Saturday, April 23, 2016

Is Living Church of God Having A "Demon" Problem?



Rod Meredith has a Passover message up that makes the following statement:
Many of us ministers have participated in healing the sick and in casting out demons. But these events are not experienced nearly as often as they should be!

Apparently LCG is having a huge demon possession problem, unlike other Church of God's who never make this boast.

Perhaps Rod Meredith and other leaders of the LCG need to start looking inward at their attitudes and beliefs and realize that THEY are the "demons" that are causing problems.  How many more families need to be ripped apart? How many more need to die spiritually because of godless teachings?  that's not the concern of Meredith and the ministry though. As usual its the membership's fault.  Church members over the last 80 some years have never been able to do anything right.
Brethren, many scriptures indicate that God’s people—at the end of this age—will be greatly lacking in faith. We need to realize that this has affected all of us! And God Almighty generally does not heal nearly as often unless there is an “atmosphere of faith”! Please remember that even Jesus Christ Himself—when He came back to His own hometown and relatives, “could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them” (Mark 6:5). It was obviously not because He lacked faith, but “He marveled because of their unbelief” (v. 6)!
Meredith now wants to start a "campaign" to bring supernatural healing and deliverance into the Living Church of God.  It's not going to happen.   That's a fact.
So, we must do everything in our power to restore this aspect of apostolic Christianity. We must begin, collectively, to cry out to God to restore the depth of understanding and the depth  of faith regarding healing and God’s divine intervention in other ways that the original apostles had. We must pray about this. We must fast about this. We must go on a “campaign,” dear brethren, so that God will begin to supernaturally heal more of our friends and loved ones in God’s Church at this time of the end! We know that terrible disease epidemics are coming. Because of this, it is even more imperative than ever that God’s people learn to have genuine faith that God can heal us if we turn to Him with all our hearts!
Then we find out the real purpose for this dramatic focus upon healing.  Meredith expects to be healed and to continue living so that he personally can lead the church to Petra where they will dwell in eternal bliss for 3 1/2 years along side Theil, Pack, Flurry, and Kubik.
As an aside, let me remind you that the Church has always taught that God does not heal people in every case in this life—and that He does allow people to die at some point. God heals in His way and in His time. So, although we were very hurt to experience the deaths of Messrs. Dibar Apartian, David Burson, Glen Gilchrist, Fitzroy Greeman, Randy Gregory, Bob League, Carl McNair, John Ogwyn, Carl Ponder, Lynn Torrance, Keith Walden and others in recent years, we realize that these men had proven themselves as faithful servants of Jesus Christ. Some died well into their 60s or 70s, and several were older than I am today. In my case, brethren, I want all of you to know and understand that God does not “have” to heal me, although I certainly hope that He will. For God has already given me nearly 86 wonderful years of life, with a beautiful first wife and a beautiful second wife, six wonderful children, ten grandchildren, four great-grandchildren, trips around the world and many, many other blessings and opportunities. I have already lived about 15 years longer than King David of Israel did 3,000 years ago when God allowed him to die “old and full of days.” I will certainly deeply appreciate your prayers that God will grant me several more years to help finish the Work! This is my passion and my desire. But you must not be shocked, turned aside or in any way lose heart if God allows an 85-year-old man to die. Your faith must always be in God’s Word, and in what God says He will do. Unless there are special reasons, God does often heal us in this lifetime—and many of us have experienced that over and over again. But we do need to go all out in a genuine crusade—as a Church—to ask God for increased faith and zeal so that our Father in heaven will begin to grant us the gifts of the Holy Spirit and begin to pour out these gifts—including divine healing—much more than ever, as we cooperate with Christ in creating an “atmosphere of faith” within the Church of God.
Like I said above, none of the things he desires will happen because of the simple fact the church has NEVER operated with Jesus Christ with anything.  How can you cooperate when you don't mention the guy?  How can you cooperate when the law is more significant that the giver of grace?
In Jesus’ name, I ask all of you to join me in urgently crying out to our Father in heaven to restore this living faith into His Church! Please ask God to teach us every lesson, show us everything we need to change and move us, collectively, to draw closer to Him so that He will then be able to bless us, empower us and use us to finish the Work of God with the kind of zeal the original apostles had—and also be blessed with the “accompanying” signs!
After 80 some years Meredith still doesn't get it and has never been able to get it across to his followers, if he did he would not make the remarks he did above. True healing of LCG members will begin the moment they walk out the door of the church and learn to fly.


 

53 comments:

k-baradanikto said...

