Friday, March 25, 2016

Church of God legalists in desperate search for "vegan" wines and "mature" barley grains in time for Passover



The uber-legalists of the Church of God are eagerly awaiting the first mature grain of barley to be found in Israel.  In their desperate search they don't concentrate upon farm fields, but spend their time running around the country look for wild barley along side the roads, in parks, along side sidewalks, and anywhere else they can find it.  It's like a treasure hunt to see who can find a ripe grain first.

The Chief Pharisee of the Churches of God, James Malm, is reporting this about the idiotic hunt for a single mature grain of barley.

Update on the barley in Jerusalem… 
I live close to a large park here in central Jerusalem called Bustan Lior – Lior’s garden. It is a large park, about two city blocks, on the slope of a steep hill that is left in a natural state and has heavy concentrations of wild barley. And there is a remarkable variation in the levels of maturity of the barley just within this two block area. All the barley has developed to the stage where the stems have elongated and the seed heads have emerged. Some have developed further to the flowering stage. Some have developed further to the milk stage. 
Some have developed further to the soft dough stage. None has yet developed to the abib stage in this park. Nor have I found any abib barley anywhere in Jerusalem where wild barley grows in almost every open spot, and I look every day as I walk along the streets.   
I will make another update when I find abib barley here in Jerusalem. Thanks.
Next it seems that the Chief Pharisee and his devotees are on a search for wine that is vegan in order to maintain their hypocritical religious purity.  They mooch off of others for all the money they can get and treat non-believer family members like dirt, but are oh-so-righteous when it comes to their wine.
“The majority of people are unaware that wine, although made from grapes, may have been made using animal-derived products. During the winemaking process, the liquid is filtered through substances called “fining agents.” This process is used to remove protein, yeast, cloudiness, “off” flavors and colorings, and other organic particles. Popular animal-derived fining agents used in the production of wine include blood and bone marrow, casein (milk protein), chitin (fiber from crustacean shells), egg albumen (derived from egg whites), fish oil, gelatin (protein from boiling animal parts), and isinglass (gelatin from fish bladder membranes).
All of this foolishness reminds me to the legalists that infected Pasadena HQ for decades.  They demanded that students scrub the teakwood floor in the student center with tooth brushes to get any crumbs out of the cracks and to use toothbrushes to clean the crevices of the dining hall chairs.  Others went into catatonic fits over thousands of pounds of baking soda that were used in the natatorium pool.  They demanded it be thrown out. We of course refused, which infuriated the hypocrites even more.  While these same men were breeding like rabbits with coeds and were major alcoholics, there could be no bread crumbs to be found in their sinful lives.

What more can expect from men and women who worship the law more than they do that inconvenient  dude who said a lot of really inconvenient things that irritate the legalists.

28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.  Luke 10: 28-30 



76 comments:

DennisCDiehl said...

We shall look souse for the true wine but we have barley a chance of finding it. Our pictures are all turning out grainy and we are idiots

Anonymous said...

Since Monsanto Starlink corn has reportedly been found as far afield as the Andes mountintops, Malm had better have his people sequence the genome of their "wild" barley to make sure it really is wild. Heaven help them if they determine their calendar based upon genetically modified barley. I'm sure Yahweh would pitch a fit.

Black Ops Mikey said...

It's too bad he didn't read the latest The Journal to find out that the CoG7D (as well as the Seventh Day Church of God) do not use wine, since it is 'corrupted': They use the fruit of the vine instead (grape juice). And how could that be? No one could make grape juice that time of year in Israel. CoG7D answer: Made from raisons. From Paul Woods, Seventh Day Church of God: They made grape juice and sealed the ceramic containers with wax (the same way he does for the Lord's Supper, using the grapes from his arbor there in Idaho.

As for James Russell saying that wine is 'living' and that is why it is used, nothing could be more stupid. Wine has alcohol -- not only is it used for killing bacteria, the yeast that made the alcohol died in the alcohol. How is that living? Moron.

Of course, the whole thing is rather moot, seeing as how the gospels were written around 90 A.D. or so by people who had never even seen or met Jesus. It would be like someone hearing about Herbert Armstrong in 2016 and creating a book about his life from verbal stories told by the great grandchildren (unbelieving non members) of former Worldwide Church of God members who have been deceased for a couple of decades. Not the best source. Wait. Did Jesus actually exist?

And also, since many of the books of the New Testament seem to be forged in the first place and the gospels in the Bible are only 4 of around 40 (and six of the 'Apostle' Paul epistles seem to have been forged) and with the epistles of Paul predating the 'gospels', it's rather difficult to imagine taking questions of wine and barley seriously in this context.

I mean, this whole topic seems to be major fail on all fronts, brought to us originally by a false prophet. It would be more impressive if the person raising these questions could cite Scripture where a false prophet is used by God to teach His people.

Anyone?

Byker Bob said...

What I'd like to know is what if these barley searchers were out there doing their thing, and a poor Palestnian family suddenly walked up and asked them for some spare change for food and water.

BB

Ralph said...

For the 'true' Armstrongites, Karaite Korner is likely the best source of information regarding 'Abib' barley.

see 'HERE'

Redfox712 said...

HWA was wrong to appropriate Jewish traditions and doctrines for his own following. This was a wrong against the Jewish and the Jewish religion which is precious to Jews.

