Saturday, April 25, 2015

What goes on in the mind of a Church of God member?




Watching the mental melt down of David C Pack, Rod Meredith, Bob Thiel, James Malm, Eric King, Ron Weinland and Gerald Flurry these past few several years has been a fascinating AND frightening experience.  The Church of God has produced an endless supply of absolute idiots over the decades who have self-appointed themselves as prophets and apostles. Every single one of them have been abject failures.  Why then do Church of God members continue to following these men giving them blinding loyalty?  What kind of mind is the typical Church of God member like?

Psychology Today has some interesting information on these types of men and the people who join up with them:
Having studied at length the life, teachings, and behaviors of Jim Jones (Jonestown Guyana), David Koresh (Branch Davidians), Stewart Traill (The Church of Bible Understanding), Charles Manson, Shoko Asahara (Aum Shinrikyo), Joseph Di Mambro (The Order of the Solar Temple aka Ordre du Temple Solaire), Marshall Heff Applewhit (Heaven’s Gate), Bhagwan Rajneesh (Rajneesh Movement), and Warren Jeffs (polygamist leader), what stands out about these individuals is that they were or are all pathologically narcissistic. They all have or had an over-abundant belief that they were special, that they and they alone had the answers to problems, and that they had to be revered. They demanded perfect loyalty from followers, they overvalued themselves and devalued those around them, they were intolerant of criticism, and above all they did not like being questioned or challenged. And yet, in spite of these less than charming traits, they had no trouble attracting those who were willing to overlook these features. Dangerous Cult Leaders
One of the biggest tools in Armstrongism that has been used by single splinter group leader since Herbert Armstrong came on the scene is the practice discrediting individualism and critical thinking.

When a person is individualistic that person is independent and self-reliant.  Independent and self-reliant people are usually critical thinkers.  With Armstrongism's endless debasement of higher education in "worldly" universities it tried to force members into looking down on critical thinking. Armstrongism successfully stopped all critical thinking by producing thousands of booklets, articles, magazines, correspondence courses and films that did all the thinking that a person felt they needed to do.  The answers were spelled out in black and white using step-by-step "proofs" cherry picked out of the bible by church leaders.  They defended that one-way reasoning by using this single quote, "Don't believe me, believe your Bible!"  With these men all claiming superior understanding and direct revelation from their individual god's, how would any person ever dare to question them?

Fear is the other tool that Armstrongite leaders love to use against members.  When a person uses critical thinking they are going against the chosen apostle/prophet of God.  When you do that you are in danger of losing your salvation.  Losing ones salvation was and always has been a serious threat used against members.  To think critically, criticize, and question a leader or his words was anathema and equal to questioning God.

By having the answer to everything in regards to every aspect of a members life, Church of God members have stopped thinking.  It was much easier to have answers spelled out for them in booklets, to have ministers tell them what color car to buy and what kind of job to have.  Its very comforting being surrounded by like minded people.  It is safe.

What do all groups (cult and non-cult) offer a potential recruit? Answer: friendship, identity, respect and security. They also offer a world-view: a way of discerning right from wrong; good from bad.  These are powerful incentives for all people whatever their background. We are social animals. But they offer more: a structured life-style and the ability to acquire new skills. Through their (very different) ideologies they also offer moral explanations into how the world works. They provide clear answers to difficult and big questions: what it all means; the secret of happiness; life after death; the difference between right and wrong, who is with us and who against us; the saved and the damned.  Why Do People Join Cults?
Some of the tactics used by leaders in the Church of God  are:

  • First, they demand that they sever all ties with people (family, friends) and organisations (schools, churches). This naturally makes them more dependent on the cult itself and helps create the person's new identity. They start again, wipe the slate clean. This rule is also found in extreme in Christian Monastic orders. 
  • Second, the members are required to show immediate and unquestioning obedience to rules and regulations which maybe arbitrary, petty or pointless. The idea is to ensure allegiance and obedience. This strategy is used to "break-in" all army recruits. It is the very staff of boot camps.
  • Third, group members often have to do long hours of tedious work. It maybe drilling, begging for money, cooking, followed by compulsory reading, chanting or mediating. Recruits usually become physically, emotionally and mentally exhausted. Sleep deprivation is a good start. It's all part of the induction process.
  • Fourth, all groups need money to exist. Some are very much into money both as an end and as a means. This may, therefore, quickly involve recruits getting involved in illegal, or semi-legal activities. Groups that are state supported or those with a long history of operation may, however, be different. Members need to understand how, when and why money is required and to set about getting it quickly.
  • Fifth, groups make exit costs very high. Leaving is associated with failure, persecution and isolation. It is more than just a waste of time and effort. They make you feel as if nothing will ever be the same as you will be an outcast. It is made to sound a very unattractive, indeed impossible, option. Why Do People Join Cults
Every reader here that uses critical thinking can tell all kinds of stories about how every single one of these traits have been used against them by the church.
Extreme groups offer simple, clear messages in an increasingly complex world. Old certainties are crumbling; ethics even science is portrayed as having only relative truths. The world is corrupt, evil, unfair and very complex. So a group or leader who offers a "sensible, sane" explanation for the complex world, a secure group and personal salvation is very attractive. They come in many forms: politicians of the extreme left or right; religious leaders; romantic revolutionaries; persuasive writers; power-hungry individuals, brilliant orators; movie-star saviours. Why Do People Join Cults
In another article on bad religion, the following  is said:
...early warning signs of 'bad religion'" are:
  1. The organization is willing to place itself above the law. With the exceptions noted earlier, this is probably the most important characteristic.
  2. The leadership dictates (rather than suggests) important personal (as opposed to spiritual) details of followers' lives, such as whom to marry, what to study in college, etc.
  3. The leader sets forth ethical guidelines members must follow but from which the leader is exempt.
  4. The group is preparing to fight a literal, physical Armageddon against other human beings.
  5. The leader regularly makes public assertions that he or she knows is false and/or the group has a policy of routinely deceiving outsiders. Safe Sects?  Early Warning Signs of Dangerous Faith Groups
The people that sit in these Church of God's  watch all of this going down day in and day out.  They have become numb to it all,  Its safer to be numb, blind and deaf than to jump off the cliff and let ones wings soar to freedom.  Its safer to be slave than free.  The leeks and onions still have their appeal.








59 comments:

Byker Bob said...

All that I can say is that as my parents got rid of all the unclean foods from the kitchen, started us out keeping the sabbath, stopped consulting doctors, and eagerly prepared for our move to a town several hours away from our long-term family home town so that they could more excellently shun all of the unconverted relatives, they seemed to be in a blissful, and euphoric state. This, of course, marked the beginning of my and my siblings' personal holocaust. My own sentence in the cult was completed in 1975. Unfortunately, the various influences have taken a lifetime to shed.

Note to prospective culties: Think!

BB

Otis Campbell said...

That sums up old WW, trust, obey and pay.