Why is absolute, flawless, and perfect faith without blemish always touted as the key to answered prayer? Can any human being really have such idealized faith? And why would God be constrained by the slightest imperfection in our faith? He is, after all, all-powerful. He can do anything he wants, regardless of whether we have imperfect faith or even no faith at all. It seems to me that correct faith is simply a conviction that God can indeed answer prayer in any way and at any time of His choosing. Whether He WILL answer prayer is another matter entirely. Some people say that sometimes God's answer is no, but that's just rationalizing --- another way of saying that the desired answer was not provided. It seems to me that this whole faith issue is just another way to keep people feeling guilty and on the defensive; in other words, just another method of control. If you need an answer to prayer, simply pray with the conviction that God can answer the prayer. You have no way of knowing whether He will, and that's okay. How can you possibly know in advance whether He WILL answer the pray? Talk about God's promises all you want, but the plain truth is that sometimes the answer we seek doesn't come. Of course, all of this assumes belief in God who can answer prayer. If you don't believe in God then ignore this post. :>)

Byker Bob said...

Perhaps the greater question would be, "Did demons inspire Armstrongism while HWA was molesting Dorothy?"

If so, then the whole movement would have been affected in some way by demons throughout its history. This would explain so many things.

BB

NO2HWA said...

BB

If they were actually followers of that most inconvenient dude from Nazareth, then they would not be living in such fear. Apparently to them that battle was never fought or won.

Byker Bob said...

Exactly, Gary! They seem to take their basic pattern on this from the example of helplessness depicted in the Book of Job, rather than from Jesus' victory over Satan in the gospels. The New Covenant example is "resist him, and he will flee." But, of course, the ACOGs teach that you must resist according to their tenets. They modify everything that is potentially beautiful, and spoil it with the element of fear, so they can then exploit that fear.

BB

Anonymous said...

Rods article is saturated with protestant slop. He talks about "cry out to God to restore the depth of understanding and the depth of faith," to "ask God for increased faith and zeal," to "ask God to teach us every lesson, show us everything we need to change and move us..empower us and use.." All of the above are in fact personal responsibilities given by God to every person in the parable of the talents. So instead of telling members to be 'strong, brave and courageous' in the exercising of these responsibilities, Rod tells his members to behave like begging small children and do nothing themselves. This is consistent with his church treating its members like 5 year olds. It's the protestant teaching of throwing back at God the responsibilities He gives to people.
Rather we should increase through our own effort, our own faith, our own zeal, our own understanding, and through self examination 'everything we need to change.' Rod should teach members to be adults rather than children. But wait, that would decrease his and his minions power over the church members. So forget it.

Cheers TradingGuy

DennisCDiehl said...

Rod is at the end of his life which is a bit above the normal lifespan according to the Book. It is all quite normal and natural and the years of our lives are never "enough". Even a long life seems like 15 minutes when one looks back.

Why does one have to "beg", "beseech" and "implore" the Deity to not let one die? No one ever gave a sermon on "Hide me in the grave til thy wrath is past." that I recall.

Job 14:12 So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep. 13"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! 14"If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes.…

Rod is no doubt disappointed and somewhat frightened I am sure having not, as all others before him, seen the Second Coming and Kingdom as God as advertised come to pass. None of these Apostles, Prophets, Ministers and other whacky titled men will see anything of their theological fantasies in their lifetimes. Dave Pack won't see any of his particularly stupid and made up fantasies ever.

Concerning healing. For years I sincerely anointed "the sick" according to James 5. 100% got better and over their flu, colds, headaches, and medically attended to infections. (I understand John Ogwyn died delaying help and with prayer only for MRSA.) 100% died of their lethal cancers, ultimately fatal accidents, drownings and suicides. I buried pre-teens, teens, young adults and adults where all the begging and pleading did nothing to save them. No angels flew in as if they were on guard over them and intervened to save them. No one ever regrew a finger, and arm or a leg lost neither were the elderly made younger.

Religion is first and foremost the results of our human fear of death. What's going to happen to me when I die? Is this all there is. Being the only creature on the planet that knows that we know and is aware and conscious of past and future is the cause of this. My Shi Tzu NEVER wasted a moment worrying about what would happen to her when she died. She didn't know she would. Religion is our way of answering our fears and what we come up with and what is in reality true, seem to me, to be quite different.

The entire New Testament story of the Apostle Paul, John and Peter is one of "We shall not all die and WE who are alive shall be changed....oops...never mind..bye bye."

If we agreed to show up, then we agreed to leave as well. And even we go kicking and screaming it won't change the outcome.

"We are alive, therefore we will die. This is the simplest, most obvious truth of our existence, and yet very few of us have really come to terms with it."

DennisCDiehl said...

