Sunday, July 3, 2016

The Battling Church of God Archives Sites



Ever since the Worldwide Church of God imploded into hundreds and hundreds of splinter groups, there has been one failed attempt after another to "get back on track." There are the groups and web sites that claim to only follow those church teachings prior to 1986. There are others that claim the truth only exists prior to 1974.  Others harken back to the time before Loma Armstrong's death in 1967.  It was all a conspiracy of the liberals and Satan to thwart God from getting his message across to the true believers. Satan has always proven to be more powerful than God, at least in the COG realm.

Now that Satan succeeded and the church has become irrelevant in the eyes of the world and most church members, there are those that still struggle to preserve the "truth once restored." Just like the hundreds and hundreds of splinter COG's out there claiming they are the only true church, now we have battling Herbert Armstrong archive sites.  One of them has come out swinging, damning all the others as liberal tools of Satan.

The heretical sites are

The HWA Library:



















The Biblical Truth site:


Now we have the ONLY TRUE COG archive site:





The HWA TV Archives claims it is the ONLY true archives on the Internet today that harkens back to the time before the liberals and Satan took over.  They cover everything prior to 1967.

"Booklets that BUILT the Work during the 1950s and up to about 1967, which were either "killed," or, like the U.S. in Prophecy booklet, greatly reduced and the LIFE cut out of it - during a conspiracy to abolish everything I had ever written and substitute new LIBERAL doctrines following the "STP" [Systematic Theology Project] - all those booklets are being brought back into print. The TRUTH of God, not a watered-down liberal and secular teaching, is once again going out IN POWER! "
During the years between 1967 and 1977, Satan the Devil was hard at work using Garner Ted Armstrong, and other liberal ministers to SUPPRESS, destroy, or replace Christ's true doctrines as they were taught by Christ's chosen apostle Herbert W Armstrong. It was because they DID NOT BELIEVE. They were essentially, NON-BELIEVERS! And do you realize that Satan works through NON-BELIEF?
Have you considered HOW Satan was effective? And have you considered how he got the job done?
And concerning our responsibility, when presenting the materials of God's apostle and God's Church: Should we promote materials that were published by Garner Ted and by other LIBERAL ministers that Satan has been using against God's true Church?
We've considered the materials published in the years between 1967 and 1977 for historical evidence, and proof of what happened, how Satan took the Church off track.
There are some very good articles found during those years, but what we are finding is that they always contained a liberal element that just spoiled it. The rottenness was evident.

The Archives crew thinks that it took the literal resurrection of Herbert Armstrong to clean the church up and set it all back on track.


And so we have asked ourselves, and have taken it to God in prayer and fasting, about whether or not we should promote material from GTA and other LIBERAL ministers, and it has been ASTOUNDING NO! 
Jesus Christ upon resurrecting Herbert W Armstrong from total heart failure in 1977. began throwing out the dross and those attached who wouldn't allow Christ to clean them up. He guided Herbert Armstrong to go back and update all of the books that Satan was trying to get rid of, and with it Christ added new revelation, and much more TRUTH was restored during this time. The Bible says "All things shall be restored" through the end time Elijah. 
So whatever confusion Satan had caused in the 1970's, through GTA and the LIBERAL ministers, was cleaned up, and Christ's understanding, mind and Christ's doctrines once again was in the forefront in God's true Church! It was placed back on the tracks! 
Now there is only one true archive site and has the ONLY truth!  All of the others are run by apostate liberal Satan loving false Christians.


THIS WEBSITE( wwcg-archives.com) IS THE ONLY WEBSITE THAT DIRECTS YOU TO CHRIST THROUGH HIS CHOSEN APOSTLE.  
Other websites, direct you to splinter groups, dissenters, groups that are in DISAGREEMENT with Christ and His chosen apostle. If you check, you will find this to be absolutely true. 
One website, has incorporated itself, and directs people to fellowship with them online. They promote Garner Ted Armstrong, and those liberal elements of the 1970's that took the Church of track. And they rob God of His tithes by collecting them from sincere people, although they are not ordained to collect such. They are not ministers. Now some others are ministers, but not of Christ. Christ is not blind to any of it brethren.
Just as the hundreds of splinter groups cant get along, now the internet sites are fighting over who has the true booklets and articles now.

