Wednesday, December 24, 2014

The Absurd and Fanciful Excuses the Churches of God Come Up With To Not Keep Christmas



Redfox has great patience to sit and read through the drivel that the Philadelphia Church of God prints as if it were well researched and educated theology.  Ive never been lucky to get past the first two pages. This time he has highlighted the fraudulent booklet printed by the PCG: The Truth About Christmas.

He writes:


It is important to understand that the reasons presented by HWA for abandoning Christmas are wrong and often quite badly misinformed. Both booklets, for instance, insist that Christmas is a continuation of the Babylonian religion deifying Nimrod and Semiramis. It is never admitted in either booklet that this idea comes from Alexander Hislop's book, The Two Babylons, which was made in the 1850s. It was an anti-Catholic polemic designed to vilify the Catholic Church and the Papacy. That book has been proven to be nonsense.

As Bereans Did has done great work in documenting just how absurd and fanciful many of the justifications for shunning Christmas are. Here is some of what As Bereans Did has said on this matter.

Over the years, As Bereans Did has done some great research on Christmas. Like "The Plain Truth About December 25th" which makes the case about why the December 25th date likely did not originate in paganism after all. "Jeremiah 10 and Christmas Trees" which makes the case on why Jeremiah was referring to idol worship, not Christmas trees. "On Nimrod and Christmas Trees" part 1, part 2 and part 3, which make the case on how the origin of Christmas Trees has been distorted. "Nimrod's Birthday Was January 6?" which makes the case that the claims on Nimrod's birthday are faulty. And "Quotes Before Christmas" which makes the case that most of the claims the COGs make about Christmas' pagan origins are based on questionable research. And we haven't even found the time to explain how winter was a great time of year for sheep to be in the fields of Bethlehem (see point 5 of the linked article). 
So there is no good reason for a Christian to shun Christmas. In fact this teaching in effect served mainly to socially isolate HWA's followers from mainstream society in order to make them socially dependent upon the group of HWA's followers. The abusive way this teaching has been used to isolate followers from family and friends is just one of many persuasive reasons why the COG groups are often identified as cults.

HWA's Christmas ban was also a way to get more money from his followers who no longer spent money on Christmas, as HWA obliquely reveals himself in his booklet.
But I can say by years of experience, as I believe most pastors and ministers can say, that when the month of December rolls around, nearly all professing Christians forget to give gifts to Christ and His cause [HWA's group, Radio Church of God renamed in 1968 as Worldwide Church of God] almost altogether. December often is the most difficult month to keep Christ's work [HWA's cult] from dying. People are too busy trading gifts back and forth among themselves to think of Him and His Work [HWA's cult], it seems. Then, in January and even into February it seems they have to catch up from what they spent for Christmas, so they seldom get back to normal in supporting Christ and His Work [HWA's cult] before March. (HWA, p. 19.)
That is the real reason HWA banned Christmas. Herbert Armstrong wanted more money.

You can read and follow Red's blog here:  No Good Reason to Ban Christmas for Christians: Reading PCG's Plagiarized Denunciation of Christmas

58 comments:

Anonymous said...

The only reason I don't keep Christmas is because God said 'don't worship me as the nations worship their gods.' Pretty cut and dry, Christmas is a man made day to worship Christ. (who cares which man made it or how)

Anonymous said...

Actually, I don't need an excuse to not do something...

It's up to you to justify why you do something....(you don't have to justify anything to me because I don't care what days other people observe)

So I guess the proper title for your post should be "The Absurd and Fanciful Excuses Some People Come Up With To Keep Christmas"

I guess you think that repeating the lie often enough will transform it into truth.

I feel bad for those caught up in the Christmas trap, I can tell that they aren't truly happy but they do it because it's tradition and their families/friends will think poorly of them if they don't particitpate.

The day is coming when they will be set free though, and what a great day it will be.

Sweetblood777 said...

Really when one thinks of it, the statement by HWA, 'We cannot, will not, go contrary to God's Word by BEGGING FOR MONEY OVER THE AIR!' in one of his many money begging letters, is that if he did, he would turn off many of his listeners, for who in their right mind would lock themselves in chains in order to give month after month, money to this man?

Fact is, most wouldn't. The only reason he succeeded, is that they were caught as the fish line was slowly reeled in, inch by inch, until they were fully in the boat and could not bring themselves to jump out.

HWA is a Hebrew word which means to covet. And he certainly lived up to his initials. He was the type of person to take the last penny of everyone he met. He lived like a king and couldn't care less how he achieved it.

It is very difficult to imagine HWA being accepted into the Kingdom. The same could be said for those that are using the same tactics of obtaining wealth for themselves.


Anonymous said...

Probably the worst habit patterns learned from and ingrained by Armstrongism involve an inability to relate to and epathize with the broad majority of other humans surrounding each of us. This was due to the extreme overkill which was HWA's normal approach, guaranteed to marginalize us, and to render us into underachievers and non-participants, even in our own families.

