Saturday, June 1, 2013

Thiel's Angry God And Human Disease



Bob Thiel, the non-ordained self-appointed false prophet has been railing for several weeks about his god using tornadoes to punish sinners with.

Last week LCG announced that Rod King has an aggressive form of prostate cancer.  Is Bob Thiel going to start railing that human sickness  is a tool of God to punish sinners?  That is in essence what Bob is saying when he compares tornadoes to sin.

Armstrongism has always looked at physical sin/illnses to be a result of spiritual sin.  Is that the malarkey that Bob Thiel still promotes?  Will Bob Thiel post  a letter to the membership stating such thing?

Bob Thiel: More Tornadoes, More Bad Weather, All Because God Is Punishing Them For Being Such Grievous Sinners Sinners



More tornadoes hit the heartland last night, and one even struck Moore OK again.  As usual, the  non-ordained self-appointed prophet Thiel is back telling the citizens of the Midwest that they are being punished by God for their dirty sins.  For some reason Bob takes delight in promoting such an angry pissed off god.

The Bible shows that whirlwinds are one of the forms of weather that God controls:
3 The Lord is slow to anger and great in power,
And will not at all acquit the wicked.
The Lord has His way
In the whirlwind and in the storm,
And the clouds are the dust of His feet. (Nahum 1:3)
God teaches that because of disobedience He will scatter people and use a whirlwind:
8 Then the word of the Lord came to Zechariah, saying, 9 “Thus says the Lord of hosts:
‘Execute true justice,
Show mercy and compassion
Everyone to his brother.
10 Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless,
The alien or the poor.
Let none of you plan evil in his heart
Against his brother.’
11 But they refused to heed, shrugged their shoulders, and stopped their ears so that they could not hear. 12 Yes, they made their hearts like flint, refusing to hear the law and the words which the Lord of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Thus great wrath came from the Lord of hosts. 13 Therefore it happened, that just as He proclaimed and they would not hear, so they called out and I would not listen,” says the Lord of hosts. 14 “But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations which they had not known. Thus the land became desolate after them, so that no one passed through or returned; for they made the pleasant land desolate.” (Zechariah 7:8-14)
21 A cyclone sweeps them up — gone!
Not a trace of them left, not even a footprint.
22 Catastrophes relentlessly pursue them;
they run this way and that, but there’s no place to hide —
23 Pummeled by the weather,
blown to kingdom come by the storm.’
(Job 27:21-23, THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary Language © 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson.)

Then to reinforcehis tornado metpahores he resorts to Jeremiah:

The following, presuming it is intended literally, indicates that there will be a very major tornado in the time of the end:
9 Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord has gone forth in fury —
A violent whirlwind!
It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the Lord will not turn back
Until He has executed and performed the thoughts of His heart.
In the latter days you will understand it perfectly. (Jeremiah 23:19-20)
23 Behold, the whirlwind of the Lord
Goes forth with fury,
A continuing whirlwind;
It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.
24 The fierce anger of the Lord will not return until He has done it,
And until He has performed the intents of His heart.
In the latter days you will consider it. (Jeremiah 30:23-24)

Bob never quotes from the Gospel messages but slobbers all over Hebrew scriptures meant for a certain people at a certain point in time.

God uses weather and other events to try to get people’s attention.
God does not want people to suffer, but to turn to Him:
10 “Therefore you, O son of man, say to the house of Israel: ‘Thus you say, “If our transgressions and our sins lie upon us, and we pine away in them, how can we then live?”‘ 11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’ (Ezekiel 33:10-11)
God wants people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). He uses weather for correction and for His mercy (Job 37:13).
 

Dave Pack: With All Competition Soon Gone God Will FINALLY Be Able To Do His Work!!!!!!!!!!



What a weak, impotent, pussy-whipped god it is that Dave follows.  The poor thing just cannot get his work done because of all the interfering splinter group leaders out there.  Why won't they just go away!!!!!!!!!!!! Never fear though, SuperD is here!. 

With the soon coming demise of the three large splinter group leaders, SuperD comes to the rescue!

With ALL competition gone, The Restored Church of God will be the instrument through which Almighty God does “again” the Work accomplished under Mr. Armstrong’s leadership—and will thus be the only organization finishing God’s Work. May God help you see your potential role in this effort. Some in the “houses” have read these Friday announcements and already come with us as a direct result. (In fact, we just grew in numeric attendance by a greater amount in May than the United Church of God announced it grew in the last 12 months.) Do not miss your chance to be part of what God is doing. And do not miss next week’s announcement! It is every bit as exciting as this one.

Yes Davey, we know.  It's all about numbers.  You are SuperDave after all.

Dave Pack Writes About the "Gall" of Dave Pack




Dave Pack, the the narcissistic wanna-be who can't quit make it, wants those in the splinter groups and particularly the ministers to know that the "gall" he has to say the things he does is NOT made up.

Davey also wants you to know that if you disagree with him you are irrelevant.

