Friday, November 27, 2015

Living Church of God tries to lure new members in with one of the most PATHETIC videos ever!

Those fun loving folk over at Living Church of God have come up with one of the most pathetic videos I have ever seen that is supposed to impress the public so much that they might want to join the Living Church of God.  Of course this is ONLY if God is calling them to the LCG because no one in their right mind would ever join it otherwise. It's quit obvious that none of the hundreds of splinter groups have ever been able to produce anything of the highest quality like the old Worldwide Church of God did.

Would someone PLEASE give Rod McNair a day job and get him out of the limelight!  Pathetically bad! Just wait till you get to Mario Hernandez towards the end.  That self serving arrogant fool is still as pompous as he was when he was a student in Pasadena.  I feel sorry for any of the Spanish speaking brethren that have to listen to this guy.

This video will NOT attract new members that will want to come with their wallets open.  Smearing Christians as pagan worshiping satanists thought out the video is not going to bring any sincere Christians into Meredith's dwindling empire.

My LCG source had this to say:

LCG has produced a new video that will be sent to GOTOs (people interested in the church). Someone should reverse engineer the video from a writing perspective. i.e. RCM isn't in the video, multiple bosses are featured but not named. Notice at the 16 second mark a minister has to tell RCM that it's time to wave at the camera, and RCM seems confused and say, "Oh!"

Maybe someone could play name that boss. 

At the 10:06 Rod McNair says, "If God is calling you, you can experience this too." Between the lines he's saying "If God isn't calling you, then never mind, you're going into the Great Tribulation and we'll see ya' in the second resurrection".


Anonymous said...

"Find out how repentance and faith in the death and resurrection of the REAL Jesus christ can transform your life. Discover the joy and peace that comes from living the way of life outlined in god's word, in obedience to his commandments, through his spirit."

Already did that.

All I "found out" and "discovered" was that the whole thing was a bunch of hooey!

The cost of being your typical fundy christian is pretty high, and the cost of blind obedience to a high-demand Armstrongist cult even higher. And what do you recieve in exchange? Joy and peace? HA!

As a young child being raised in the WCG, I believed what my parent's told me because I thought it was unreasonable to assume that so many "adults" could all be such credulous fools. I thought all these people must have really discovered this vaunted "joy and peace," Jesus christ really was transforming these people's lives, and the "holy spirit" really was was real, or else why would they keep doing what they were doing, especially when the cost is so high?

Of course, everyone in WCG was just doing the old fake-it-till-you-make-it routine. That's what everyone in LCG is doing too. Isn't that what ALL christians are doing? Jesus christ isn't transforming anyone's life, is he? And the fundy christians like we were are all busy blaming themselves for the fact they're not being transformed and don't have any extra peace or joy. Oh, if only I were better at living up to christian ideals, then, maybe I'd be good enough for Jesus to tarnish himself by making contact with scum such as I, right? But why would god wait to help you until you figured out a way to help yourself already? Yep, sure. Jesus only helps supermen, and since he didn't create any of those, we're all SOL. Except that's not a very comforting fairy tale, now is it? Makes no sense.

I'm perfectly willing to believe in the death of Jesus christ. His resurrection, however, strains credulity past the breaking point.

They try to lure people in by suggesting there's a mystery, something hidden and magical, and that only they can help you "discover" it. But there's nothing there. They're lying to you. I know, I've already taken their empty promises for a test-drive.

Byker Bob said...

The type of person who would be influenced by this video would be someone who takes everything that is said in a video at face value. In other words, someone who was not inclined towards second opinions, deeper theology, or additional research. The moment you dig deeper, doing your own research, what is said in the video falls apart, and it becomes obvious the group that produced it is a cult.

The most important history of their so-called "true church" involves what has happened with their prophecy mold over the past 65 years. That most recent history is actually the most vital factor that people should investigate prior to allowing these LCG people to co-opt their lives, and to make them financial codependents. Moreover, the exit interviews left by former members over at the Exit and Support Network should be taken very seriously, as they are indicative of the basic pathology of LCG, and for all intents and purposes, all the other ACOG splinters.

Mainstream Christians who might be considering LCG should be aware that when an LCG minister preaches that Jesus taught that His people would obey His commandments, that preacher does not mean the beatitudes and the two great commandments of the Lord, Armstrongism has made Jesus the God of the Old Testament, and therefore "His commandments" into the picked and chosen modifications of the law of Moses that LCG and Armstrongism have taught.

The bottom line is that there just aren't a heck of a lot of people today who are willing to naively accept the weirdness of Armstrongjism unchallenged. People are even immune to the threats of an apocalypse, simply because there are now a plethora of existential threats, and many of these threats have been proven to be capabble of being diminished or handled by the humans who are actually threatened. Also, because of the popularity of atheism and agnosticism, folks are just not affected by the threat of eternal death. Many today actually consider that to be the perfectly normal ending of it all.

At best, this is an amusing and anachronistic presentation. It is the "Reefer Madness" of the Christian fringe community, except in this case we are referring to the ghastly menace of Armstrongism. My caution to those who view it would be to get the real facts, do your own research, and don't open yourself to the horrible abuses which will result from being taken in by these people.


