Monday, July 13, 2015

Living Church of God Facing New Turmoil after Disfellowshipping Woman Over Calendar Issues

Living Church of God continues to be rocked by one scandal after another.  Just as things start to calm down another issue pops up causing the LCG bigwigs to jump into damage control.

Recently a woman in LCG approached her minister with  information that she thought was vitally important about the calendar and that LCG was no keeping the proper calendar.  For the uber-legalists the proper calendar is far more important that anything Jesus ever did, said or accomplished.  These people place more weight in being as Jewish as possible than they do in being grace-filled hands of mercy in the world around them.

Rod Meredith  reacted swiftly to this woman and disfellowshipping her.  He then  sent a letter out to everyone in the Southern CA area letting them know that she had been disfellowhsipped.

Hello Members of the Body of Christ,

I am very sorry to have to address you on this matter. But, yesterday a woman who has been attending with us sent an email and a document to members of the Living Church of God claiming that she had a special understanding about the biblical calendar, and stating that the Church was wrong. She also sent it to members in another region and has stirred up trouble there. She was counseled by various of God’s ministers and offered articles explaining the calendar, but she has refused to accept the long held Church of God teaching. She told me, and implied in her email, that all the Church’s of God and all the ministers were wrong—false ministers not teaching the Bible. Instead she referenced the writing of a man who was disfellowshipped about 40 years ago by Herbert Armstrong, for his heretical beliefs and teachings.

Since she is preaching heresy, not willing to be shown the truth, damaging some people’s faith, and therefore causing division, I’ve had to tell her that she is no longer welcome among us and is disfellowshipped. If you have received this email you know who she is, and you are warned not to have contact with her.

Tomorrow’s Bible Study will cover the subject of God’s Sacred Calendar and the Hebrew Calendar we use today. In preparation, please read the attached articles.

The Living Church of God is struggling lately on maintaining unity in its church.  One issue after another has plagued LCG over the last few years causing the church to be constantly preaching about how "unified" the church is. 

Doug Winnail writes:

Beware of Misguided Ideas:  The Apostle Paul warned “in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1-4) and that many will not listen to sound doctrine but will prefer to follow their own ideas (2 Timothy 3:1-6; 4:1-4). The Apostle also warned that critics within and from outside the Church will try to divide the Church to gain a following (Acts 20:29-31). He pointed out that Satan will try various ways to mislead well-meaning people (2 Corinthians 2:11)—often new people (1 Timothy 3:6)—by appealing to the human desire to be in the limelight or be recognized as an authority (3 John 9-10). Numerous issues threatened to divide the early Church: foods, hair lengths, ideas about the resurrection, circumcision, etc. (see 1 Corinthians and Galatians). However, Paul’s consistent advice was to “Guard what was committed to your trust” (1 Timothy 6:20), to “hold fast” to what you have been “taught” (Titus 1:9-11) and “avoid foolish disputes” (Titus 3:9; 1 Timothy 6:3-5). When questions do arise over doctrine, the biblical example is to take the issue to the leaders of the Church for a decision (Acts 15:1-31). Nowhere do the Scriptures encourage individuals to take it on themselves to correct or “save” the Church. That is something that Jesus Christ will take care of in His time as He “builds” His Church (Matthew 16:18).  
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
LCG is having trouble "holding fast" to much of everything any more.  One issue after another has plagued the LCG over the last few years.  As Rod Meredith approaches his certain death due to old age, the LCG is facing an insurmountable mountain ahead of them.  Large factions do not want Jim Meredith to be given any power, others distrust Richard Ames who is the heir-apparent, other see the Charlotte offices as a cesspool of impropriety and corruption and others are tired of suffering under legalistic ministers in the field who are making their lives miserable.


otis cambell said...

If they keep kicking people out, they won't have anybody left.
This must keep old rod's blood pressure up. Stress will kill him.

Anonymous said...

Matt 18:12 “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."

Is anyone really that surprises that Meredith STILL isn't following the clearly written instructions Christ left us? Maybe he has a special Bible with all the words in red removed.

He is an ignorant, hateful, spiteful little man.

Byker Bob said...

Unfortunately, this poor woman was probably folowing the ancient example of HWA, who also had expected the COG-7 to respond positively to his new truths, by restudying, verifying, and growing in grace (well, not so much on that one!) and knowledge. And, of course, as we all know---they would have none of it, so he started up his own splinter group, and branded COG-7 as "Sardis". The name calling, and lack of open mindedness continues to this day!