That we should even be conscious of Nimrod, for all intents and purposes a footnote in the Bible, a character about whom one or two vague sentences were written, let alone his testicles as they supposedly relate to Christmas decorations, demonstrates the depths to the absurdity of Armstrongism. This group did not just do research, they built a formidable wall composed of a thin skeleton of facts, and embellished it with unsupportable rumor, fable, and speculation, to obliterate perhaps the most beloved tradition of Christianity. They actually expanded Hislop beyond trashing Catholicism and used his bogus research against mainstream Christianity. Never being loving spiritual guides, they always bypassed the hammer, and escalated directly to an A-bomb where feathers might have been more appropriate.

I don't know that there is any "getting back" to the original feelings all of us once had about Christmas (assuming one was not totally raised in the cult). Whether one celebrates in a secular manner, or as a form of religious expression, or whether one who has left has never really gotten back into the whole thing, for most of us this holiday season has been permanently muted and diminished by Armstrongism, and not for the better. In a sense, it's like WWII era Nazis attempting to be reeducated to love non-Aryans. Some things are just too much of a mind-warp.

Anonymous said...

Hey Anon 1:22, God didn't say that to you. He said it to other people. Pay attention.

And Anon 6:48 (same Anon?), if "it's up to you to justify why you do something," why don't you justify doing what a man told you to do? Because that's the essence of Armstrongism: Herbert said it, I bought it, that's good enough for me.

Step back long enough to realize that his own words indicted him. There was always a true church...yet nobody preached what he did for 1,900 years? Indeed; there was a reason the true church didn't preach what he did. Again: Pay attention.

And Merry Christmas.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Maybe Jelly Bean can come up with an episode of "How the Grinch Stole the Feast of Tabernacles".

Anonymous said...


The Absurd and Fanciful Excuses the SINNERS (Missers Of The Mark) Come Up With To Keep Christmas:

1. Santa Claus knows if you have been naughty or nice.

2. You won't get any presents if you don't believe in Santa Claus.

3. Parents who teach it would not lie to their little children, would they? Or would they???

4. Churches must know what they are doing and must have got it from the Bible, right? Right???

5. Stores want your money, so hand it over.

6. Stores need your money because we are in a recession, so hand it over.

7. You are a fool and as such you need to be parted from your money, so hand it over.

8. Police need more drunk drivers in order to meet their seasonally adjusted ticket quotas.

9. Firefighters need more tree-light fires to extinguish to earn overtime pay.

10. Doctors can afford to buy more golf clubs by treating the broken bones of people who fall off ladders and rooftops while installing lights and decorations.

11. It is another great, lame excuse to party, get drunk, fornicate and commit adultery.

12. Everyone else seems to be observing it, so let us follow the herd of lemmings, because who would ever want to be different, or think for themselves, or have what could possibly be construed as a unique personality?

13. You should always go along with whatever other people want you to go along with because...well...just because.

14. Ignorant and wicked people will be offended if you do not observe it, so you must try to please such people.

15. Satan and his demons will get mad at you and go into satanic fits (really!) if you do not observe it.

16. What else is there to do? You certainly would not ever want to try to remember and observe anything that God ever actually said in the Bible to remember and observe, would you?

These are TWELVE+ (12+) reasons that people can come up with. This represents even more than a good ORGANIZED BEGINNING. Others can now add to this list. With most people getting X-mass day off, what better and more productive thing could there possibly be to do with this otherwise wasted time than to add to this great list? Sometimes it gets too quiet on these silent nights, these unholy and unspecial nights, so I will now turn it over to the Blog dogs...

...I can almost hear the hounds howling already.

Byker Bob said...

Something HWA would never have said: "Brethren, if you don't keep Christmas, don't wear cosmetics, and don't go to the doctor, you'll have more beer money!"

LOL!

BB

Anonymous said...

"The only reason I don't keep Christmas is because God said 'don't worship me as the nations worship their gods.' Pretty cut and dry, Christmas is a man made day to worship Christ. (who cares which man made it or how)"

The biggest problem with this is that Ɉɇ$Ʉ$ "Christ" is a man-made god. The Eleusinian & Dionysian mysteries combined Hellenism with Phoenician religion, Attis & Cybele combined Hellenism with Phrygian religion, Jupiter Dolichenus combined Hellenism with Anatolian religion, Mithraism combined Hellenism with Persian religion, Isis and Osiris combined Hellenism with Egyptian religion, and, finally, "Christianity" is what you get when you combine Hellenism with Jewish religion. (Who cares which man made this "Christ" or how.)