Anonymous said...

giving people a sense of belonging, equality, fairness, justice; refraining from hypocrisy; having a reputation for being a loving family oriented organization; employing kind, emphathetic ministers;

refraining from using tithe money to enrich the hierarchy; having a reputation for serving the poor both within and outside the Church; distinguishing the Church from churches of the world by refraining from political endorsements (tacit or otherwise), racial bigotry and right-wing rhetoric...

these are just a few of the things lcg could do to promote itself and the Gospel, and the fact that they have not is in direct correlation to their stunted growth...

Anonymous said...

Rod McNair is one of the least "converted" evil men I have ever known in my life. Wyatt Ceiselka is disgustingly arrogant, known for lying and bragging (he really thinks he's great). Seeing their faces in this video made me feel sick. It brought back so many unpleasant, hurtful memories associated with my time in LCG.

And poor Anthony Stroud. Doesn't he know that they only used him in this video in an effort to repair LCG's public reputation as racist? Does he realize that they think he will rise to meet Christ in the clouds AFTER the whites do?

It's all razzle dazzle.

Even if this video lured new Meredith subjects into the fold, it wouldn't take long before any rational person with half a brain became disillusioned with all the backbiting, control and bullying that goes on in LCG.

It's a brood of vipers no doubt. Been there. Done that.

Anonymous said...


Minimalist said...

If "God's people" are the "Modern Israel(White) people of the earth",
including "the (white) people of South Africa"(those who haven't yet left?)
Then how come the only growth in new members of the "True Church" are Black & Brown people?!?

Anonymous said...

When does it end?

Anonymous said...

It's interesting that they didn't have any panned congregational shots of the glorious and elaborate Charlotte Scottish Rite Temple.

If God is really super okay with being worshipped from that alter and God's leader on earth, RCM, deems it as perfectly acceptable... it seems they should have proudly shown the headquarters congregation in their propaganda video.


Minimalist said...

In Armstrongism's ephemeral Golden Age, the line was that their message was primarily for the "Lost 12 Tribes of Israel" [Translation: Flak their crap to affluent markets for maximum R.O.I.]

They even mention South Africa! How is that again? God planted White there to Rule & Kick Ass? Well, that worked out well didn't it!

Now on the video they feel obliged to Flog that tired old British-Israelism one--more--boring--time, but the old Business Model is out the window: The only people buying Armstrongism today are a scattered few People of Color!

Anonymous said...

The Hill and Wang Critical Issues Series: concise, affordable works on pivotal topics in American history, society, and politics.

Manifest Destiny: American Expansion and the Empire of Right

Anders Stephanson explores the origins of Manifest Destiny--the American idea of providential and historical chosenness--and shows how and why it has been invoked over the past three hundred years. He traces the roots of Manifest Destiny from the British settlement of North America and the rise of Puritanism through Woodrow Wilson's efforts to "make the world safe for democracy" and Ronald Reagan's struggle against the "evil empire" of the Soviet Union. The result is a remarkable and necessary book about how faith in divinely ordained expansionism has marked the course of American history.


Anonymous said...

Stephanson's work assumes a comprehensive perspective in a relatively slim volume. Unlike previous works, it emphasizes the role of Christianity as a principal ideological driving point.


Anonymous said...

The producers here thought it would be great to use the technique, effective elsewhere but completely INeffective here, of bouncing the message between several speakers. Fails because, except for recognition noted here among ex-COGers, nobody knows who any of these people are, and there is nothing to make anyone want to find out. I understood everything said, even given that there are participants here for whom English is not their native language. Someone seeing this "cold" would be put off by that, not impressed, as they intend, by the "diversity" they are attempting to show exists in LCG.

Other failures:
Too many "send in for our booklet" messages -- who wants to send in for anything anymore? Being able to get something free for the price of a stamp, a VERY old hook (and an important one in my getting caught by Herbert's lies) is laughably outdated now. (Outdatedness has already been noted here.)

Too many Scriptures. How is giving all those things to "look up yourself" going to hold the attention of someone who's already drifting off less than an minute into the thing?

And thus far I've said nothing about the content, which is a working definition of "same old same old." No one is frightened by prophetic warnings anymore -- they have failed too often. And nobody seems to have thought about how putting that in completely counteracts the "loving, obedient" church drivel they throw at you the rest of the way.

NO2HWA is right. Pathetic.

Connie Schmidt said...

Is it just me or does Rod McNair strike someone as a parody similar to "Max Headroom"??

(Highlight link, then right click and then click "Go To Url")

Anonymous said...

Hernandez sounds like Bela Lugosi!

Anonymous said...

You've done it again. You have set off another firestorm here in Charlotte! There are HQ men just spitting mad right now. I think they are more upset they have come off looking like incompetent idiots rather than the fact that they have produced something that is of such poor quality. There are going to be interesting conversations at church today! lol

Byker Bob said...