A brief inset. No doubt many are today thinking (particularly splinter ministers) “The gall of Dave Pack. How could he possibly believe we will come to his church? Who does he think he is?!” The answer is: I certainly did not (and could not) dream up the understanding of the Haggai prophecy—meaning its obviously only correct explanation (and other incredible verses will be explained). What you have been reading are not my ideas. The article “God’s People Back Together—SOON!” does not express my opinions. One with an even half open mind can see that article is demonstrably provable—that this understanding comes entirely from GOD’S WORD! Who agrees or disagrees—likes or doesn’t like me—is not relevant in the slightest. These things are going to happen. God recorded that they would almost 2,500 years ago. And finally, besides not being a prophet, I did not pick myself to explain these things to the returning remnant (and you), GOD did! And more explanation will follow each week—some of it VERY STRONG MATERIAL!


Dave Pack Says: BELIEVE THIS : Literature Published by All The Splinter Groups Will Soon Be Retired.





According to Dave, the leaders of the top three COG 's will soon die this fall.  At that time all the present members will immediately jump ship to Dave Pack.

Let’s ponder for a moment. Reunification obviously means ONE organization doing ONE Work. This means all redundancy will disappear. First, it means God’s blessings will be on all ministers and brethren doing His Work. Next it means the literature of the other groups will be immediately RETIRED. The combined resources of the big organizations—brethren, staff, ministers, assets and funding—will be POOLED. God’s Plan specifically includes this. (Other details about what else this means, in areas of the Church not directly part of the Work, will be covered in a later announcement.)
The World to Come telecast, already blanketing the world and rapidly expanding, will much further explode in scope and viewership. Think. Most (or all) television contracts now held by the splinters will shift to us because Tomorrow’s World (LCG), Beyond Today (UCG), and The Key of David (PCG) will also be immediately RETIRED! (Believe this!)


The LCG, UCG, PCG flagship magazines will be retired so that all the focus is on ONE magazine.


The Real Truth magazine subscription list will begin sprinting toward multiple millions. This will be in part because Tomorrow’s World (LCG), The Good News (UCG) and The Trumpet (PCG) magazines will also be immediately RETIRED. (And believe this!) This alone will probably quickly generate great numbers of subscribers looking for where to turn. They will find something stronger and uncompromising has supplanted what got mothballed. Of course, the number of magazines distributed in the Newsstand Distribution Program will skyrocket because of much greater funding.

Powerful Public Bible Lectures will be held worldwide. Our websites will become the biggest thing in religion online that the world has ever seen. Internet advertising will multiply to awesome proportion. So will large newspaper ads. The list of how the Work will grow bigger could go on and on. (The serious reader will want to take a moment to study Matthew 22:1-14 and Luke 14:16-24 in this new context. Related parables there describe a time just before Christ’s Return, and clearly after the Haggai prophecy is fulfilled, when God’s Churcll “go into the highways and byways” and the Bible uses the word “compel” people to come so His “House may be filled.”)

Dennis On: "Are We the Scoffers of I Peter 3 and Are We In Big Trouble?"




mocking photo: mocking thHP060.jpg

 Are We the Scoffers of I Peter 3 and Are We In Big Trouble?



Dennis Diehl - EzineArticles Expert AuthorEvery church pastor I have ever met or heard on the radio pulls out the "Scoffer Card" when times get tough.  The local Baptist churches around Greenville must be experiencing a lot flack these days from the youth and from people who come and go through their congregations because they all are giving sermons on this scoffing and persecution for their views. They deserve it as they refuse to update themselves and think it's 1945.  I think these guys meet every Monday morning and pick the theme on radio of the week because they all speak of it using the same scriptures all week long.  Scoffing at religion and religious leaders was not invented by WCG and the splinter explosion that came from it.  They did perfect it however providing endless reasons for scoffers to scoff.  

 Most theologians now feel that I and ll Peter were not written by the Gospel Peter and in fact, each book was probably written by two different men 70-90 and as late as 112 AD.  These are books written in the name of Peter but in excellent Greek using the Greek OT which most feel any real Galilean Peter would never do nor could he.  He was just a fisherman after all.  It is pseudopigrapha or a false writing written to address the great disappointment  of still no show Jesus.  

In the WCG/Splinter experience, we have been given an never ending parade of self appointed prophets, priests, witnesses, messengers, watchers and Apostles that make their living off the concept of "soon,"  "just around the corner," "by Feast time," "by Pentecost" , "By 2016" and of course, the New Testament gives them all the terminology they need to promote the soon of the Second Coming.   However the modern day splinters and all of fundamentalist Christianity are having exactly the same problems today with the no show Jesus as the early churches did back when those scriptures actually applied to them.  It is humorous to me that 2000 years later, a minister can still quote the ancient texts as if they were just written for today and no one questions this.  

In reality, NONE of the NT soon and shortly statements are for us. It was for them and it failed to deliver.  Duality and types were invented to solve this problem and keep it all going low these thousands of years later. 