"Actually, I don't need an excuse to not do something...It's up to you to justify why you do something...So I guess the proper title for your post should be 'The Absurd and Fanciful Excuses Some People Come Up With To Keep Christmas'"

Straw man. It's only about the rejection of HWA's false, invented, bogus reasons why christmas is sooooooooo "evil." This has nothing to do with whether one actually keeps christmas or not. I don't. But I'm no longer superstitiously afraid of it either.

"I guess you think that repeating the lie often enough will transform it into truth."

What lie? It seems this site is actually about getting people to stop repeating the lies of HWA, which he sold as "truth."

"I feel bad for those caught up in the Christmas trap, I can tell that they aren't truly happy but they do it because it's tradition and their families/friends will think poorly of them if they don't particitpate."

Projection.

There are many good reasons why one might or might not choose to keep Christmas, but if you accept COG reasoning and don't keep Christmas for the reasons why the COGs say you shouldn't, then you are an idiot.

Anonymous said...

The Christmas-related postings, here at Banned, of those who still bow before Herbert, and worship his image, are coming in especially vehement (and virulent). I hear them thinking, "Well, on this we KNOW we are right, so we're going to tell you so!"

Oh, why don't you shut up?

Christmas has a lot of flotsam attached to it, to be sure, but apply your own standard, Herbert-worshippers -- what happened the night Jesus was born, whatever might have been the time of year? All the Heavenly Host, so many angels it was frighteningly dazzling to the shepherds to see, praised God for Jesus' birth. They CELEBRATED it. (Anyone see anything like that when they attended the "Feast?")

You say Scripture never says we should celebrate Jesus' birth. Do you see how wrong you are, just to begin with this one point?

You are concerned about making yourself feel superior, about holding to the pronouncements of someone long dead, who convinced you he was a great man. You are dedicated to never, never, never admitting you made a mistake about this man. (Finding out I did -- THAT was what set ME free.) Your being hopelessly glued to that position, that conviction makes you lash out.

Jesus came to LOVE us. All I see, in what you say, is HATE. Hate for anyone who thinks differently. Hate for anyone who'd admit a mistake about someone named Herbert. Not only wrong about true Christian attitude and behavior, but, frankly NOT CHRISTIAN at all.



old EXPCG hag said...

I know what the origins of Christmas are and what God says about all that. What's REALLY important is what God says about worshipping him AND IT'S NOT ALL JUST ABOUT GOVERNMENT AS IN PCg!!

...notice all caps which means I am YELLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL

Anonymous said...

i obeyed my father growing up because he was my father: he fed clothed and sheltered me; he made the rules and i followed them; i didnt make up my own rules.

now that i am a man i obey the Rules of our Father in Heaven: He gave no such rule to keep christ mass, but there is the Rule to keep the Feast of Tabernacles...

James said...

Anon,

The Feast of Tabernacles is pagan. Learn more...
http://tinyurl.com/nyeaffc

Anonymous said...

If the biblical Holy Days are so much better to observe than Christmas, why did HWA prefer to EAT AND DRINK ON THE DAY OF ATONEMENT instead of actually observing the Holy Day?

Could it be that he did so for the same reason he TOOK HIS DAUGHTER DOROTHY OUT DANCING ON THE WEEKLY SABBATH?

You'd think that if the ACOG Holy Days were so wonderful, HWA himself might have observed them.

I'll prefer to follow HWA's own example, instead, and DO WHAT I PLEASE on those days.

Anonymous said...

Follow the money - It's always about money, and so was HWA and Co.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:48 bleated: "Actually, I don't need an excuse to not do something..."

... and then proceeds to give us excuses for not doing something.

Love doublespeak.

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:48 whined a rather absurd list of reasons in itself. Let's see...

The Absurd and Fanciful Excuses the SINNERS (Missers Of The Mark) Come Up With To Keep Christmas:

>Santa Claus knows if you have been naughty or nice.

That's a childrens' tradition, and one of debatable believability even by its children believers. If anything, I hear more parents saying they DON'T bother with the Santa myth than ones that do.

> You won't get any presents if you don't believe in Santa Claus.

I've never heard a parent say this to their kid, have you?

> Parents who teach it would not lie to their little children, would they? Or would they???

See #1.

> Churches must know what they are doing and must have got it from the Bible, right?

False presentation. Only the dumbest churchgoer couldn't tell you that it commemorates a biblical event, with associated traditions of varying origin.

> Stores want your money, so hand it over.

I don't even know what this means. The best I can come up with is Herbert moaning about how he didn't get enough contributions during the Xmas season.

> Stores need your money because we are in a recession, so hand it over.

That one sounds like it could apply year-round?

> You are a fool and as such you need to be parted from your money, so hand it over.

You seem to be obsessed with money.

> Police need more drunk drivers in order to meet their seasonally adjusted ticket quotas.

A) Police say they don't have quotas.
B) More than the Fourth of July?

> Firefighters need more tree-light fires to extinguish to earn overtime pay.

