Thursday, June 4, 2015

Herbert Armstrong's Disdain for COG Members Carries Over to Pack, Flurry, Meredith, Kubik and the Leadership of Every COG to this Very Day.



There was an interesting comment on Gavin Rumney's OTAGOSH blog the other day in response to his posting on PCG's new local radio station.

The comment is about the disdain that HWA had towards the lowly church member.  It is the very same attitude that is still used by Pack, Flurry, Meredith, Kubik and others.



2 June 2015 at 02:53
Picking up on a theme that runs through the last few posts, I believe that this all has to do with control, whether it is Germano, humorless ministers or PCG events. And I believe that it starts with HWA. HWA had a disdain for the average member of the WCG. This is not something that I am asserting as a matter of opinion. This can be established by going back and reviewing what he said and what he wrote. In fact, most lay members in the WCG heard this viewpoint repeatedly.

1. HWA regarded lay members as just a resource for his use. They were called to help him "do the work" which involved large amounts of money and some questionable activities that to this day seemed to have produced nothing. Their salvation was of no importance. If lay members were not ready to impoverish themselves for the work, then God could raise up stones to do the job. (Nobody ever called him on this point.) He was not trying to make the point that the funding of lay members was not needed - he was making the point that they were essentially worthless in his sight and in God's sight. They could easily be replaced by stones. Explicit in this view is that God had no personal attachment to lay members or their salvation. (All this form the guy who touted the wonderful human potential as an advertising ploy.)

2. HWA in a tape played across the country, found the budget to be short and angrily blamed this on self-indulgent lay members. In this context, he stated that he did not expect lay members to receive salvation. He only expected the leaders and ministers of the WCG to receive salvation.

3. HWA repeatedly chided lay members by stating that they just wanted to "get" salvation. He converted what Christians would regard as the hope and glory of salvation, highly to be desired, evinced by God himself, into something shameful, evil and wicked all in the interests of squeezing more blood out of the turnip.

Oddly, lay members read and listened to this for years yet fanatically remained loyal to HWA and seemed to believe that he had their interests at heart when he proclaimed over and over again that he did not and was utterly hostile toward them for not coughing up enough money. You can't say the guy wasn't honest, at least about this. It was Joe Tkach, Sr. that actively elevated the salvation of the average lay member to something important. This particular change was revolutionary - a complete sea change in the WCG. This was an abandonment of HWA's view of derision and an alignment with Christianity. This new view was presented in an editorial in the Worldwide News written by TKach Sr. and people in the WCG were so brain-washed that nobody I know even noticed. I would bet that most even today do not know this happened.

-- Neo

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

More than once I witnessed HWA go into screaming fits at members. He treated so many of them like dirt. They certainly were his cash cows.

Anonymous said...

Some people on here are lying.

orange 65 said...

The headline here is wrong.
i would agree with it in part only....as usual many are being tarred with the same brush, when in reality its just ''big names'' ruining it for the rest of the Shepherds who try to do a humble work

Sweetblood777 said...

HWA as the Hebrew states means 'covet.' HWA was the greatest coveter on earth next to Satan. He was as you stated, not concerned one little bit about the flock of Yahshua. A careful read of Zech.11:15 to 17 clearly shows that these scriptures apply to no other than HWA. He was the worthless shepherd that Yahweh raised up.

Chap. 13:7 to 9 shows what will happen to the flock that HWA had disdained. The flock is going to be blessed. Some will perish for continuing to put men before the Most High, but repentance is open to them.

I know that many would say that this can't possibly be, but the scriptures state otherwise. HWA was a coveting SOB that was never converted. He stole truths from others during his six month study putting the pieces together as a puzzle, and then falsely claimed that he was given them by God. His lying tongue and huge ego didn't enable him to give the credit to where it rightly belonged.

Anonymous said...

Didn't HWA refer to the membership as "well trained dumb sheep" when asked by someone if they would accept a change he made? Didn't he also refer to the membership as "well trained dumb sheep" when asked if he was afraid that members might be out on a Friday night and just might see him dancing with his daughter that he had an incestuous affair with?

