Moses provided. I enjoy your comments. This is a great website.

Britain W. Stevenson said...

I've found that people that don't post their names are hiding for some reason or another. Sometimes it's because they're one of the COGoder's and are "forbidden" to get on these sites...not following church rules???????
To Anon, the long sermon giver...as far as "Why would you want to do such a thing???" "Are You desperately seeking abuse???????"
Show me one offshoot from the Worldwide that are not abusive?? NO ONE SEEKS ABUSE when becoming a member. They have NO CLUE. They're books and booklets lead you to believe they are following Christ through an end time "Elijah"(Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:Malachi 4:5).
To know so much about Gerald Flurry, you should definitely know that!!

Anonymous said...

Dennis Leap mentally ill?

If you had to work for flurry you would be depressed too. That is the mark of a normal healthy mind, not a sick one. The sick ones are the happy people who like it under him. Get it?

Anonymous said...

Head Usher, you appear to be a member of the PCG. Stop trying to pretend otherwise ... you are losing credibility.

Anonymous said...

Isn't the Law of Moses ONE package, you can't separate some from others. James wrote that if you break one, you've broken them all. No cherry picking allowed. Wasn't Israel a theocracy? We are not under the Law of Moses. We are not Israelites. Someone said that the Jews today still tithe. Not quite. They voluntarily GIVE to help heal the world. Giving (New TEstament) is not the same as tithing.

Anonymous said...


Britain W. Stevenson said...

"Show me one offshoot from the Worldwide that are not abusive??"



NO! Why do you always ask for such difficult things???


"NO ONE SEEKS ABUSE when becoming a member. They have NO CLUE....To know so much about Gerald Flurry, you should definitely know that!!"


I definitely do know that! Simple, honest, and naïve people would never expect the sort of satanic abuse and outright lying that so many PCG members and "ministers" engage in. Naïve people will be totally blindsided by it, and won't know what hit them, and just will not be able to understand how anyone could ever be so perverse and do such evil in God's name.

Anonymous said...

I have family in pcog. I grew up in wcog. Went to church camp in the early 80's. No nightmare stories. Haven't joined pcog. Came close. Can't see why a person has to take 100 question tests and intense study just to go to church. Family wants me to join real bad. Something keeps holding me back.