Thursday, May 19, 2016

LCG Member on Egyptair Plane That Crashed



This was sent to me from several LCG members this morning.  An LCG member from Paris was killed in what looks like a terrorist attack upon an Egyptair flight heading to Cairo.

Egyptair flight MS804: 'Terrorism more likely than technical failure', says Egypt – live


(CNN) EgyptAir Flight 804 vanished off radar on its way from Paris to Cairo with 66 people aboard, an airline official said Thursday. The plane was flying at 37,000 feet when it disappeared with 56 passengers and 10 crew members, the airline tweeted. 

Monique Dalle, member of the Paris congregation, wife of Jean-Jacques DALLE, is on the flight MS804 that disappeared en route from Paris to Cairo. Monique was to see their daughter Esther. Jean-Jacques and their son Nathan are at home in Paris without news from the authorities. Please pray for the family.

28 comments:

Lisa Williams said...

that is truly sad, prayers for the family....

Byker Bob said...

10-4. They are in my prayers. This is an unimaginable and very sad tragedy.

BB

Redfox712 said...

That is awful news. Just terrible. My condolences to family and friends.

Anonymous said...

Granted, this isn't the best time to bring this up, but when I attended church services, I prayed umpteen times for other people. Every prayer request from the pulpit, I took seriously, and payered for. When I had a problem, no one gave a hoot or prayed for me. As I said Admin, the pray request thingy is rigged. The 'we are all one big family and lets pray for one another,' is a myth. This is the voice of experience. It's not what the bible teaches, but it is what exists.
What exists, exists.

Anonymous said...

My sincere condolences to the Dalles Family.

A terrible tragedy.

L Jeffries said...

After Terry Ratzmann went on his shooting spree Gerald Flurry commented during a message that he felt the tragedy happened due to LCG members not being protected because they were not in his group, i.e. not under God's government.

I do hope that none of the other COG leaders, Flurry included, try to cash in on what is truly a terrible and sickening tragedy.

"Join us and be safe" has been the central selling point of the PCG's message from it's inception.

DennisCDiehl said...

The idea of special protection from the time and chances of living on the planet is merely just that, time and chance. We can all cite times when we were "protected" and that is true of the churched and the unbeliever. Sometimes you luck out and sometimes you don't.

The "Place of Safety" was always a hot button issue with me personally and I not only did not preach it, but I absolutely hated hearing about from the zealots and Waterhouse Groupies. The idea of a place of final training was just nuts with all its associated fears and "how can that happen?" Useless speculation and had anyone been so foolish as to declare it "time to flee" I would have, right out the door.

Fanatical COG's make too much out of being protected as proof of anything. The mind does like the concept however and it does firm up one's beliefs that one is special. This could be said across the board of any church that has a near miss in its midst and thus confirm their own correctness and special status with the Deity.

While the fate of the original Gospel Disciples is questionable historically, it is obvious "being protected" was not high on any Deities list for Apostles. It certainly was not high on any list in any church I pastored. Adults and children died in the most natural and unnatural of ways over a long time or suddenly and without warning. None were raised from the dead. Whatever angels were supposed to be watching over children were often on vacation when needed.

I find it hard to believe that I was distractted and diverted from a plane out of LAX when a student which went on to be hit by a fighter Jet over Duarte, California or a head on crash in Cumberland Gap , KY just so I could go on to do what? I did luck out just as my grandparents did when unbooking from Titanic in April of 1912 at the request of friends who asked them to be in June Weddings in the Netherlands. (That's the family story at least) . Let's face it, had some ancestor either ducked or not ducked 10,000 years ago, we'd not be here either.

Anonymous said...

I developed a paralyzing fear of flying after leaving the WCG in 1995. It relates back to something a minister said, about how we lose God's "hedge of protection" if we ever leave the WCG. For me, that translated into a plane crash. Illogical, irrational .. yes. But I have never been able to shake the fear, or fly since. Once I left the WCG, the offshoots didn't interest me, nor did I trust any of them.