Rod Meredith notes:

Please remember that even Jesus Christ Himself—when He came back to His own hometown and relatives, “could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them” (Mark 6:5). It was obviously not because He lacked faith, but “He marveled because of their unbelief” (v. 6)!

The unbelief of others has nothing to do with the relationship between the one who has "faith" and the "faith" of the healer. According to James 5, it is simply the relationship between the one sick and the one anointing.

I suspect a prophet is not without honor EXCEPT in his own town (Mark 6:4) because the locals know the family too well and are on to their lifelong tricks and know too much. Also in Mark, Jesus family and mother (who never heard of or could remember Jesus miraculous birth circumstances evidently) came to retrieve Jesus because they thought he was crazy. Mark 3:21 That didn't help their faith in him.

Anonymous said...

DDsaid:"...it is simply the relationship between the one sick and the one anointing."

Don't forget about the placebo effect.

DBP

Black Ops Mikey said...

Can anyone explain why God or any god for that matter (except the god of this world, and REALLY why was Satan left in charge?) would answer the prayers of a false prophet and heal him or anyone who follows him? Isn't any sort of Divine Intervention out of the question?

Roderick Meredith has ignored God for decades. Why would God pay any attention to him (except, perhaps, if God were interested in punishing him, which evidently He is not).

And how ironic that Meredith is reflecting on this during the supposed Days of Unleavened Bread (sorry, he's a month late) instead of doing some serious repentance.

Right. He's perfect and never committed a MAJOR sin.

Perhaps he should read the Book of Job.

DennisCDiehl said...

"Roderick Meredith has ignored God for decades"

I personally don't and wouldn't believe this for a minute. RCM is and always has been a very intense person. He rarely if ever lets down and is not one you'd find very relaxed or casually conversational in a social setting. He takes everything in the Bible personally and seriously in my view of him and experience. Like most he seemed conflicted and put me in mind of the Apostle Paul's most revealing analysis of himself in Romans (which he actually did write) .

"14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.c For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

This is serious stuff for an apostle to admit. Of course he does not tell us just what it was he did that was so bad. Some suspect, based on some of his other admissions he was battling homosexuality and his associated guilt. Who knows. He said he kept on doing whatever it was that he did not want to do. Paul went so far to say that he beat himself into submission, and he meant that literally, "lest after preaching to others I become a castaway."

I see RCM's intense sincerity in the same way. If he seems obsessed at times with sex and "queers" then I suspect it is some kind of struggle that is all too common and puzzling in men and women in ministry. I don't blame him for the struggle. It might be nice if he could let down at times and show some humanity in it all but he's strict with himself , or that's how I remember him.

I see much of the same conflict in many ministers and Christians. The light side and the dark side which is really just the other side in most normal folk. If an artist or a pop star is a letch and bad boy , it's fine. That's part of the show. Prince will easily be forgiven for being drug addicted due to his extreme stage fright and nervous self. Ministers and Christians not so much.

At any rate, it's too glittering of a generality to say RCM has ignored God for decades. I would say he has taken many things way too seriously to his harm in both personality and his expectations of others. He will mellow as he draws near to the end of his life if he can admit it is ending and not make the same mistake HWA made by acting and thinking he just could not die before the work was finished in his opinion and view.

I know this is so as Gerald Waterhouse told me when I asked him to his face what he'd think and say when HWA died soon like any old man would. He said he'd believe it after three days and three nights....argh!

DennisCDiehl said...

Now he may have ignored Jesus , compassion, kindness, encouragement of the brethren etc for years and NT teachings on Grace over law but that's what the whole church does.

On an interesting note. I just realized the Baptist church HWA was baptized at is just three blocks away and I have passed it often not knowing this. Also Richard and GTA were born just a few blocks away in homes still there. Who knew..not me.

Anonymous said...

Rod ignored God all his life by never embracing the ten commandments. His religion is Pharisaic. Constant complaints of cruel mistreatment of others proves this. It always amazes me that people can be so gifted, rich and popular, yet lack character, the most precious value in the universe. You can't buy it, and parents can't gift it to their children. I read that Prince left behind 300 million dollars, talk about unfair.

Anonymous said...

I have mixed feelings about this all. I never really liked RCM and groaned inwardly when he got up to speak. Of course, I tried to respect him when I was caught up in the cult, and I don't hate him today. I think he's a study in pathetic narcissism.

We were all mixed up and couldn't think straight back there. I'd like to think I've outgrown it all, but it took getting completely away from it for several decades to arrive where I am today. He's part of my deluded past and I bear him no malice, but it's tragic how many lives he's affected negatively, but so did I while I was caught up in the deception, and that includes members of my own family.