Anonymous said...

Leaving (or being put out) is very traumatic as mentioned in this article. However, after you process the grief of losing the fake friends that will no longer talk to you, it feels like a re-birth. It feels like breathing oxygen for the first time. Growth and happiness are exponential. I truly think that it's impossible to really know how unhealthy a situation is until you are out of it and get some hindsight.

Anonymous said...

Sheeple.
And the funny thing is, is that many COGers would take that as a compliment.

Anonymous said...

Please get one thing straight we don't follow men, we follow Jesus Christ.

Man is fallible and makes mistakes just like you do by exagerating everything you post because you feel so hard done by.

How many people have quit smoking, got off drugs, stayed married, stopped drinking, gave their children a happy loving environment and live a wonderful blessed life because of all the wonderful work the COG does, you never mention all that do you, and I happen to be one of those and know many more who's lives have been transformed for the better and who have never ever been more happier. This blog is so one sided it's ridiculous.

So why are most so very happy in the COG and some arent? Well it's obviously an attitude problem. You dont need to be a psychiatrist to work that out and seeing how the regulars post here you can see that plainly.

Why don't you mention what the catholic church has done raping and molesting kids, or all the many who died in the insurrections during the middle ages? No you just want to focus on poor little ol'me. Next time I suggest you do your proper research before you join a church, it will save you a lot of torment later especially if you're looking for an easy road to salavation which there isnt any.

Leaders come and go some are good and some not so why cant your little mind work that out, we are grown and mature adults we know who we follow, but you follow no one if so why dont you ever mention who it is or are you so turned off by religion now that you don't believe in God anymore?

It seems to me that if you people here do believe in something it's a very dark and sinister force because all you do is point fingers and accuse and blame. We can all see the mental torment you all suffer here and Im sorry about that, but please if you're going to post something at least be accurate and honest so you don't lack so much credibility.

It's all about getting the COG folk worked up isnt it, but honestly I know most COG folks don't bother coming here because it's sad to see so many bitter old winers and complainers posting the same content over and over.

Yes leaders have made many poor decisions, their men and this happens in all religions we know that so stop sounding like a broken record and as long as men rule that will never change so whats your point here...please tell us something we don't know.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Yes, we're sure that many people have quit smoking, got off drugs, stayed married, stopped drinking, gave their children a happy loving environment and live a wonderful blessed life because of all the wonderful work Scientology has done.

What did Jesus say?

"Lord, we have done wonderful works in your name."

Jesus said, "I never knew your."

Sufficiently motivated cult followers can accomplish a lot, but so can people who were never in a cult.

The issue here is the ultimate fruit of binging narcissists reveling in attracting narcissistic source to feed off of by being exceptionally powerful and confident sounding while peddling trash people can wallow in.

What we need to do is look at the fruit.

Does what Herbert Armstrong established even exist today? Where is the Worldwide Church of God? How many ruined families are there with alienated children? Why are there so many splinters? Shouldn't they all be together as one?

The Cult of Herbert Armstrong Mafia is a story of addicts and codependents. Narcissism is the addiction of choice (unfortunately it has not be declared illegal and is not regulated by the Food and Drug Administration nor does it have oversight of the Justice Department). Narcissism is a vile mental disorder. So what we have is addicted sociopaths and psychopaths attempting to look normal so they can get followers to support their addiction and the codependents are ever so willing to provide and subject themselves to delusions.

I don't suppose people want to talk much about the damage done by bringing people into the ACoGs and turning them into alcoholics. If we're going to talk about all of the supposed good things, maybe we should talk about that.

And the point of all the cult is for people to gain salvation. Can you assure us that there is any for those wallowing in the cult cesspool of lies, deceptions and delusions? Have we seen the Place of Safety yet, or is it just a science fiction delusion?

Those who criticize this site and others seem to be so very willing to ignore not just the bad behavior, but demons in flying saucers and demons coming through a stargate at the bottom of the ocean.

It just seems that to find all this 'positive' stuff, there has to be rather careful picking and choosing, sort of walking over the freshly fallen snow covering a dump.

And you know, the person who knows better, Dixon Cartwright, the Editor of The Journal doesn't believe this stuff: He doesn't believe in British Israelism and he's made it clear that the Bible isn't necessarily inerrant (you can see some of his comments over at Otagosh). And he should know.

It's fake.

Good luck in finding real lasting value as it continues to disappear.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Church of God members should look carefully at the Qualifications of their ministers.

Homer said...

Anon 6:20 AM said, “. . . .we don’t follow men, we follow Jesus Christ.”

I also made that statement until I began to think critically 10 years ago. Thinking critically does not mean in a criticizing way, but more as analyzing what was said. For my first 35+ years the dictates/doctrines of WCG were accepted but only superficially proven. Those dictates/doctrines were presented as factual as if the Bible was the source, but with critical thinking and fact checking it can easily be determined those dictates and doctrines were and still are not in the Bible. It appears Anon 6:20 AM agrees with the following statement made by one of those men who put themselves in positions of authority. “We have men who have studied all these things [in the Bible], just believe what we tell you.”

I will agree with Anon 6:20 AM with his last statement.

“Yes leaders have made many poor decisions, their men and this happens in all religions we know that so stop sounding like a broken record and as long as men rule that will never change so whats your point here...please tell us something we don't know.

One may ask Anon 6:20 AM the following. Since “this happens in all religions” do you follow the dictates and doctrines of men or do you consider critical thinking concerning those things which may not make sense? As far as the very last part of the last statement; there are many, many, many things which could be told about things which we don’t know. Those things could start with the meanings of many of the words in the Bible which have been mistranslated, transliterated, misused and misrepresented for hundreds of years by those who have gone before us, which all the ACOGs accept in one form or another with a few added of their own.

Anonymous said...

"What goes on in the mind of a Church of God member?"

I would like to enter into evidence Anon6:20's comment as Exhibit A.

HWA got on the air and he sold people something they already believed: that there are two invisible, powerful, anthropomorphic agencies controlling everything, one who always lies, and the other who always tells "the truth," and unless the "truthy" one let various apostles and prophets in on what was really going on, we would have no clue. Hence the bible, and hence the reason for his own confident style. He was "in the know."

And in that confident style, he explained something else that had not previously believed, but that seemed to ring true: how all of humanity has been seduced and deceived by a "dark and sinister force," (the one who always lies). He told them what was wrong and nonsensical about all the rest of christendom, (implying that he, and he alone was the one man who had not been deceived and that there weren't just as many holes in his own message, if not more). And because he had some valid points about other churches, it made his "product" extremely attractive to some. They wanted to be "in the know" too. And now they could be.

