Friday, May 27, 2016

Dave Pack Can't Afford To Pay His Ministers

The Leadership Chart
for the
Restored Church of God

Money has always been an issue in the Church of God.  There never seemed to be enough.  Leaders were constantly begging or guilt-tripping the members into sending in all they had to keep the "work" going and the leadership in their high lifestyles.  This is the case for Dave Pack, isolated on his Wadsworth compound as membership and income dwindle down, as he struggles to make payroll.

After producing the most superfantabulous web site the world has ever seen, Pack next dumped millions of dollar into building a physical plant that is unmatched in the entire world or at least in Ohio.  Nothing compares, nothing is as magnificent or is as beautiful as the Wadsworth compound that sits between a gas fume belching freeway and a huge big box cement wasteland.

All of that beauty, the mismanagement of money, and dwindling tithe base is sinking Dave's awesome dreams.  Pack is struggling to pay the few remaining ministers he has. Only those in the upper echelons, HQ employees or are intermarried into the cult leadership families are getting full salary.  The further down the hierarchy you are the less money you make, if at all,

If Dave Pack would learn to keep his narcissistic mouth shut and stop making such exaggerated claims he might be able to retain his members.  Nearly Jailed Bob Elisha Elijah Amos Thiel should take the warning to heart.

Exit and Support  has this letter up:

May 23, 2016
Dave Pack is pressed for money, as he still is not paying lower ministers for their full time work. At most, he is paying half pay. Many ministers are working for no pay. I do know that he has lost a big chunk of members by now claiming to be the "Elijah." Anyone, who takes time to check out HWA, especially if they followed him, just won't buy it. --Impacted by RCG


Connie Schmidt said...

Pack is another Socialist/Communist "all things common" dictatorship that is falling apart and becoming destitute and desperate, just like Venezuela currently.

Economics and market driven expenditures and returns are necessary in all human endeavors. The COG is not exempt!

Byker Bob said...

Some of the ACOGs have their ministry on board as a predominantly honorary, unsalaried position. I'm thinking mostly those we used to know as being local or preaching elders. The unsalaried ones maintain their own jobs, using St. Paul's activities as a tentmaker with Aquilla and Priscilla as their model. The problem for Dave is that he sees himself as being on an equal level with St. Paul, but stops short of doing his own "tent-making". IOW, this is another area of not leading by example. Frankly, if his health food store was as successful as he has described, that would have been an excellent way to fund his own salary while performing the rigors of his ministry.

The interesting aspect to this all is that people and organizations are both resilient and resourceful. RCG is not going to go out of business next week, although we might wish it so. Dave has the ability to cannibalize his assets indefinitely to keep things going, but he will most likely lay the financial burden on his members. Of course, the elders could probably take up sabbath offerings, but with the size of the micro-congregations these days, that would hardly be effective.


Floyd 1944 said...

Isn't it against the law to not pay workers?

Anonymous said...

Dave Pack KNOWS that is not his official organization chart. As a matter of provable fact he can prove it!! He has carefully examined his shoulders and there is NO BIRD S__T THERE! So it can't be true!

Anonymous said...

After fleecing his flock of sheeple of all their material wealth, and coercing them to send it all in, and pull big triggers, they apparently have nothing left to send in anymore. He spent their money on a monument to his ego, which is very expensive to maintain without a continual influx of new victims. His spectacular failure at prophesying all remaining COG people would flock to him, and his hope that they would give all their money to him when they do, never came to pass as he predicted. They never came to him, and therefore never gave all their money to him. A "true" prophet would have foreseen this though!

Thomas Munson

Anonymous said...

Pack not only claims to be "Elijah" but now also, "that Prophet". He is also now teaching a "first dominion" will come before the tribulation. Also, since "common", most members have already given all, and with no new membership, no new money comes in.

I see their website now posts sermons. He took them off a while ago claiming he didn't want people to sit home and listen to his sermons. He must have re-posted them hoping that some will get "hooked" and want to join. However, I did notice that he has not posted his "Clarion Call" or "Common" sermon series. Probably does not want to scare the "fish" off the bait. He will tell them later, exactly like how you find out about third tithe, after about two years in the church. (Unless someone slips and tells you ahead of time in casual conversation.)

Anonymous said...