Since I no longer believe anybody will be judged by any supernatural entity anywhere or at any time, I can look at this all with only concern for the lives of people he has run rough shod over ever since I first met him in 1955. I was at his first wedding celebration, as a matter of fact. Allen C. Dexter

Anonymous said...

Notice how Prince died on the Passover. There is typically some significant world event just prior to Passover or the feast of Tabernacles. This defies random probability and implies harassment from an external force. Hmmm.

Steve D said...

If we are to grow in "grace and knowledge", do you see much of that in RCM or in the C of Gods"? Has any teacher "grown in knowledge" over the years? Is their understanding of anything different than what they've taught years ago? If the body of understanding static, then can you say they have "grown" in knowledge? I suspect that most sermons, publications, etc. simply reinforce what has always been taught. My view on creation has changed over time. My understanding of "sons of God and daughters of men", has changed, understanding "born again" has changed, from something future to something past; rapture vs place of safety has changed. The meaning of "the Church" has changed from an organization to an organism, the body of Christ. Hopefully, these changes move me closer to the truth, rather than away from it. But has RCM and others "grown" at all?

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Dennis said, "On an interesting note. I just realized the Baptist church HWA was baptized at is just three blocks away and I have passed it often not knowing this. Also Richard and GTA were born just a few blocks away in homes still there."

MY COMMENT - I never received an answer from my family (because that is who I asked) or any one else how Herbert Armstrong's baptism by a Sunday keeping "false" Church minister could be valid in the Worldwide Church of God.

Dennis, you should conduct competing tours to Philadelphia Church of God's tours of the Baptist church, library where Armstrong did 6 months of intense study instead of providing for his family, and the Armstrong home. The Baptist Church added to the tour would be a bonus to the PCG tour because I doubt it is included in their tour. Someone might ask the same question I did!

Richard

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Dennis said, "On an interesting note. I just realized the Baptist church HWA was baptized at is just three blocks away and I have passed it often not knowing this. Also Richard and GTA were born just a few blocks away in homes still there."

MY COMMENT - I never received an answer from my family (because that is who I asked) or any one else how Herbert Armstrong's baptism by a Sunday keeping "false" Church minister could be valid in the Worldwide Church of God.

Dennis, you should conduct competing tours to Philadelphia Church of God's tours of the Baptist church, library where Armstrong did 6 months of intense study instead of providing for his family, and the Armstrong home. The Baptist Church added to the tour would be a bonus to the PCG tour because I doubt it is included in their tour. Someone might ask the same question I did!

Richard

Retired Prof said...

Anonymous at 2:14 points out that Prince's death on the Passover must be a sign that external forces are at work.

Even more astonishing, it wasn't just Prince. Millions all over the world died on that day. Proof positive of an invisible hand from somewhere. But whose?

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 2:14am

Not a co-incidence I think!

Yes, this Person "Prince" had the world captivated for several days after his death. This Rock Star, talented he was, did not show a devout Christian example on stage...

Someone in a COG Church wore purple in "honor of him". . . . . . . . or sure looked like it. Was very disturbing . . this was elder in that church, too.

This is unfortunately important, too. How much are we like the world?

The external force is far more powerful then we think

RSK said...

Yes, I passed through recently and took note. It was really more fun to imagine him in Astoria than Portland, but still an entertaining diversion.

RSK said...

Aye, in the matter of apostolic succession, shouldnt he have been baptized by a COG7 group instead of a Baptist minister?

Black Ops Mikey said...

Roderick Meredith has ignored God for decades

That is not a statement about Meredith's sincerity, it's all about not doing what God would really have him do. You know, like not being a false prophet; like not lying; like not breaking his promises; like not being arrogant.

Oh, there's no doubt Roderick Meredith thinks he is paying attention to God, but he isn't. He wouldn't have a clue how to. He's the very picture of II Timothy 3. And you know what that says:

"from such turn away."

Let's put it another way, do you really think that Roderick Meredith with all his Pharisaical trappings sets any kind of example that any God would sanction?

He doesn't even know what God is like and would have not a clue as how to live to set a godly example.

Too much testosterone, I guess.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Herbert Armstrong lied (what a shock!). He was baptized by a Sabbath keeping minister by the name of A. H. Stith. Paul Woods confirmed that for me in 2008 and Stith's daughter witnessed the baptism.

But then, people who are mental like Herbert Armstrong often confuse fact with delusion, as we have seen from Herbert Armstrong's Prophetic Record".

Mental.

Not mentally ill. There's no such thing: Either you are ill or you are mental.

Herbert Armstrong was mental.

Anonymous said...

9:15
No, in the matter of apostolic succession, his baptism should have been exactly that, baptist.
COG has no apostolic succession before 1844. It had the members switching from congregation to congregation and (large) parts of the so called "truths" as expounded upon in the autobiography.

nck

RSK said...

