Saturday, September 27, 2014

Was Dibar Apartian Church Shopping Prior To His Death?



Bitter Bob Thiel had this on his blog recently in yet  another jab at Rod Meredith.  It is about Dibar Apartian and how he was talking to various other COG's prior to his death about possibly jumping ship.  This is similar to his previous church jumps as he schemed to leave WCG when Meredith started the Global Church of God.  Then he was part of the gang that stabbed Raymond McNair in the back and helped form the Living Church of God with Rod Meredith, again. 

For a man who supposedly knew BETTER and knew how much Herbert Armstrong disliked Meredith as a leader, he sure was happy to play the lap poodle to Meredith over the last twenty some years. 

The almighty paycheck trumps honor every time.


Mr. Apartian also knew that Herbert W. Armstrong was vehemently against Rod Meredith being the human leader of the church. Mr. Apartian always felt uneasy about following Rod Meredith, since he knew HWA's feelings about that.

Mr. Apartian was also having private meetings, near the end of his life, with ministers of different Church of God groups-one of those ministers, whom Mr. Apartian met with, told me about their meetings in person. Those private meetings were about Mr. Apartian leaving LCG.

However, due to his rapidly failing health and a few other reasons, he stayed with LCG.

He did make it very clear though, that LCG was heading the wrong direction, in terms of doctrine and other major decisions as well.

Mr. Apartian was also very upset about Rod Meredith's lack of compassion and concern for him, while he was near his death.

Rod Meredith had heard about some of Mr. Apartian's revealing comments about LCG, and Meredith was not happy.

Therefore, Rod Meredith did not visit much with Mr. Apartian towards the end, and Meredith even discouraged other LCG members from visiting with Mr. Apartian-worried that more negative facts about LCG would "get out."

20 comments:

Anonymous said...


"Was Dibar Apartian Church Shopping Prior To His Death?"


This seems to be one of the big, unfortunate problems with a life spent in the so-called Churches of God (COGs). It seems like you continually have to shop for a new church until the day that you drop dead. The so-called COG shopping experience gives a whole new, sadder, more tragic meaning to the saying, "shop till you drop."

Furthermore, though false advertising full of great claims and promises abounds, you cannot return the defective merchandise, and you certainly cannot get your money back.

Byker Bob said...

This latest material from Thiel is all valueless speculation, nothing but gossip. Without supporting documentation, it has the aura of transferral of Thiel's own feelings and belief to an arguably well-respected dead man, to telegraph a message to Rod Meredith. Self-serving psychological warfare generated by someone who calls himself a prophet, despite the fact that Biblical prophets are not described as having played such games.

The word "pseudoepigraphical" would seem to bear some conceptual similarity to Thiel's methodology. What a loser

BB

John D. said...

What is the story behind the Global split? How was McNair stabbed in the back?
Never heard the truth on it at all.
Help me make up my mind. I am in the air right now as to stay, go.

Anonymous said...

How easy it is to speak for the dead. Tkach used to speak for HWA if I remember correctly, saying HWA wanted to change things. So to speak for Apartian is a joke.

Anonymous said...

anon 4:52 if you are "in the air" right now and need somebody to shed light on the facts of flawed human being's behavior in order to make a choice on whether

or not to follow them, you will never find fulfillment; but if you follow God instead of men, i.e. follow the principles of the bible, there can be no doubts.

Anonymous said...

If Meredith wasn't the man to lead a church why did Thiel follow him to begin with? It's only after he lost his comfortable little niche that he brings this out- pretty damn convenient.

Anonymous said...

Here's some of the story about The McNair and Meredith Global/Living split. After Meredith took all the money from McNair's Global COG, it went into deep financial ruin. http://www.cesnur.org/testi/Journal.htm

Anonymous said...