The Armstrongite appropriation of Jewish traditions is wrong. It cheapens traditions and practices that are precious to the Jewish people. Imitating them in the selective manner that Armstrongites do cheapens and degrade Jewish traditions.

I am now convinced that there is noting respectful to Jews in exploiting their traditions and reinterpreting them in Armstrongite ways. The Armstrongites are not Jews. These traditions should be respected by leaving them alone. Now that would be more respectful to Jews than this exploitation of Jewish traditions.

Ralph said...

on March 25, 2016 at 12:58 PM
Byker Bob wrote:
"What I'd like to know is....etc"

Why not ask them? I'd be game if I really wanted to know. Tell us if you get any answers.

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

It would be like someone hearing about Herbert Armstrong in 2016 and creating a book about his life from verbal stories told by the great grandchildren (unbelieving non members) of former Worldwide Church of God members who have been deceased for a couple of decades.

It would be like basing your view of HWA on Stephen Flurry's Raising the Ruins instead of on HWA's court depositions in the divorce case.

Anonymous said...

why is being obsessed with The Law any different than being obsessed with whether or not it was abolished?

Anonymous said...

James has been sucked into a far, far, away, alternate reality.

Connie Schmidt said...

I once had a very personal (to say the least!) , "yeast infection" during the Days of Unleavened Bread. Talk about a conundrum!

Ralph said...

on March 25, 2016 at 2:57 PM
Redfox712 wrote:-

"The Armstrongite appropriation of Jewish traditions is wrong. It cheapens traditions and practices that are precious to the Jewish people. Imitating them in the selective manner that Armstrongites do cheapens and degrade Jewish traditions."

Hi Redfox712, from your viewpoint, what is a Jew and from where or what is the word 'Jew' derived?

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

Black Ops, wait for Stephen Flurry's next book, "Ruining the Raisins."

Black Ops Mikey said...

We should make up point lists to demonstrate how sects like this are cults.

Anonymous said...

2.57PM. Yours is a sophisticated version of 'its wrong to offend others by having a different belief.' On several occasions, when I disagreed to a members stated belief, I was confronted by a minister, telling me 'not to offend others.' So the big people can speak what they believe (tough if others are offended), but the little people must keep their mouths shut, least they 'offend' others by their disagreement. This is the bully belief that only they have a right to a opinion. And this from ministers who went to Ambassador College, the college that 'taught people how to live.' Ha ha ha.

Byker Bob said...

Got a cell phone number for them, Ralph?

BB

Anonymous said...

What happens if the barley crop fails and none of it ever matures?

Anonymous said...


Redfox712 said...

“HWA was wrong to appropriate Jewish traditions and doctrines for his own following. This was a wrong against the Jewish and the Jewish religion which is precious to Jews.”

“The Armstrongite appropriation of Jewish traditions is wrong. It cheapens traditions and practices that are precious to the Jewish people. Imitating them in the selective manner that Armstrongites do cheapens and degrade Jewish traditions.”

“I am now convinced that there is noting respectful to Jews in exploiting their traditions and reinterpreting them in Armstrongite ways. The Armstrongites are not Jews. These traditions should be respected by leaving them alone. Now that would be more respectful to Jews than this exploitation of Jewish traditions.”



Redfox, your problem is that you do not believe that God really exists and that the Bible really is His inspired word.

HWA's teachings were based on the idea that God really does exist, that the Bible is His inspired word, and that God's ways, expressed by His laws, are good. HWA tried to teach people to obey God's good laws for their own good. The problems that arise are mostly because the whole world hates God's ways.

HWA did NOT teach people to obey the numerous unbiblical Jewish customs and traditions that Jews have invented over the years, and that often effectively nullify the laws of God, as Jesus pointed out in New Testament times already. These Jewish inventions cheapen and degrade the laws that are precious to God. This is disrespectful to God and His true religion. Jews would do well to concentrate on obeying God's laws rather than making up so many Jewish customs and traditions of their own that actually nullify the word of God. This is a wrong that Jews commit against their God.

Most Jews scattered around the world are actually rather godless, which is why they got scattered around the world in the first place according to the Bible. They did not want to obey God's laws. Some Jews in Hollywood and the “entertainment” industry try to do the exact, diametrical opposite of everything that God said in the Bible, and try to teach the people of the nations utter depravity with their movies, “music” and personal lifestyles. Now that is disrespectful to the Jewish people, and especially to God.

The major religions of the world are built upon absolutely hating and detesting the laws of God in the Bible, and contemptuously and sneeringly referring to things that God said in the Bible as “Jewish customs.” For example, a billion Muslims observe the sixth day of the week (Friday) as their day of assembly. A billion Catholics observe the first day of the week (Sunday) as their day to play golf. A billion professing Christians in the Catholic church's numerous Protestant daughter churches grew up to be like their mother church and observe the first day of the week (Sunday) as their day to play at religion.

In direct contrast to virtually everyone else on earth, HWA and the WCG tried to teach people to obey the laws of God in the Bible, such as resting on the seventh day of the week, the Sabbath (called Saturday by some pagans). Satan, and the whole world that he has DECEIVED, cannot get over their hatred of HWA for trying to do that.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous at 4:45 AM said...

“Black Ops, wait for Stephen Flurry's next book, 'Ruining the Raisins.'”



What the PCG does could best be described as RAZING and RUINING everything.

Anonymous said...

Connie...Your personal yeast infection should have stayed personal, although I get your humor I can't handle the picture you paint.

Byker Bob said...