The entire legacy of Herbert Armstrong has become one complete farce. From abusive tyrants like Meredith, Pack and Flurry, the self-appointed false prophets, Judaizers and liars like Thiel and Malm, to the pseudo-liberals in UCG. The Wienlands, the Flurry's and Pack are impotent little men who will never garner any large followings.  Meredith has proven to be an abusive tyrant and abject failure in everything he has touched.

Its a complete mess.

It will never be unified again.

No apostle or prophet is coming in to save it.

No two witnesses will arise from it.

It will never be great again.








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33 comments:

Stephen said...

"Other websites, direct you to splinter groups, dissenters, groups that are in DISAGREEMENT with Christ and His chosen apostle. If you check, you will find this to be absolutely true. "

I checked, and it isn't true.

No christ worth his salt would select a pedophile as his chosen apostle.

Ralph said...

Good grief, where and when will it end except for here:-

"Ecc_12:13 All has been heard; the end of the matter is: Fear God [revere and worship Him, (NOT ANY MAN or WOMAN) knowing that He is] and keep His (Yehovah's) commandments, for this is the whole of man [the full, original purpose of his creation, the object of God's providence, the root of character, the foundation of all happiness, the adjustment to all inharmonious circumstances and conditions under the sun] and the whole [duty] for every man." (AMP) Bolding inserts mine

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

The old WWCG was repressive, keeping its members in a childlike state. That God would let the physical church disintegrate is understandable. These archive sites are looking at the church through blinkers, acting as if the churches abusive cult, outer face is the core of the church, It is not. The core of the church was, and still is, members being robbed of their rights and adulthood. The 'restored truth' is useless, meaningless, gibberish if members are effectively robbed of their lives.

Redfox712 said...

I remember when I used to believe in Armstrongism that I had this hope that one day soon the COG would be restored to the former glory and prestige that it enjoyed under HWA.

I cannot help but wonder if some also share this hope.

I have since concluded that such a thing will never happen. Thinking that it will assumes that HWA was used by God in a way that no one else on Earth was used. But that cannot be true. His many false prophecies and immoral personal conduct prove that.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it interesting that the church imploded, just like the old Soviet commie empire. The two were very similar, both tyrannical and altruistic. And the Soviet empire fell on December 1991, about the same time that as the church splintering. This defies random probability. It seems that the churches ideological daddy was communism rather than biblical morality.

Byker Bob said...

If one of these sites were the "true" one, it would not be possible to tell. However, the leader of each probably tells all of his people that God led them to him.

This is what happens to people when, in an imperfect world, they believe that there is one "true" anything. It is a setup. Anything you could possibly find will be a mixture of truth and error. That's why attitude and fruits are ultimately more important than picking and joining the right club.

BB

Anonymous said...

Comments made by someone associated with "THIS WEBSITE" wrote the following:

"...THIS WEBSITE( wwcg-archives.com) IS THE ONLY WEBSITE THAT DIRECTS YOU TO CHRIST THROUGH HIS CHOSEN APOSTLE......Other websites, direct you to splinter groups, dissenters, groups that are in DISAGREEMENT with Christ and His chosen apostle. If you check, you will find this to be absolutely true..."

Why do so many people think that God the Father does not really exist, or that Jesus Christ is the end-all and the be-all that is? THIS WEBSITE is going to direct me to CHRIST? How so? Most still do not realize that we received some "milk" and lots of spiritual "junk food" prophecies from HWA! And THIS WEBSITE is not an exception.

If we are to be directed to CHRIST, don't we have to be DRAGGED? Did CHRIST tell us the following?

"No man can come to me, except THIS WEBSITE which hath sent me DRAW him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

No, Jesus Christ said this: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44, :65.

James Malm tells us that Jesus Christ is the god of the Old Testament, but he has never proved that at all. That is junk food. Does THIS WEBSITE also believe that, which HWA also taught? It's junk food. How do we know? Because the Bible tells me so:

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go."