I wonder how the Seventh Day Adventists would handle this. They are apparently noteworthy for retaining members, in spite of difficult situations. Meredith may have gotten rid of what he considers to be a problem, but he also got rid of a chunk of tithe money in the process. Surely there must have been a better way of handling this than making a federal offense of it and resorting to "my way or the highway."


Anonymous said...

The whole New Testament is full of men who prefer to follow their own ideas about all sorts of things. Paul did. Peter did. James did. John did. I never could figure out just how Jesus would correct anyone in his own time and in his own way. Church of God ministers and especially Leading Evangelist and Apostle types never correct anything and as far as I can tell, both Jesus and God are far too often missing in action or simply on vacation.

Anonymous said...

“Living Church of God Facing New Turmoil after Disfellowshipping Woman Over Calendar Issues”

It is neither desirable nor even humanly possible to go along with every calendar confused kook who comes stumbling along and bumbling along on the COG scene these days trying to spread the curse known as confusion of the mind, for such people are legion, just like the evil spirits behind them.

This does not mean that you have to go along with RCM's own doctrinal “upgrades” either.

Anonymous said...

“Living Church of God Facing New Turmoil after Disfellowshipping Woman Over Calendar Issues”

Maybe the crazy old calendar woman (not the pretty young calendar girl) just forgot to try to explain first that she is not really making calendar changes at all, and that she is just teaching what HWA had actually taught all along, and that HWA would have wanted her to grow in knowledge, and that HWA would be happy for her and her calendar “upgrades” and changes that she is not making.

Anonymous said...

"...claiming that she had a special understanding about the biblical calendar, and stating that the Church was wrong...she has refused to accept the long held Church of God teaching. She told me, and implied in her email, that all the Church’s of God and all the ministers were wrong—false ministers not teaching the Bible. Instead she referenced the writing of a man who was disfellowshipped about 40 years ago by Herbert Armstrong, for his heretical beliefs and teachings...Since she is preaching heresy, not willing to be shown the truth...."

How can people "know" the difference between what is "wrong," "false," or "heresy," and what is "the truth"? Especially when it comes to things that are as open to objective observation and rigorous methodical measurement as time and astronomy?

How does the pope "know"? How did Herbert Armstrong "know"? How does Rod Meredith "know"? How does this woman "know"? How do scientists "know"? How do you "know"?

How come scientists are able to reach consensus about such basic issues, and make progress at defining ever more rigorous standards for measuring time and accounting for the motions of astronomical bodies, yet the COGs can't even agree on the most basic and rudimentary facts?

And then, so many COGy people, each at odds with everyone else, claim, upon no basis at all really, they have "special" unique "knowledge" or "understanding"? This woman is only doing the same thing that RCM and HWA have already done. But then heresy is not determined by any rational basis, it's determined politically, and the politics are not on this woman's side, so, that's the only reason why she's the heretic, and not HWA and RCM. HWA claimed to have "special understanding" too, but he was also full of shit.

My only question is, since when were objective facts determined by politics? Since never, that's when. So then, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, right?

Redfox712 said...

HWA taught that the Holy Days are still in force for Christians in order to alienate us from mainstream Christianity so that we would feel we had no choice but to join his following.

Many of those who joined thought HWA was just telling them the truth. Actually HWA presented his ideas in an attractive way not because they were true but because he wanted them to join his following.

So inevitably someone turned the tables on him and argued that some detail of his was wrong. They sincerely believe that HWA was just a man seeking to tell the truth.

But the real purpose HWA's reasoning was to get people to join his following. So of course such persons who contradicted him were viciously kicked out.

Armstrongites will be arguing over Calendar issues as long as they exist as factions of a movement.

It is terrible that LCG has utterly failed to take into account that disagreements such as this are bound to occur and, instead of being cordial over such disagreements, viciously disfellowship a woman who in all likelihood was just doing what she thought was the right thing to do in the eyes of (Armstrongism's) God.

Anonymous said...

well I have to agree with Rod on this one...she's spreading falsehood among the members, e-mailing people directly, causing confusion.....and she refuses to listen.

those calendar folks are a lot like the names can't get through to them, their minds are made you just have to send them on their way.

Anonymous said...

RCM, did not write this letter the local elder in so cal wrote it. She resigned and then they decided to disfellowshipped her. (Damage control) She just asked for biblical answers and they were not able to provide answers. I highly doubt RCM even read her letter.