The technique of using team presentation is supposed to add to the overall strength of the message. Stand up a bunch of well-groomed people in suits and it is supposed to make the presentation more authoritative. If there are some well-knowns amongst them, that would be helpful. I am sure that their competitor, Dave Pack, realizes this, and that's why he considered it to be such a coup for him to land farmer Dale.

Over in Los Angeles, in the television industry, there is a device known as "The Preview House". The public is invited to this venue for the purpose of pre-viewing programs and commercials, and then critiquing them, so that the creative people involved can indulge in further tweaking, to boost the basic receivability or effectiveness. In a sense, this is what we have just done, without fanfare, for LCG's message.

The flaw, of course, in using us as a focus group, is that as a group, Armstrongism did not work for us. In fact, it was detrimental in most cases, to our lives. Also, further education has ruled it out as any sort of working philosophy. What I would suggest to any of these ACOG groups who want to produce such programs is that they roll it before a focus group prior to releasing it. Not a focus group consisting of their own brethren, but of unbiased, neutral parties who have never heard of Armstrongism, or the particular splinter involved. Allow these people to critique the presentation via a professionally crafted questionnaire. Do it in several geographic areas to eliminate regional bias. Then re-evaluate, re-tweak, and perhaps release it.

For sure, the LCG presentation is miles above those who would have crooked items in their backgrounds, those who would allow weird noises resembling flatulence to remain in the ambient white noise, and those who would wildly flail their hands. But, it has a long way to go before it would reach the plateaus of, or surpass, a Garner Ted Armstrong program. In a sense, these people put this together probably based on suggestions some of us right here who have witnessed the proliferation and effectiveness of infomercials had made in the past. But, this thing clearly needs some more work.


R.L. said...

I'm glad Anonymous/07:45 explained the producers' intentions for the video. This struck me more as an "audition reel" - with various people trying out for on-air roles, similar to what a talent agent might send a TV News Director or Casting Director.

Trouble is, they could all use a dose of heartfelt enthusiasm for what they're promoting.

Assuming Anthony Stroud is the African-American man, he's one I probably would be most interested in watching.... for a fun Southern accent weyyy-der than Tim McCarver used to have calling baseball games.

Charlie Brown said...

It's hard to get past McNair's winey ass voice. Anon 4:30 is spot on about arrogant, lying Ceiselka.
Then you have Winnail Jr. They should wait until he looks like he's at least eighteen before he preaches.
The insiders all know about the dumb asses, but they just set back and take it. It's disgusting!

RSK said...

Well, at 0:04, this director said "ARGH... NEVER dissolve between identically composed shots!" and couldn't watch any more. Total amateur mistake even before the five second mark. Aside from that first speaker sounding ridiculously hammy, that's all I managed to stomach.

Byker Bob said...

What would really capture the public's attention would be one of these spokespersons actually having something intelligent to contribute to the various public debates, something that would capture the imagination of, and resonate with a cross section of the general population. By this, I do not mean glomming on to right wing extremism, and simply requoting a partisan viewpoint. I mean getting ahead of it all, getting out there in front with some really incisive ideas.

You could say many things about GTA, but back in the late 1960s, he appeared to be in the very vanguard of the emerging environmental movement, which was even then the proprietary property ot the liberals. His programs on this topic were well-researched, and he captured the imagination of many people who would not normally have been part of his core audience. Right now, the issue of climate change is literally exploding. The international criminals whose pronouncements that it was all based on junk science have delayed the desperately needed human actions to counteract it are being recognized as having spread disinformation. You really can't contradict time lapse photography of the Arctic melting away, glaciers rapidly contracting, and the deaths of species dependent upon those environments. Nobody in LCG or any of the ACOGs is jumping on this GTA style. Shallowly and weakly, they write it off as God's punishment, unexplored and unexposed to their public.

There really isn't anyone in all of the current crop of broadcasts with the genuine spontaneous courage and enthusiasm to get controversial, and to really stimulate something (anything!). There is no sense of urgency, no simple refusal to be ignored. Like Professor Chaos, they do lame and impotent things, while fantasizing major results that just cannot be. The constant failure of their prophecy mold has greatly depleted the sense of urgency, thus becoming self-fulfillment of their fears of Laodecean luke warmness. People generally speak most convincingly from what is overabundant within them. This is a movement that is clearly out of fuel. And, let us all be thankful for that!


Anonymous said...

"The international criminals whose pronouncements that it was all based on junk science..."

Such hyperbole can only serve to undermine your other salient points BB. :)

Minimalist said...

P.A.announcement at Johannesburg Airport in 1979:
Mr Botha, White courtesy phone!..Mr Botha, White courtesy phone!"

Anonymous said...

The high school/LU team must have put this video together. Who are these guys? We know LCG lives in fear and are afraid of their shadows but come on, give names of these men! Also, these guys must be extremely boring to listen to because the camera made them look like they had no energy at all. Their delivery made them look like they hadn't slept in days. Not the most dynamic group of men by any means. Not that any of this matters though. I hear most "GOTOs" are seniors...the 70+ demographic, so it's not like they would care or notice.

Byker Bob said...