It appears that the God of the Old Testament has a son and His name is Jesus.

That is only one example, and that verse alone should be milk as a minimum...maybe even strong meat, but James Malm and THIS WEBSITE personnel, driven by "another spirit," and believing "another gospel," have changed it into junk food by inventing "another Jesus."

For those of THIS WEBSITE and James Malm, and Rod Meredith and Doug Winnail, etc., God said to grow in grace and in knowledge of Jesus Christ...and stop trying to make Jesus Christ into something He wasn't....another Jesus! That's junk food!

On the other hand, if you were Satan, how would you do it? Exactly!

And time will tell....whether you will continue in your junk food or whether you will change, repent, and get rid of those theories that are false.

To be con't...

John

Anonymous said...

And continuing...

THIS WEBSITE also said: "...The Bible says "All things shall be restored" through the end time Elijah..."

Have you not read Jesus Christ's own words? His disciples finally "got the point," but some approximately 2,000 years later you of THIS WEBSITE do NOT "get the point." What was the point about that Elijah? You added the phrase "end time;" didn't you?

Matthew 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Elijah came! He did "come already, and they knew him not..." and neither do those of THIS WEBSITE know it.

It was John the Baptist! Can't you see what the disciples came to understand? It was John the Baptist! Go study the huge impact that he had during some 6 months all around where he lived! He "da man!" Those of THIS WEBSITE, like so many of those splinters, just don't believe it........

Again, if you were Satan, how would you do it? Exactly!

THIS WEBSITE will continue to do what Meredith, Kubik, Hulme, Franks, Winnail, Rogers, Flurry, Pack, Malm, Whineland, Suckling, continue to do to themSELVES...and that is to stay stagnant in some "holding pattern" eating junk food and desiring us to join them in doing the same thing. It's so lukewarm. Why not just spew out the junk food, but don't spew it out on us? That's change! That's a tough choice to make, isn't it? That would be some repentance! You love eating the food at that trough, but it's still junk food...and not very spiritually nourishing.

Do we need another example of junk food, that you all think is milk and/or strong meat?

Didn't God move on? He predicted laodiceans would exist. That's okay. They're still a part of God's Church; they just have a different job to do, different from that of previous congregations, eras. But if they don't exist, then wouldn't God the Father and His Son be liars? The One we know as The Father was the God of the Old Testament and Elijah was "da man" John the Baptist!

Besides, aren't we're supposed to "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints?" Jude 1:3

And not "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the splinter's...or to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto THIS WEBSITE!"......AND REMEMBER Jesus Christ's words regarding His Father:

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." Matthew 15:13

Well, until that is fulfilled, life goes on.......and time will tell...

John

James said...

Anonymous said...

Isn't it interesting that the church imploded, just like the old Soviet commie empire. The two were very similar, both tyrannical and altruistic. And the Soviet empire fell on December 1991, about the same time that as the church splintering. This defies random probability. It seems that the churches ideological daddy was communism rather than biblical morality.

July 4, 2016 at 1:06 AM
__________________________________________________________________

“The goal of “Communism” is identical to that of British Israel and they emanate from the same source and serve the same masters. Capitalism finances Communism and Russian Communism is state capitalism. Communism promises a perfect society and British Israel promises a paradise on earth. Are they the same?”

“The Union Jack”
-Published ca. 1970

http://hwarmstrong.com/british-israelism/bi-deceit.htm

Ralph said...

on July 4, 2016 at 12:56 AM
Redfox712 wrote:-

"I cannot help but wonder if some also share this hope."

I did, once. But following the Tkach dynasty's dismantling of the WWCG and after a relatively short period with another smaller group I came to the conclusion that HWA had fully exploited an idea whose time had come. After that, there was nothing left, except the truth.
"Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."


cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

Obviously the true website would be easy to ascertain, just count how many photos of HWA they have.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

If Jesus Christ resurrected Herbert W Armstrong from total heart failure in 1977 to put God's Church back on track, why did Jesus Christ do nothing when little Joey Tkach inherited the Church and its wealth, shrunk the Church, killed Ambassador University and changed all the major doctrines so it no longer resembled what it once was?