Anonymous said...

If you can listen to HWA's Friday night Bible Studies to the brethren, he is so gentle, and would warn us of ministers (even in the WCG) that were wolves in sheep's clothing. This did happen as many of these ministers and their followers turned aside from the Bible truth, causing the great split of 3/4 of the church. Yes, HWA tried to warn us, may be got a bit emotional at times. I have noticed a big difference when I was a member of WCG during HWA's time and now being currently in one of the COC's, that many of the ministers now are very selfish and only there for the money, and treat brethren badly, who do not suck up to them.

Byker Bob said...

Unfortunately, 8:42, HWA's flaming outbursts of anger were more frequent and memorable than his "gentle" warnings that you recall. They were also a much more convincing act. We knew where the anger was rooted, because of the anecdote of Herb coaching his brother-in-law Walter into his award winning speech on labor unions. HWA was basically an actor.

BB

Anonymous said...

There is no question that 3:00 and 8:42 share valid opinions. Painting every COG elder with a wide brush is a little reckless. There are, and have historically been, elders in the WCG and its subsequent offshoots who were known for their humility and spirit of service.

The irony is that they were rarely rewarded with the plum assignments and positions. Of course, that wasn't why they conducted themselves the way they did, and they weren't concerned with such perks. Still, the problem this article points to was exacerbated by the ranks and positions and vice presidencies and all the rest of the things HWA instituted that caused otherwise normal people to compete tooth-and-nail for attention and promotion.

When a minister is concerned with who is noticing them, there is little room left for noticing who needs them. It is peculiar, then, that HWA instituted a system that emphasized the former instead of the latter.

Anonymous said...

I can't deny that there were "good" elders and ministers in the COG. However, because they sit by and don't speak up when they see abuse and mistreatment of members they are just as culpable as the perpetrators. They know better.

The so called "good" elders and ministers of PCG, LCG, UCG, COGWA and PCG are guilty of the the suicides, broken marriages, destroyed families and lives because they are helping perpetuate a system of gross abuse that has been going on for close to eight decades. When will they grow some balls and forgo the paycheck and speak out and truly be servants of the members? Then we will truly know who the "good" ones are.

Anonymous said...

That second PCG should have been RCG for David Pack's Restored Church of God.

Chuckles said...

Anon 2:04; Your comment means nothing unless you can be more specific and tell us what those lies are and prove they really are lies. Just because you don't agree with what someone says doesn't necessarily make what was said a lie. First of all check it out with an open mind to see if what was said true or false without just assuming, then come back and let us know what you are talking about.

Byker Bob said...

Chuckles is correct. In the ACOG world, people are often deprived from having certain facts, kept blinded to them, or schooled in rejecting them. Based on limited information, it becomes easy for these types to assume that someone is lying, when the so-called "liar" simply has more information. Their personal lie detector test is the official position or pronouncements of their church. If something disagrees, it is labeled (often falsely) as a lie.

BB

Anonymous said...

they have not believed 1 Peter 5:2-3...

Anonymous said...

Power corrupts. I can only speak for LCG but the closer you get to the top the less Christian the behavior. Think of LCG headquarters. You have people like Gary Ehman, Rod McNair, Don Davis, Wyatt Ciseilka and Rod Meredith (who is more corrupted with vanity, pride and a cut throat spirit than most I have encountered outside if the church). These men have historically documented character issues and more so than your average human being. The further you get from Charlotte, the better the ministers/ elders get. The smartest ones stay away from HQ's intentionally because they know what a brood of vipers it is. These men keep their focus on the fact they feel LCG is doing a work and doesn't vote (criteria those in LCG feel prove it's God's "true church")to keep themselves in the church despite their knowledge of the abusive behavior of the bad apples at the top. So many in LCG are just waiting for the old man to die to see what happens next. Will it get worse or will things improve? Only time will tell.