Ssshhhh! Consider the target audience. Their mentor schooled them to always use hyperbole. Just trying to relate, although I did restrain myself when it comes to excessive caps and flamboyant punctuation marks.


Anonymous said...

The video almost put me to sleep.

It's representative of the sermons you will be forced to endure if you decide to attend with LCG. No energy, uninspired, boring, suck the life out of you mind control.

Same thing week after week. Same scriptures to prove the same points. Totally ignoring at least 30% of the Bible while droning on and on about how important it is for you to accept their authority just as you accept Christ's.

Anonymous said...

LCG has decided to do more mini-videos like this. It is rumored among the elite that they are considering discontinuing the Tomorrow's World telecast all together because TV is expensive and LCG's income is in the gutter. TV is one of many items on the table as budget cuts.

They've got to do something to compensate for the decrease in tithe payer revenue and the increase in spending due to Lil' Jimmy's flamboyant lifestyle and Doug Winnail's insatiable LU lust.

They've already fired 2 or 3 full time ministers and sent out letters and sermons begging and pleading for members to send in as much money as possible.

The death of LCG is imminent. I predict 2016 will be the year of bankruptcy for old Roddy boy and crew and I couldn't be happier about it.

Anonymous said...

Don't know why they would discontinue the TW telecast since they would just go to their YouTube channel instead of going out to television stations. And I don't see them doing away with TV since that's something HWA did and one can't break away from tradition!

Who are the 2 or 3 full time ministers they fired? All I ever hear is that they can't hire enough or there's a shortage of LU grads to put into the field. One can't be used in LCG unless they are a LU grad or taking LU classes (at $300 a pop). It's all about the money folks. You pay to play.

Scared by LCG said...

Thanksgiving fight week was rough to get through … and then this video comes along. The winner at Thanksgiving was the one who could sound the most like RCM while shouting down the others. After watching this video, I can see where the LCG FAMILY members picked up the same hand movements to punctuate their odd intonations – they are exactly like LCG ministers! I felt very, very, very sorry that those of the family who never had a COG background had to witness such ugly confusion. What a disgusting cult! I’m so embarrassed of, and at the same time, worried for my LCG family members!

Anonymous said...

I remember Scot Winnail as being a decent kid. But he sure did turn in to a Stepford minister. What a manufactured robot. I thought his father’s dyed comb over was pathetic but, is Scot’s hair even real? It looks like one piece of plastic capping his head. Is it a cheap toupee? I guess Scot is the one in the video who bothered me the most. Maybe that is because I have always known that the older ones are assholes. It took me a bit but I finally figured out whose facial expressions he was impersonating. I bet Scot is trying to look like his father, which he does, but his facial expressions are a dead ringer for Jim Carey’s portrayal of the Grinch! He over emphasizes his words and sounds like a professor talking down to kindergartners. Merry Christmas Scot, you will not be stealing my Christmas.

Byker Bob said...

That's the problem, 4:54. When you attempt to have a conversation with relatives who are ACOG members, you are not really having a conversation with them per se so much as you are having a conversation with their church. You could read their recruitment magazines or booklets and come away with just as much a sense of having visited them. Moreover, they are so headstrong in expressing these things, that nonmembers come away with the idea that, "Boy! These people believe they are the only ones right about everything!"

If you do make an effort to try to take the high road and have some sort of relationship with them, as some whom I applaud have attempted, you are going to have to conduct it with the express knowledge that "they" (ACOG family members) believe you are deceived, and not of a right mind even as you realize that they have imbibed of the serious Kool Aid of one of the most dastardly religious scams of all times. It's a pretty uncomfortable situation, and probably involves much fakery to even deal with, about which you will most likely feel embarrassed and guilty for weeks and months following the visit.

The relatives who were never part, though they seem perhaps the neutral or benign parties, all have their memories of helplessly watching you as a child being abused and denied medical attention years ago. Even if you want to forgive and forget, they can't or won't forget, and end up not letting you forget.

So much for turning the hearts of the children to the fathers. Armstrongism renders families FUBAR. The sad thing is that you have just updated this sad situation many of us grew up in into the present. I should have hoped that the family wrecking aspects of "God's True Church" had been part of the distant past. I personally believe we'll only be able to have our family relationships back when Jesus straightens out everybody's thinking, not any of our ways or the Armstrong way, but the right way.


Anonymous said...

WOW! Pathetic is the word for this!
It’s such a weird mix of over-exaggerated hand gestures and unnatural attempts to tonally exaggerate some key words - versus - very sour facial expressions, especially noticed around the down turned mouths of the speakers. What a turn-off for any seeker – and then there’s their twisted message too.

Anonymous said...

To quote the Spankster from Spokesmen’s Club, “These men are lacking in vim, vigor, and vitality!”

EX-RCG said...

No firestorms anywhere in the church.
Nothing ever rises to that level. It is all lukewarm and all bland.