"anon 4:52 if you are "in the air" right now and need somebody to shed light on the facts of flawed human being's behavior in order to make a choice on whether or not to follow them, you will never find fulfillment; but if you follow God instead of men, i.e. follow the principles of the bible, there can be no doubts."

Umm. So how does one actually "find fulfillment" by following "god" instead of "men"?

How do I know if I'm "following god" or "following men"? How does one tell the difference? It all looks like men following men to me... ???

There's as many interpretations of the bible as there are christians. How do I know which man's interpretation of the bible is the "right" one. Or should I lean to my own understanding and come up with my own—after lots of prayer, of course... ???

And there's lots of other people with other gods who promise the same as you promise that your god is promising. Maybe I'd be better off trying my luck with Krishna or Allah? How can you be so sure you've got the "right" "god"???

This "place" from which you say "there can be no doubts," well, I have a lot of doubts that such a place exists, or if it did, how I could ever be sure I'd found it, even if I was standing smackdab in the middle of it...

Frankly, I have doubts about your lack of doubts...



old EXPCG hag said...

I thought Christ's followers (people with the holy spirit living in them) are God's church.

So everyone can stop shopping now!

Anonymous said...

Quote

".. but if you follow God instead of men, i.e. follow the principles of the bible, there can be no doubts."

If you follow many of the principles of the Bible you will do some terribly stupid things and be left with plenty of doubts...

Anonymous said...

Dibar Apartian was promoting LCG and drawing people into it until a month or two before his death.

If he was privately telling people "LCG isn't God's Church" or "LCG isn't a Godly church," then this makes him a terrible hypocrite, whose opinion about Meredith and Global is not to be valued.

Byker Bob said...

The problem facing people in the air from an ACOG splinter is that in many cases that they have allowed Armstrongism to define for them the parameters for what the true church would look like today. Way back in the day, HWA defined this, and then slid his own church in there as providing the total solution. This is no different from a company allowing a vendor to define and write the bid specs for the aquisition of capital equipment, based soley on his own product's features. The people who became members never questioned the definition or those parameters. In most cases, any ACOG splinter is going to roughly conform to these even today, which is why there is so much splinter-hopping, and why the stricter groups are able to exert so much power in the lives of their members.

I'd just throw this out as a suggestion. Don't assume that those parameters are accurate. They started out as one person's opinions. Read widely amongst the sabbatarians and non-sabbatarians. Then set your own parameters. There are some excellent articles on the "As Bereans Did" website, and there are numerous, deep-thinking Christian authors who don't call themselves apostles or prophets, and who present just as strong, or stronger arguments for their faith as HWA or any of the splinter leaders ever did for Armstrongism.

The last time I checked, there was a very accurate, and thought-provoking statement on the topic of a true church right below the masthead on the opening page of the Painful Truth website (www.hwarmstrong.com). Good luck in your search. I hope you find the answers you are seeking, but this time, you take control. Don't let others do that for you.

BB

Connie Schmidt said...

When going church shopping , make sure you have and use your "Money Back Guarantee Coupon" !

RSK said...

Given Thiel's history of distorting things where his own self-importance is involved (Mr. Bonjour comes to mind as well as his many supposed conversations with Meredith), I suspect that he is reframing some aside with Apartian to his benefit. That's assuming he hasn't just completely invented the story and stuck it on Apartian just so the latter, being dead, can't argue the matter.

But more to the point, isn't it all essentially a pissfest if you're not an LCG member?

Anonymous said...

following God is about obeying the Command "you shall love your neighbor as yourself"; if one wants to question that simple Command then that's their choice....live with it.

Anonymous said...

"This guy said this about that guy."

"I heard so-and-so say that he heard that guy say that he thought such-and-such about this other person."

"I remember a conversation where so-and-so indicated that he was sure he knew . . . ."

OH, SHUT UP ALL OF YOU!

AS IF any of what any "minister" said at anytime past is worth considering for 15 seconds as something to base a life decision upon!!!