My goodness, 1:41, aren't you the naive one! What HWA did was to present his own proof-texted versions of God and the Bible, and to do this such a style as to make them automatically detestable. And, then, through a game of "good attitude, bad attitude", he made people who hated an oppressive management style into the bad guys, and the ones who embraced that style by constantly fighting the natural defense mechanisms God gave them into the good guys.

I am certain that you realize that there are theologically viable and credible exigetics which totally disagree with those of HWA. You may want to look into some of them sometime. Or, wait for some surprises later on in the Kingdom. We've encountered people like yourself before, who believe every word spoken by HWA was directly from God, thus deceiving themselves into believing they are not following a man. The jig was up the minute that 1972-75 failed, and this was underscored with the mapping of the human genome. But, go ahead. Feel free to be like your spiritual forefathers, the flat earthers. There are some of those folks still alive and well. Even amongst the Armstrongites!

BB

Ralph said...

March 26, 2016 at 10:04 AM
BB asked:

"Got a cell phone number for them, Ralph?"

No BB, I don't. I thought you could send them an e-mail and see if you got any response, supposing that an address could be found.

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

March 26, 2016 at 10:28 AM
Anon wrote:

"What happens if the barley crop fails and none of it ever matures?"

As the event is one of the important ones of the year I don't believe Yehovah would allow that to happen. However, if it did, say perhaps because of nuclear fallout, then I expect Yehovah would provide a way for the 'True Blues' to determine the season.

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ralph said...

March 26, 2016 at 1:44 PM
another Anonymous wrote:

much that I thought was very well put together. As an Aussie I'd like to zero in on one point.
You wrote ".... such as resting on the seventh day of the week, the Sabbath (called Saturday by some pagans)"

Q. Where, not when, do you believe the Sabbath day begins, and why?

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

Madness.

Anonymous said...


Remember that James D. Malm is just another rebel who rejected what Herbert W. Armstrong had taught. James left the WCG to try to “think for himself” in 1985 while HWA was still alive. Neither James nor his now ex-wife seem to have done very well at all with their attempts to try to “think for themselves.” James' wife got into that sacred names nonsense and divorced him for not going along with it too, and James got into calendar confusion.

James wants the people that HWA had gathered in the WCG to follow him now. James wants to teach them to disagree with what HWA had taught, and teach them to go along with all of James' own pet theories instead. James wants to teach them to “think for themselves” by carelessly going along with whatever James says, but not to try to “think for themselves” by agreeing with what HWA had taught or by coming up with their own ideas that would disagree with anything that James says.

If anyone is still too polite to tell that stupid, rebellious, heretic James Malm that he should be ashamed of himself for teaching rebellion, error, and confusion, then maybe at least just say, The Lord rebuke thee, Jimmy.

Priam said...

Hi Anon 1:44pm

Good reply to Redfox712. I hate to give any oxygen to that blogger. His effort seems very limp-wristed. He writes in his bio "I am a believer in Christianity." What a weak faith-statement. The demons believe, too. And they believe in God, and tremble.

It is good he receives almost no active visitors. Whole rafts of his postings receive 'No Comments'. I guess people are sick of his endless excerpt quoting. One good thing, though, he does not pretend that his thoughts are his own. He should be careful, though, of pushing up against copyright restrictions.

Every few months I look in on his blog (your comment prompted me to this time). It's the same old,same old.

Ralph said...

Hi Byker Bob, as a followup from a previous post I went to "The Shining Light" Blog and found this as a possible e-mail address for James Malm:-

jddm3@hotmail.com

Do with it as you will.

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

Going around Jerusalem to find ripe barley is total foolishness. The Bible clearly states what day we are to keep Passover. The 14th day of the 1st month. All other ideas are heresy. There is no Bible command to look for ripe barley. I have friends and family (who have been sucked into this stupidity). If you think Armstrongism is crazy...check into the sacred names nonsense and HWA will seem sane.

Ralph said...

Hi 'BB', I realize now that to contact by e-mail would provide your own e-mail address and I doubt if you would want that.

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

on March 27, 2016 at 4:38 AM
Anonymous wrote:

" The Bible clearly states what day we are to keep Passover. The 14th day of the 1st month"

and I ask: At the beginning or the end of the 14th day?

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

6.45PM I totally agree with you. James keeps saying over and over and over, that people "do what they think is right, rather than what Gods says is right." I noticed that the UCG used this same expression in their Good news magazine a few months ago. Gods command to 'prove all things' means a private, personal, independent judgment. Which means doing 'what we think is right.' So James is in substance attacking private judgment, and asking people to blindly believe him, just like all other COGs ministers. Barley hunter James should consider that God hates guile (crafty, devious deception).

Ralph said...

on March 27, 2016 at 4:38 AM
Anonymous also wrote:

"Going around Jerusalem to find ripe barley is total foolishness. The Bible clearly states what day we are to keep Passover. The 14th day of the 1st month...."

So true, but how does one determine "The 14th day of the 1st month"? What guidelines are there to "the 1st month" of the Biblical year?

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

well put anon. 1:44

the detractors never attack the doctrines, but they do attack the man, and any man is an easy target...there are plenty of failings in my life, but they in no way negate God's instructions to us.