Of course early Christians scoffed at the ministry .  They were the ones telling everyone   "things which must SHORTLY come to pass."  That "the hour NOW IS!"  That "the day is FAR SPENT"  and "Little Children, it is the LAST HOUR."    Of course it wasn't.  The Apostle Paul spent his thirty year career telling everyone that he would be among the "we who are alive and remain."  He fully expected Jesus to return in his time and only near the end when he got old did he wake up and smell the coffee.. Of course he had also taught others to not marry, not date and send it in so he brewed his own scoffers as did they all.  Paul exited the scene in classic "I"  "me" and "my" style with his "I have fought the good fight, I have kept the faith..therefore there is laid up for ME......which I shall receive."  Etc.  I'm not sure Paul actually kept the faith.  He kept his faith and his version of that faith but it seems "All those in Asia have turned aside from me..." had another version in mind.  I bet Paul called them scoffers. 

It is not scoffing to notice something does not happen as presented.  Ron Weinland was never subtle in his views of who he thought he was and the message he thought he had to bring.  Dave Pack is not subtle in this either nor is Gerald Flurry.  They'd draw the scoffer out of most critically thinking human beings.  What they say is simply foolishness and fantasy made up in their heads.  Flurry sees himself in Malachi,  Pack in Haggai and Weinland in Revelation .  Ron evidently still doesn't see himself in prison but I am sure he thinks this is the time for his prison epistles just like the Apostle Paul whose teachings he rarely taught or even understands.

II Peter was written by someone to address the now 2000 year old problem of "where is this Second Coming that YOU say is SOON?"    How soon is soon to you guys.  What kinda soon are we talking about here because I am actually giving a lot to you guys for "a short work," as you quote to us often and have put relationships on hold because of your "3-5 years, maybe 10, 15 at the most, 25 max..."   carrot dangling.  

Let's take a quick look at II Peter and see whose right.  Scoffers or Apostles?   Let's also notice that there is truly nothing new under the sun when it comes to making an apologetic for the obvious.  The write of II Peter is going to sound awfully familiar to the WCG experience. 

the second coming of jesus photo: Second coming of Christ jesus_second_coming.jpg


II Peter 3:
1 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.

In other words, you still should listen to us on these matters. The author does not bother to tell them which commandment "of the Lord" he is thinking of but whatever it was it was really their local Apostles who will interpret for them.  It sounds to me like a little too much critical and not so cooperative thinking was going on and there had to be a lid slammed down on it before the pot boiled over. 


3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”

 
This is the first time mockers and scoffers make their way onto the scenes .  Too much time had passed since Jesus ascended and promised to come back.  A good 50  years at least.  John Kennedy died 50 years ago to give you some context.  Now this "Peter" connects the idea of scoffing and mocking to lust.  Isn't that always the case.  "The reason you want to mock and scoff or believe in good science done well is because you want to disobey God and do what you want to do." Noooooo... there is no connection between these two concepts but it's nice to assign some devious motive to their simple observation that soon does not really seem to be soon.  It makes the Apostle feel better probably to not think they are just making a correct observation.  The comment in verse 4 is a 100% true statement.  People were dying who were sold on the idea that they would only be changed in a moment and a twinkling of an eye and not see death as other men.  It was messing them up.  Whatever signs that generation used to prove to themselves they were in the last times were just going on and on.  The Romans wouldn't get lost, seemed more powerful than ever and you can't even get near Jerusalem anymore if you're a Jew.


5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

 
When and Apostle says "they maintain" he really means  "they stubbornly hold on to this observation..."  This shows he was up against some deadly serious observations and criticism for all the soon and shortly stuff of the past few decades.   And of course, anyone with a clear mind and eyes to see would too.  Whatever "soon" and "shortly" meant to the scoffers, it was obviously not the same kind of "soon" and "shortly' of the ministry, as we shall see.  Sound familiar? 

God is giving us more time
The wisdom of man is foolishness with God
There is a way that seeeeeeems  right to a man....but it ends in death
My ways are not your ways....
and in this case...
God does not count time like you do and days are not really days stupid...

Frankly, I don't understand the writers point in what he says "escapes their notice..."    His water/fire story leads nowhere that I can tell.  Of course the earth was not born out of water in reality.  Water came later in the birth of the earth but that's science and not theology.  Since in the Noah story God promises no more big water events, he goes on to say it will be by fire but again, is not any answer to the question of "my Lord delays his coming."  

I can't resist saying to this one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day defense.  And you know this?  Is this just what you make up when the Apostle also knows the coming is delayed but he can't admit it?  Did he ever season his previous time is short and Jesus is coming soon statements with this little bit of made up apologetic.  No he did not because he didn't need it then when he thought soon was still soon in real time.  But now we go into spirit time and magical thinking.  Next comes the double speak that "the Lord is not slow in the way humans think of slow," when in fact this is classic slow and not soon or shortly either.  I suppose he could have said that "Soon is not soon as you think of it as soon and shortly is a longer shortly than men come up with."  No matter, the Deity can't lose so the apologetic has to be woven for the brethren.  We have seen Ron Weinland do a lot of re weaving of predictions along the way when it was obvious he was wrong wrong wrong..   I can still hear him chiding the church for misunderstanding what he said and they did not listen.  It was "spiiiiirrrrritual !...stupid."  Actually this is what the author of Peter is doing as well.  Same ploy and same inability to just say that he was wrong.  But he will trade "soon" and "shortly" for another word that is just as good as motivator to not scoff or mock.