New converts to the Radio, and later Worldwide Church of god had found a "window" to glimpse into another realm, a realm of power, which revealed to them finally how this seemingly random and chaotic world, and even their own lives, were being constantly tampered with by malignant forces in the present, and even what the future held for all mankind. And that window was the person of HWA himself. Before they were confused and befuddled, unable to find any patterns to make sense out of a random and uncontrollable world. Now they were bathed in the glorious light that shone down upon them from heaven above through a window named HWA. Now their uncertainty and anxiety was gone. Now they had a sense of control because finally they knew what was happening, and what would happen in the future. Never had they "ever been more happier."

Many were drawn like moths to the flame. Their lives were literally "transformed." Before, they were deceived and ordinary, but now they were special. They had been slaves, but now they were free. They had been befuddled, but now they were happy. They had previously been incurring the wrath of the "truthy" one, but now they were on his good side. And now there was literally nowhere else for them to go. Venturing back out into the "darkness" was unthinkable. And many have remained camped out literally at HWA's graveside, basking in the fading afterglow of the man who showed them "the plain truth" about another world which lies beyond the present and the physical.

But were any of HWA's stories true? Was he an "apostle" transmitting information back and forth between this physical world and another realm of power and glory? Does such a realm even exist? Or was he merely a gifted confidence man, like P.T. Barnum? Were people who looked to him in this way "in the know"? Were they free? Were they happier? Did they really lead more "wonderful blessed lives" than they otherwise would have? Or was this merely an illusion? Were they really duped, impoverished, deceived, and enslaved? For some of these items, it's merely a matter of perspective. As they say, "One man's trash is another man's treasure.." Some people are happier with a mental crutch to help them hobble through life. Other items, however, are either true or false objectively.

Anonymous said...

I don't doubt that there will always be some who do quit smoking, drinking, and drugs, stay married and raise their children with an outward show of a "happy," "loving" environment, especially when all such things are imperatives mandated by a controlling hierarchy over them. Whether such a description describes "normalcy" or an episode of the Twilight Zone is another question. I also don't doubt that there are some who will lead happier lives within the structured living arrangement provided for them by a controlling cult. However, it seems quite illogical to suggest that what the overwhelming majority of people in the world consider "normalcy" (by it's very definition), can only come because of "the wonderful work the COG does" an insignificant collection of tiny organizations that most people even in the USA have never heard of.

Anon6:20 asserts that the members of her cult are "grown and mature adults" who "know who we follow." If by this it is meant that they are old and grey, no doubt. If by this what is meant is that they are independent and fully mentally developed, by continally clamoring for controlling structured living arrangements, their behavior belies something else. And it has already been shown that "who they follow" is a matter of one's point of view.

As for the rest of civilization who are not attracted to structured living arrangements, this is probably because we all have "attitude problems," and are guided by "a very dark and sinister force." Oh, also, we're the ones who sound like a broken record.

"What goes on in the mind of a Church of God member?" Ladies and gentleman, Exhibit A, straight from the horse's mouth.

Byker Bob said...

There actually are some people whose lives were improved by the teachings of HWA, although that may seem strange to some of us. Statistically, you'd have to note the fact that a world wide religious movement which appealed to perhaps 150,000 people total for all times had for many reasons also had a high rejection rate. It just was not credible to the vast majority of people who had encountered it. And, of course, HWA claimed this smallness as a sign that he was of God, and that his "dumb sheep" were the small remnant of "elect". We also know that large groups cite their size as proof that they have God's validation and blessing. Either can be falsified or faked.

There is a certain percentage of the general population consisting of people who simply cannot take care of themselves. Some have estimated this percentage to be as high as 15%. These are the people who would typically end up on welfare, in jail, in mental institutions, or under some sort of observation or supervision. For these people, any sort of intense belief, or systematized psychology can and will improve their lives, even groups with offbeat lifestyles, like the Krisna movement.

There are other individuals whose personalities require a high level of structure in their environment, but who are not capable of putting this structure together for themselves. It must be provided by an external source, a source which often also provides a reason or purpose for life. This structure and reason also appeals to some who have suffered a great trauma in life, and feel a sense of hopelessness or lack of direction.

Some individuals are socially inept, but yet feel a need for people. Not everyone is born as a rugged individualist. These people are open to allowing others to take over, and to being permitted to be part of their group, finding the membership cost to be worth certain sacrifices in freedom. They are perfectly willing to embrace a set of non-orthodox rituals to be able to be part of a group.

These categories are readily identifiable and apparent to the man on the street, and today, because of the prevalence of and accumulation of experience with cults, it is well known that the people in these categories are susceptible to cults. Often, humans who are affected by these conditions cannot or do not see or recognize in themselves things that others can readily see, aspects that the exploiters certainly have noticed, and take advantage of. They know and can instantly recognize their "marks". In doing a post-mortem, after leaving, many realize in retrospect that at least during one part of their lives, they did or still do fit the profile of a mark, and were victimized as a result. This naturally results in the anger and bitterness that HWA knew of in advance and created a whole set of rhetoric to deal with, and to get the still involved to parrot.

BB

Black Ops Mikey said...

It's a lot like saying that a man who killed thousands of people is a good, even GREAT man for saving 3 people.

Look! Look! He saved 3 people. He's a good man! Why are you so against him??!!!

Well, because doing a good work three times doesn't make up for doing evil thousands of times.

And... of course... there's that little matter of Herbert Armstrong and all his hirelings carrying on a tradition of being false prophets. Jesus warned against them.

So the supporters of false prophets... do you suppose that you will attain salvation by being an idolater and a liar? Revelation 22 seems to say otherwise.

You should have taken responsibility in the first place on your own to quit smoking, got off drugs, stayed married, stopped drinking, gave their children a happy loving environment and live a wonderful blessed life because you had the power to do it and not claim that a man who denied his wife medical treatment so she would die and he could be free from her to do what he wanted and who committed incest with his daughter for 10 years, gave you the power to do it.

There's something really hinky about that.

RSK said...

COG folk really never get past the straw man fallacy, do they? Every retort they ever seem to muster always seems to contain at least one.

Anonymous said...

It's like this. There are some people who love God, and would do anything for Him. This is known, not only to sincere spiritual guides, but also to those who put together their own self-enriching "gnostic" system of legalism, and then attempt to convince the theophiles that this is what they must do to please God. The very act of being a theophile leaves one vulnerable to the rip-off. Most know this, but the new little lambs are especially vulnerable.

Anonymous said...

To 6:20 pm: yes the COG groups do get some people to quit smoking, etc. I have an in-law who is career military and has done just fine therein, financially set for life, seen the world--and if she had not enlisted early in life some of the rest of the family think she was headed for prison because she was so violent. But she found rules and it worked for her and stabilized her.

But here is the elephant in the room with what you say:

Can two or three COG members on their own meet and simply pray together in the absence of a minister and not get in trouble for that? No? Why?

Can any small number of COG members organize a publication or a community service project on their own independent of ministerial control, and circulate and publish it to fellow church members? No? Why?

Can you and other COG members speak freely to each other and to your leaders and discuss relevant issues including sensitive and critical issues? No? Why?