You mean like those fires in crowded rental halls on the Holy Days? Seems like an irrelevant excuse.

> Doctors can afford to buy more golf clubs by treating the broken bones of people who fall off ladders and rooftops while installing lights and decorations.

Are you reshingling your roof this year?

> It is another great, lame excuse to party, get drunk, fornicate and commit adultery.

People who enjoy those things don't really neeeeeed excuses. People who are unsociable or ugly or foultempered enough that they're simply unable to do these things might cite that as an excuse. Got any mirrors around?

> Everyone else seems to be observing it, so let us follow the herd of lemmings...

Are you abstaining from Thanksgiving?

> You should always go along with whatever other people want you to go along with because...well...just because.

Are you abstaining from Thanksgiving?

> Ignorant and wicked people will be offended if you do not observe it, so you must try to please such people.

Isn't this just a negative restating of the previous point?

> Satan and his demons will get mad at you and go into satanic fits (really!) if you do not observe it.

Where did you get THIS one?

> What else is there to do? You certainly would not ever want to try to remember and observe anything that God ever actually said in the Bible to remember and observe, would you?

Like the Eucharist? Is that too low a blow?

Anonymous said...

Well, 5:20, that "rule" to keep the Feast of Tabernacles includes bringing food offerings for the first seven days. So unless you do that, pipe down.

Or are you not living in the land that God gave Israel? Again, pay attention.

And 10:48, -- oh, never mind. Your pissy attitude can only drive people away from Armstrongism, so keep up the good work.

old EXPCG hag said...

Anonymous said...

i obeyed my father growing up because he was my father: he fed clothed and sheltered me; he made the rules and i followed them; i didnt make up my own rules.

now that i am a man i obey the Rules of our Father in Heaven: He gave no such rule to keep christ mass, but there is the Rule to keep the Feast of Tabernacles...

December 24, 2014 at 5:20 PM

Just curious...are you just keeping the physical annual holy days God/Christ,(the Word) gave to the Israelites WITHOUT God/Christs's (the Word's) New Testament LOVE teachings, because if you are...YOU JUST DON'T GET IT...notice all caps?

Anonymous said...

It's always the same with those that leave the truth.
How soon you go back to sucking the teat of Nimrod.

December 25, 2014 at 2:12 AM Delete

Anonymous said...

who said i did not follow Christ's teachings on Love? and why is loving Christ, per John 14:15 a problem? and where did Christ Command us to keep christ mass?

people in the west keep non Commanded holidays and traditions for the same reason muslims keep their holidays and traditions or hindus theirs: not because God Commanded them to, but because it is just the popular local custom.

Anonymous said...

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:28-29

and you insults are juvenile and reflect the typical attitude of they in the bible who are in the wrong...

Anonymous said...

"And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles." Zechariah 14:16

He didnt say every one that is left of the jews, but of the nations, including you if you are left.

Anonymous said...

"It's always the same with those that leave 'the truth'. How soon you go back to sucking the teat of Nimrod."

LOL! What garbage. What trite, cliché, and inaccurate Armstrongist catchphraseology. What superstitious, myth-fearing, wrong-headed, upside-down & turned around, bass-ackward, fooled ya twice so shame on you, complete and utter rubbish.

Can't speak for yourself. Can't think for yourself. How sad. A dead man is doing your thinking for you. Which means, among other things, that you couldn't have had a new thought in the last 30 years.

"Nimrod" is probably as real as Gilgamesh. Herbert and his "truth" has made a Nimrod out of you. If he could be laughing at you from beyond the grave, he would be.

"where did Christ Command us to keep christ mass?"

Which christ? There's lots of 'em.

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:28-29"

Newsflash: I don't wanna pretend to be a Jew anymore.

Ed said...

The belief of the COG's that Christmas and easter are not sanctioned by God is true, but there is evidence that the holy days that are mentioned in the old testament had their actual origins in cultures that far predate the old testament. It was common for ancient cultures to have harvest festivals to worship the gods of the harvest. The holy days of the old testament are just a carry over from pagan religious festivals and are just as pagan as Christmas and easter.

old EXPCG hag said...

So all you PCg-ers out there commenting and DISOBEYING GOVERNMENT(Gerald R. Flurry) and any other commenters in other HWA splinter groups:

Come up with an excuse why there is NO LOVE ONLY ABUSE in the PCg and the other clans....hmmmmm?

You are disobeying the only one that matters...>babes in Christ still haven't been weaned!<

old EXPCG hag said...

That reminds me...Where's my child support you non-loving men scammed me and my son out of??????????????

old EXPCG hag said...


James 1:27King James Version (KJV)

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I don't see where it says scam them out of child support, do you?

Do I have to teach you everything?

Anonymous said...

Who blows the Shofar at the Holy
Day celebrations that you claim to observe?

Anonymous said...

Zechariah 14 clearly shows that the Feast will be kept, not christ mass.