And here is a member, who didn't leave the most fundamental of the WCG offshoots, in a plane crash. It isn't supposed to happen. Where is the "hedge of protection" and all the invisible angels that we can't see who are looking out for us. None of that was true. It is all a matter of time and chance. How we were all lulled into a false sense of security.

I also remember any time there was an earthquake, tornado, flood, you name the disaster, the only ones who were ever spared were WCG members. Of course, we could never really prove that. They were always in other parts of the U.s. or other countries. Sometimes I have to wonder how accurate the information ever was.

I truly feel for the family of this innocent member. I can only imagine the horror he felt.

Steve D said...

Isn't is strange that the C of Go will write articles condemning the doctrine of the Rapture, yet teach a "place of safety?" The only difference between the two is "where they are going to be kept safe." The "place of safety" was the Church of God's own "rapture."

Anonymous said...


DennisCDiehl on May 20, 2016 at 5:29 PM said...

“I find it hard to believe that I was distractted and diverted from a plane out of LAX when a student which went on to be hit by a fighter Jet over Duarte, California or a head on crash in Cumberland Gap, KY just so I could go on to do what? I did luck out just as my grandparents did when unbooking from Titanic in April of 1912 at the request of friends who asked them to be in June Weddings in the Netherlands. (That's the family story at least). Let's face it, had some ancestor either ducked or not ducked 10,000 years ago, we'd not be here either.”



Yikes! Dennis the Menace, you are just a disaster waiting to happen. When you walk down the street you should glance behind you sometimes to see if the buildings are falling down in the street behind you and the cars are crashing and airplanes are falling out of the sky. Why are you so hard-hearted and ungrateful after so many miracles?

Did you not pay attention or learn anything at Ambassador College? Our ancestors do not go back 10,000 years, but rather only about 6,000 years when God created Adam and Eve (NOT Adam and Steve, or the whole plan of God would have gotten literally all buggered up from the very beginning). Our ancestors also made it on board Noah's ark. They were obviously descended from Shem so we ended up white, rather than from Ham or Japheth or we would have ended up black or yellow. Of course, some nice white people can still end up black and blue (Jewish colors) after getting beat up by all the anti-Semites.

Stop all your selfish whining and feeling sorry for yourself. Gird up your loins like a Real Man with some 100% cotton boxer shorts with little pictures of sailboats on them, put on your 100% pure virgin wool suit, and maybe even choke yourself with a necktie, and concentrate on teaching some of the Good Things that you ought to be teaching as a Minister, instead of carelessly repeating all the nonsense that you read in nonsense books about evilution, astrology, and other works of fiction and propaganda.

Of course, the Good Things that you were taught at Ambassador College that you ought to be teaching do NOT include old wrong prophetic guesses, bad examples set by GTA, Waterhouse flushing noise, or quack theories that were blowing through the church at the time. But there were some Good Things, and you should concentrate on those. There are always bad people around. Do not become one of them yourself.

Anonymous said...

The place of safety doctrine is explained in Rev 12:14 if you have eyes to see. The Rapture theory taught by fundammental Christianity confuses the place of safety with the resurrection. The place of safety doctrine is a fact. The Rapture theory is a mix of truth and misinterpretation. But God allows this confusion in order to separate the sheep from the goats.

Anonymous said...

Steve D said...
"Isn't is strange that the C of Go will write articles condemning the doctrine of the Rapture, yet teach a "place of safety?"

That was the basic line of thought when I was with CGI during the 90's.
Dennis, I had a similar experience which I attached too much metaphysical signifigance to it some 20 years ago. I had some old tools that I didn't think were too valuable and I wanted some cash so I stopped by the local pawn shop to get an estimate. He offered me alot more than I was expecting and told me to bring them in the next morning after 9:00 am, because he was really interested and wanted to have some free time to look them over carefully. The next morning and at the same time he told me to come back, he was a victim of an armed robbery. He was shot four times, twice in the head. Amazingly, he lived another ten years. Back then I drew metaphysical connections when I thought about it, but today I remember that the tools where kind of scattered about and that I was too lazy that morning to collect them together and clean them up and bring them in.