Do your COG leaders publish to members such as you explicitly detailed financial statements including published salary levels and expenses, in the interests of openness and full disclosure and cleanness of finances? No? Why?

If you were disfellowshipped by a COG leader for an unjust reason, would your COG friends disregard that minister's sayso and continue treating you the same warm way, standing by you come what may? That is what true friends do. No?

If you cannot answer yes to these questions, ask two more:

Do your answers to these questions reflect a culture which encourages the fullest expression of what Quakers call "that of God which is within every person"?

Is this a culture you would recommend to others, or recommend others raise their children within?

Scroller

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...April 26, 2015 at 6:20 AM:"...we are grown and mature adults we know who we follow, but you follow no one if so why dont you ever mention who it is or are you so turned off by religion now that you don't believe in God anymore?"

Speaking for myself, I follow the truth(wherever it may lead me) and it has led me astray from Armstrongism. Thank God.

"It seems to me that if you people here do believe in 'something' it's a very dark and sinister force..."

To whom? The 'something' that you are most ignorant of must be of the devil? How is that credible? Are you a COG minister?

"It's all about getting the COG folk worked up isnt it,"

LOL. I think you are upset and all worked up that the ugly truth has gotten out and is being reported and discussed.

"...but honestly I know most COG folks don't bother coming here because it's sad to see so many bitter old winers and complainers posting the same content over and over."

Then why waist your time posting here. If no one comes here why crack open the door?

"......please tell us something we don't know."

OK. The truth.

My religion is to seek for truth in life and for life in truth, even knowing that I shall not find them(absolute truth) while I live. Unamuno

Anonymous said...



Anon. 6:20 AM said...

“It's all about getting the COG folk worked up isnt it, but honestly I know most COG folks don't bother coming here because it's sad to see so many bitter old winers and complainers posting the same content over and over.”



I still believe in God and the Bible, but the fact is that there are some very real and very serious problems in the so-called COGs today. There is simply no getting around this fact.

The reason that most COG folk do not come to this Blog is not just because there are some people here who hate God and love evil. Mostly, COG people do not come here because they do not yet know about it, and because they are forbidden by their leaders to search out such information.

On the COG scene today there are many self-appointed (or perhaps more accurately, Satan-appointed) false religious leaders. They often attract a following of former WCG members by pretending to be standing up for what HWA had taught. Then, they actually change everything in the worst, most unimaginable ways.

Consider, for example, the PCG, which has diabolically replaced many of the major teachings of HWA with various abominable substitutes, and is full of sexual depravity. Consider the RCG, which is totally financially plundering the people who went there wanting to support the truth, and giving their minds a serious twist with its wrong prophetic guesses and suddenly changing teachings. Consider the LCG and its doctrinal “upgrades.” Consider the UCG and its godless Tkach people leading it. Consider the many formerly unknown little kooks who now each want to preach their own strange ideas.

There is a time and place for everything. Satan has certainly seen to it that there are all sorts of false religious leaders on the so-called COG scene today. It makes complete sense that there would also be a time and place for a Blog that exposes these deceitful and malicious impostors.



NO2HWA said...

Anon claims that no COG members come here, yet 2.7 million hits prove him wrong. They are probably all Scientologists.

Anonymous said...

Each of us can decide for ourselves what we believe, but we better look at all the facts.

I personally choose to believe British Israelism and have proven sufficiently for myself that that doctrine is correct and many agree with me. You can come up with many counter claims and arguments and you're entitled to that.

Now wheather HWA came up with that or not doesn't bother me in the slightest as Im satisfied that its correct. HWA has someone who will judge him and the truth will come out one way or another.

I'm also very happy to believe in the sabbath, tithing, the holy days and many other biblical teachings that the cog teaches and have proven sufficiently to myself that doctrine to be correct.

To throw a term like cult into the fray is shallow, everything can be classed as a cult even affiliation with a political party.

The point is leaders make mistakes wheather a leader in business, company, corporation, government institution, political party and yes even a religious leader.

How many mistakes have we all made as humans, and what if we were a leader of a church would we be sqeaky clean? I don't think so, so how can we honestly point fingers when we're just as bad?

Christianity is about love, a higher level of love than we all mostly exercise (including me)and thats what the COG teaches me. Even the leaders have said many times, sometimes with genuine tears, that if they were able to change things they did in the past they would and I believe that, yes I do because I want to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Look at the wicked king manassah son of hezekiah the righteous king. When his son took over at 12 he tore down all the places of Godly worship and replaced them with pagan idols and even placed an idol in the temple. He sawed Isaiah into pieces and killed many prophets and teachers. The babylonians came and took him captive, he repented and God forgave him after all he did and the pain and misery he caused, incredible. He was allowed back and destroyed all the pagan places and restored Godly worship and was given another 30 years of rulership, now thats forgiveness after all that man did, so how can we judge anyone.

There are those who will agree and those who disagree and you might think me strange for not seeing things your way and I"m astounded at how you cant see what those who agree with me see and in the end its about what each of us is satisfied with.

The word cult is just that, a deceptive word that can mean a lot of things and covers nearly everything any people strongly believe in. Name calling is childish and most people know that. We are not a cult just because we strongly believe what you don't.

Anonymous said...

Where is there love in the COG. It has caused hundreds of suicides, ripped apart marriages and families, caused untold numbers of death because of its vile healing doctrine, and the church has split into over 700 splinter groups. But that's ok, they are just human leaders and don't need to be held accountable. It's not our job. What's load of bullshit! How many more need to die before you take a stand and leave th cult?

Anonymous said...

Yeah right 2.7 million hits in the blogs liftime,...which is about right. So you minus 20% for coming to the wrong place, then another 20% who get turned off by the content and another 20% who get quickly bored and 20% WHO ARE the regulars who visit 5 or more times a day so under 1 million or so in the blogs lifetime is about right or 20 people per day...that's if your lucky :-)

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Where is there love in the COG. It has caused hundreds of suicides, ripped apart marriages and families, caused untold numbers of death because of its vile healing doctrine, and the church has split into over 700 splinter groups. But that's ok, they are just human leaders and don't need to be held accountable. It's not our job. What's load of bullshit! How many more need to die before you take a stand and leave th cult?

April 26, 2015 at 8:41 PM

Yeah well Im not responsible for that and how many splinter groups in the catholic faith? There are no where near 700 splinter groups in cog. Why don't you ever mention that, I'll tell you why because you cant take responsibility for your own mistakes and want to find someone or something to blame.

For all the negative things you say there are many more positives that have made peoples lives much more happy as there is with any church group. There are two sides to every story so stop just pumping out your exagerated negative points of view to suit yourself and make you feel better because you think Jesus has done all the work for you and you don't need to change.

Anonymous said...

"Each of us can decide for ourselves what we believe, but we better look at all the facts.