BB said: "...there are theologically viable and credible exigetics which totally disagree with those of HWA."

sorry dude, but you're wrong....try to explain away the Sabbath, holy days, food laws, etc, etc all you want...those are God's instructions to us, and if you reject them you reject Him, period. it doesn't matter how many "good things" you do for others, or how nice you think you are. (that doesn't mean that everyone out there "keeping the Sabbath" is part of His Church...there are wolves in sheep's clothing all over the world)

not everyone is invited to the party right now....but everyone will be, at a time God chooses.

Byker Bob said...

You don't have to explain those things away, 9:10, all that is required is a good basic understanding of the New Covenant.

Also, everyone IS invited to the party right now! Remember the parable of the banquet, in which the favored invitees failed to show, so the servants were sent out into the streets and invited anyone who would come?

I'm certain you are well-grounded in Armstrongism, and sincere in all of that. However, I'd recommend that you go to your Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, and read all of the verses in scripture regarding circumcision, and then ponder the fact that, per Paul, James, and the Jerusalem Council, this distinctly Hebrew ritual was not to be required of gentile converts to "the way", which is what the New Testament church was originally called. This is a huge "door opening" topic, with many implications which were never discussed in depth, or understood by insiders to the Armstrong movement. Temple worship had been largely closed to the uncircumcised under Old Covenant Law. In fact, circumcision had been the lynchpin of several covenants, not just the Sinai covenant.

Understanding the expansion of circumcision from physical ritual to spiritual (of the heart) lays proper groundwork for understanding how Jesus' fulfillment of the law expanded all Old Covenant law from physical ritual to the spiritual, (Sermon on the Mount, Beatitudes, Two Great Commandments of the Lord), and a deeper understanding of "a Christian's sabbath rest" (from his or her previous lifestyle).

No matter what our individual beliefs, it is important for all of us to read widely. Ever wonder why teachers of Armstrongism forbad this? It is because they wanted us to single source all matters of faith to them. How deep can your faith be, if it revolves around the teachings of one very questionable man?

BB

Anonymous said...

9.10 AM. The people who 'love' Armstrong, do so because of his moral compromises. Where is freedom, rights, assertiveness, trade, magnification of Gods laws? These are taboo in the daughters of the church of Armstrong.

Anonymous said...


Ralph said...

"The Bible clearly states what day we are to keep Passover. The 14th day of the 1st month”

and I ask: At the beginning or the end of the 14th day?



And I answer:

The Passover is to be observed starting at the BEGINNING of the 14th day of the first month, of course, just like HWA had taught.

The Israelites had to get their first ever Passover lamb sacrificed and its blood put on the doorposts of their house at the BEGINNING of the 14th day so that the death angel would see the blood on the doorposts of their house and PASS OVER their house and not kill any firstborn in their house when the death angel went through the land of Egypt around midnight on the 14th day of the first month. If the Israelites had waited until the END of the 14th day, it would have been TOO LATE to save any firstborn in their house.

Since HWA had taught that the Passover was to be observed at the BEGINNING of the 14th day, many rebels just have to try to shift it to the END of the 14th day and effectively onto the beginning of the 15th day. These rebels with their confusion of the mind that comes from disobedience might have gotten a lot of firstborn Israelites killed if they had been around back at the time of the original Passover.

These confused and confusing rebels seem to take solace in the idea that maybe they can still confuse some people today, and get some people to observe things at different times than God had said to, and maybe somehow get people killed off that way.

Anonymous said...


Ralph said...

So true, but how does one determine "The 14th day of the 1st month"? What guidelines are there to "the 1st month" of the Biblical year?



HWA used the calculated Hebrew calendar, of course, and you should too.

If you do not like that idea, then there seem to be lots and lots of other guidelines to the first month of the Biblical year. The lots and lots of guidelines come from lots and lots of ignorant, confused rebels who just have to disagree with whatever HWA said. Even though the vast majority of these rebels had probably never even heard about the Hebrew calendar and the annual holy days until HWA told them about such things, they now think that HWA must have been all wrong and that they have figured out a better way to do things. HWA is not the only one that all these rebels disagree with. They also all disagree with each other. If you disagree with HWA, but also disagree with all the rebels, then you can still join the rebels by making up something of your own.

Byker Bob said...

It really doesn't matter what calendar or arguments to use in supporting holy days which were simply a shadow, and were fulfilled by Jesus Christ, which for all intents and purposes means that they were done away. And if you believe otherwise, you need to find some Kohanime, get them bulls, build and sanctify an altar on the temple mount, and support the feasts in Jerusalem rather than in American gambling resorts. Also, forget about your luxurious motel room being a sukkot. That is one of the worst absurdities!

What Ralph has not yet realized is that high school dropout Herbie's research methods were to frame an argument, decide the correct solution to the argument, and then to cobble together a bunch of proof texts to support his side. The man was totally incapable of following an evidentiary trail. Oh, and remember that people were put out of the church for years for insisting that Pentecost should be on Sunday, and then, poof! It all changed, and apparently their eternal lives counted for nothing!

The state of knowledge, and its availability in the 1950s and '60s made it difficult for most of the people who were attracted to Armstrongism to "prove all things" through second expert opinions. What I saw happening during that era when I occasionally looked up from building my bikes, was that some of their kids were nerds and prodigies, and they knew how to subject the premises of Armstrongism to critical analysis, where to find the rest of sentences and paragraphs from which HWA and Hoeh had lifted their proof texts. So, the rebel factor does not figure in. The process these people initiated was simply a further search for truth. They presented better and more accurate information than HWA, partially in reaction to the failures of the mid 1970s.