What was Christ's purpose in postponing the inevitable outcome? Why couldn't the "great falling away" happen in 1977 instead of the 1990s? What was God's purpose?

What was the purpose of the Church's witness and warning of the coming Great Tribulation in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s when many who received the warning are no longer alive today?

Richard

Connie Schmidt said...

Anonymous at 1:06 spoke of the fall of WCG and the Soviet Union

Indeed, they are not unrelated. Tyrannical communist governments cannot operate in an environment of free information. The personal computer and the ability for people to communicate with one another and to "research the history" breaks the bonds.

Banned, which at times can be uncomfortable, or a bit over the top, nonetheless, provides a resource and reference place for the clearance of information. It is a bit like "Radio Free Europe" was in its day!

Anonymous said...

I thought RCG had the biggest biblically based website in the world?

Anonymous said...

Richard, first Herbies 'heart failure' was a heart flutter. Salesman Herbie milked this for all it's worth by 'shading' the truth. Even in 1977, many new people were coming into the church, so more time was needed. The falling away has shakened people off the fence. The splintering has also loosened members chains, and in the case of 'independent Christians,' broken their chains. In the OT, God warned ancient Israel for generations before military defeat and enslavement. This is because a moral slide takes generations. Had the 1950s and 1960s generation repented, this generation would find it much easier to repent. The accumulative nature of sin means today's generation has passed the point of no return.

nck said...

Connie,

-wcg fell apart because of the fundamental changes in its foundational doctrines. (not information flow)
-wcg in the 1970's was part of the state department's official "moral" diplomacy in the effort to fight communism
-regarding your statement about 'RFE" There are scientific studies on Radio Monte Carlo and other stations broadcasting "American" culture . They prominently figure the World Tomorrow as a huge spender enabling these stations to function

nck

John Frybort said...

"Banned, which at times can be uncomfortable, or a bit over the top, nonetheless, provides a resource and reference place for the clearance of information. It is a bit like "Radio Free Europe" was in its day!"

Excellent comparison.

Having access to all of the archival writings of all of the writers over the years is very helpful. It is also helpful, if somewhat amusing, to read the "corrections" or amendments or explanations/clarifications to some of those writings.

Will an unbiased, reliable history of the various 20th century Churches of God (up until, say, 1986 or so) ever be published? Including the first several decades of the 20th century's precursor churches prior to HWA's hijacking of the movement?

John F
Indiana

Byker Bob said...

This collection of archive sites, once again, demonstrates that there are so many wide divergencies, that the Armstrong movement had to have been bogus from the start. Gamaliel, plain and simple.

Obviously, a movement evolves. It is amusing to watch people who do not believe in evolution attempt to deal with the evolution of their church. Apparently, they judge correctness by relative strictness, which is what one would expect of people who place primary emphasis on the Old Covenant.

Who even knows of these archive sites except for Armstrong nostalgia buffs? We have certainly realized that they are a great source of information which can be used to hold revisionists accountable, those who say that conditions and doctrines were never as bad as we portray them. But, they certainly do not constitute any sort of powerful message. They're more like a forgotten, musty old book lying in the basement of a library.

BB

Anonymous said...

Nck, I beg to differ. The change in fundamental church doctrines, is the effect. The cause was the moral rot in the church. Tkach brought the doctrines into harmony with church members immorality.

nck said...

12:22

Ok! I see where you are coming from.
Perhaps we can agree on that at least it was not like some "Chinese party congress" falling apart by "information flow." Perhaps some felt embarassed by what they had been thinking true, or inner decay as you call it. But it was not caused by external pressure of any kind.

The analogy I use is the Perestrojka caused by that other Russian reformer.
They wanted to change a few things but knowinly or unknowingly they removed some cornerstones causing the edifice to collapse.

I believe 95% presented on this blog untrue, since they assume some sort of inner evil in armstrongism, whereas I only perceive magnificent unprofessionalism.

I do not know where the line is crossed between evil and unprofessionalism, but that is all I see. (like this whole lcg meredith affair, I can see why adversaries would want to call it evil, but I would call it plain stupidity and unprofessional behavior)

nck

Connie Schmidt said...