I personally choose to believe British Israelism and have proven sufficiently for myself that that doctrine is correct and...
"

What a gem! Facts?

No, no. Better to avoid looking at any facts at all, and instead look only at ancient rumors, legends, and myths, but pretend those are facts.

At this point, seeing this person has a determined bent toward foolishness, I quit reading...

Anonymous said...

"...you think Jesus has done all the work for you..."

Jesus? LOL! Jesus has never done anything! He is a literary invention, like Harry Potter.

Byker Bob said...

To the person claiming to have proven the theory of British Israelism: This would be something totally new, something that the Armstrong movement was never successful in doing. Their only "proof" was "Mr. Armstrong says...."

Could you please share your materials and methodology? Also, where are these Israelites living today? Can you also prove that the Germans have descended from the Assyrians? How were the race changes accomplished? That's probably the most puzzling part of all of this.

BB

Anonymous said...

Anon wrote, "And the funny thing is, is that many COGers would take that as a compliment."

Very true! Many cult-indoctrinated people have said, "That's OK, because my brain needed washing!" in response to the notion that members of their particular church were brainwashed.

Connie Schmidt said...

In response to ANON 8:43...

Lets assume that he is correct that 80% of the hits to this blog are either short term readers, or accidental hits.

That would still make for 540,000 valid readers over the last few years. Lets assume that a regular COG reader comes to the site once every four days to read upgrades. The site is fairly dynamic and upgrades about this often, every 4 days.

Lets assume these 540,000 hits came over the last 1000 days.

This equals 540 unique individuals a day, who cycle through the site. The cycle is again, about 4 days of unique regular readers.

THUS-- there are about 2160 regular consistent readers of this blog. Lets assume that half of those regulars are no longer a part of the COG. Considering the entire COG universe consists of just 25,000 current members, it is safe to assume that of the 1000 COG current member regulars, that this represents some 4% of the current COG population.

Even if it is just 2% of the current COG population that is coming here, I would imagine that these people are most likely influencers and opinion makers, and influence some 10 to 20 others in their own intimate circles. It is safe to say that the "reach" of this blog , whether first hand or one degree of separation, is 10 to 20% of the entire COG as it exists today.

Connie Schmidt said...

To be fair, the 700 splinter group number is bandied about is exaggerated.

Most of that idea came from anybody who had a blog or short term idea of being a "church". Most of those links have gone cold and dark over time, or remain solo operations, or a home group of 3 people.

The top 15 groups have 99% of all COG membership today, with just five groups, UCG, COGWA, LCG, PCG, RCG controlling some 90% of the action.

This is the way most business markets evolve into , whether they be the airline business, trucking industry, auto industry, banking etc. The 5 largest companies control 90% of the market share.

Miller Jones said...

To Anonymous April 26 @ 6:20 AM and 7:44 PM, the thing that makes my skin crawl is that there was a time when I would have agreed with you.

Black Ops Mikey said...

7 billion+ people on the earth could choose to believe the earth is the center of the universe. (They could also believe the world is flat.) In fact, the Roman Catholic Church established that the earth was the center of the universe by fiat and enforced the belief on pain of death. They threatened Galileo because he just knew the earth was not the center of the universe.

And 400 years later the Roman Catholic Church apologized to Galileo. They finally admitted the earth was NOT the center of the universe.

The point is that you can believe with all your being that British Israelism is true and you can get other people to believe in it too.

The problem is that science has proven it false.

And not to put too fine a point on it, Dixon Cartwright doesn't believe in it either.

So what's the problem? Isn't British Israelism just a harmless idea? The problem with viewing it that way is that it was the core of the Radio Church of God and no one would be baptized in the 1950s without accepting it because Herbert Armstrong saw it as "the key to prophecy". He based his doomsday scenarios of false prophecies on it. He predicted that the United States and Britain would lose World War II based on it. He was absolutely sure. It turns out that he was, to put it politely, full of crap. This made him a false prophet.

Now Scripture is pretty clear about false prophets. Jesus said to beware of them and the Old Testament pronounced a death sentence on them. Since they are liars, they will not enter into the Kingdom of God if you believe Revelation 22 (but who would do that?)

So British Israelism made Herbert Armstrong a false prophet upon whom God has placed a death sentence, if we are to believe Scripture. That's a problem because Armstrongists don't really believe the Scripture -- if they did, they would not idolize and follow dead false prophets and would obey II Timothy 3 instead where it says very clearly, "from such turn away".

So the question is, WHY DON'T YOU ARMSTRONGISTS OBEY GOD????!!!???

Please explain your bad example.

You are causing people to lose faith and moving them toward agnosticism and atheism.

And you know what the Bible says that Jesus said about that, don't you? Or do you believe Jesus was just a myth to be ignored so you can have your own little cult social group?

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 6:20 - Just so you know, I agree with every word you wrote.

RSK said...

There goes 9:03 putting up some more straw men. We'll have a forest of them soon at this rate.

Anonymous said...

The most puzzling part for me is how, since the Angles, Saxons, and Teutons were all next-door-neighbors before some (not all) of the Angles and Saxons decided to ship out for points west, how it is the Teutons, oft cited as being quintessential Germans should have been "Assyrians" while the Angles and Saxons who went to Britain were all "Israelites," and yet, any Angles and any Saxons who stayed behind, I guess they were magically transformed into "Assyrians" too?

The fact is, there were hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of independent tribes living in the forests of Europe. We often classify them by the names the Greeks/Romans called them, Celtae, Galli, Germani, Belgae, Aquitani, who knew little about them, except that some had similar customs and spoke similar languages. Mostly they didn't care beyond that which was necessary to manage them for tax purposes. If the Romans ever asked, they didn't tell us where they orgininally migrated from, or who they thought they orginally descended from. You have to know that some of these tribes migrated west from Anatolia or the middle east, but some of them probably migrated directly from Africa, like the Neanderthals did 700,000 years before.

These tribes moved around a lot too. And you also have to know there must have been intermarriages between these tribes. The Romans took some of their sons and raised them as Romans, planning to later return them to be ambassadors with a dual perspective, but you have to know that plans change and some of them stayed and raised families with Roman women.

And with all this variation, and all this mixing, there's no such thing as a pure monoculture of people. The genetic stock of the Romans and Etruscans have vanished as a distinct gene pool into the background population imported as slaves. If there are any "Assyrians" today, they're certainly not a recognizable people with a political boundary. Even the Jewish gene pool will have drifted away from what the Jewish gene pool was 2,000 years ago, Sephardic Jews picking up Spanish and Portugese genetic stock, and Ashkenazi picking up eastern European genetic stock.

So it's puzzling how anyone can look at the complex melting pot political nationalities, and equate those with ancient ethnicies. The assumption of simplicity seems totally unrealistic. The whole concept is absurd on it's face.

Black Ops Mikey said...

And, please, remember what a wonderful man Hitler was and all the good he did.