Byker Bob said...

They didn't teach us to go to Jerusalem three times per year in "the truth", or to take the tithes or first fruits of our animals with us. They messed up and didn't teach us to build sukkoths for the Feast of Tabernacles! And the ministers who called themselves the Levites so they could receive tithes of our money did not prepare sacrifices, although they taught us from prophecy that the sacrifices would be done again during the millennium.

They let us eat pancakes prepared in restaurants on grills where other peoples' bacon and sausage was also being cooked, allowing for cross contamination. And we were treated in services to many harrangues about "the truth" as to how quickly the end was coming, and the Germans would be here to subjugate and torture our "carnal" friends and relatives whose only crimes were that they were not being "called" at this time.

Examples of the small percentage of people who treated Christmas as an excuse for drunken partying and debauchery were dramatized and repeated, while stories of the same or greater percentage of people in "the truth" indulging in the same lawless revelry at the Feast of Tabernacles was suppressed.

They taught us to have classical music concerts and benefits for wealthy magnates and society members, but not to help the homeless. Speaking of the poor and orphans, they taught us what third tithe was for, and then used it as mad-money for art works and ministerial McMansions, while sending most of the church widows and orphans down to the welfare office to sign up for benefits and food stamps.

They taught us "the truth" about the values God supposedly places on His children based on how He made the race assignments upon their births, and how this is an eternal truth, and even though people become spirit beings in the Kingdom, their race while they were humans will dictate their place in the heirarchy of priesthood or rulership for all eternity in the Kingdom.

"The Truth"???? Leaving "the truth"???? Frankly, I believe that it would have caused much less damage if they had lied to me about Santa Clause rather than about the Germans.

Old anthem from the hippie era (originally suspected as being "the end"):

"When the truth is found to be lies, and all the joy within you dies,
Don't you want somebody to love?
Don't you need somebody to love?
Wouldn't you love somebody to love?
You'd better find somebody to love!"

God is not legalism, which always causes judgmentalism, bad fruits, and elitism. God is love. Love is the law behind the law, and has been expressed in different ways for different dispensations.
Learn it! Live it! Love it!

BB

Anonymous said...

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-verizon&source=android-browser&q=nimrod+birthday

christ mass is pagan: learn more. See anybody can proclaim one thing or another.

Anonymous said...


Some people try to use the story in the Bible in Luke 2:8-20 about the angels announcing the birth of Jesus to some shepherds to try to justify their tradition of supposedly observing Jesus' birthday. How wrong they are! The Bible nowhere says that the angels were setting an example for us to follow year after year as some sort of custom or tradition. Of course, the Bible nowhere says to observe Jesus' birthday at all. If we were supposed to observe Jesus' birthday, the Bible would no doubt have told us when it was so we would know when to observe it. The very fact that the Bible does not say exactly when it was indicates that we are not meant to observe it.

The Bible records that the LORD said to Moses, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of the LORD, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies'” (Leviticus 23:2, NIV). These festivals of God's, in three different seasons (lunar months) of the year, with their seven annual Sabbaths, are listed in Leviticus 23. Popular modern customs like Christmas are not in this list. One custom that is listed is called the Passover, which Jesus and his disciples observed. In fact, Jesus was crucified on the very day of the Passover as our Passover lamb (see I Corinthians 5:7-8), and the Holy Spirit came soon after on Pentecost (see Acts 2:1-4), another one of God's festivals. This is the reason why HWA speculated that the second coming of Jesus might very well occur, in whatever year it happens, on the very Day of Trumpets, yet another one of God's festivals listed in Leviticus 23. HWA taught that God's festivals listed in Leviticus 23 picture God's plan of salvation. The spring festivals have already proven to be prophetic, and the autumn festivals will prove to be prophetic in the future.

In Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, and Luke 22:17-20, you can read the story of how Jesus at His last Passover supper gave His twelve apostles bread and wine to symbolize His body and blood. Later, the apostle Paul wrote, “For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, 'This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.' For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till he comes” (I Corinthians 11:23-26, NIV). True Christians were to commemorate Jesus' death annually on its anniversary, which was the Passover. The Bible nowhere says to try to observe Jesus' birthday.

The Bible warned, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Indeed, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths” (II Timothy 4:3-4, NIV). This is the real reason why people reject the biblical festivals given by God in the Bible and observed by Jesus and His disciples, and want to observe other things like Christmas instead. As Jesus said, “You have let go of the commands of God, and are holding on to the traditions of men” (Mark 7:8, NIV), and “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!” (Mark 7:9, NIV).

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:29AM/7:17AM/7:44AM wrote:

""And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles." Zechariah 14:16

He didnt say every one that is left of the jews, but of the nations, including you if you are left.

Who blows the Shofar at the Holy Day celebrations that you claim to observe?