This might put the brakes on his new home building project on campus.(For himself and select ministers that "need" to live on campus. ie: the two witnesses, his son-in-law and Jeff Ambrose) Or "Doc" Pastor, his Stanley Rader. They just got a big loan approved from the bank,(a few months ago) but this is not free money, it must be paid back. Maybe this will be used to "pay the bills" for the short term.

The membership will really need to go out and "fundraise" this summer!

Anonymous said...

To Floyd and Byker Bob:
Dave got the Health Food Store family business using unethical means (heard this from a very reliable source) . . even if they can't prove illegal. . . .
Don't think he won't find more ways to get money/free labor from people..

outside of his followers, he'd be called a "Chiseler"

Anonymous said...

"They just got a big loan approved from the bank,(a few months ago) but this is not free money, it must be paid back. Maybe this will be used to "pay the bills" for the short term."

He might be hoping they will flee to Petra before the loan has to be paid back, like he was telling people when he commanded people to borrow against their homes and send him the money.

Thomas Munson

Anonymous said...

Speaking of free labor, I know of one who worked at HQ "free", he was on state unemployment compensation. And when that ran out, they (HQ) put him on payroll. What about "squeaky clean", like Pack claims. I think this is illegal, but of course, anything is ok if it is for the "good of the work" as Dave likes to say.

This is only the tip of the berg, I have many more!

DennisCDiehl said...

The Sacred Sixteen , no doubt, are still practicing their techniques for keeping their salaries. You don't disagree or "counsel" Dave Pack and expect to keep your job. Dave is a user and when one becomes less usable, out they go. Dave is "the foolish Shepherd" and the fact he has anyone left still amazes me. RCG members must be the most uncritically and illogically thinking folk on the planet when it comes to what the Bible means by what it says, who wrote it and why. Dave is an EXPERT in making the Scriptures mean what they NEVER meant or ever could mean.

Anyway, this is probably why these men still have their jobs......

"15) Next, for those who will see the value of how to pursue spiritual matters, there is this: After fervently seeking God about it, not one reason the prophecy is off this year (2013) ever emerged in the minds of even one of our 16 Headquarters ministers! I (we) have NEVER prayed about, studied over, meditated on, fasted about and counseled with other ministers regarding a subject more than this one—in fact no other subject is even close!"


Why Unification THIS Year (2013)
David Pack

Anonymous said...

Actually yes, more than one did. That is why there are no longer 16!

Anonymous said...

The ones that stayed, however, are truly in it as hirelings. I cannot understand any way possible that they can truly believe in their heart that Pack's teachings are true. By their fruits you shall know them.

Anonymous said...

Week one: We will build the third temple, since we know how to build, because we built HQ.

Week two message: Christ will bring the temple with Him down from heaven when he comes to set up the "first dominion".

Week three: The carpenter angels in Zechariah will build it.

Week four: We will be carried by angels into the "first dominion".

Week five: We would be burned up in the atmosphere if angels were to transport us to Jerusalem.

Week six: We will be "resplendent" and fly ourselves to Jerusalem in the "first dominion".

Week seven: More of the same.

Just a sampling of the latest sermon series by Pack. He himself claims to be up at all hours of the night now getting the latest "revelations from demons, I mean god".

Anonymous said...


Why do you think Pack would change the HWA mo that worked for him for so many years? I mean as long as he stayed true to HWA doctrine, all went well for him. Now, "first dominion, Elijah, Joshua, that Prophet, etc." Many are leaving, including ministers, and now financial trouble, why jeopardize all? "Many will be deceivers and deceived themselves". What do you think?

Anonymous said...

Maybe RCG is a mere work of men, and one day they will all rest in the grave as all others, someday to be resurrected and judged by God. I wonder what He will say of their tactics? "Well done good and faithful servant, or I know you not."

Anonymous said...

I can't help wondering whether his members are trying to buy eternal life by giving their all, financially. It says 'to him that overcomes,' not 'to those who give all their money to the Church of Dave Pack.'

Hedgehog said...

These people weren't socialist/communist. They were dictators, tyrants, fascists. Control from the top down ---- shit! Why would anyone sign up voluntarily for something like that. The poor children --- th had no choice. It ruined/destroyed a lot of lives and it sonds like it's still happening with some of these shards and slivers. Hopefully it will all die out in a few years. I grieve for the ones I knew and the one who shot himself to death.

DennisCDiehl said...

Anonymous said...