I realized the legalism of the church was wrong when I forgot atonement 2 years ago. I woke up and went to work as usual. Since there is no local church it was easy enough to have happen.
Just completely forgot the day until about 10AM when it hit me. I was sick over it and afraid I had lost my salvation.
I calmed down and realized my atonement was paid for by Christ, not by my fasting or by keeping days, months or years.
And since Christ died once and for all and was always in the holy of holies why was I keeping a day he had fulfilled anyway? It no longer made sense to me.
That was the beginning of my eyes being opened to how legalism replaces Christ.
The commandment of Christ is to love one another as he loved us.
The only thing he asked of us was to observe a remembrance of his death until he returns.
The rest of the law is written in my heart. But the legality had pulled me away from Christ and towards my own works. That is dangerous.

Anonymous said...

I find it funny that when they show the congregations they are trying to portray that its such a huge group of people meeting weekly in their congregations when in reality these are clips taken from the FOT, and most likely the larger sites at that. You can easily tell because they have their FOT name tags on. If they actually did show the reality of the average congregation sizes I highly doubt any of these GOTOS would actually want to follow through and go to services with them. Even better.... "We're sorry, we do not have a congregation within 200 miles of you. Here let's make your household a video group".

Anonymous said...

I agree that all these presenters eat the dust of high school amateurs but the facial contortionist Scott Winnail is the uhm... I mean the BEST! Please, oh please, please let Scott be the new face of the LCG!

Ralph said...

on December 1, 2015 at 9:33 AM
EX-RCG said.

"The rest of the law is written in my heart."

I've heard that said so many times but I still don't know what it means and how it applies.
Could you, would you, please tell me?

Anonymous said...

"The rest of the law is written in my heart." ... I've heard that said so many times but I still don't know what it means and how it applies. Could you, would you, please tell me?

Ralph, I'll answer by using an analogy.

'doTERRA', an MLM (Multi-Level-Marketing) company sells essential oils, and touts their oils as being "CPTG Certified Pure Therapeutic Grade", which is deceptive and essentially meaningless, since that phrase is just something that doTERRA made up, and has nothing to with any real official outside certification. In reality, they are simply claiming they're great, and only 'certify' themselves, which is a "certification" that is in reality meaningless.

The many people claiming something 'is written in their hearts', or people claiming something is true because they've 'got the discernment of Holy Spirit' is not very different than the MLM 'self-certification' thingy.

It may be true in their minds, but not in reality. It's funny how the Holy Spirit seems to impart VERY different and conflicting 'truths' to different people.

These people are 'self-certifed' alright, and maybe even certifiable.

Anonymous said...


I am another anonymous who wants to address your post.

The law of the New Covenant is to be written on the hearts of believers.

The law of the Old Covenant was written on stone.

Our hearts were once stone but, now they’ve been made new.

The Old Covenant is gone – that’s why there is a new one.

The new one is superior to and very different from the old one.

Laws of the New Covenant are much deeper and broader than those of the Old Covenant – and God demands 100 percent perfect obedience to those laws.

However, with peace and freedom, very imperfect believers have no trouble delivering that perfect obedience because they are justified by a perfect Savior.

COGers know aaaall about the Old Covenant but, they’re trained very well to ignore the New Covenant.

COGers have no interest in and will not discuss New Covenant terms, like justification – they’re more interested in trying to earn their salvation and thereby be their own savior.

COGs have no handy booklets on the New Covenant, no sermons are preached on the topic, and you will never see one of their amateur telecasts on the New Covenant.

That is why you do not know about the law of the New Covenant that is written on the hearts of believers.

Anonymous said...


Same another anonymous addressing you again - the application part of the law of the New Covenant, written on our hearts, can be summed up in Jesus' words, "It is finished!" and are punctuated by the tearing of the temple veil.

Some paraphrase the Old covenant with the word, "DO!" while they encapsulate the New Covenant with the word, "DONE!"

One can never DO enough to earn salvation but because of what Jesus has DONE, we have the free gift of salvation.

Those who rest in Jesus the Savior, permanently rest from their own works because they have entered His Sabbath Rest.

Ralph said...

I have read the 'Anonymous' responses of 7.36 PM, 7.25 PM AND 8.21 AM and would say that I am no further enlightened. I can certainly understand and 'strive' to practice "The commandment of Christ is to love one another as he loved us." as EX-RCG said.

But perhaps someone could define "the rest of the law" thinking that 'rest' means remainder. So, just what is that, the remainder of the law?

I can't find the term "the rest of the law" anywhere in scripture.


Ralph said...

on December 3, 2015 at 7:36 PM
Anonymous said...

"....the application part of the law of the New Covenant, written on our hearts, can be summed up in Jesus' words, "It is finished!...."

Top what was He referring when He said "it is finished"? And do you have some scriptural support for your answer?

Ralph said...

ps. I suggest that what was "finished" was the work He was sent to do as in:-
"Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work."

Anonymous said...

What's even more pathetic than this video is now LCG is asking it's members to volunteer answering calls so that they can get rid of the call center they pay. It's right in the weekly update (12/3) for anyone wanting to see.

Anonymous said...

Ralph - same Anonymous here, the one who failed to provide further enlightenment.

You did not mention your current status with the New Covenant. Therefore, I have grave news for you.