DBP

Anonymous said...

LCG now teaches the rapture. It's part of their "upgrades" curtesy of Richard Ames.

First the place of safety, then we are raptured up to heaven for the wedding supper.

DennisCDiehl said...

Anonymous said...
The place of safety doctrine is explained in Rev 12:14 if you have eyes to see. The Rapture theory taught by fundammental Christianity confuses the place of safety with the resurrection. The place of safety doctrine is a fact."

The Book of Revelation is a failed first century "prophecy" written most likely just prior to the fall of Jerusalem in 70. It was written to encourage Jewish Christians to hang on and that Rome would be ousted in 3 1/2 years.

"Revelation was the swan song of Militant Jewish Christianity. When Jerusalem was destroyed, when Rome waxed more and more followers, when the book itself was proved totally false within two years, when it became evident the Jewish Messiah Christ would not come, the Hebrew Christians lost their virility and their cult faded under the combined assault of orthodox Judaism and of Gentile Christianity"

Religion of the Occident
Larson

The Church of God will never mature until they give up on basing everything on prophecy as if they knew. The NT writers were WRONG about their soons, times far spent and things which must shortly come to pass. So it is today and always will be.

Revelation is anything but and almost didn't make the Canon for very good reasons.

DennisCDiehl said...

Anon ( of course) said: ". There are always bad people around. Do not become one of them yourself."

I am just fine thank you. You say "Evil-ution" I say "Cretin-ationism" :)

Anon covers true history:

"Did you not pay attention or learn anything at Ambassador College? Our ancestors do not go back 10,000 years, but rather only about 6,000 years when God created Adam and Eve (NOT Adam and Steve, or the whole plan of God would have gotten literally all buggered up from the very beginning). Our ancestors also made it on board Noah's ark. They were obviously descended from Shem so we ended up white, rather than from Ham or Japheth or we would have ended up black or yellow. Of course, some nice white people can still end up black and blue (Jewish colors) after getting beat up by all the anti-Semites."

You're kidding right????

And it's astronomy not astrology.

DennisCDiehl said...

And..."Stop all your selfish whining and feeling sorry for yourself."

I prefer to think of it as being open and honest with experiences in life and ministry using my actual name so people will know exactly who it is relating to them. I can't go back to being a minister because I was mythtaken in my ministry. I did not understand nor was I taught the actual history, origin, authorship or politic of the Bible nor did anyone address the obvious contradictions. "Science" classes at AC were pathetic and badly taught with an agenda all pointing to the wrong conclusions. The Booklets "A Whale of a Tale" and "A theory for the Birds" have long since been proven and easily so be childish and ignorant.

My life motto now is and always will be and one I have passed on to my Grandchildren in books on Science I have given them....

Sit Before Fact
“Sit down before fact as a little child, be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abysses nature leads, or you shall learn nothing” – T. Huxley

Byker Bob said...

One of the bad habits of Armstrongism is that of presumptuously inserting itself and its leaders into Bible verses, particularly prophetic ones. You have HWA being the end time Elijah, turning the hearts of the sons to their fathers, or "God's Apostle". You have his church being assigned as the Philadelphia Era, yet today, all of the splinters are calling one another "Laodicean", even as their leaders call themselves apostles and prophets, third in charge, etc. with Bible names like Zerrubbabel.