BB

RSK said...

I never quite understood the logic of "God's holy calendar" being a lunar one, since the inaccuracy inherent in a lunar calendar requires more adjustment than its solar counterpart. But apparently the more accurate calculations were not given at Sinai, or by its possible Exilic revisers.

Ralph said...

0n March 27, 2016 at 3:57 PM
Anonymous wrote:

"HWA used the calculated Hebrew calendar, of course, and you should too."

No, I don't think so! HWA made many mistakes and I believe this was one of them.
As to being a "rebel", I don't think you could classify Nehemia Gordon as one of those but as a confident Karaite Jew (a Hebrew). As to being an ignorant, confused rebel, surely that is for Yehovah to decide.

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

on March 27, 2016 at 3:28 PM
Anonymous also wrote:

"The Passover is to be observed starting at the BEGINNING of the 14th day of the first month, of course, just like HWA had taught."

Another of HWA's mistakes.
Consider:-
"Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:"
Scripture that most Bible students accept as an indication that it was the Pharisees, later becoming the Rabbinical order, who expounded the commandments of Yehovah. They did,and do, teach that Passover is taken in the 'evening', at the end of the 14th day.

See the Keil and Delitzsch commentary:-
"Exo_12:6
“And it shall be to you for preservation (ye shall keep it) until the fourteenth day, and then...slay it at sunset.” ie. sunset of the 14th day, not the 13th.

also see the Jamieson, Fawcett & Brown commentary:-
"Exodus 12:6
keep it up until the fourteenth day, etc. — Being selected from the rest of the flock, it was to be separated four days before sacrifice; and for the same length of time was Christ under examination and His spotless innocence declared before the world.
kill it in the evening — that is, the interval between the sun’s beginning to decline, and sunset, corresponding to our three o’clock in the afternoon."
of the 14th day, not the 13th.

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...


Ralph said...

"HWA used the calculated Hebrew calendar, of course, and you should too."

No, I don't think so! HWA made many mistakes and I believe this was one of them. As to being a "rebel", I don't think you could classify Nehemia Gordon as one of those but as a confident Karaite Jew (a Hebrew). As to being an ignorant, confused rebel, surely that is for Yehovah to decide.



Be careful that it does not turn out to be you yourself who has made the “many mistakes.”

Ralph, it is now time for you to state when YOU think the first month of the year is, and how that is determined, and whether the Passover should be observed at the beginning or end of the 14th day of the month, or some other day like the 15th, and how that is determined in your opinion, or the opinion of whoever you are currently listening to.

Do you think you know the answers, or do you currently still feel ignorant of them?

Can you explain this now, or are you currently still unsure and confused about it?

Do you think that you have found a better explanation and therefore intend to continue to rebel against what HWA had taught?

If you have anything interesting to say, this is your chance to spit it out.

Anonymous said...


RSK said...

“I never quite understood the logic of 'God's holy calendar' being a lunar one, since the inaccuracy inherent in a lunar calendar requires more adjustment than its solar counterpart. But apparently the more accurate calculations were not given at Sinai, or by its possible Exilic revisers.”



The Gregorian calendar used in the Western world is strictly solar, and ignores the moon.

The Muslim calendar is strictly lunar and ignores the sun.

The Hebrew calendar is luni-solar and uses both the sun and the moon.

Anonymous said...

Calling people who disagree with the 'great' church leader: rebels, unteachable, proud, arrogant, hard-headed, contentious, divisive, argumentative, unconverted, etc etc, is a abusive cult technique to intimidate and enforce conformity. Where is the 'prove all things,' or 'obey God rather than man,' in this approach?
People who use this approach, don't really believe in Gods laws, despite their constant bible quoting. To them, Gods laws aren't practicable. What they really believe in is verbal violence, deception, and oppression. That is, bully morality. Which is what one finds in all the COGs off shoots.

Ralph said...

on March 27, 2016 at 10:06 PM
Anonymous wrote:

"If you have anything interesting to say, this is your chance to spit it out."

With all due respect I don't think that anything I say would be of interest to you!

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

You're correct - I looked it up and the Hebrew calendar is indeed lunisolar, I was thinking of the calendar's need to add leap months instead of days when I described it as "lunar".

Anonymous said...


Ralph said...

“See the Keil and Delitzsch commentary:-”

“also see the Jamieson, Fawcett & Brown commentary:-”



The world is full of commentaries and other books by Catholics, Protestants, and even Jews who disagree with what the Bible says, and who have all sorts of excuses for their disagreement. You can find a book to support just about any idea you want to. That is part of the reason why those who reject what HWA taught on some matter can easily find all sorts of other people who claim to have proven HWA to be wrong. However, former WCG people do not all listen to the same new source, and so they all tend to end up disagreeing with each other.

Sometimes, there is a certain agreement among professing Christians, such as Catholics and Protestants believing that people should observe Sunday rather than the Biblical Sabbath, Easter rather than the Biblical Passover, etc.

While you are seeing what commentaries and other books say, remember also to see what the Bible says.

Anonymous said...


Ralph said...

"What happens if the barley crop fails and none of it ever matures?"

As the event is one of the important ones of the year I don't believe Yehovah would allow that to happen. However, if it did, say perhaps because of nuclear fallout, then I expect Yehovah would provide a way for the 'True Blues' to determine the season.



Maybe God has already provided a way for the True Church everywhere to determine the season, but it has been hidden from the Untrue Types who have rejected it?