A sure sign of demonic influence is when a Christen is disinterested in discussing or studying the New Covenant (those readers who are not interested in Christianity are cordially exempted from the demon-play)!

I suggest you immediately start studying to become an expert in the New Covenant! However, to do so, you will need to study outside of Armstrongism because, as I said before, the COGs avoid the subject as much as possible. Satan's evil at work is proven by the COG's distaste for the New Covenant, while endlessly gushing about the law of the Old Covenant.

Satan does have a vested interest in keeping you, Ralph, from knowing about God's latest and greatest covenant! Who will you follow?

Byker Bob said...

The Adventist movement reached their conclusions regarding their mandatory pick n choose holdovers from Old Covenant Law basically by parsing the law into various categories. As an example, the laws involving sacrifice were treated as having been replaced by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That is how they separated the sacrifices which had been considered an integral part of keeping the law of Moses from their practices taught today. The washings were said to have been replaced by baptism. The ministry of the church became the new version of the priesthood. They had a method to the pick and choose madness, and HWA largely subscribed to that methodology, actually bringing in even more elements of Old Covenant law, thus filtering the entire New Covenant (new wine) through the Old (old wineskins).

Based on his writings and his vision being taken at face value, Paul would be considered to have been the great explainer of the practical applications of the New Covenant, particularly through his epistles to the Romans and the Galatians. HWA both downplayed Paul, and applied the Old Covenant against his writings in a way that makes him appear to say the opposite of what his actual words mean. HWA's arguments along these lines are not very convincing. And, of course, there is a move amongst some to all but remove the writings of Paul and "pseudo-Paul" from the New Testament, thus debunking and deflating mainstream Christianity.

TGCOL (two great commandments of the Lord, also known as the law behind the law, or the Royal Law of Love) are the only guiding precepts of which we can be sure. The Beatitudes, and the Golden Rule both underscore this. Pharisaic legalism is based not so much on agape love but on pure willpower, stuff you do yourself. It makes people self-righteous, and causes them to look down on others. You can also keep the law in such ways that do damage to others, where Christlike forgiveness would be the much better course. Law simply legislates behavior, and the behavior it compels is based on fear of punishment, not on a transcendant or transformed condition of the heart. Legalism simply misses the mark. It was one of the intermediate stages, not the final one.


Ralph said...

ps. I wonder if those that follow this philosophy, ie. "rest of the law", really mean rest FROM the law.

What say you?

Ralph said...

on December 3, 2015 at 7:36 PM
Same another anonymous said:

"....the application part of the law of the New Covenant, written on our hearts, can be summed up in Jesus' words, "It is finished!" and are punctuated by the tearing of the temple veil...."

and I don't understand that in the least. For concerning the New Covenant this is what I find in both the Old and New Testaments:-

"Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

"Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

Can there be any doubt that these laws are those relating to unclean meats, keeping the Passover and days of Unleavened Bread, Pentecost and the rest of the annual Holy Days in conjunction with the Decalogue, ie. the Ten Commandments?


Trust In Jehovah
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places.” [Eph:6.12]

Ralph said...

on December 6, 2015 at 2:26 PM
same Anonymous said

"You did not mention your current status with the New Covenant."
and I think I covered that issue in my comment of December 3, 2015 at 7:36 PM.

You also said "A sure sign of demonic influence is when a Christen is disinterested in discussing or studying the New Covenant"
and that statement must surely put me outside of that kind of influence as I am most decidedly interested in discussing and/or studying the new covenant. It is my way of life. For even Solomon said "Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."
The 'Amplified' expands it thus:
Ecc 12:13 All has been heard; the end of the matter is: Fear God [revere and worship Him, knowing that He is] and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man [the full, original purpose of his creation, the object of God's providence, the root of character, the foundation of all happiness, the adjustment to all inharmonious circumstances and conditions under the sun] and the whole [duty] for every man.
Jeremiah foretold it here:
"Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."
and as Yeshua said:
"Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into [eternal]life, keep the commandments.
and from King David:
"Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Psa 119:98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me."

Is there any other way?


Anonymous said...


Same another, non-enlightening, Anonymous at your service again.

While reading your post, I got a serious attack of the heebie-herbie-jeebies!
The spirit of Satan is strong with you Ralph!

The evidence of Satan’s influence over your mind can be seen in how little you cared to researched the New Covenant. You skipped over anything about the superior nature of New Covenant and jumped back into the laws of the Old Covenant – the covenant God had to abandon because the people of that covenant, whom He had chosen, abandoned Him.

All the COG servants of the devil like to quote Scripture, as does Satan. On this topic, the COGers are fond of quoting Jesus’ words, spoken while He lived under the Old Covenant, about not one jot or tittle changing from the law until all had been fulfilled. Their indoctrination into evil leads them to tenaciously insist these words of Jesus mean that all law remains binding. Yet in some rare moments of clarity, they will admit that laws regarding sacrifice and circumcision have been changed.

These twisted spawn of Herbie plus Satan will never acknowledge the obvious contradiction between their belief that not the slightest bit of law can be changed and they’re abandonment of some of the most uncomfortable laws.