That was a joke, nck.

RSK said...

"Or sure looked like it?" You don't actually know?

Anonymous said...

8.12 AM asks 'how much are we like the world?' When ministers have asked this question, they were usually pushing culture, like the Ambassador College dress code, with sometimes looks ridiculous in other cultures. As one documentary on American fundamental Christianity stated, the dress code they settled on meant men should look like a 'Walt Disney executive.' I don't see this in my bible. Rather it says not to add to Gods word. Christ looked like everyone else to the point that Judas has to point Him out with a kiss. Judas didn't say 'it's the dude that looks like a Walt Disney executive.' In my books, cultural tastes such as dress and music (Frank Sinatra or Elvis or whatever) are trivial from a Christian viewpoint.
As for the original question, when I attended church in the 1980s, the church was like the world, but much worse. I can't help noticing how the world is becoming more like the church. For instance, attacks on freedom of speech, more intrusive government, more spying by the government on its citizens, increasingly stifling 'political correctness' etc etc. The church lead the world, and now the world has caught up with the church. Meaning society as a whole, has become one huge abusive cult.

Cheers TradingGuy

Anonymous said...

Rod Meredith wrote: "...In Jesus’ name, I ask all of you to join me in urgently crying out to our Father in heaven to restore this living faith into His Church!..."

Rod makes a huge assumption that is not true. He is assuming that his Global, I mean; his living group is God's Church, but what if God's Church is elsewhere and nowhere near his living group? Well, those of his group could still pray, but it would not benefit his living group or this faith.

God's Church exists someplace. And faith is a fruit of God's Spirit and God is not a waster, although Isaiah said He did create a waster. God gives out His faith by measure to those of His Church. Has God been some slacker? Does He not know what is going on within His Church?

When will Rod realize that he has been asking those of his manmade group to cry for so many years it would be no wonder if they had no tears left to cry.

Besides God does His own work(s) and I suspect He does not need our help, because He just does it.

"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." Acts 15:18

How faithful is or has Rod Meredith been?

God is faithful:

"Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." I Thess 5:23

God just isn't working in the living group as a whole and we know that by its fruits, which Rod has so clearly pointed out to us. Either that, or his god is a wimp! I'd rather suggest Rod look elsewhere for God's Church and then decide whether anybody needs to cry to God about it.

And time goes on...

John

Byker Bob said...

Is different from the Walt Disney executive mold necessarily rebellious? How many of us would have like to died if we could only have been riding along in the back seat of James Dean's '49 Merc, or be on a run with Sonny Barger of the Hells Angels? Instead we were treated, courtesy of HWA to classical music and extremely conservative clothing styles, the king's English and Republican politics. The Universal Ambassador Personality did not allow one the freedom to enjoy a Grateful Dead concert at Winterland, or to attend the Winternational Drag Races in Pomona. Many gave up these perfectly legitimate pleasures because false prophecies, and fear of the Germans co-opted their lives, yet here we all are 40+ years after the fact, and it is now obvious that HWA and his minions did not know prophecy from a hole in the ground! Those who snuck or realized early and left seem to have come out ahead. How long are people going to spend their time in the same old rut, missing out on life, just because the so-called ministry chooses to retain a Victorian attitude?

Obviously, one can go astray with hedonism, or by flagrantly breaking the law. You wouldn't want to have destroyed your mind with drugs at the GD concert, or to have committed crimes on the HA run, but there surely were a number of goodly experiences that many missed out on in the guise of "Mr. Armstrong says..."

BB

Steve D said...

Anon April 24 write "God's Church is somewhere . . ." Perhaps not. Is the church an organization or is it the body of Christ, made up of believers who are scattered throughout many organizations and in no organization at all?

DennisCDiehl said...

"I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it because you won't be able to find it...ever"
🙈

Anonymous said...

"Notice how Prince died on the Passover. There is typically some significant world event just prior to Passover or the feast of Tabernacles. This defies random probability and implies harassment from an external force. Hmmm."

I'm assuming you mean a supernatural force.
Which one do you suggest?
One of the three Christian Gods?
Allah?

Which one do you speak of and believe in? There are thousands of them.

Byker Bob said...

Heh! They probably have daemons in the operating systems of their computers.....

BB

Anonymous said...

Steve D asked: "...Is the church an organization or is it the body of Christ, made up of believers who are scattered throughout many organizations and in no organization at all?..."

What do you think? If the answer is "perhaps not," and in reality it is not, then God is a liar. And if God is a liar, then the Bible is full of lies too and cannot be useful to us.