Zechariah 14 clearly shows that the Feast will be kept, not christ mass.
"

LOL, I don't claim to observe any days as though they were made "holy" by an imaginary friend.

Muhammad said:
The Day of Judgement will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. —Sahih Muslim, 41:6985

Since he's just as much of an "Apostle" of just as much of an ineffable, infinite, omniscient "god" as Herbert Armstrong ever was, why shouldn't we think that there won't be any Jews left by then? I'll tell you why...

NEWSFLASH: Both Zechariah 14:16 and Sahih Muslim, 41:6985 were fabricated and written by mere mortal, long-dead men. Neither of these "prophecies" describe any future events any more than the horoscope in the newspaper does.

Anonymous said...

"https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-verizon&source=android-browser&q=nimrod+birthday

christ mass is pagan: learn more. See anybody can proclaim one thing or another.
"

Fail. Genetic fallcy. Learn more.

You worship a bronze-age pagan Canaanite god. Learn more.

old EXPCG hag said...

Anonymous said...

Zechariah 14 clearly shows that the Feast will be kept, not christ mass.

December 25, 2014 at 7:44 AM

Yes and there will be God's people there to teach Christ's teachings which focused on LOVE FOR OTHERS, which I don't see happening in any of the HWA clans!! Therefore, you might just be one of these Christ addresses when He returns...

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Matthew 7:21

What is God's will? Whatever Christ talked about while He was here. All of His teachings. I NEVER read Christ saying..."GOVERNMENT IS EVERYTHING!"... NEVER!

Do I have to teach you every thang?

Anonymous said...

I admit to being in the cult of SANTA.
(SANTA is an acronym of "Sucking at Nimrods Teats Aggressively")

As a deacon, 'PROJECT S.A.N.T.A.' participation was one of my duties, and a merry time was had by all, including Jesus who had affixed a nametag to his bare chest, describing himself as "The Nimrod of the Armstrongites"

Anonymous said...


It looks like some former WCG people cannot endure the heat they get from the world and its false churches full of professing so-called “Christians” over not observing customs like Christmas. Some people are quite upset that the truth clashes with the beliefs and practices of their relatives and acquaintances, who all seem to prefer greatly something other than the truth.

Remember that Jesus said, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.” (Matthew 10:34-38, NIV).

How strange that the hundreds of years of teachings of the Catholic church and all its Protestant daughter churches would lead to such massive biblical illiteracy on the part of the world and its two billion professing so-called “Christians.”

Jesus once said to his own brothers who did not believe in him, “The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil” (John 7:7, NIV).

To his apostles Jesus said, “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also” (John 15:18-20, NIV).

Some people want to be free from HWA and the WCG, and especially free from the laws of God. Notice that when Jesus said, “Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free” (John 8:32, NIV), He said it was the truth that would set you free, not myths and lies and nonsense and customs and traditions of men. In fact, Jesus went on to explain that, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin” (John 8:34, NIV). And that is why some people are not truly free in the sense that Jesus meant. They are slaves to sin.

Anonymous said...


old EXPCG hag said...

“I NEVER read Christ saying...'GOVERNMENT IS EVERYTHING!'... NEVER!”



It sounds like you are upset and confused because the PCG always tried to pass off its own satanic abuse as the government of God. If you think about it, you might have noticed that in Gerald Flurry's PCG cult SATANIC ABUSE REALLY IS EVERYTHING! There really is not much else going on in the PCG.

Byker Bob said...

Armstrongism was filled with absurdities, and members often were required to suspend logic, and repress their own knowledge in order to fully capitulate as required.

One of HWA's oft repeated sayings or analogies involved the square peg in the round hole. It was obvious from the fact that this appealed to him that the man was no mathematician, and getting down to practical applications, he was certainly not a macinist!

First, in order for a square peg to fit even into a proper square hole, or a round peg to fit into a round hole, each would need to be sized within a specific range of tolerances. Prior to doing the work, a machinist would ask if our requirements involved a slip fit, or a press fit.

Applying the same measuring and math techniques, one can obtain a slip fit or a press fit for a square peg in a round hole, or a round peg in a square hole. This is because it isn't the shapes that are important, it is a coordination of the sizes. A .250" outer diameter round peg will not fit into a .225" inner diameter round hole, any more than a square peg measuring .250" diagonally will fit into a .225" inner diameter round hole.

There were many other clues which provided insights into the man's supposedly divine intuition, but this is one of the more amusing ones.

BB

Anonymous said...

Hate to break it to ya, but unless you're in elementary school, the "heat from the world" over Xmas is pretty much a non-issue. Except for a few nosy folk, most people just shrug.

Byker Bob said...

3:51---In a sense, I agree. When I went to the bank this afternoon, the teller asked me if I had a nice Christmas. I smiled and said "Hey, I was raised Jewish, but it's nice to have a couple of extra days off!"

Since I'm always thinking about Jesus anyway, a holiday doesn't act as an accelerant.