Why not get a little objective perspective on Rev. 12? Instead of assuming that it is valid to insert a small branch of the Jewish style Christians into these prophecies, leaving the Noahchide gentile Christians out, why not read some of the excellent commentaries that were written by people who predated Armstrongism? Clarke's commentary is a good place to start. The problem is, Armstrongism as it exists today is in such disarray, shrinking and most certainly unblessed, that there is no way it could be taken as a unit on the wings of eagles to a place of safety. Nor would you want to be part of the group at the place of safety, due to the cruelty of the leadership. The final training would in no way be the type of spiritual mentorship that members expect.

Clarke's places an historic context on Rev. 12, of which the Armstrong movement was apparently ignorant. It makes for some rather dry reading, but contains some information which we were not given in the WCG and ACOGS. Once Anglo Saxon people were scientifically eliminated as being even remotely related to Jews or Israelites, the entire Armstrong prophecy mold went out the window.

And as a final statement of fact, Ambassador College was of no redeeming value whatsoever. It didn't even qualify as a placebo, or for that matter a placenta.

BB

Anonymous said...

It is my understanding that I Thess 4 refers to the rapture of the church, but Rev 12 is for the Israelites who convert to Christianity during the Tribulation to escape to a place of safety. The Church are not under judgment,they don't go through the Tribulation.

Anonymous said...

12.28PM "selfish whining and feeling sorry for yourself" is in fact good and healthy. Yours is the typical anti self-love church teaching. According to the churches, everyone should spend their time and energies serving the tares hand and foot. To serve one self is wrong since only the tares matter. This is the fox talking to the chickens.

Retired Prof said...

Replying to Anon 12:28, Dennis writes, "You're kidding right????"

It seemed to me also that comment had to be from a troll. Yet if so, it's much higher quality satire than most trolls can produce. Besides, it's so close to the COG idea of truth and so slathered with COG smugness that it could actually be an Armstrongist exuding the same zeal that animated Gerald Waterhouse. This one is so hard to call that it falls into the category of "poe."

Anonymous said...

The Case Against The Place Of Safety

Points:

1) There are two groups of people in Revelation 12:13-17. They are clearly described in the immediate context. One is “the woman who gave birth to the male Child”. Every preacher I have ever heard promote the place of safety glosses right over this. At most they give a passing reference to the woman being the church, but they never address how the church could possibly have given birth to Jesus, since the church didn’t exist then. Some might argue that there is only one continuous woman from the time of Abraham down through today. But Revelation 12 clearly talks about TWO sets of people and makes clear distinction between them. The second set of people is “the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Rev 14:12 describes the saints as “those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus”, a nearly identical description as the second set of people, those in Rev 12:17. So, it appears that Revelation 12:17 is the saints (the church) and 12:13 is not. So, who is the woman of verse 13? It can only be the Jews. It was the Jews who gave birth to the male Child; it is the Jews who will be taken to the place of safety. And the church is indeed her offspring. Further, the faulty teaching that the church of God gave birth to the man Child, is made worse by the inference that since only the Philadelphia era of the church of God will go to the place of safety, the Philadelphia era of the church of God must have given birth to the man child. That is stretching the scripture far beyond the breaking point. And, of course it requires the church eras theory of the Revlation churches, an iffy theory at best. So, the conclusion is that it is the Jews who will be taken to a place of safety, not the church.

2) The place of safety that the woman fled to for 1260 days in Rev 12:6 is singular, as is the place of safety in Rev 12:14. Yet the church has inconsistently taught that the verse 6 place was not a single place yet verse 14 is.

3) Matthew 24:16 says “let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains”. It says nothing about those who are elsewhere. Who is in Judea now, the church of God or the Jews?

4) The KJV refers to the people of Rev 12:17 as the remnant. The Greek word is not explicit on what remnant means. The concept of remnant in common English is that of leftover scraps after the good stuff has been taken away. However, the Biblical concept is quite different. “Remnant” is referred to as “very holy” when used for the offering portion remaining for the priests. The book of Ezra refers to the returning Jews as a remnant. Isaiah and Jeremiah talk of a remnant returning to the land. Ezekiel talks of a remnant that shall be saved. The point is that the remnant of Rev 12:17 is not some inferior Laodicean Christians, but the choice elect. There is no indication in Rev 12:17 that they are anything otherwise.