Anonymous said...

You'd think the Almighty would have better skills at explaining events, truth and the rules to mere mortals so as to avoid confusion. Better yet, man up and show up. Cut out all the confusing middlemen and explain it to everyone face to face. Problems solved.

Anonymous said...

If anon 11:45 is correct in that this woman resigned and then they disfellowshipped her, she is in good company. RCM always has to get the last word so if people know who you are and you stop attending, he has to disfellowship you to make it look like it was his idea to part ways. It's so junior high. "I break up with you! No, I super double break up with you!". Rod is infantile, reactive and overly emotional.

Anonymous said...

"Cut out all the confusing middlemen..."


Why does yahweh need middlemen? Why does allah need middlemen? For the same reason Zeus and Odin needed middlemen. Without middlemen, they wouldn't even exist.

Anonymous said...

Wait, so this woman emailed her "heresies" to everyone in 2 different congregations and just got disfellowshipped while Patrick & Elizabeth Scarborough got disgellowshipped and MARKED for telling Dawn Rothenbacher not to trust Bob League and Rod McNair with her objections over their treatment of Pete Rothenbacher?

Can anyone at LCG headquarters think that RCM's punishments are at all rooted in fairness or equality? He just does whatever he wants to whomever he wants to do it because there is no one willing to put his tyrannical actions in check. No two alleged crimes are ever met with the same punishments. It's all arbitrarily decided by RCM based on his emotions at the time.

LCG headquarters keeps harping on the members who only focus on the "loose bricks" and don't trust that God is working through LCG ministry.

This sort of abusive behavior by LCG ministry IS EXACTLY WHY WE DONT TRUST THAT GOD IS WORKING THROUGH THEM!!! When will they ever learn?

Anonymous said...

I like how Doug Winnail says it's not this woman's job to correct the ministry but that God will correct them if needed.

Seriously!? So, LCG members are just supposed to sit quietly like zombie drones and watch their ministers behave badly? LCG members are supposed to blindly accept Richard Ames wedding supper "upgrade" or Doug Winnail's falling away "upgrade" or the changes RCM made to the statement of beliefs and his teachings that whites will be resurrected before blacks or risk being accused of "causing division". But if a lowly member has an equally ridiculous idea/upgrade, she has to be cut from the body?

These people are insane.

Anonymous said...

Who is the guy HWA disfellowshipped 40 years ago?

Anonymous said...

Once again, instead of letting this woman quietly slip away, knowing that her ideas/emails would die down in just a few months (if her ideas really were unfounded), Rod Meredith chooses to be heavy handed and punitive because his enormous ego can never afford grace and mercy.

I can only imagine what it will be like in the Judgment Day when God gives Rod Meredith the exact amount of forgiveness that he has given others during his lifetime.

Are you ready for the Lake of Fire Spanky?

Black Ops Mikey said...

Oh, come now -- even the Jews know their calendar is wrong, but they can't fix it because they can't scrape together a Sanhedrin. What would Meredith do if they did? What if they fixed the calendar so that in 20,000 years or so, the Feast of Tabernacles won't be celebrated from Christmas to New Years? Would Meredith go along with it? Sorry, but the calendar is wrong. It's probably the case that if it were to be fixed Meredith would disfellowship anyone who kept the correct calendar at that point.

But this begs the question.

How does one truly keep, well, let's say, the Feast of Tabernacles? Let's see now... you have priests throwing heave offerings on to an altar to serve up barbeque, you have people bringing a tithe of their produce to eat, you have people drinking strong drink (and do please remember, this wasn't about distilled spirits, since they came from the School of Salerno in southern Italy in the 12th century) and most of all, you have true blue Israelites with DNA from Abraham -- not some hapless haplogroup wrongly typed -- who DO NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT!

Now there's one for you!

The Feasts were designed for the unconverted as physical rituals. As my good friend Alan Knight says, support for the feasts in the New Testament is weak.

So here's the deal: Herbert Armstrong committed incest with his daughter the first ten years of the beginning of his ministry, so he couldn't possibly be used by God to preach any kind of message, he got ALL his eschatology from G. G. Rupert in a library in Portland, he thought he was superior to the CoG7D because he had all this secret knowledge they didn't understand. It just seems to me that Herbert Armstrong was an unconverted heretic which the CoG7D holds as an autocratic liar as described by Robert Coulter. Note that the CoG7D is 10 times larger than all the Armstrongist churches combined -- meaning that the LCG is one of the losers. The Feasts are for the unconverted and we certainly seem to have stumbled upon a viper's nest of leaders spreading the "dung of Satan".