We also see the author of Peter uses the same "God is giving us more time," excuse and again something that was never brought up about God wanting all to be saved etc...until he had to make an excuse for God and the slowness of soon and shortly.  I'm surprised the author did not say that God was giving "you brethren" more time to get your wicked act together and "make it into the kingdom."  

thief photo: Thief Thief.jpg


10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

 
So now the Second Coming is not soon or shortly, it is going to be sneaky and you better watch out, you better not cry, you better not pout , I'm telling you why....Jesus Christ is coming suddenly.  The thief might come neither soon or shortly, but he comes sneaky and suddenly. Brilliant move!  Suddenly is like soon or shortly but unknowable.  Great compromise of the error!  Members and those who notice that none of what the ministry predicts comes  true are turned into scoffers and mockers and the ministry gets to reset and redefine the clock. 

Alas the heavens have not passed in 2000 years nor the elements destroyed with intense heat.  All these people are dust and the beat goes on.  

So, those who notice that neither Church , Pastor or even Bible predictions came true in any sense humans would think they would is not scoffing or mocking.  It is noticing the obvious and speaking up.  Ministers and churches get scoffed at and mocked when they keep up the charade, change the rules as they go and blame the listeners for not listening.  We scoff at those who take  offices and titles unending to themselves and preach themselves way too much.  

The author of Peter simply could not bring himself to say "I don't know," or "We were wrong."  Modern day seers would choke on those words I expect.  He had to mystify and redefine the words and then blame those who noticed calling them scoffers and mockers.   And so it still is today.  

No....those who notice what the ministers, apostles, witnesses , watchers and non prophets say which is either silly, stupid or insane are not in one bit of trouble with the Deity.  They don't scoff or mock.  Ok well they do but it is the church and the leaders that provide the ammo.  We just notice it....I suppose it could be viewed as actively working out one's own salvation and not being snookered. 





contact Dennis at: denniscdiehl@AOL.com



Friday, May 31, 2013

Dave Pack Now Believes HWA Predicted His End Time Superfantabulous Church



Every time Dave opens his mouth now something crazier comes out than the last time. This time he is using a supposed conversation that Dale Schurter had with HWA prior to his death.  How suspicious it all sounds.  Dave is placing his trust in a man who has stabbed two different COG corporations in the back over the years.  Can Schurter really be trusted?  Here's a man who while on WCG payroll connived and plotted to move over to UCG when it started.  Then while on UCG payroll he starts negotiating with Dave Pack for his salary.  Once that was secured he jumps ship from UCG to RCG.  Talk about a snake in the grass!


The following is a recounting of an extraordinary conversation (several hours duration) that Mr. Dale Schurter and his wife had with Mr. Armstrong less than a year before his death in January 1986. It confirms Mr. Armstrong’s belief that God’s Church would later do an even BIGGER WORK—that it would “prophesy again” fulfilling Revelation 10:11:
“A few months before Mr. Armstrong’s death, my wife and I had the opportunity to spend several hours with Mr. Armstrong in his home in Pasadena. He spoke freely of the mighty work God had commissioned him to accomplish, and related certain heartfelt comments: ‘I can say that I have finished the work God has given me to do, and am at peace about it. I have preached and taken the Gospel of the Kingdom of God into all the world as a witness to all nations.’

“Mr. Armstrong went on to say, ‘I have come to realize there will be an even greater work to follow—to go again, to “prophesy again” to all nations tongues and peoples (Rev. 10:11) before the work of the two witnesses—but with more power and with a stronger warning message. But that will be for others to do.’ He continued, ‘It will be a short work (Rom. 9:27-29), compared with the longer time to complete the work I was given, and it will be cut short. That’s when the Great Tribulation will begin, as will the work of the two witnesses. These will last for three and one-half years, at the end of which Christ will return in glory.’”

Dave Pack: I Have 2 Billion New People That I Can Destroy With My Message



Dave seems to think he has a field ripe for the harvesting with his demonic message.  Since HWA dies over 2 billion new souls have been born with 75 million new people here in the U.S.

Just think how incredibly LUCKY these 2 billion people are to have never heard of HWA!

Ponder the following. Mr. Armstrong has been gone for over 27 years. Earth’s population has grown 44 percent—from under 4.9 billion in 1986 to 7.1 billion today! Then realize that today’s Israelite nations are also much larger than in early 1986. In 2006, the United States reached 300 million, and this just 39 years after reaching 200 million (1967). Under 240 million when Mr. Armstrong died, it is 315 million today, an increase of over 75 million—just in the United States.