5) Revelation 13:7 says Satan shall war against the saints and overcome them, they don’t escape. Daniel 7:25, too. It doesn’t say that some will escape and some won’t.

6) There is a promise of protection for the faithful Christian at the time of the end, but it is not the place of safety of Revelation 12. Revelation 3:10 clearly says that the faithful will be spared in the time of trial. “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world” This is addressed to the church at Philadelphia. If you believe in church eras and therefore conclude that it is the Philadelphian era that is going to the place of safety, then you are confronted with trying to explaining how the Philadelphian era gave birth to the man child. Luke 21:36 also promises end-time protection to those “worthy”, “Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass”.

Anonymous said...

The place of safety doctrine has been invented and abused by church leaders to manipulate people into staying in a human organization in order to be protected during the great tribulation. This, of course, gives more power to the leaders, both in terms of more money and in terms of more personal loyalty. Once this place of safety myth is shown for the fraud that it is, people are then more free to follow a leader because he follows Christ, as opposed to following a leader only to save their own skin.

Anonymous said...


Retired Prof said...

“It seemed to me also that comment had to be from a troll. Yet if so, it's much higher quality satire than most trolls can produce.”



Hey Prof,

Flattery alone will not get you across the bridge. Come up with some coins. What ails you ivory tower talkers living in your dream world of imaginary creatures that you always call your intellectual superiors “trolls” whenever you cannot refute their irrefutable logic? Maybe we think that you are ugly too, and that your mother dresses you funny too, and that your education is lacking something important. The view of the river from under the bridge is beautiful, so why do you criticize those who live there as a deliberate lifestyle choice, and also because they lack rent money? Now either pay the toll or else do not come around our adopted bridges, you talking cheapskate.

Yours Truly,
The “Troll”

Anonymous said...

LCG uses the place of safety as an example of why its members need to blindly obey the ministry. After all, what if one of them were to call you and tell you to flee to the Monroe, NC airport at midnight and you wasted time questioning or doubting thereby missing the plane to flee to the place of safety. They believe God will notify the ministry and the ministry will in turn notify those worthy.

In other words, if you aren't obedient to Rod McNair and others like him, you might just miss your only opportunity to be spared (McNair and League told me this to my face - they also told me that if they called and told me to drive circles around the block for an hour, I should obey).

LCG ministers are apparently gate keepers now. Just like Catholic priests.

Anonymous said...

I sincerely hope Rod Meredith doesn't exploit this tragedy to make money like he did for that poor girl who died at LCG camp last summer.

They STILL have a link on their website for donations in her name.

I understand paying for the funeral and expenses related to getting her body home, etc. but RCM took advantage of the situation and went WAY beyond the bounds of good taste in his continued begging and exploitation of such a horrible event.

It is shameful.

Retired Prof said...

Heh heh. Thanks, troll.

Anonymous said...

it is not the physical jew but the spiritual jew, Romans 2:29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.

in fact The Lord says in rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

Who is he talking about? Clearly those who keep his commandments! Those who are loved by him keep his commandments. And they love one another. Examine yourselves.

Isaiah 49:23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

Revelation 12:14 says, “But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.”

However, we find a further prophecy in the same context that tells us at least part of the Church will suffer persecution at the same time that God protects others: “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (verse 17).

Romans 9 :18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
Matt 5:11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

The Bible records many ways by which God protected His people in the past, but does not reveal specifically how, where, when—or even all of the “who”—He will protect in the end. However, we have confidence that He will reveal what we need to know at the essential time. In the meantime, there can be no doubt our focus must be on the spiritual preparation for Christ's return and the establishment of our Father's Kingdom.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
russlesheets@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

God can protect people from the coming tribulation by letting them die from old age. A few years of 'sleep' and presto.