You asked: Is the church an organization? I suspect not; however, its members may be organized. Regardless, the Church, the body of Christ is not something that has been completed yet. The Bible likens the Church to a Bride that is not yet completed, but someday it will be completed. In the meantime it is only composed of individual members scattered here and there. Members of God's Church, about 2,000 years ago began in the Jerusalem. Members were scattered then as they are today. Members scattered from the area of Judaea to Samaria and to the uttermost part of the earth.

Revelation 2-3 says that there would be seven Churches, or congregations or eras. I know that once upon a time HWA taught these as eras over the last approximately 2,000 years. Many have given up on that thought. My wife claims we weren't taught this; however, she could go back and review the individual lessons of the old 50-something Bible Correspondence Course and find lots of information on the 7 eras. I still personally believe in the eras and that the 6th and 7th and possibly very few individuals of the 5th era exist in a scattered condition today with the Laodiceans being the predominant one today in existence. There will be no 8th era.

I believe HWA was the servant for the Philadelphians (nothing to do with Gerald Flurry and his Philadelphians, although some may be embedded within his organization). I believe JWTkach Senior was the servant for the Laodiceans and that Joe had a different purpose to fulfill and part of that purpose was to end up with Laodiceans scattered all over the world...that Joe was their first and only leader. There will be no 8th leader. God had selected only 7 specific angels to be involved with those 7 eras to insure the characteristics mentioned in Revelation 2-3 would be as indicated. There is no 8th angel coming to fulfill another era, an 8th era. If the information indicated in Revelation 2-3 does not occur as God inspired, then God again comes across as a liar...and if a liar, then how could anything in the Bible be relied upon?

There is no doubt that these leaders (HWA, JWT Senior, United Ass., Cogwa Ass., Living group, Philadelphia group, etc. xcogs) have given us some Milk (basic Biblical doctrines), lots and lots of Junk Food (e.g. dumb, stupid, garbage prophecies that the Bible does not teach at all - eg. Who isn’t still looking for 10 nations/kings to show up on the world scene? Even looking for Jesus Christ to reign on earth for 1,000 years, which is impossible if He is at the Father’s right hand until all enemies are subdued, put down, etc.)

To be continued...

John

Anonymous said...

And it is continued here now...

Many who have observed a Passover service, either in the distant past, or in the most recent past: they would most likely have read and/or have heard something like the following:

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which SHALL believe on me through their word;

Jesus Christ was thinking about disciples who lived in his day and age...as well as others way off in the future who "...shall believe on me through THEIR word."

Well, if there is no word, or if that word is just a bunch of lies, then what do you have? Did Jesus Christ lie to us too? Are the Father and His Son the liars? And the Bible does speak of liars b/c Jesus said the following to the religious leaders of His day:

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44

If you were Satan; how would you inspire people to think about God the Father and Jesus Christ? Just look at the world and see, but, back to John 17:

21 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world MAY BELIEVE that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"

Does the world today believe that God the Father sent Jesus Christ? Does the world today believe that God the Father sent Christ our Passover sacrificed for us? Does the world today believe that God the Father sent some Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world?

Who in the world even knows God the Father, the one mentioned in that verse 22?

We have been told by Jesus Christ that the world cannot yet have God's Spirit to guide and lead them:

"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world CANNOT receive..." John 14:17

How did Jesus know that? Blindness prevails to this very day! What's new?

Again John 17 and Passover service:

23 "I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world MAY KNOW that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

Yet the world still does not know the Father sent Jesus Christ. There are many so-called God(s) spoken about in this world...many so-called Christ's spoken about too...perhaps in reality just a whole bunch of antichrists. The Bible says there would be many, not just one antichrist. Even the churches refer to themselves as "the churches of god, the greater churches of god", etc. Where do they get that from? Or, are those words spoken so each organization can strive to justify their own existence?

Again, John 17:

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath NOT KNOWN THEE: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

Anyway, Steve D, we can find all sorts of ideas and opinions regarding your question, but time will tell...

John
Submitted

Steve D said...

The churches of Revelation . . . era, perhaps; local churches of the time . . or traits found in all churches? Understanding needn't be one or another. . . perhaps all are correct. They were churches at the time . . . they may reflect the church throughout history; and we can say that they characterize churches today and, may I say, individuals. What would Jesus write to your church today? What would he write to you, personally, today? Perhaps it is more important for us to consider these questions than divide ourselves over which meaning is most correct.

Anonymous said...

Question "Is the church an organization or is it the body of Christ...."
Answer Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Anonymous said...