Let’s go further. An entire generation has died since the last true warning went to the peoples who heard and read Mr. Armstrong. And therefore incredibly great numbers were not yet born. Those who were alive, but under age 20, did not grasp any message or warning they might have heard. Thus, the GREAT MAJORITY TODAY have never been warned of what is in store for the descendants of all 12 tribes of Israel! Hundreds of millions simply have no idea what is coming on our lands, and on our peoples! Nor have they heard the awesome truth of the gospel of the kingdom of God.

Dave Pack: God Will Soon Dissolve All The Splinters Making My Work ENORMOUS and Wealthy!



Dave Pack is back with his Friday message to his dwindling faithful and for the hundreds of thousands of faithless who think he is bat shit crazy.

God is soon going to dissolve all the splinter groups, who will then be so in awe of him that they will combine all of their assets and resources into Dave's superfantabulous church of god.

Those who are reading these special weekly announcements understand that only a few groups—perhaps four—are making any real attempt at doing God’s Work. However sincere, we saw from Haggai that these are merely doing works of men, not directed by the living Christ who only heads and works through His government and His Church. Also not teaching God’s full truth to the world, these “houses” of men are doing their own “works”—NOT God’s. This is about to change in a BIG WAY! When God dissolves the splinters, combining all resources, HIS ensuing Work will be ENORMOUS—beyond imagination!

Apostle Malm: Polygamy Will Be Allowed In The Millennium



Woo Hoo!  Those of you that have always waned more than one wife you are in luck!  Apostle Malm has decreed that at the end of the tribulation and into the early years of the millennium you will be able to have more than one partner.  I guess the Fundie Mormons had it right after all! Who knew!

Isaiah 4
The tribulation will be especially hard on the men and very many will die, leaving only one man for every seven women.  At the end of the tribulation perhaps God will relax the marriage of monogamy for a short time out of mercy or the people.
4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

When one of his readers called him to task for his comment he had this to say:

James, I do not think such speculation is helpful. This verse is only saying a population imbalance will occur in the last days, and that women will be clamoring for a husband. It does NOT imply God will throw out the 7th commandment. If He were to relax on that, then why not relax on idolatry too? The whole system falls apart if you go by this speculation. Why would God come to the earth to punish man for sin, only to relax on the law which condemns sin? I suggest you remove this statement.

The statement is no new thing as God permitted such practice in ancient times and

. The only issue is the mercy and compassion of God; would he leave 6 of every 7 women marriageless and childless? That is HIS decision to make!
Do you not perform acts of mercy on the Sabbath, breaking the Sabbath because the law of mercy over rides other laws? Did not David eat the Bread of Presence when he needed mercy? I am simply saying; if that is God’s will: Who are we to object.

Christ is boss and he will do his will, he is not concerned with our hang ups and our ideas. Personally I hope to be among the chosen and would probably be dead anyway, so this is not an issue for me.
Apostle Malm then ads this. I would never have thought I would agree with him on something but he is right!
It is because of such issues [there are many in the COG who still have HWA's Quaker hang ups regarding matters of sex and marriage, even though HWA himself totally reversed his attitude after Loma died. HWA's early positions dictated to him by Loma, has caused immeasurable unhappiness and suffering in very many marriages in the WCG and LCG] that I posted the comment and it will stay.

Ron Weinland's Preachers And Men Not Happy With Laura And Other Women Being Over Them



It looks like Weinerdude is in a pickle right now.  Since he is a felon and in prison for the next three years, he has placed Laura and a few other women in high positions of leadership.  Laura is even one of the two witnesses witlesses. Some of the ministry and regular members who are men are chaffing under this power structure and Ron needs to set them straight:

This example can be likened today to what God has revealed to His Church about true freedom that is being restored to women by removing them from the kind of bondage they have been experiencing in the world for the past 6,000 years. In the Church now and in the Millennium that is coming, women are not second-class citizens who can be treated as inferior by men or looked upon by men as being in subjection to them. Such subjection would only be the case if it were on a spiritual plane when the need to administer God’s government might arise. In like fashion, there will be women who may also need to administer God’s government toward a man who in turn should be in subjection to God in such a case. In the Church now and into the future, God is removing the “curse” that started in the beginning due to the sins of Adam and Eve.

Some in the Church are still battling this and being tried by it, although this truth began to be delivered to the Church more than two years ago. This affects how husbands sometimes “think” it is permissible to treat a woman in a controlling manner as though they are in subjection to such demands or in how they might speak in a commanding manner when they have no right to do so. Not only is there no right to do so, but it is also sin. Even a few (a very few) men in God’s ministry are dealing with this new and “present truth” in how they are responding to a woman who is over them in the administration of the government of God in the Church. In some cases, there is more than one woman over them as a matter of God’s spiritual government. The one whom a few are having a difficulty with is ordained a prophet, as Deborah was a prophet. These few must fight this battle (if it is one for them), just as some in the early Church had to fight their wrong thinking concerning the gentiles. A person must change in their thinking as God reveals more truth to them in order for them to come into greater unity and oneness with Him. Such changes of new revelation of truth often test and try people as to their faithfulness to God and their willingness to follow when, where, and how He leads.