NCK:

The internet was a big help in having people leave the WCG in 1995, whether out of the COG movement completely, or for the formation of a splinter group like UCG.

Anonymous said...

Considering this "harmonizing" ran off 5/6ths of its membership, it must have been a small percentage of immorality!

Anonymous said...

3.24 PM my understanding is that the combined major slivers amount to a half of the former 100,000 WWCG membership. The church lost a least a half of its members since Herbie died.

Herbert W. Weakwrist said...

Grow up Ralph, its Yoohoovuh . Learn it...Live it... Love It.
Now get with the program son.

Anonymous said...

I grew up in Romania under Communism Connie.
We got information with the same amount of spin that you get in the USA now. It is evident to us who lived under that.

Anonymous said...

Dont you recall Junior moaning about how there were 40,000 unaccounted for that were neither with GCI or the splinters?

Ralph said...

on July 4, 2016 at 12:22 PM
Anonymous wrote:-

"The cause was the moral rot in the church. Tkach brought the doctrines into harmony with church members immorality."

If such is the case then why did so many choose to follow the splinters? Unless, of course, by "moral rot in the church" you are referring to the ministry and not the members, but your wording doesn't suggest that.

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

on July 4, 2016 at 4:22 PM
Herbert W. Weakwrist wrote:-

"Grow up Ralph, its Yoohoovuh."

Wasn't he US President back in 1929-33?

also:-
"Now get with the program son."

What program is that? You sound like one of the ministry team from an old WWCG congregation as it was breaking up. The congregation I used to attend so long ago.
I thought I recognized your name.

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

Ralf, half of the members followed the splinters when Tkach changed the doctrines. The remainder stopped coming to church. So half the church fell away because of the moral rot. That includes both ministers and members. I suspect the moral rot was worse for the ministry, but I only had 5 different ministers, so I can't be conclusive. The remaining 'church' half seem to be struggling, based on the weak message in their publications. UCG is notorious for their flat articles. Likewise, if these people were converted, why are they staying with Psycho Rods church?

Ralph said...

to Anonymous of July 5, 2016 at 2:45 AM

You wrote "So half the church fell away because of the moral rot."

It could be because of my once described "thick filters" but I still don't get your point. Perhaps if you would define "moral rot" it might help.
From my perspective, if the members lacked in moral code why would they leave the 'transforming' old WWCG and follow the new splinters who claimed to adhere to HWA teachings. Are you really saying that the membership of the old WWCG was morally rotten, then how so? And, if such is the case then I strongly object to your words as I was part of that "membership" for many years.
I left because I considered the Tkach dismantling of Biblical doctrine be highly immoral.

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

how is it that you think your proclaimations of cog demise are any more legitimate than their own proclaimations...both of you are merely one breath from non existence, so why are you right and they are wrong?

and the great irony is that you are doing your part to keep them in the media; if you people wouldnt continually publish things about them, google searches may very well not even return much from a key word inquiry...

Anonymous said...

Ralf, 'moral rot' is me being polite, but since you have pressed the issue. The average church member was a bully, a thug, very discernible with the mental penalties such as a negative self image. The average member was heartless and exploitive. Your strong objection, or former membership does not change this reality. Oh, by this time when I was a church member, a daddy minister would be threatening me, telling me 'not to offend' members. This is what bullies members do. Real adults don't go to a daddy. I attended spokesman club for 5 years, and there was rarely a speech that magnified the ten commandments. It stood out like a sore thumb. You obviously did not arouse envy or a Cain Vs Abel attitude, as many did.
Neither would real adults would not be in a Rod or Dave church either, only bullies would.

Ralph said...

to Anonymous of July 7, 2016 at 10:14 AM

Thanks for your response.

I have come to the conclusion that the old WWCG in the US was an entirely different entity to that found, in my experience, in good old Aus. Every one that I ever met during various congregation assemblies was polite, kind, friendly and otherwise very supportive.
Maybe it had a lot to do with cultural differences. From what I have read on this blog I am so glad my experience of Armstrongism was in Australia and not the USA.

cheers
ralph.f