He turned around the German economy and halted runaway inflation. He brought peace and prosperity to the Germans. He even got the trains to run on time.

With all the wonderful things he did and all the people he helped, it would be totally unfair to say anything negative against him.

And after all, he did NOT commit incest with his daughter.

Genghis Khan is a Mongolian hero. He reunified the chaotic Inner Mongolia prairie and led his people to be a great civilization. Genghis Khan made great contributions to the founding of the powerful Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) as well as the unification of China which enhanced greatly the interactions of the peoples of China.

Even today, Genghis Khan is still worshiped and remembered by his people.

No one should dare say anything bad or negative about him, either!

Anonymous said...

"How many people have quit smoking, got off drugs, stayed married, stopped drinking, gave their children a happy loving environment and live a wonderful blessed life because of all the wonderful work the COG does, you never mention all that do you"

This is actually often true for people in prison who get into the Muslim religion. Many of those people have turned their lives around for the better.

The same also applies to other religions people have found while in prison, like Mormonism.

Ed said...

I think the fear of being condemned is what keeps people in the seats of the COG's. Many of them sense that something is not right but they can't get past the fear. Also the fear that their lives will fall apart if they leave keeps them in. The scripture often quoted by the armstrongite task masters, "I will turn them over to a reprobate mind", comes to my mind. This scripture was used to scare people into thinking that if they left they would go insane and be putty in the hands of satan. Hogwash, I have been out of armstrongism for 20 years. Although I have scars from armstrongism that linger I can honestly say that my life has inproved much since I left.

Byker Bob said...

Let's face it. How, and why do people in Armstrongism stop smoking, get off drugs, stay married, and stop drinking? (I'm not sure that it is possible with that belief system to give their children a happy loving environment, or to live a wonderful blessed life). Fear. Pressure. Stress. And quite frankly, those are some of the very things that can cause vices and bad marriages.

It isn't only important that one make healthy choices, it is also important to long term mental health how and why one makes such choices, and also the type of support one receives. Threatening people with disfellowshipment, Lake of Fire, and the Germans just doesn't cut it as effective, loving, support. The financial requirements involved in an ACOG membership are enough to drive one stark raving mad, as is the pressure of a never arriving, always postponed end time

These negative factors are not present in some of the other organizations and alternatives available for promoting healthy, blessed lifestyles, meaning that this ends up just being another way in which Armstrongism subverts things that would normally be positives and turns them into negatives. So, they don't count.


BB

Anonymous said...

Annon 7:44

Amazing how the wicked King was forgiven after all those horrible atrocities but Rod Meredith can't forgive any of the purge victims that have repented and ask him for forgiveness ....

LCG leadership holds grudges like none I've ever experienced.

The wicked King didn't have an extra measure of God's Holy Spirit. Meredith alledgey does after ordination. Shouldn't that help him behave in a more Christian manner? Isn't he held to a higher standard?

Yes many in power in our lives (politicians, employers, etc) are corrupt but they aren't preaching to us instructions for Biblical character and understanding God's way of life. It's hard to take advice from ministers who are not practicing what hey preach. Hypocrites and Pharasees.

The Bi LE says you will be forgiven as you forgive. Perhaps, because if Meredith's inability to forgive, he has cut his nose off despite his face.

Anonymous said...

Ed you are right. Many sense that things are wrong but let fear rule them theyby preventing action.

In LCG, friendship is dependent on membership in LCG. If you leave or get put out you will loose every relationship you thought was real and cease to exist to them. That is partly why it is so difficult to leave. We've all seen it happen.

It takes a very strong person to say, "I'd rather walk with God and risk losing my friends than to walk with my friends and risk losing God". Courage is sorely lacking. The status quo is just so much less work. Change is hard people. But it's the only way to grow.

Anonymous said...

A previous commenter here said:

"Please get one thing straight we don't follow men, we follow Jesus Christ."

But how can one know if they're following Jesus Christ or a man, like HWA?

How can one be so sure of who they're following when there's all these men creating all kinds of organizations preaching their version of Jesus Christ so that others will follow them (in order to accept cash on Jesus' behalf—after all, Jesus doesn't have any bank accounts in his own name, just like he didn't write anything down).

For many years, I too told myself that I was following Jesus Christ, not HWA. But now, being done with the whole thing, I realize that no definitive statement can be made about who I was, or was not, following.

The fact of the matter is, I was hewing to a very peculiar interpretation of scripture, one that was dropped into my parents lap by HWA, and which in turn was dropped into my lap by my parents. If, in the absence of HWA, I wanted to be a Christian, and I merely read the bible for myself, there is no way I would have come to the same conclusions and interpretations of it that HWA did. So was I following HWA? Absolutely.

That doesn't mean that I wasn't also following Jesus Christ. I could have been. If HWA was the mouthpiece of Jesus Christ he claimed to be, then I was also following Jesus Christ. But if he wasn't, then the probability that I was also following Jesus drops to approximately zero.

There's ~40,000 different Christian sects out there. Each one has followers. None of them have similar enough interpretations of the bible (or leaders with small enough egos) to permit them to merge. In effect, there's ~40,000 different men you could be following and still think you're following Jesus. If you're a purist, you'd have to tumble to the conclusion that there is at most but one of them who you could follow and also be following Jesus. Or if you're a liberal, all roads lead to *ahem* Rome.

I couldn't tell you what man to follow, such that following him would be equivalent to following Jesus. I don't think anyone has sufficient information to make a definitive, categorical statement like that.

But then, that's what "faith" is for, right?

Redfox712 said...

>>I think the fear of being condemned is what keeps people in the seats of the COG's. ... Also the fear that their lives will fall apart if they leave keeps them in. The scripture often quoted by the armstrongite task masters, "I will turn them over to a reprobate mind", comes to my mind. This scripture was used to scare people into thinking that if they left they would go insane and be putty in the hands of satan.<<

I can personally testify that when I believed many of HWA's teachings (2000-8) I thought that, aside from those in LCG, all those who had left WCG had been blinded by Satan and deceived into viewing things the wrong way.

I have now learned that this is complete nonsense. It is misinformation designed to keep you trapped in the COG and to keep paying tithes.

Scroller said...

THE SONG OF THE QUEST*
(a loose and rambling parody sung by a traveling minstrel at the Broken Septre Tavern discovered and edited by Peter M. Leschak)

In fiery dread of wrathful days
The rituals ensued,
In prophecies of golden times
My spirit warmed and brewed.
With sabbaths weighed and counted,
Lost kingdoms gleaned from time,
I forsook the Holy Grail
With repentance vast, sublime.

I rose from dungeon darkness
And one set of chains were cut,
I slew a mad magician
Who had me in his clutch.
With fealty by water rites
I died and then returned
To fall in homage at the feet
Of one whom I had spurned.