If you use the calculated Hebrew calendar like HWA did, then you do not have to worry about keeping in contact with some barley scout in Jerusalem, or possible barley crop failures, or excessive cloud cover, or breakdown of modern communications between the USA and Jerusalem as a result of nuclear war, or other things that those who reject HWA and what he taught end up troubling themselves and others with.

Anonymous said...


Ralph said...

“Q. Where, not when, do you believe the Sabbath day begins, and why?”



You can narrow down the possible answers by looking into it and seeing what, if anything, HWA said on the matter. Then, simply reject whatever HWA said. Why? Oh, just because. But be open-minded enough to spend the rest of your life considering any and every other theory under the sun.

Anonymous said...


For those who are interested, the Church of God, a Worldwide Association, Inc. (COGWA) has a 25-page Study Paper called The Hebrew Calendar posted at its website.

Here is a link to it that you can copy and paste into your browser:

http://members.cogwa.org/uploads/COGWA-The_Hebrew_Calendar-Study_Paper.pdf


James Malm, and some others, should have a look at this.

Anonymous said...

I think you mean what HWA tells you to see in the Bible.

Anonymous said...


Ralph, if you reject the calculated Hebrew calendar that HWA accepted and used, your rebellion will leave you subject to the CURSE known as CALENDAR CONFUSION.

You seem to be trying hard to confuse yourself and others. You seem to have been trying to do this for quite a while now, though you might sense a feeling of dissatisfaction with the results so far, and probably wonder what you still lack.

Well, if you want to be perfectly messed up, ask Byker Bob to tell you his theories about the so-called lunar Sabbath that can have the weekly Sabbath fall on different days of the week depending on the new moon.

I am not saying that you and Byker Bob are exactly alike. Byker Bob probably likes to be thought of as a rebel.

There is, theoretically, some remote hope for Byker Bob if he repents of his proud rebellion, and for you too, Ralph, if you repent of your “secret” rebellion. Time is of the essence, and you two had best smarten up real soon before you do not even know which day of the week it is anymore, and consequently you start to miss your favorite TV shows (which you probably should not be watching anyway).

Anonymous said...

Okay, this is cracking me up now. The guy who mentions HWA more than he does God is even putting on the capital letters now. And they wonder why others are always cautioning about over-adulating the man.

Anonymous said...

12.57PM. According to you, we should forget about 'proving all things,' and simply believe Herbie, 'cause he says so.' If anyone refuses to blindly believe, Herbie, he/she is a overt or closet rebel. Don't tell me, you were put into suspended animation in 1965, and they just unfroze you. The TV shows 'Father knows best,' and 'Leave it to Beaver,' are no longer on. Neither is 'l love Lucy.'

Anonymous said...


Norman S. Edwards: Rebel from the beginning with a bad case of calendar confusion

The February 26, 1997 issue of The Journal newspaper had an article about calendar postponements that mentioned Norman S. Edwards: “Mr. Edwards said he wants to do what his Creator wants him to do. But 'the only problem is I've got 150 papers [about the calendar] back home telling me what the Eternal wants me to do, and they're all different.'”

Perhaps the ONLY REAL PROBLEM was that Norman Edwards was willing to consider virtually anything and everything under the sun on this topic EXCEPT for what Herbert W. Armstrong had already taught everyone in the Worldwide Church of God about it in the past.

Interested bystander said...

No, not the beginning of the 14th day because the sacrificial lamb cannot be killed until all the leaven is out of Israel. This is in torah.
Secondly the only thing done at night in the temple is the burning of the fat from the days sacrifices. No killing of animals is done at the Maariv service. And that is the service that the churches of God think the lamb was killed during.
It was killed in the mincha or afternoon service. (3 services a day: Shacharit, mincha and maariv)
There is only one passover and it is when God passed over.
What the church keeps is the memorial of the death of Christ and this is why only members can keep that.
If it were the passover any Israelite can keep the passover and be covered by the blood. Physical circumcision was the only requirement.
Today any Israelite can still participate in passover just as anyone can partake of or accept the blood of Christ.

Anonymous said...

The calendar confusion is because the church refuses to accept that Christ fulfilled the law and the holy days were shadows.
If the shadow appears you are happy to see the shadow of the one you expect but once the person comes into view the shadow is useless!

Anonymous said...


It is easy to say that HWA was not perfect and that he made mistakes.

It is also easy to find other people who are even worse and who make even worse mistakes, such as James Malm. After finding people like that to follow, life might not be so easy.

Some people talk about “proving all things,” which sounds good, but the only thing that the 150 different papers that Norman Edwards received really proves is that their writers are all confused and cannot prove anything. Which of those 150 different demon-inspired scribblers do you think is better than HWA? Can you tell? Can you guess? Do you feel lucky, rebel?

Anonymous said...

Herbert W. Armstrong made mistakes. WOW!! It was easy!
And true too. ;)

Anonymous said...

I don't know that James Malm made the mistake of repeatedly committing sexual abuse on his own daughter..., wacky though he may be.

Byker Bob said...

12:57, you give me far too much credit. The lunar sabbath concept is not an original with me. The funny thing is, when we were discussing this over at the Painful Truth, it must have hit some kind of tag line, because the leader of a church that teaches and practices the lunar sabbaths suddenly contacted us to see if we were interested in receiving more information on this topic, and about their church.