So the woman may have been technically correct (although unlikely because of the 9 calendars in use amongst the Armstrongists, none follow the one by Paul Woods which looks to be most correct) but it's all a moot point about the irrelevant. We aren't talking about redemption and salvation, we're talking about church cult corporate conventions as a sort of vacation from the oppressive iron fist of Satan's government where it's like the debauchery described in "Brave New World" in a once a year celebration. Yes, go ahead, eat, drink and be merry, take two aspirin and call your medical health professional for an appointment at your HMO to mitigate the damage done while on the way to, at, and return from the Feast. You may also want to lament the waste of money you didn't need to spend on something that is absolutely non spiritual.

The unconverted Meredith has a lot of gall to disfellowship someone when he has absolutely no authority to do so. But then, she's better off, isn't she? (I think the jury's out on that one -- ha, ha!)

What a bunch of abject fools.

Anyway, you can probably read all about it in that noise generator, The Journal.

NO2HWA said...

Anon 7:24. It is Bill Dankenbring

Anonymous said...

Black Ops Mikey said...

“Note that the CoG7D is 10 times larger than all the Armstrongist churches combined -- meaning that the LCG is one of the losers.”

Shortly after the breakup of the WCG in 1995, I met and asked a minister from the COG7D about the size of the COG7D and he said that they had about 5,000 people in the USA. This does show some growth when compared to the approximately 2,000 people it had when HWA first came into contact with it in the late 1920s.

HWA taught that the COG7D was the “Sardis era” of the true church. HWA did not mean this as an insult, and explained that it was a true era of the true church that did the work of God for a while, but that it was rather small and fruitless.
Now, some former WCG people who have grown to hate the WCG and HWA seem to be forever going on and on about how the COG7D is so large and successful. Nobody should get too carried away believing these stories. HWA's description of it is still the best.

Anonymous said...

“Living Church of God Facing New Turmoil after Disfellowshipping Woman Over Calendar Issues”

Noise Generators In The COGs

No wonder the apostle Paul seemed to think that women should be silent in church, and should listen and learn rather than mouth off all the time.

Those who have an unhealthy interest in confusion and division are always free to look up that noisy woman and her theories and see for themselves what they think of it all. Then, they can report back the details. Should anyone choose to accept this mission, good luck trying to argue with the demons behind such people. Personally, just the thought of women like that makes my ears hurt.

What??? Nobody else wants to hear her noise either?? Some people just wanted to make some noise themselves along with her noise to try to cause confusion and division?

Hmmm. Thought so.

Anonymous said...

Just because you do not agree with everything that RCM says and do not want him wasting your time and giving you an earache does not mean that you have to listen to all these other people and let them waste your time and give you an earache.

Glenn said...

The Church of God Seventh Day (HQ Denver) claims to have 300,000 members, per its website.

Black Ops Mikey said...

How stupid.

Robert Coulter, long time minister of the Church of God Seventh Day and one who has access to the internal records of the CoG7D says in his book, "The Journey: A History of the Church of God (Seventh Day)":

"Armstrong’s Philadelphia church has disappeared, while the Church of God (Seventh Day), which he described as Sardis, never experienced the “flash in the pan,” wealth or prominence he enjoyed. But it still lives! It continues to travel toward God’s eternal Kingdom proclaiming the gospel of Christ. It had no allusions of grandeur for itself. Its pace, while slow and faltering at times, never has been flashy, but its worldwide membership is approaching four hundred thousand, which matches or exceeds that of Armstrong’s church at the height of its glory."

Approaching 400,000.

And by the way, that makes The Journal: News of the Churches of God The Minority Report.

It should also be noted (again) that the CoG7D has proved its point that Herbert Armstrong was an autocratic liar. No description by Herbert Armstrong should ever be trusted at all.

Anonymous said...

RCM did NOT write this letter. There is no possible way this is his writing. A correction or proof should be provided by the moderator.

Anonymous said...

Annon 10:48

It's already been stated that RCM didn't write the letter but rather the local pastor.

Certainly RCM is fully aware of the letter and HQs most likely proof read it via email before the pastor was permitted to distribute it to all the members in 2 congregations.