3.10 PM asks "What would Jesus write to your church today?" That's easy. I'm sure He would write something like: "Why have you reject my way of trade as I taught in the parable of the talents? Why have you instead embraced the traditions of Pharisaic men with their 'give way.' This is nothing more than robbing Peter to give to Paul, or 'passing the wealth around,' as your president Obama puts it. You should have heeded my servant TradingGuy. Bye now, keep up your prayer and bible study."

Cheers TradingGuy

Ralph said...

April 25, 2016 at 10:40 AM
John wrote:-

much that I find agreeable, including numerous scripture references. However he missed one I would like to see where he says at the end of his first segment:-
"....which is impossible if He is at the Father’s right hand until all enemies are subdued, put down, etc.)

also:-
"We have been told by Jesus Christ that the world cannot yet have God's Spirit to guide and lead them:
"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world CANNOT receive..." John 14:17
How did Jesus know that? Blindness prevails to this very day! What's new?"

John, are you suggesting that none today have been blessed with the gift of the Holy Spirit?

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

BARF

Anonymous said...

I always think it is strange that people ridicule scientology because it follows the ideas of a science fiction writer........and yet so much of what WCG believed is stranger. Then many of the Catholic ideas about purgatory, hell etc., rival anything for fantasy.

Perhaps the group that most reminds me of WCG is the Jehovahs Witnesses, and they are convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

The great science fiction writer William Gibson was quite a prophet and predicted our modern world with perhaps more accuracy than anyone (and he is still alive, but his recent books do not compare with books like Neuromancy.

Anonymous said...

"Does the Living Church of God Have a Demon Problem?"

Yes. And their names are Rod Meredith and Rod McNair.

Anonymous said...

Many LCG Charlotte brethren think there are demons in the Masonic Temple we meet in each Sabbath. I have heard stories of everything from getting an "eerie feeling" that make the hairs on the back of one's neck stand up to people claiming to have actually seen them while at church services. There have been stories of strange things happening in the "corn room" which is a room used for some ritual unknown to me that has corn in the husks hanging from the ceiling among throne-like chairs and other strange items. I have also heard about weird things happening in the little room ministers use to anoint and/or counsel people in that sits between the auditorium and the fellowship room. Most shrug it off believing that the demons couldn't possibly influence them in a room full of God's people. I guess they feel stronger than, shall we say Judas, who actually had personal interaction for an extended period of time with our Lord. Perhaps they believe that Rod Meredith makes them impervious. One thing's for sure, that building is creepy and I loathe going into it.

RSK said...

That would be the "Sheaf of Corn" (sometimes wheat or some other grain, but typically maize on this side of the ocean). Hangs from the ceiling in some form in most lodges.

Byker Bob said...

Maise, or corn?

Regional stuff can often become confusing. Some poor guy from Texas comes into the store asking for ice cream and the young guy stocking shelves misunderstands his accent and sends him over to the aisle where the Preparation H is kept.

BB

RSK said...

Hahahahha! Ass cream!

Anonymous said...

Ralph, April 25, 2016 at 10:40 AM wrote
******
"...John wrote:-

much that I find agreeable, including numerous scripture references. However he missed one I would like to see where he says at the end of his first segment:-
"....which is impossible if He is at the Father’s right hand until all enemies are subdued, put down, etc.)..."
******
Ralph, perhaps you may find some of the following scriptures helpful:

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, UNTIL I MAKE thine enemies thy footstool.

Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, TILL I MAKE thine enemies thy footstool?

Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, TILL I MAKE thine enemies thy footstool.

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, UNTIL I MAKE thine enemies thy footstool?

1 Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers BEING MADE SUBJECT unto him.

Those enemies include Satan and his angels, but they are not the last of the enemies. Here is another enemy that will not be finally taken care of until AFTER Satan, God's enemy, is allowed to exit that "bottomless pit" and again deceive the entire world. That is AFTER the theoretical Mickey Mouse Millennium, Satan-inspired man-made, of 1,000 years occurs and lasts for a short/little time/season.

And that last enemy? What is it?

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Who has the power of death? Another one of the enemies!

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;" Hebrews 2:14

Those verses show that Jesus Christ cannot return to reign on earth before that 1,000 years that we learned about from WCG and so many xcogs still falsely teach today.

That is not to mention/re-consider that so many people also turn a blind to Jesus Christ's return to earth again, for a second time, after His murder, burial, 3 days/nights in the grave, resurrection and visit to His Father in Heaven. He did not stay in Heaven, but returned to earth for a second time, but only for 40 days...a real second coming?

John

Anonymous said...