This one had come on air waves
His words had bit and stung,
He flew a thunderous silver bird
And called magicians dung.
He spoke of joyful men he knew
In places west and south,
He spoke of learned scholars,
Of feasts and smiling mouths

He told of happy laborers
Of altruistic saints.
He mentioned seekers of the truth
He offered peace and grace.
In gratitude I drew my sword
And added to his coffers.
From the north I journeyed to the south
To accept his glorious offers.

His palace sat in rustic land
Was beautiful and vast,
I stood, a squire, overcome
By what he had amassed.
His arm was strong, he'd garnered much
But only a son was he,
His father ruled him from the west
In a palace by the sea.

The father was a patriarch
His son the leading king
Below them other kings and knights
And several squires like me.
The loyal peasants of the realm
Brought honor, gifts, and gold
To aid the kings and scattered knights
(They called themselves a "fold")

So at the palace of the south
I practiced with my sword
To be a knight and speak with kings,
To rule and guide the fold.
The learned scholars opened books
(Many were even knights)
They told me of a dove with claws,
They made the dull seem bright

They preached of faith and love and grace
But still they sentenced death,
They cornered freedom for all men
Then in the next drawn breath,
The laws and rules and rituals
The patriarch's own whims,
Came rushing from their mouths to say,
"To not agree is sin!"

<… snip … skipping "The Dawn of the Jesters" … "Adviser to the King" … "In the Days of Bloody Thunder" … snip … to "The Revelation">

T'was among the cries the rebels heard
"Where can you ever go?"
Beyond the palace gates you're told
Is error, sin, and woe.
"No other sons of men can know
What's proper, right, and good.
No other learned scholars
Can feed you living food."

I journeyed long and narrow roads
Where few had gone before,
Where lonely little towns had sprung
Around the Old Ones' lore.
There in scattered hamlets
Knights and scholars wrote
The peasants never tasted dust,
There were no kings to boast.

I sojourned there among the wise
(Afar from palace bars)
And shared their fires of warmth and light
Beneath new midnight starts.
Celestial men who keep not birds
Nor royal gates and doors,
Who rise not over lesser ones
(And put them all in drawers).

I still can hear the patriarch
In his palace by the sea
I often see his many kings
And what I sought to be.
I hear them claiming precedence
And how the rest are dearth,
Though even in their confidence
They do not rule the earth

And so I ride the mountain trails
An ever wary sword
To kill the coiled vipers
And flush the Spider Lord.
In prophecies of golden times
Like purest snow-fed streams,
My spirit quenches fiery third
For real lands of dreams

The wrathful dogs of desert nights
And shamans by the score
Come tugging at my stirrups
And fall beneath my sword.
But soon from o'er the mountain peaks
A royal horn will ring,
The sun will rise like thunder
And reveal the only King.

-- Peter Leschak, "The Song of
The Quest", written in 1975 [published in G. Doudna, Showdown at Big Sandy, 2006].

Anonymous said...

Hey Anonymous 6:20 dude; you just blew them all out of the water man...that's so cool!! These people never answer the questions and alays want proof, like as if you need to write it all out for them. I just want you to know that I totally agree with everything you said. They always seem to wander off on some psychological journey about hitler, stalin, black operations and other crazy biker stuff thats confusing. I wish all you folk would just answer the questions honestly instead of taking us for a long stroll through some crazy warped maze of usless hog pog. I think most here are either athiests, roman catholics or still not too sure.

Anonymous said...

I spent four years in the WCG, from age 21-25. It was GREAT! Why? I was not making any money to speak of, so I didn't lose much in tithes, etc.. I met my wife at AC (a great blessing). I tell people that it was worth being in a cult since it meant I met my future wife there. I never was sick so I wasn't hurt by their anti doctor/medicine teaching. I wasn't in long enough to do real damage. But, I did become more like a Berean, questioning, searching and thinking. It is as if I was vaccinated from the infection of the cults by my exposure to it in the early 70's. Of course, I did attend AC for two years, after having completed three years at an accredited college. This meant I had to earn a second degree before going on to get a Master's. But that's O.K. The military paid for most of the rest of my college.

Anonymous said...

Annon 6:20 says they don't follow a man, they follow Christ.

I have heard that so many times before but how do you know if the leader of your organization is following Christ? By their fruits? Well, following that logic, LCG, UCG, GOGWA, etc all have statements of beliefs that are almost imperceptibly different so then it boils down to you are in fact following which ever man you are more in line with. They all keep the holy days, Sabbath, British Israelism and all the other HWA foundations.

They ONLY reason COG people aren't all together in one church can be attributed to "works of the flesh". That is not following Christ. Most of the people want to be together but the men at the top are holding on to their money and power so tightly they will never let that happen. Is that Godly? Can you imagine Christ doing that?

If you really don't think you are following a man, you are so blinded that there is nothing any of us could ever say to convince you otherwise... but you are following a man!

They literally brainwash you into believing that you have to be part of their organization in order to be "following Christ" or to be "part of the Body" or to "be counted worthy to escape the tribulation" or to be "called to the place of safety". It's scary stuff and they have successfully used it to rule with fear for decades.

I too used to believe it.

Praise God I have been freed from that fear. I now know that God's people are scattered all over. They are NOT IN ANY ONE ORGANIZATION. They are spread throughout many organizations and in homes throughout the world. You don't have to be IN an organization to be a part of the Body of Christ. I still keep the Sabbath and the holy days. I still believe that the Bible is the Word of God and try to follow its principles daily. I haven't lost the "truth" (except British Israelism) or any of those other things they say will happen to you if you leave their organizations. Christ is the head of my church. Not a man. Organizations lead by carnal men will always end up going down the same dark path. It is human nature.


Anonymous said...

The thing that drew me to LCG was that they say they keep the whole Bible; every Word of God.

It took me years to see that they pick and chose, just like every other so called Christian organization I have ever known.

It's easier to study my Bible with my spouse, watch sermons on-line for real meat, and then go to church at LCG for fellowship. I haven't been fed there for years. Sometimes it's hard to sit through the entire sermon. But I love the people and I don't want to lose my friends. LCG is my social club. It's not my source of spiritual food. My food is the Word of God.

k-baradanikto said...

"Please get one thing straight we don't follow men, we follow Jesus Christ."
Following a man who presents unorthodox theological ideas is a form of idolatry. The Bible itself says that scripture is not to be of any private interpretation (II Peter 1:20). Anyone who claims that he has the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth --- and that he alone has access to that truth and the ability to impart it to others --- is indulging in private interpretation of scripture. Other ideas are rejected out of hand as being the result of Satanic deception. This leads the followers of the man looking solely to him as the one to guide them into the kingdom because only he has the truth. The emphasis is on the man, not on God, and that is idolatry.

Black Ops Mikey said...

What goes on in the mind of a church of God member is the result of codependence.

Anonymous said...

Blogger Black Ops Mikey said...

"It's a lot like saying that a man who killed thousands of people is a good, even GREAT man for saving 3 people."