As for being a rebel, my Momma always told me, "If you want to be a real rebel, follow Jesus Christ!" There is no call to gloat in that, but I believe she was correct. That's why I sift through all of this stuff, and attempt to get at the real answers. Armstrongism was unfortunately a defective product, a toxic and damaging one that ruined people's lives.

Warning: Practicing Armstrongism may cause one or more of the following symptoms: Indigestion, heart murmers, hypertension, migraine headaches, anxiety and panic attacks, sleeplessness, lowered resistance to disease, tendency towards increased drug and alcohol consumption, financial ruin or impoverished lifestyle, aborted education, liver and kidney disease, paranoia, schizophrenia, psychotic breaks, hallucinations, depression, nausea, and vomiting, night sweats, vivid nightmares, delusional thinking, irrational fear, low self esteem, hopelessness, diarrhea, irritable bowel syndrome, halitosis, body odor and gas, and in worst cases death. If you have experienced any of these symptoms, discontinue usage immediately, drink copious amounts of water, obtain proper medical attention, and seek counselling from an accredited professional.

BB

Ralph said...

on March 29, 2016 at 11:00 PM
Byker Bob wrote:

"Warning: Practicing Armstrongism may cause one or more of the following symptoms: Indigestion, heart murmers, hypertension, migraine headaches, anxiety and panic attacks, sleeplessness, lowered resistance to disease,etc etc...."

I don't suffer any of the symptoms described and I practice "Armstongism" as an "Armstongite", defined below:

"Armstrongite?
Definition from Ralph-Websters dictionary: (Limited edition)
Main Entry: Armstrongite
Pronunciation: Arm*strong*ite
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps from late Ephraimite descendent by name of Herbert W. Armstrong who established an organization eventually known as The World Wide Church of God.
Date: early to late 1900’s
: one of a notable group of people who adhered to the teachings of an anointed minister of religion who established a large following throughout the world based on many of his own interpretations of Holy writ. A ‘true’ Armstrongite retains the truth of the Scriptures, rejects the private interpretations of Herbert W. Armstrong and is recognized by his/her following conscious behaviour:-
Repentance of and turning away from past sins ie. transgressions of the law of Yehovah; believing the Gospel as in Mark 1:15 as preached by Yeshua and found in Mat.4:13, Mat. 9:35 and Mar. 1:14, ie. the gospel of the Kingdom of Yehovah; receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit ie. the attitude of Yehovah, as promised; adopting the Decalogue and its extensions as a way of life; by putting Yehovah first in his/her life; by loving his/her neighbour as themselves and not denigrating their neighbour because their opinions are at variance with his/hers; nor considering them as inferior beings because their way of life and faith is at variance with his/hers and by demonstrating a good grasp and use of the spoken language by not dragging it through the gutter.
A ‘True Armstrongite’ adheres to the TRUTH as in: Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...


Byker Bob...

“12:57, you give me far too much credit. The lunar sabbath concept is not an original with me. The funny thing is, when we were discussing this over at the Painful Truth, it must have hit some kind of tag line, because the leader of a church that teaches and practices the lunar sabbaths suddenly contacted us to see if we were interested in receiving more information on this topic, and about their church.”



Tell him NO, Bob! Tell him NO!!!

Tell him that you are tired of being a rebel and harming other people. Tell him that you are already messed up enough and that you are trying to get your life turned around right.

Or, maybe try that old line that someone came up with for use on pushy Amway distributors, and just say, “Get thee hence, Satan.”

Anonymous said...


Ralph said...

“Definition from Ralph-Websters dictionary: (Limited edition)”

“A ‘true’ Armstrongite retains the truth of the Scriptures, rejects the private interpretations of Herbert W. Armstrong and is recognized by his/her following conscious behaviour:- .... by loving his/her neighbour as themselves and not denigrating their neighbour because their opinions are at variance with his/hers; nor considering them as inferior beings because their way of life and faith is at variance with his/hers and by demonstrating a good grasp and use of the spoken language by not dragging it through the gutter.”



Ralph, you are not supposed to make up your own definitions of things. I will make up the definitions.

A TRUE BLUE Armstrongite would NOT faithlessly reject what HWA believed and taught about the calculated Hebrew calendar (insultingly calling it HWA's “private interpretation,” rather than humbly calling it “revealed truth”) to go follow seducing spirits that would turn him into a Karrot or some other inferior sub-human species that thinks it is flourishing in the fertilizer.

The sheer magnitude and enormity of your apostasy, rebellion, confusion of the mind, and great folly cannot be overstated or overlooked just because you try to phrase it in what you pretend is calm, polite language! What you have done is simply shocking!! Shocking, I tell you!!!

Using good, polite English to subtly promote error, confusion, heresy, rebellion, and evil is actually extremely RUDE and a terrible MISUSE of the spoken or printed word.

Trying to make other people look bad for not quietly, unthinkingly, mindlessly, and wrongly accepting a life of demon-inspired confusion that is trying to spread is a very dirty trick indeed! Oh, the depths of this sort of depravity!! If this sort of behavior continues, soon nothing will surprise me about you any more!!!

Ralph said...

on March 30, 2016 at 11:14 PM
Anonymous wrote:

"Ralph, you are not supposed to make up your own definitions of things. I will make up the definitions."
and much more.

and I nearly fell off my chair with laughter! Perhaps you should give up your day job ans join the Seinfeld crew. Unless of course you are already a member. LOL X 2.

cheers
ralph.f

ps. I truly do appreciate your choice and use of words. You must have led the field with your Spokesman's Club" 'ADD COLOR' speech.