Ralph, April 25, 2016 at 10:40 AM wrote:
******
"...also:-
"We have been told by Jesus Christ that the world cannot yet have God's Spirit to guide and lead them:
"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world CANNOT receive..." John 14:17
How did Jesus know that? Blindness prevails to this very day! What's new?"
******

Frank,

Yes, blindness prevails to this very day as part of God's Plan of Salvation to save all humanity and later take/destroy Satan and his angels, but how did Jesus know what He knew? How did He know it wasn't time for the world to receive God's Spirit?

Oh, Jesus was just very smart! No, not really, but He did have a lot of help b/c He told us that of Himself He could do nothing. It was also said of Jesus that:

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren..."

He was flesh, blood and bone...just like us..."like unto his brethren" as it says there, but Jesus still had a lot of help. He, like us, was the workmanship of His Father's hands...and the Father was making a perfect Groom...the Bride had to later be made. Similarly, when was Adam made? Just before Eve. God always does things decently and in order; doesn't He? God is not the author of confusion, although there is an author of confusion.

So, how did Jesus know? Here is a very helpful verse, among others, to explain what He knew if we allow Jesus Himself to tell us:


John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Believe? Ephesians 1:19, in an earlier post, explained believing came by way of God's Spirit.

John

Anonymous said...

Ralph, April 25, 2016 at 10:40 AM asked:
******
"...John, are you suggesting that none today have been blessed with the gift of the Holy Spirit?..."
******
No, I have suggested no such thing. After God made that Groom, it was near time for the creation of a Bride, which the Bible speaks of. That Bride has not yet been completed, but the building of it has been in process for the past approximately 2,000 years now.

An analogy was used by Jesus Christ where sheep, as part of a fold, exist in some pasture:

John 10:7 "Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."

Those sheep of God's Church are in the world, but not of the world, as part of a fold in some pasture: a place where one is fed spiritual food, sort of speak. Christ is the "Door." When is a door not a door? Most say: "When it is ajar," but there is another answer. "When it is Christ!" Why did the Israelites put lamb's shed blood on their doorposts? It pictured way off in the future a "Lamb," who would one day be sacrificed and covered with his own shed blood - another story!

So, God does give out His gift of His Spirit to those sheep. What is a benefit of that? There are many, but here is one: they shall be saved! We read that in verse 9. The Bride, or a Body, can be another analogy. It is still incomplete. It's a work of God in progress. God begins something in each "sheep" and God says He will finish, or complete, it (Phil 1:6), or He lied to us. And each of them sheep are drawn/dragged by the Father into that pasture. God knows they won't voluntarily come to Him, because of another spirit that dwells within them (Eph 2:2; James 4:5, etc.), but He has veys to help us cooperate. God can't fail! God Spirit will be given to those who make up this one fold, and when it is completed, that will not be the end of God's works. Why not?

To be con’t

John

Anonymous said...

And that continuation follows:

There is another group (vast majority of the world) of sheep, not yet of this fold, that God will yet deal with. After all, the Father sent His Son to save the world...and NOT condemn the world; didn't He? God is not a respecter of persons, but He has a Plan and He must do things decently and in order, whether we agree with Him or not. What about them "other sheep?"

John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Those sheep won't be brought by Jesus Christ until AFTER the Bride is completed, AFTER the 1,000 years, AFTER Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit, AFTER that short/little time/season...and Satan and his angels are AGAIN subdued...in fact, destroyed...and at some point thereafter, the second resurrection occurs for "the rest." There is no need of a 3rd resurrection.

Anyway, God, not being any respecter of persons, will pour out His Spirit upon the "other sheep" at that time, because they too will be blessed with that gift also.

Perhaps you may be wondering: how does God know all about these things?

"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." Acts 15:18

Huh? Not everyone will believe that, but for those who do there is also this:

"For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world." Hebrews 4:3

That Groom was completed, sort of speak. The Bride will have been completed, sort of speak. After that and a wedding, however that works out, there comes the children...usually, but Satan also has his own ways of doing things (John 8:44; Eph 2:2) and accomplishing sin (I John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil..." - e.g. as in the murder of Abel in :12) in this world's inhabitants and, for example, bring children along before a wedding. Such is life in this present evil world.

Anyway, God just does His will in accomplishing His Plan of Salvation to save all humanity and subsequently take/destroy Satan and his angels.

And time really will tell........

John

Anonymous said...

I have heard several people that work at LCG headquarters in Charlotte say that they think there are demons in the media building (LCG owns two buildings next door to one another). Some have said that they are "sex demons" and that is why there was such a rampant problem with adulterous office sex going when the media employees "worked late" into the night.

Anonymous said...

Well I certainly hope the LCG media swingers are better at shagging than they are at producing quality programing.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what Priam thinks of LCG's demon problem. Where are you??? It's interesting that no pro-LCGers came on to refute this story.