This reminds me of what happened at a church pot luck here last week-
Many got severely ill, and so far one woman has died of botulism.

The pastor of the church was interviewed, and mostly only spoke of the "miracles" of the people who lived.
His short mention of the woman who died, was him throwing his arms up and saying it was a mystery.

That pastor deserves a kick in the balls for Christian stupidity!
Two main points-

1) DUDE! It ain't no "mystery"! Botulism can kill people.
WTF is wrong with you??? And you ignored this opportunity to suggest that people be careful when eating home canned foods???

2) DUDE! Is it really a "mystery" or "wonderful miracle" in your eyes that more people didn't die of botulism???
You might want to consult scientists on Planet Earth (Instead of your imagined 'Planet Jesus') whence you will discover that your alleged "Miracle" is no more prominent than the pimple on your ass.

Anonymous said...

"I think it was 'Blessed are the cheesemakers.'"

"Aha, what's so special about the cheesemakers?"

"Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products."

Anonymous said...

Yes, in 1992 the Catholic Church finally got around to apologizing to Galileo. But, that was rather late, since Galileo died in 1642.

It does give an example, though, of how religious orgs who claim to have "the Holy Spirit" have a snail-like speed in catching up to reality.

Actually, I think it's less about their scruples than it is about practical matters like them not wanting to loose too many members and not wanting be seen as total buffoons.

(Sort of like what some of the Mormon's moves and changes have been in their more modern history.)

Anonymous said...

"Ratzmann's Silver Hammer"

Joan was quizzical, studied correspondence course
Late nights in her home
Sitting all alone with a Bible ohh oh oh oh
Terry Ratzmann majoring in Armstrongism
Calls her on the phone
Can I take you out to the bible study, Jo- oh- oh ohn?
But as she's getting ready to go
A knock comes on the door

Bang, bang, Ratzmann's silver hammer
Came down upon her head
Bang, bang, Ratzmann's silver hammer
Made sure that she was dead

Back in spokesman's club, Terry plays the fool again
Pastor gets annoyed
Wishing to avoid an unpleasant scene
He tells Ratz to stay when they all have gone away
So he waits behind
Writing 50 times "I must not be so" oh oh oh
But when he turns his back on the boy
He creeps up from behind

Bang, bang, Ratzmann's silver hammer
Came down upon his head
Do do do do do
Bang, bang, Ratzmann's silver hammer
Made sure that she was dead

P.C. Thirty-One said "We caught a dirty one"
Ratzmann stands alone
Painting tithe-imonial pictures ohh oh oh oh
Pastor and the Deacon, while their Depends are leakin'
Say he must go free (Ratzmann must go free)
The judge does not agree and he tells them so oh oh oh
But as the words are leaving his lips
A noise comes from behind

Bang, bang, Ratzmann's silver hammer
Came down upon his head
Do do do do do
Bang, Bang, Ratzmann's silver hammer
Made sure that he was dead
Wow wow wow oh!
Do do do do do

Silver hammer Ratz!

Byker Bob said...

Proof that counters what they think they proved through their church doesn't register with the COGlodytes. New, or additional information simply doesn't apply. I had to deal just yesterday with a situation where someone who was comforted by the thought a just passed loved one being out of pain, and now in heaven with Jesus, had been dogmaticallly told about "soul sleep" by one of the ACOG members who has been taught by the Armstrongs to play with commas when quoting Jesus.

BB

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 1:10 AM: I previously posted that I agreed with every word that Anonymous 6:20 wrote. I originally had written more but deleted it right before submitting. What I was going to send was pretty much exactly what you DID send. That's what I get for being a polite Canadian...or being afraid of atheistic bikers. Thanks for your excellent post.

Anonymous said...

April 28, 2015 at 1:10 AM anon..."These people never answer the questions..."

Never?! LOL. You just don't like the answers. If someone happens to disagree with you, you just say God 'says you're wrong' as if you have any authority to speak for Him.

anon..."I wish all you folk would just answer the questions honestly"

Have you ever tried to listen honestly?

anon..."Amazing how the wicked King was forgiven after all those horrible atrocities but Rod Meredith can't forgive any of the purge victims that have repented and ask him for forgiveness ...."

All too often it seems to boil down to an 'authority issue'. Micro-managing other people's attitudes with authority will NOT work. What to do? Well, creating or leading experiences worth sharing is alien to them. So, they choose to alienate the people that challenge their character(or how they want others to see them). To project and cutoff is the Armstrong way.

anon..."It's easier to study my Bible with my spouse, watch sermons on-line for real meat, and then go to church at LCG for fellowship. I haven't been fed there for years. Sometimes it's hard to sit through the entire sermon. But I love the people and I don't want to lose my friends."

That says a whole lot about LCG. Just make sure you don't sin against Rod and his clan and you can continue to keep your 'friends'. BAWW Bah BAhh.Sheesh. Stop, I thought Christ is the sheperd of His church. Have you thought about Ronald L. Dart and the living-room church of God? A few will say that is still stupid but at least you will be free of the many wolves.

Apostle James said...

"Anonymous said...

The thing that drew me to LCG was that they say they keep the whole Bible; every Word of God.

It took me years to see that they pick and chose, just like every other so called Christian organization I have ever known.

It's easier to study my Bible with my spouse, watch sermons on-line for real meat, and then go to church at LCG for fellowship. I haven't been fed there for years. Sometimes it's hard to sit through the entire sermon. But I love the people and I don't want to lose my friends. LCG is my social club. It's not my source of spiritual food. My food is the Word of God."
______________________________

You love men rather than God.
Jn 12:43.. for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.

Anonymous said...

LCG leaders do not have to answer to anyone, but "God", they like to say. Why respond to critics? Just call them tools of Satan. As long as the sheep keep sending in money, why both with your critics? HWA didn't give interviews. He sent S. Rader to visit with Mike Wallace. They are all in their little bubble, taking money from the sheep and producing booklets and programs that few people read or hear. As long as the people are made to think they are making a difference, who cares? The printing presses at AC could be loaded onto a conveyer belt and dumped into the Pacific. Who cared? Money kept coming in. Members were led to believe they were part of a great end-time work and HWA and the top leaders were making pretty good money, lived on Waverly Drive (or Bricket Wood if they angered HWA) nad nice titles and the fawning respect of the members. Everyone is happy. Everyone wins, except those who die broke, die prematurely because of illness and families that are destroyed.

Byker Bob said...

"atheistic bikers". (Anon. 12:14)

Well, you are probably to be excused, if you are new to these forums and blogs, but you may want to do a bit more research so that next time you decide to label someone, it is more accurate.

www.hwarmstrong.com/the_road_from_sheol.htm

BB

Anonymous said...

It took the Roman Catholic Church 400 years to apologize for how harshly they treated Galileo.

If God gave Rod Meredith 400 years, I wonder if he would ever have the character to apologize for how harshly he has treated the entire Scarborough family.