BB

Anonymous said...

Methinks Grant Turgeon is back. If so, welcome, Blowhard II.

old EXPCG hag said...

Wow, still focusing on the Feasts verses Christmas. Can't you clans people think an further than that??
And I hate long drawn out speeches that I already know.
Turn your brains on if you have any left.Nevermnd.

Anonymous said...

Christ is known as the King of kings and Lord of lords so government is important; and He Said that if you loved Him keep His Commandments, hence He is our Governor.

frankly your argument applies just as much, if not more, to those who keep christ mass.

in the book of revelation Jesus speaks about what the philadelphians have done correctly: namely keeping His Commandments; clearly at least obeying God is better than making all kind of excuses to disobey Him.

true there is much lack of love in the cogs, but that is no excuse to reject God's Law; i obey His Law on principle, not based upon whether or not they who preach His Law obey Him.

Anonymous said...

people who are unable to make their point without use of childish insults typically are in the wrong.

regarding the bronze age canaanite argument: clearly God was among the canaanites in the form of Melchizedek during the beginning of His Callling of abram so it is no wonder that there is similarity between the jews and early canaanite religions.

Anonymous said...

Anon9:04AM said...

"It looks like some former WCG people cannot endure the heat they get from the world and its false churches full of professing so-called “Christians” over not observing customs like Christmas. Some people are quite upset that the truth clashes with the beliefs and practices of their relatives and acquaintances, who all seem to prefer greatly something other than the truth.

... [A bunch of scripture quoting] ...

Some people want to be free from HWA and the WCG, and especially free from the laws of God. Notice that when Jesus said, “Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free” (John 8:32, NIV), He said it was the truth that would set you free, not myths and lies and nonsense and customs and traditions of men. In fact, Jesus went on to explain that, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin” (John 8:34, NIV). And that is why some people are not truly free in the sense that Jesus meant. They are slaves to sin."


Because you say "former WCG people," I guess you're still in GCI/WCG? Except for one thing, they are the highest profile "HWA truth" debunkers on the planet. If you want to find people who dispute that what HWA taught was "the truth," you need look no farther than WCG.

So, I guess you're a "former WCG person" too? That's why we former Armstrongites call you apologists for HWA "Armstrongites." It's a lot less confusing because it's a lot more accurate.

If you want to convince us former Armstrongites that what HWA taught was "the truth" or "the laws of god," you'll have to do better than quoting a bunch of irrelevant scriptures or accuse us all of "observing customs like Christmas." Being born into Armstrongism, I have no associations with christmas and no reasons to celebrate it.

You might wanna start by proving that yahweh and his laws are better (or more real) than allah and his laws. That's a much easier thing to prove than the silly idea that what HWA taught while he was fucking his daughter was "the truth." Unfortunately, you'll get bogged down in the impossible task of demonstrating that yahweh isn't a collective delusion, and never get on to proving that child molesters could also be prophets of real gods worth worshiping.

So Armstrongite apologists like yourselves have set themselves the task of hoeing a very difficult road. But I guess that's what happens when you make yourself the slave of a dead liar. The fact he was also a child molester is just the cherry on top.

A difficult road indeed...

Byker Bob said...

Sigh! More tired, old, debunked Armstrong theology! There is no such thing as "church eras". This is a fabrication of the Adventist movement, based upon alleged prophetic dualism. Nothing in the passages of Revelation indicates that the local churches written of by the Revelator were intended to be symbolic of eras. In fact, William Miller originally taught that the Laodicean "era" began in the mid 1800s. Only the supposed last three seem to have any relevance to the Armstrong movement and the erroneous British-Israel based Armstrong prophecy mold. Why would anything intended for churches in seven Gentile cities have any relevance to Christians (WASAs, no less!) supposedly living in today's modern day Israel in the first place? This type of cross-pollenation violates both logic and parallelism.

The misused terms "Philadelphian", "Laodicean", and "Sardis" have been applied to create divisiveness, judgmentalism, destruction of families, and outright hatred. Oddly, the group HWA branded as Sardis is actually the most stable, loving group of all the COGs, and I believe they are actually experiencing greater growth than any of the ACOGs.

The second mistake the HWA defender makes is still basing beliefs on Alexander Hislop! To the Armstrongite mind, Hislop is taken as being self-verifying. There is no going back to the original sources to see what they really have to say, and to determine whether Hislop's leaps, guesses, and conclusions are warranted by facts. Apparently, Ralph Woodrow's second book, and the opinions of many other historians are not on the approved Philadelphian reading list.

Thirdly, Armstrong speculates that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, and then attributes all of the 613 laws of the Torah to Jesus, writing them into Jesus' words "keep my commandments". The only commandments Jesus made specifically in the New Testament are known today as the Two Great Commandments of the Lord, (TGCOL), the law behind the law. Love for God, love for fellow man. It was the antidote to the legalistic understanding of the Pharisees, who found "whitened sepulchre" ways of keeping the law, but spiting their fellow believers (to say nothing of the ways they treated Gentiles and Samaritans) and making a mockery of God, His love, and His sense of justice.