Thursday, May 30, 2013

Bob Thiel: U.S. Is Doomed But Don't Worry, Jesus Will Return In a Few Years



The non-ordained self-appointed false prophet Thiel has the catch-all answer to the financial problems in the United States and elsewhere in the world.  Of course it is the standard Armstrongite viewpoint that God hates everyone in the world except for the 1,700 people in RCG and the 15 members in Arroyo Grande.  Then he tries to end with a word of encouragement.  Doesn't it make you want to know his jesus?

This means than a lot even what wealth is left, has actually been debased.  Ultimately the US dollar will truly crash.

Until then, it means that economic recoveries will be shaky and that many people will likely not handle the next downturn as well.  Furthermore, various tax and other policies from Washington, D.C. are further discouraging the accumulation and preservation of wealth.  That too, does not bode well for the economy of the USA.

Unless the USA changes, it will be doomed. However, Jesus will return a few years after that and establish the Kingdom of God. Until then, work, pray, and try to best manage whatever household wealth you may have.  Whether you are in the USA or not.

Jesus, Don't Let Me Die Before I've Had Sex




Fundamentalism has always looked at sex as bad.  For us, all we have to do is look at 
Herbert Armstrong and his silly books,  
God Speaks Out On The New Morality 
and the  
Missing Dimension in Sex.
Though these two books never stopped the leaders from committing incest, adultery, rapes, sexual stalkings, porn addiction and other improprieties.

Despite the railing by Rod Meredith and many others, the youth in the COG were sexual animals at times. Imperial and Ambassador students were like breeding rabbits.  There wasn't a nook or cranny on either campus that wasn't used for in flagrante delctio

Why hasn't the church ever dared to think differently about premarital sex?

is a documentary examining the idealism and silence embedded 
in the sexual teachings of evangelical churches. 
Through the stories of gay, straight, celibate & sexually active churchgoers 
we explore the hopes, fears, and prayers of real people 
as they learn to reconcile their faith and sexualities.

How Dave Pack's Enormous Money Issues Can Be Solved

Since Dave is a people counting person and a money worshiper, this would be a perfect fit for him. Perhaps he can offer classes at his new school on Christian gambling.

The Mind Blowing Significance of Dave Pack and the Restored Church of God



A reader comments on Dave:

And let us understand world history in this theology version. So God the Father sent Jesus Christ to be born of the Virgin Mary to die on a stake to build a church with the 12 most famous men in religious history - The Apostles - but somehow in just years lost the Gospel for 1900 years to raise up Herbert Armstrong to build an empire in California that would completely collapse and get sold off and have next to no impact in the grand scheme of religious history - just so the focus of all of church history and the rest of the book of Acts in this 21st century can center on one man in a little Ohio town to center all of the spiritual efforts on Earth on a little town in NE Ohio building an office complex and a half hour cable program headquarters next to some transmission lines and a four way intersection near some retail stores? Oh, how the people of that town must completely miss the shining beacon of all of salvation? Oh those people getting gas at the gas station, how sorry I feel for them! They miss the amazing, incredible center of all the action of the Universe - right there! Oh, but you might get called on for trespass to approach it and talk to the most Important Man In The World without an invite maybe and possibly, so it's been reported? What a strange universe Armstrongism is it seems? But it seems less then 2,000 people get it? Right? Is this how it is? ;)

Confessions of a Former Quasi-Fundamentalist






Confessions of a Former Quasi-Fundamentalist


When I was a child, I recall my mother taking pains that I should only be sent to "fundamental" elementary schools. At the age of six or seven, I had no idea what "fundamental" meant, and being curious, I asked her what made a fundamental school different from other schools. I honestly don’t recall her answer. Whatever it was, it doesn’t really matter now anyway. The point is, because of this, I had always kind of assumed that my parents identified themselves in some general sort of way as being aligned with fundamentalism, so I figured I was too. The other day I realized that I had never known what the "fundamentals" of fundamentalism were. Being curious, I decided to find out.

In 1874, Charles Hodge, an influential American Presbyterian got right down to brass tacks and said that evolution was just atheism in disguise, and therefore can never be reconciled with Christianity. In 1895, the Niagara Bible Conference whittled down the earlier Niagara Creed to just five "fundamentals." In 1915 a series of 90 essays expounding these five doctrines were collected into an anthology which was distributed far and wide, entitled, "The Fundamentals: A Testimony to the Truth." A movement was born. Their "truth," of course, was predicated upon the preeminent "fundamental" doctrine: literal biblical inerrancy.