Even though COGers can’t fathom what Jesus did fulfil in order to initiate the New Covenant – and while they believe Jesus has yet to fulfill whatever it was He was jabbering about when He said not one jot or tittle would change from the law – they miss the point that Jesus said the law WOULD CHANGE, when He fulfilled something. That is the powerful sway Satan holds over your minds.

Although we are not sure whether they are classified as jots or tittles, certainly the now defunct laws regarding sacrifices are mighty big jots and/or tittles – therefore Jesus must have already fulfilled that all things He spoke of.

Satan has blinded the eyes of the COGs so that they can’t see what Jesus fulfilled. Satan desperately does NOT want you to know about Jesus and His New Covenant! Why do you insist on bowing under Satan’s deception, Ralph? Ah yes, the deceived don’t know they are deceived.

Ralph, during this season of lights, open your eyes to the Light that has come into the world! Repent now and you can say “Cheers” around the Christmas table – there is a seat, and a FREE GIFT, waiting for you!

Anonymous said...

Ralph, you cited Jeremiah 31:31 and Hebrews 8:10, and concluded with writing this:

"...Can there be any doubt that these laws are those relating to unclean meats, keeping the Passover and days of Unleavened Bread, Pentecost and the rest of the annual Holy Days in conjunction with the Decalogue, ie. the Ten Commandments?..."

God's words regarding the future covenant for the House of Israel, from both the OT and the NT, are consistently stated and you gave a good example of what laws will be associated with that covenant.

The people of Israel made a first covenant with God and it was broken before Moses got down off of the Mountain.

The next covenant God made with Moses and the Israelites and that is unbreakable from God's point of view...unbreakable in that it does not matter what Israel does. For example, we have:

Exodus 34:10 And he said, Behold, I MAKE a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.

The people did not make that covenant. God made it.

:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I HAVE MADE a covenant with thee and with Israel.

And yes, the ten commandments are associated with it.

:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

God weighs the spirits. He knows the human heart (Genesis 6:5, Jeremiah 17:9, Ephesians 2:2, Romans 7:17, 20-21, Romans 8:7, James 4:5, I John 3:8). He is working our His perfect Plan of Salvation to save all Israel (Isaiah 45:21-25).

Why didn't ancient Israel perform. Why was it such a problem for ancient Israel to observe God's Commandments? People may cite all sorts of reasons, but here is one very important one:

"Yet the LORD hath NOT given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day." Deuteronomy 29:4

Done deal! Although God's Spirit worked with many individuals in the OT, none of them were begotten to be sealed as Firstfruits. Jesus Christ was the first of the Firstfruits to be sealed. Even Isaiah knew he would be in the same resurrection as the Israelites (Isaiah 26:19) he lived amongst.

The covenant God made with Moses and the Israelites will eventually bear fruit, after they are all come up in the second resurrection, because God intends to pour out His Spirit upon all of them. God is not a respecter of persons; his Spirit will be poured out upon ALL mankind. God's Spirit will make a world of difference.

God created the nation of Israel, virtually from nothing. Well, there was Abraham and Sarah...and Isaac...and Jacob whose name was changed to Israel, and God made Israel happen from an absolute miracle. God does not intend to lose one Israelite, but God has His timing within His Plan. There are a lot of shadows and patterns that God has established for our benefit. God used the Israelites to teach us about God's Festivals, His commandments, etc. It's a long story, a big one, but destined to be a wonderful one of good news, before all is said and done, for more than just the Israelites, and eventually Satan and his angels will be taken and destroyed.

Among other things, ancient Israel proved beyond a shadow of the doubt that one will not, cannot, perfectly keep God's laws, God's commandments on their own; they needed God's Spirit dwelling within them...something this world, for the most part, cannot experience (John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world CANNOT receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.").


Ralph said...

Same another, non-enlightening, Anonymous

Do you inhale whatever it is you're smokin'? LOL


Ralph said...

on December 8, 2015 at 6:17 PM
Anonymous said..

"....they needed God's Spirit dwelling within them...something this world, for the most part, cannot experience...."

Agreed and, like some others, I believe I qualify for that special gift ie. "Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

"....for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."....

I know that He does and is!


Ralph said...

Same another, non-enlightening, Anonymous
of December 7, 2015 at 7:11 PM

If I have offended you with my "smokin'" line, I am truly sorry. I should have responded with what I know to be the truth ie.
"Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
knowing also that
"Mat_4:4 ...... It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


Anonymous said...


The another, non-enlightening, free to puff, and un-offendible Anonymous taking another swing:

Inhaling is essential to smoking and as much as I enjoying a mellowing smoke, I cannot imbibe with you. So don’t ask again, that’d be like partying with Satan, and I draw the line way before there.

I should know better than to toy with an Armstrongite. Your thought processes and pet verses are as predictable as they are lame – as is your resistance to any scripture that enlightens the New Covenant, the free gift of salvation offered by a Savior, and getting cozy with that Savior.
However, I was surprised you mentioned the gift of the Holy Spirit (HE who comforts) even while I knew you could not equate a free gift with salvation – because Armstrongites insist on earning their own salvation and will NOT accept it is as a gift –even though Scripture plainly says your works cannot earn salvation – it is a gift.