Lastly, the history of the first century of the church indicates that there were Jewish Christians, and there were the Gentile Christians in Paul's church, who, per the edict of James, and the first Jerusalem Council, were held to Noahide law. They were not required to first become Jews before they could become Christians. That is underscored by the way in which the circumcision law was applied to Gentile converts. Paul chastised visitors from Jerusalem for failing to heed the Council's edict, and for attempting to "Judaize" his members. As we know from history, the Jewish Christians did not survive. The gentile ones did survive, and they are the ones from whom the Catholic (or "Universal Church of God") trace their history. Just as ACOG leaders have cited the "primacy of Peter" in making their erroneous proclamations, Catholics claim that the RCC of today is the byproduct of centuries of. exercising the "binding and loosing" privileges which are read into the words of Jesus.

For anyone who has taken the time to read primary sources, such as the works of Josephus, or the writings of the Antenicene (meaning predating the Council of Nicea) Fathers, for anyone who has examined history beyond Hislop, and for anyone who is tuned in today to the advances of science, Armstrongism is not only baseless, it is patently ridiculous. And, it is applied by its leaders to enlave, not to promote freedom in Christ. The principles taught by Jesus were clearly intended to apply to all of humanity, in all cultures.
BB

old EXPCG hag said...

Anonymous said...


old EXPCG hag said...

“I NEVER read Christ saying...'GOVERNMENT IS EVERYTHING!'... NEVER!”


It sounds like you are upset and confused because the PCG always tried to pass off its own satanic abuse as the government of God. If you think about it, you might have noticed that in Gerald Flurry's PCG cult SATANIC ABUSE REALLY IS EVERYTHING! There really is not much else going on in the PCG.

December 26, 2014 at 9:19 AM

Make sense the next time, would you?

Anonymous said...

the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God, in fact, it cannot be.

it isn't possible for the carnal to live God's way, they don't have the ability.

they will be given the ability though, in God's time.

things will be different then.

Anonymous said...

so what of those prophecies about Christ's Life and the way He would die; and what of the prophecy about God sending judah back to the land of Israel?

Byker Bob said...

Anon 1:22, as a Christian, I believe in the authenticity of the Old Testament prophecies regarding Jesus.

Also, because Jewish people are identifiable today both genetically and from the standpoint of heritage, there would be something with which to work in terms of returning Judah to the covenant lands.

The problem with our past understanding is that additional peoples were assigned identities that really did not apply, and it was speculated that most of these people could be returned to the places of their alleged national origins.

Back when I was a student at Ambassador College, it was taught that somehow, God had supernaturally filtered and preserved Ephraimites and Manassites over the past millennia, leading them to settle in England, only to separate upon the colonization of America. That theory, although always questionable, and verging on superstition, became definitively disprovable with the mapping of the human genome.

Herbert Armstrong and Gerald Waterhouse attempted to assign specific racial and genetic identity to people whose ancestors had been assimilated into various melting pots, and who were known to be of mixed heritage. Think about their theories for a moment. What homeland would you send a family to for the millennium when the father is Italian, and the mother is Irish, and the children are a blend? What if we complicate it even further, with the father being Sicilian, and the mother Black Irish? What if one of the sons marries a Chinese lady? Do you keep the families together, or do you send them "back" to various homelands?

What would HWA have done with Joseph's Egyptian wife, and with his half-Egyptian children, Manasseh and Ephraim? That is something we were not taught about!

BB

Byker Bob said...

Heh. Just imagine the conversations in Joseph's house:

Joseph: "My sons, walk like an Israelite!"

Asenath: No, walk like an Egyptian!"

Who knew that thousands of years later a rock band composed of young Jewish girls would popularize a song called "Walk Like an Egyptian!" (wayo, wayo!)

BB

Anonymous said...

Many Christians do not believe in the authenticity of the Old Testament 'prophecies' regarding Jesus.

Anonymous said...

many people do not believe there will be scoffers in the last days, even while they indeed scoff.

Anonymous said...

"the sun will rise tomorrow" "i dont believe it" "why?" "just because..."

Anonymous said...

frankly if there had been no old testament prophecies about Christ then people would then be saying "well if He was the Christ why werent there any old testament prophecies about Him?"

when people are predisposed to non belief it does not matter how much proof you present to them...

Anonymous said...

when people are predisposed to non belief it does not matter how much proof you present to them...

But isn't "faith" and "belief" about accepting things for which there is no proof? So then, there isn't any proof for you to present. If there were, you wouldn't have to say "belief" because it would be knowledge, and you wouldn't have to try to convince people of it.