The term "fundamentalism" was originally coined by militant conservative Christians as a direct reference to their five fundamentals. Reeling from evolution, conservatives were fighting to prevent their "truth" from being "eroded" by how scientists were putting together the evidence. (If scientists are biased by atheism, Christians are biased by theism. Either way, I don’t think that anything which really is true has anything to fear from evidence.) In their desperation, the fundamentals were enlisted as a weapon to attack, not atheists, but other Christians, by distinguishing "genuine" ones from imposters. Fundamentalists began trying to drum out popular liberal ministers and take back "their" congregations. The liberals fought back, asserting they were no less sincere, merely prepared to face facts that fundamentalists were not.

The Worldwide Church of God (WCG) in which I was raised had a list of "fundamental" beliefs too. Even though I had never connected the dots, I had definitely been taught to believe all five of these "fundamentals." And all that unchristian behavior in the name of "truth" sure sounded like my church. For a little while, I thought that settled it. I had, in fact, been raised in a type of fundamentalism.

But the five fundamentals are very basic; they’re just the things you’re supposed to believe about Jesus’ birth, life, death, and resurrection. It’s the bare minimum just to accept Jesus as your personal savior, which is all that’s "necessary for salvation." It doesn’t even include the trinity. The five fundamentals aren’t about doing anything. They don’t mention the ten commandments, showing up for church, or even giving money. This is where fundamentalism and WCG definitely parted ways. In fact, one of my pastors called it "Christianity Lite." That’s when I remembered that I hadn’t even been raised on the same theological planet as your typical Protestant fundamentalist. In WCG, there was a lot of stuff you had to do to continually prove to god, or at least to the other people at church (same difference) that your Christian credentials were current. I wasn’t so sure I had been a fundamentalist anymore. Fundamentalists are mainstream and I’d always been an ultra-conservative legalist.

It’s odd, coming from an ultra-conservative legalist background, to think of mere "conservative fundamentalists" going on the warpath over so little. From the perspective I’m accustomed to, there just wasn’t that much difference between a conservative, a liberal, and an atheist. Yet the reason why the term  "fundamental" has been used as a label and stuck all over other militant and violent religious movements is because militantism is original to the fundamentalist movement. Herbert Armstrong may have been militant, regularly savaging Protestantism, but militantism was never a WCG church value. Sure, we were judgmental hypocrites, but we weren’t militant. In this sense, I was never a fundamentalist at all.

Since September 11, the terms "radical," "extreme," and "fundamentalism" have all gotten a lot of bad press and their connotations have dipped into an even steeper nosedive. People have come to associate them with violent militantism. But strictly in terms of their definitions, radical, just means continually reconnecting back to your roots, and extreme just means, outside the mainstream. Had I been raised to be a radical extremist? By the dictionary definitions, yes, but by their connotations, definitely not. All these labels were like the sticky nametags that peel off your shirt and fall on the ground by themselves.

But there’s a lot of semantic wiggle room going on within the sanctuaries of fundamentalism. How different were we really from our fundamentalist neighbors? The word "necessary" is a very telling word. It’s a word that gets right to the heart of things. My first recollection of the word "necessary" being used in a theological sense was during the Tkach days of WCG. To soften the blows of their doctrinal changes, they simply moved unwanted doctrines from the "necessary for salvation" category over to the "unnecessary" category. They’ve been milking that conceit for a long time now, claiming that doctrines, especially ones like tithing, aren’t "necessary for salvation," but must still be practiced anyway. Of course, that immediately begged several questions. Why should anyone ever do unnecessary things? What’s the difference between "unnecessary" and "garbage"? If something really is "unnecessary", can’t we just dispose of it altogether? That’s what normal people do. Legalism didn’t have these problems because there was only one bin.

As I looked at what fundamentalist churches were saying, I realized I’d been silly in thinking the Tkaches were so original that they invented this way of talking out of both sides of their mouth about doctrine. How many fundamentalist churches load you down with all sorts of "unnecessary" mandatory things you don’t have to but have to do? What’s the difference between "mandatory unnecessary" and "necessary"? In fact, what’s the difference between "mandatory unnecessary" and "legalism"? But legalism or fundamentalism, everything was always set in terms of one thing: salvation. But why do people wad up their panties so much over salvation anyway?

To be saved, or not to be saved, is that the only question? Over time, I came to be against Christianity being formulated solely in terms of the external motivator of salvation, as though "genuine" Christians would never consider doing the right thing simply because it is right. Curiously absent from everyone’s fundamentals is the New Testament command of Paul, "Imitate me just as I also imitate Christ." Preachers often say things such as, "If you’ve accepted Jesus in your heart, then you’ll want to … " or "Jesus gave his life for you, now you have to … " But if I still don’t want to then I don’t have to, right? I suppose this is where the guilt trips begin in earnest. Whatever. All I want is salvation, and I want to get it at the lowest possible cost. They call that "rational self-interest," right? Well, not necessarily. How it’s formulated has everything to do with what you perceive to be in your "rational self-interest."

Regardless of how you slice it or what terms you put it in, it’s hard to escape the fact that anything worthwhile, whether it’s being a Christian, just living ethically, or any human endeavor, will incur human costs regardless of accounting tricks. The bottom line won’t ever be zero. If the bottom line human cost to be a Christian is zero, then it doesn’t mean anything to be one, although, I’ll allow that could just be my dyed-in-the-wool legalism showing through.