The men at LCG headquarters are such control freaks there's no way a pastor would send such a letter out without first obtaining approval. Otherwise it would his head on the chopping block!

NO2HWA said...

Letters like this woman's disfellowshipment letter are written with the FULL endorsement of Rod Meredith. He knew exactly what the letter said and stands behind it.

Anonymous said...

Glenn said...“The Church of God Seventh Day (HQ Denver) claims to have 300,000 members, per its website.”

Black Ops Mikey said...“Approaching 400,000”

Can the COG7D ever give the number for the United States, or is that one of those impossible things, like expecting David Pack to give honest numbers rather than deceitful and misleading statistics?

Anonymous said...

Once again LCG has not been detailed and again is in ""Ă‹RROR"". The letter sent to all members states the man mentioned to have been disfellowshipped 40 years ago by HWA. He was disfellowshipped by JOE TKACH SR in 1987. He was a writer in the PT in the 1960-70's under HWA's direction. We received an '"APOSTATE CALENDAR" as a gift last year in LCG, with not God's Holy Days, but the worlds day's. When asked to please explain, they said that it went out by mistake, "nobody bothered to look at it", but the minister had explained the previous Sabbath that it had errors ??, but it was a gift to members. I would like to know, what the teaching of LCG, really is on the Biblical Calendar, we have not touched on it for year's. They should give a sermon on the subject, I DOUBT THEY WILL, they like to keep the sheeple in ignorance, I am sure a proper explanation was not given to the woman concerned, just the big stick of Meredith, Winnail, McNair, or whoever the pastor was.

Anonymous said...

I would like to point out evidence of how the ministry of LCG has a habit of consistently contradicting and/or ignoring the clear teachings found in the Holy Bible.

Doug Winnail says:
"Nowhere do the Scriptures encourage individuals to take it on themselves to correct or “save” the Church."

Oh really?

James 5:19-20 - New King James Version (NKJV), says the following:
Bring Back the Erring One

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

In the conclusion of the Epistle, the Apostle James is calling to the church’s attention the importance of endeavoring to correct and to save an erring brother (any member of the body of Christ, as well as the Church as a whole), if such an instance should happen, from wandering from the truth either doctrinally and speculatively, by embracing error; or practically, by falling into sinful practices. Either of these may be called "erring from the truth," because they are contrary to what the truth teaches and requires.

Doug Winnail and LCG are manipulating Scripture for LCG’s own personal benefit by isolating “proof texts” and “cherry picking” verses to persuade the uninformed that LCG’s interpretation of Scripture is correct. This is a clear practice of Spiritual Manipulation.

Spiritual manipulation is a technique used by some abusive churches and cults to control individuals and acquire gain, all the while giving the impression that their teachings are based on the Bible.

Anonymous said...

Don't worry LCG is now having more trouble than they can handle.... They are in full "circle the wagons we are being persecuted" for what we have done. Seems like someone has had enough and is going to make them pay and BIG time. Stay tuned more to come...

Anonymous said...

Annon 6:32 Your comment was very well written and totally accurate. LCG ministers act like they are beyond reproach and always right even though they are just men. They keep saying that we need to trust and believe in everything they say and do because they are the ministry of God's church and they are being "led by Christ".

There are two major problems with their theory.

One, they are JUST MEN. They are not Christ. Christ was the only One who was ever perfect; the only One who never needed to be corrected; the only One who didn't have pride interfere with His decisions and judgments. They get so confused about that. They are JUST MEN who are full of sin and FAR from perfect.

Two, we can see by the actions of many of the higher-ups in LCG that they simply ARE NOT being led by Christ because of the nature of their actions and the random, totally unnecessary "upgrades" that are causing divisions among God's people all for the sake of the men who came up with them feeling like they are extra enlightened because "new knowledge" has been revealed to them.

But if church members DARE to say, "you are just a man, I choose to believe my Bible over your word", that church member is in jeopardy of being disfellowshipped and slandered.

Anonymous said...

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Anonymous said...

To annon 10:25 it's hard to believe that LCG would be in "circle the wagons we are being persecuted for what we have done" mode because they lack the self-awareness to see that their unchristian actions have led to their difficulties. Rather, they will likely say that they are being persecuted because the devil wants to focus his attacks on gods true church.

They just don't get that bad things come to those who abusively use their power against Gods people. I'm guessing their consciouses are clear. They believe their own lies and think they have done nothing wrong.