It’s funny to have heard Spanky Meredith periodically preach that LCG needs to preach more Jesus, just to go on to neglect Jesus and then repeat the cycle a few years later. He is now preaching a bit more Jesus, and catching some flak for that, but because he remains an Armstrongite, he still doesn’t get Jesus - just like the rest of Herbie's minions.

As you have displayed, COG theology has a history of neglecting key Scripture needed to understand the New Covenant, and rejecting salvation from Jesus alone. COGlodytes are known for thinking they know it all, as they sound like the Pharisees Jesus had to put in order. But their narrow command of Scripture is a testimony that that they are deceived.

Well Ralph, if you don’t want the Free Gift of the Christmas season, all I have left to give you is prayers.

Cheers & Puffs!

Ralph said...

on December 9, 2015 at 8:21 PM
The another, non-enlightening, free to puff, and un-offendible Anonymous said:

"....because Armstrongites insist on earning their own salvation and will NOT accept it is as a gift...."

Which indicates that I am not an "Armstrongite" as you suggest. I KNOW that salvation cannot be earned by works and don't at all understand why you consider Commandment keeping to be work. Most of them require us to 'refrain from' and if you class that as work??????, well, I question your approach to the meaning of the Greek 'ergo'.

With me, keeping the commandments is a matter of 'want to' for several reasons viz.
1. I know that Yehovah is a lot smarter than I am.
2. I know He has my best interests at heart.
3. I know that He has such love for me that He would die for me, paying a debt that I could not and continue to live on into eternity.

I would suppose that you don't keep the commandments because you don't want to. None of us "have to" unless we WANT to heed the words of Yeshua as in:
"Mat_19:17 ........ but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I guess you don't just want to "enter in to life".


ps. You also said "But their narrow command of Scripture is a testimony that that they are deceived." and it is noticeable that you don't quote much scripture in support of your theology.

pps. Thank you for your prayers.

Anonymous said...


The another, non-enlightening, free to puff, un-offendible, praying Anonymous, yet again:

You quoted:

Matthew 19:17: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

This is a classic example of a passage that Armstrongites, under Satan’s influence, butcher.

Jesus spoke these words while He lived under the law prescribed by the Old Covenant. He qualified to be our Savior by keeping that law perfectly. While keeping the law, Jesus hinted to the changes that were coming in this passage and many others. Jesus said many things in this passage that the COGs ignore so that they can frame it to suit their purposes.

The passage starts with the rich dude asking Jesus what he must do to win the big prize. Jesus told him he must keep the commandments and rich dude says, sweet; been doing that all my life. Then Jesus adds something that the Armstrongites ignore. Jesus told him to first sell all that he possessed and then to follow Him.

Ralph, have you sold all you possess? Do the COGs teach that giving everything to the poor is necessary to enter salvation? If the level of demonic influence you’re under permits any modicum of honesty, you'll agree the answer to both questions is no.

I was just listening to the immortal words of Florence (; she was singing that it’s hard to dance with a devil on your back – the same goes for reading Holy Scripture, so shake it out, shake it out. Shake it out and stop lifting words out of context to fit the COG narrative. Those not under the same sway can read the entire context and see how messed up your theology is.

Throughout this discussion, and with this verse you cite now, you demonstrate you do not have a command of the scriptures. If you did, you would easily recognize the passages I was earlier referencing without mentioning their chapter and verse.

I’m out of time for tonight but, I hope you will re-read the entire chapter of Matt 19 and you could try the passage from Matt 5 that I referenced earlier – the one in which Jesus said that not one jot or tittle of the law would change until all had been fulfilled and tell me if you think that the removal of the laws on sacrifices is a rather huge jot and/or tittle. Then, if you’ve shaken out the devil, read Romans 6:23 and notice the word gift. I guess reading the entire booklet of Galatians without the Armstrong devil on your back is too much to ask.

I’m happy to cite all the verses I’ve referenced in earlier posts and many more but, first can you honestly answer the questions I’ve raised in this post?

Cheers, Puffs, and Prayers!

P.S.: Your supposition that I do not desire to be obedient is incorrect. I have a perfect record of obedience. Try using something like Bible Gateway to research the New Covenant terms justify and justification to learn how a wretch like me could achieve perfect obedience.

Ralph said...

The another, non-enlightening, free to puff, un-offendible, praying Anonymous,
December 10, 2015 at 7:34 PM

Considering the attitudes and senses of value of the both of us, I see no value in continuing our discussion.
This is my last post on the matter.


Anonymous said...


The another, non-enlightening, free to puff, un-offendible, praying, rebuking Anonymous, for the last time:

I understand, Ralph. Armstrongites must avoid anything that may challenge their way of thinking. I will add you to the journal I’m keeping about how COG avoidance of the New Covenant is a sure sign of demonic influence.

Cheers, Puffs, Prayers, and Rebuking the Devil!