Back when I still believed in salvation, the mainstream theology always seemed like an à la carte buffet theory of Christianity. You can place any items you want into the bag individually and pay for only what you want. So you can put some free salvation in a bag and just walk out. Show up on Christmas and Easter, if you feel like it, and forget about that imitation Jesus—that shit’s REALLY expensive. This is one explanation of the classic self-righteous person whose routine behavior is anything but Christlike.

But our legalist theology wasn’t any better. Believing that everything was necessary for salvation just make people look for ways to rationalize deserving it at a discount. Legalism might have had a higher cost, but still, no line item for imitation Jesus. Either way, you wind up with the same self-righteousness and similar behavior. Fundamentalists probably had an edge over us in the behavior department. Maybe the differences between legalists and fundamentalists were more about semantics than substance. Maybe we weren’t quite so far away from our Protestant neighbors as I thought.

What I’ve come to think makes a lot more sense is the homeowner model. Christianity is like buying a home. Salvation is the house, and imitating Christ is the land. You can buy an empty lot without a house on it, but you can’t have a house, not even a free one, without having a lot. There are no castles in the sky. So even if you want to say salvation is free, which Paul definitely does say, it’s a package deal, not à la carte, and there’s a total cost at the bottom of the receipt. In fact, by virtue of the fact that salvation is free, the cost is all an investment in your own equity that’s yours to keep. Many Christians view it merely as an expense to be minimized, like rent. If you formulate it this way, it changes what you perceive to be in your "rational self-interest."

I had always assumed that the aspirational teachings were the original kernel of Christianity, or for that matter, of any credible religion. I still believe in the inherent value of Jesus’ teachings, which is what kept me tied into organized religion for as long as I was. But I’m not sure how fundamental acting like Christ ever was to fundamentalism. Despite Herbert Armstrong’s bluster about preaching Christ’s gospel instead of a gospel about Christ, I know Jesus’ teachings were never fundamental to WCG. What was "necessary" wound up being arbitrary while the aspirational was relegated to the "unnecessary" bin.

I’m finally left with the impression that much of what’s considered "fundamental" by fundamentalism and Armstrongism alike might be so many barnacles that have come to encrust more helpful, and presumably more original themes. Moreover, I feel maybe organized Christianity has deteriorated over the centuries until all that’s left is barnacles. I know that once I got to the tootsie roll center of Armstrongism, I was disappointed. What I found was a hollow void where I would have expected to find the original kernel. Armstrongism certainly had everything except the one thing I was most looking for. Sometimes stripping off barnacles isn’t enough.

I was never in the fold of mainstream Christianity, to be sure. But still I find it ironic that to follow Jesus’ teachings today, 2,000 years later, may in fact, also put one outside of what is today considered mainstream Christianity. Maybe I’m too pessimistic, but I’m not convinced it’s even possible to follow Jesus’ teachings in modern organized religion at all. If any of this is true, then by the dictionary definition, to follow Jesus would be both radical and extreme. But one thing it would not be is militant.

I guess it’s not that important to figure out if I ever qualified as a fundamentalist or not. "Ultra-conservative legalist" probably has a better connotation in the media these days anyway even if only by a degree. More importantly, going by those five fundamentals, I’m definitely disqualified now. If the Judeo-Christian god were the real deal, he would definitely not have muddied the water with salvation, but instead, kept that a secret, as a nice little surprise. There would probably be fewer Christians that way, but being one would mean a lot more.

There are other movements, such as Christian atheism or Jesuism that try to follow Jesus without bribes such as salvation, or many of the other barnacles inherent to organized Christianity I suppose. I don’t know how organized any of these movements are. Maybe they have their own barnacles. In any case, they’re more accurate labels of where I’ve come to find myself. I’m definitely not an ultra-conservative legalist anymore. Maybe now I’m a softer, gentler radical extremist, just because, you know, I believe that being good to your neighbor strictly for its own sake is the right thing to do? I guess I'd rather have an empty lot than a castle in the sky. If a free prefab house shows up later, fabulous, but I'm not convinced anybody's going to get one of those. Leaving that entirely out of the equation certainly keeps one's panties less bunched. I think Jesus had fresh panties, don't you?

Even if I wasn’t a fundamentalist, I still used to be one of those people who refused to deal with the facts. Now I can’t help but think that maybe "erosion" is just "correction." Religion’s problems with science aren’t going to go away anytime soon. In fact, I wonder what evidence scientists will come up with next that fundamentalists and ultra-conservative legalists alike will refuse to deal with? It’s a little hard not to come to the conclusion that just maybe the liberals were onto something. Something like, I don’t know, being able to admit when you’re wrong? If that’s a vice, deal me in and pour me a drink.

I guess I have some right to be upset. None of those fundamental beliefs protected me from the evils of evolution and liberalism the way they were supposed to. Maybe that’s a good thing?

Head Usher