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:04, you asked:
"...If Meredith wasn't the man to lead a church why did Thiel follow him to begin with?..."

That is a very good question! Many years ago, in 2002, I asked Bob Thiel: "would you please name for me some examples of knowledge that the Living cog has grown in since its existence?"

And on 11/12/02 you sent me an email where you gave only one example and said: "...That one is easy. Dr. M's emphasis of Galatians 2:20 and its ramifications would be one..."

What kind of an answer was that? It was just a comment...not an example!

Later, on 4/27/03, I wrote Bob Thiel again and said:

"...What has LCG learned "new" since the death of HWA? I ask that b/c it appears that most xcogs are "stuck in a rut" since his death...or going "backwards" in the direction JWT Senior led WCG...and Joe Jr. continues to do..."

And what was Bob's response to that? Bob wrote: "...I have repeatedly explained to you areas where I feel that LCG has grown, so I will not repeat them again...."

That was just another lie. There were no areas and no examples given.

To my way of thinking Living has stagnated and/or gone backwards. I finally wrote Bob Thiel one last time about Living's spiritual growth:

"...Hi Bob,

Bob, once upon a time I asked you to "...please name for me some examples of knowledge that the Living cog has grown in since its existence?..."

And guess what? You could not do it. Instead you came back not with "some examples" but with one comment. You said: "That one is easy. Dr. M's emphasis of Galatians 2:20 and its ramifications would be one...."

And that was all you wrote about "some examples," and citing Galatians 2:20 doesn't say much. Oh, the verse is true, but where does that "faith" of Gal 2:20 come from? It does not come inherently from "self." One has no faith unless God gives it in the first place, but God is working a perfect plan of salvation and that He does give out that faith by measure. That is God's choice. And He intends to give out that faith by measure to all mankind, but it'll be each man in his own order as God so determines. And that's in Rom 12:3...and :6 if you want another verse.

But anyway, you are probably not interested in that. You have still, to my knowledge, only given one example. If I missed something, then write me to explain what I missed. I see your mentioning of Gal 2:20; that's it!..."

Well, if Bob Thiel couldn't say much about Living's growth over a decade ago, then might that say something about his own growth? During that time, Bob and Living thought the Laodiceans were elsewhere....

John




Anonymous said...

Boy, Bob must really be bitter toward Rod Meredith because he has dropped the "Mr.". In this passage it's always "Mr. Apartian" but "Rod Meredith" or "Meredith".

That's the unkindest cut of all.

Anonymous said...

RSK, you asked: "...But more to the point, isn't it all essentially a pissfest if you're not an LCG member?..."

Is what you have in mind anything like the following story portrays with human beings?

"The Aisle Seat

Two Radical Arab Terrorists boarded a flight out of London . One took a window seat and the other sat next to him in the middle seat.... Just before takeoff, a U.S. Marine sat down in the aisle seat. After takeoff, the Marine kicked his shoes off, wiggled his toes and was settling in when the Arab in the window seat said, ‘I need to get up and get a coke.’ ‘Don’t get up,’ said the Marine, ‘I’m in the aisle seat, ‘I’ll get it for you.’

As soon as he left, one of the Arabs picked up the Marines shoe and spat in it. When the Marine returned with the coke, the other Arab said, ‘That looks good, I’d really like one, too.’ Again, the Marine obligingly went to fetch it. While he was gone the other Arab picked up the Marines other shoe and spat in it.. When the Marine returned, they all sat back and enjoyed the flight.

As the plane was landing, the Marine slipped his feet into his shoes and knew immediately what had happened. He leaned over and asked his Arab neighbors... ‘Why does it have to be this way?’ ‘How long must this go on? This fighting between our nations? This hatred? This animosity? This spitting in shoes and pissing in cokes?’ "

John

Connie Schmidt said...

Im sure Bob is dropping Apartians name to try to reach and obtain those in French speaking Africa, where Apartian was admired by the brethren.