Why do you think Pack would change the HWA mo that worked for him for so many years? I mean as long as he stayed true to HWA doctrine, all went well for him. Now, "first dominion, Elijah, Joshua, that Prophet, etc." Many are leaving, including ministers, and now financial trouble, why jeopardize all? "Many will be deceivers and deceived themselves". What do you think?

I believe Dave Pack has a personality disorder that he can't control without some kind of outside intervention which , of course, he would never consider. . Whether it is pure narcissism in all its classic symptoms or a simple perverse and wrong headed view of himself and scripture, time will tell. All his ministry Dave sees Demons influencing people and the reason behind just about anything that thwarts him. I recall him visiting my sister to tell her that her crying baby, my niece, was disturbing his sermon and she had a demon. He also told her to spank it out of her.

Dave is truly one of the strangest people I have ever encountered and a very bad memory for the congregation that my family attended when he was their pastor.

Dave used HWA to launch himself and attract a following. Now he is adding his own ideas and finding ways to put himself above all with additional BS he thinks is inspired and from his God. It's just from Dave and this is all going to end very badly.

Anonymous said...

I do not live in the States but I ask are there any authorities that we can contact to warn them about this "group"?It is frightening to see this happening.

Anonymous said...

To the 'May 28, 2016 at 12:40 AM' commenter,

Here in the USA, an incredible number of crazy and abusive Christian churches thrive, and are given tax-free status. Even beyond that, they seem to have no shortage of high profile people to defend them.

Most recent case-in-point-
Last week, I watched Bishop Eddie Long being interviewed by Steve Harvey. Harvey lobbed Eddie Long a bunch of softball questions.
(Even though Bishop Eddie Long settled out of court for sexually molesting several boys, deceptively proffered his dubious credentials, and has a history of financial impropriety, among many other problems.)
Eddie Long claims to have a doctorate in Pastoral Ministry from the International College of Excellence.

As far as I can tell, the 'International College of Excellence' was only "accredited" by the International Accrediting Commission (IAC), which listed faculty members including Arnold Ziffel(the pig on Green Acres), Edward J. Haskell(of Leave It To Beaver fame), and M. Howard, Jerome Howard, and Lawrence Fine(The Three Stooges).
I kid you not.
During Steve Harvey's interview of Bishop Eddie Long, Eddie over and over again criticized and demonized those who were no longer 'on his side'.

There are so so many similar examples of USA Christian megachurch pastors' sleaziness and craziness! I'm only relaying one from last week for brevity's sake.

Oh, and here's an fun link to click on about how easy it is to have a crazy tax-exempt church here in the USA-

Click here: Click!

Anonymous said...

Dennis said" I recall him visiting my sister to tell her that her crying baby, my niece, was disturbing his sermon and she had a demon. He also told her to spank it out of her.

I have this fantasy. Dave Pack is giving the MOST IMPORTANT SERMON EVER, and one of the babies in his congregation starts to get noisy. Dave thinks to himself, "Wow, the devil is now possessing a baby to try and trip me up!" He puts on his most polite face and tone and gently tells the mother to please quite your child. Then all the babies in the congregation start to unleash the demonic onslaught!


Anonymous said...

When the ministers leave, he will just "anoint" new ones. There are many who can't wait to get their chance to "lord it over them." After all, they are all so qualified, AC graduates, years of experience, humble and meek, putting others ahead of themselves, etc.

In reality all they know are Pack's ways and ideas. Many have only been in the Church a few years, and never knew anything of WCG. They just want to climb the RCG ladder so they can be served by the brethren. At least LCG claims to have a servant leadership, RCG does not, and doesn't even claim to.

Your mind must never question doctrine, decisions, etc. Pack recently said in a sermon that the Bereans would have been sinning if they would have went against anything they were taught by the church. Apparently, searching the scriptures to "see if it was so", only applies if it matches what your leader is teaching you.

Byker Bob said...

My fantasy would be that Dave is giving a sermon at their Feast of Tabernacles revealing that he is yet another Biblical character, and the entire congregation begins to say to one another, "What a bunch of bull shit!" and walks out.


Anonymous said...

6.49PM It's like Galileo and the Catholic church all over. To the Catholic church, the central issue wasn't whether Galileo ideas were right or wrong, but rather who has the final say. In other words, if the church disagrees, ditch your beliefs, and agree with the church. If not, off to the torture rack.

Anonymous said...

BB, your comment at 9:15 is priceless. Oh how I would love to be a fly on the wall to see that one. We know it would never happen, but yes, we can fantasize. :)