Anonymous said...


Ralph said...

“and I nearly fell off my chair with laughter! Perhaps you should give up your day job ans join the Seinfeld crew. Unless of course you are already a member. LOL X 2.”



What a sick, sick, sick sense of humor you must have! I do NOT watch that Sinfilled TV show you mentioned. It is probably just an empty show about NOTHING!

Who beguiled you into departing from the plain truth that was revealed through HWA? How did they get you to go bad? What did they use to lead you astray? Did they offer you anything worthwhile like money, or fun like sex, or just useless intellectual vanity? Tell me now, who tricked you into becoming another enemy of all good?

Even a glance at a globe reveals that, as someone living down under in Australia, you are hanging upside down on the planet and it is only the force of gravity that is keeping you from losing your footing in reality. Hopefully I can help to bring you back to the truth and get you anchored in reality before it is too late and you fly off the bottom into who knows where and what.


P.S. One advantage of the calculated Hebrew calendar is that you can simply buy a copy of it in advance each year at your local Calendar Store. Then, you can easily look ahead and plan ahead. No need to go to the Karaites, or the Malmites. Buy a standard Jewish calendar. Skip the ones put out by the crazy Jews who are into Kabbalah, lest they lead you into even more nonsense--and Kabbalah is nonsense. In fact, Kabbalah is so bad that even the occasional infamous celebrity noise maker has gotten into it.

Ralph said...

Anon at March 31, 2016 at 11:58 AM

Curiouser and curiouser, as Alice might say.

Would you tell me if you belong to a group and if so, which one?

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

to Anon at March 31, 2016 at 11:58 AM

Somehow, one way or another, I sense that I know you, Anon. Have we previously met, perhaps at a US feast site? Pasadena, Wichita, Omak or even at Kenya-Africa?

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

Superbly trolled.

Anonymous said...


Ralph,

I was thinking some more about your predicament, and what I could say to try to reform you and save your misguided and sinful soul. Perhaps heredity and environment have played a role in your downfall.

Let us rationally consider all the well-known and indisputable FACTS.

Is not Australia a former British Penal colony? I thought I once heard something like that somewhere.

Therefore, does it not logically follow that Australians are the descendants of horse thieves, rebels...and maybe even pyromaniacs? I thought I heard that there were some forest fires in Australia a number of years ago? Do you know anything about any of that?

So, perhaps the rebellion against all properly constituted authority is deeply ingrained in the Australian national psyche.

Anyway, while you are tying your kangaroo down, Sport, hold on to a rope yourself in case gravity lets go down there. You never know what modern physicists fooling around with the laws of nature could accidentally do to an already upside down place like Australia. They are talking about making waves in the gravity, you know.


P.S. We have not met, and I was just about to answer all your questions in exquisite detail, and tell you everything that your heart ever wanted to know, when I suddenly realised that you have already used up all your FREE (GRATIS) questions. For more valuable knowledge, wisdom, and hidden insight that you cannot live without, you will now have to either phone a friend or buy a hint.

To phone a friend, you have to have a friend. To have a friend, you have to be a friend. To be a friend, you have to accept the calculated Hebrew calendar. Anyone who does not do that is not a real friend.

To buy a hint, save up numerous, large, unmarked bills, put them in a nondescript plastic bag, and await further instructions. Do NOT hold your breath while you wait.


Ralph said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ralph said...

at March 31, 2016 at 7:12 PM

Ahh Anon, I like you, you make me to larff.

Yes, you are correct when you ask "Is not Australia a former British Penal colony?"
and yes "Therefore, does it not logically follow that Australians are the descendants of horse thieves, rebels...and maybe even pyromaniacs?"

However, not all Australians "....are the descendants of horse thieves, rebels...and maybe even pyromaniacs?" That being said I understand that there may be pyromaniacs among us as it has been reported that a number of our past bushfires may have been deliberately initiated. They, the pyromaniacs, could quite possibly be experienced immigrants from California.

Believe it or not,some Australian antecedents immigrated to this country of their own free will, paying their own way, to seek a better life, similar to many US residents today. As to being a rebel well, I try to only have a sense of rebellion against that which is untrue and against the will of Yehovah, such as the fixed calendar and its postponements. . LOL.
BTW, have you read Nehemia Gordon's book "The Hebrew Yeshua vs The Greek Jesus"? It is quite illuminating as far as the present Rabbinical system is concerned.

At least I have one direct answer when you say "P.S. We have not met,...."

cheers
ralph.f - See more at: http://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com.au/2016/03/church-of-god-legalists-in-desperate.html#sthash.5ZMNGi8o.dpuf

Anonymous said...


Ralph at 5:41 PM said... “BTW, have you read...?”


This looks like some friendless, penniless, follower of folly is trying to get yet another question answered without even having to “phone a friend” or “buy a hint.”

The sneakiness and cunning of some people who have gone astray knows no bounds!

Ralph said...

on April 2, 2016 at 2:05 PM
Anonymous wrote:

"This looks like some friendless, penniless, follower of folly is trying to get yet another question answered without even having to “phone a friend” or “buy a hint.”

You don't seem to be able to find any real answers, just put-downs!
Perhaps I should be glad, in more ways than one, for the only direct answer you have given so far.

cheers
ralph.f