Tuesday, August 9, 2016

What Are Rod McNair's Qualifications To Judge Members?

The one thing that struck me about Elizabeth Scarborough's letter was her comment about the excuses Rod McNair and Rod Meredith used to disfellowship and mark them.  Talk about a bunch of petty reasons!

Rod McNair has no qualifications, no real leadership skills, no real theological training or any other skill necessary for leadership.  What "qualified him several years ago was nothing more than having a couple of "famous" relatives in the Church of God. Because he has no real skills he has turned into one of the most abusive and despised "ministers” in the church. He is right up there with Cal Culpepper.

The lack of leadership skills and a sound theological education has led him to make rather absurd accusations against the Scarborough's which are downright silly and trite.

It is hard to imagine a minister being so intrusive that they have to grill someone over a party that celebrated a trip to Greece.  Those pagan Grecians are still disrupting society centuries later, well at least in LCG. It's no like they were having a Saturday Night Live toga party.

The silver lining in all this is that after over 20 hours of depositions, we now know why Rod McNair and Rod Meredith decided to mark us, which is something we have struggled to understand for nearly 2 years now. Rod McNair testified, under oath, that we were marked for the following reasons: 1. we had a Greek-themed party in 2009 (after returning from a trip to Greece) that looked like a “toga party”

Next McNair gets all pissy over an Andrew Sisters song.  A song that HWA listened to and never complained about!  Leave it to a wet behind the ears and immature so-called minister to determine a 1945 song is satanic. That is essential what McNair believes.

2. In 2011 I sang the Andrew’s Sisters 1945 hit “Rum & Coca-Cola” at Spokesman Club ladies night and McNair believes the song promotes prostitution (they asked me to sing that night and pre-approved the song but I still got in trouble for it)
One of the dumbest and controlling things the church does is to try and control every aspect of the member lives when it comes to Bible inquiry.  A person must never read any book outside the pre-approved lectionary that the COG leaders deem worthy.  Those books and articles are all penned by church leaders who claim to posses some kind of inspired knowledge (which they do not have.) Reading the Book of Enoch is not a faith destroyer as many of the cult leaders assume.  While it has been essentially discounted by many, it still is of interest to others.  There is nothing earth shattering about a group of friends sitting around and discussing a book.
3. In 2014 I invited two couples, close friends (or so I thought at the time but apparently I was wrong) to my home for a bbq to show them unconditional love because they had been suspended from church and were feeling discouraged. They had been suspended for reading the Book of Enoch and having private Bible studies which we were NEVER a part of but we loved them and wanted to support them because they were very discouraged and upset. We ALL expressed concern over the behavior of HQ’s ministry that night but these couples were Rod McNair’s friends so they got off unscathed while “speaking negatively of ministry” and “causing church division” was added to McNair’s file against me when he found out about our conversations. 
McNair has to have known that Bob Thiel has denied over and over again that Patrick was NOT the source of the Apartian information.  McNair was so filled with vengeance that he had to resort to anything he could find in order to smear the Scarborough's.

The interesting thing below is that an LCG minister testified under oath that the comments about Apartian were true!
And then lastly, 4. They blamed Patrick for being the source of information posted on cogwriter.com about Mr. Apartian. Bob Thiel emailed LCG, called LCG and posted on his blog that we were NOT his source (we subsequently found out WHO the source actually was) but LCG continued to pin this accusation on Patrick because they literally had NOTHING else to justify marking him. One LCG minister even testified under oath that the information posted on cogwriter was TRUE and that Mr. Apartian had actually made those statements to a handful of people in his last year of life. So they marked Patrick for TRUE information that he didn’t give Thiel!

McNair sounds like a petulant spoiled brat that has to stamp his feet and have a hissy-fit in order to cover up his insecurities. Being mean and nasty does not make you a leader.

Even though LCG may be celebrating that they "won" the lawsuit, the fact of the matter is they lost!  Big time.  It may look good in paper, but communally they lost in the eyes of the membership. People now know how truly debased they are in their treatment of members.  Grace and love are not qualities they possess.  Why should they when everything they believe is based upon Hebrew laws instead of following Jesus.


Byker Bob said...

Bogus is as bogus does. In Armstrongism, the ends have always justified the means, and the only thing of real importance to them has always been the very arbitrary authority which they wield. Unfortunately, the dismissal of the lawsuit virtually ensures that this will continue to be inflicted on the brethren, with no remedies in sight.

And of course, apparently, they don't (gasp!) believe in trade!


whatmeworry said...

I have been out of any COG's for about 15 years and a little rusty, but what is so controversial about the book of Enoch?

Anonymous said...

I'm in LCG and I've been unhappy for about 3 years now. The environment in Charlotte is toxic. To say morale is low would be an understatement. I usually don't comment here but I can't stop myself today. I have watched Rod McNair bully,abuse, lie and scheme first hand and he just seems to get rewarded for it. He has hurt so many people that I love, including the Scarborough's.

A lot of us in Charlotte have wondered why the Scarborough's were kicked out because we never saw anything in them that would warrant such extreme measures. In fact, I always thought they were kind of kiss-ass upper echelon people. They were always having minister parties and seemed really churchy. But they were always nice. I knew them socially but never had any deep conversations with them or anything.

Now that I'm reading Rod McNair's explanation of why they were marked, I'm even more shocked and disgusted.

Let me tell you, I was at the toga party and there were LCG ministers there. Nothing even remotely questionable happened. It was very low key.

I was also at the Ladies Night Spokesman's Club dinner when Elizabeth sang. She sang with Catherine Ogwyn (wife of Charles Ogwyn) and Dawn Rothenbacker. Those girls did a fabulous job. They sang a few songs. They had clearly worked hard on the set because they sang in harmony, made costumes and had choreography. My husband and I thought they did a wonderful job. Again, nothing was inappropriate. Also, both of the other girls, Dawn and Catherine are still in church (they were at the toga party too). So why did nothing happen to them? It doesn't seem McNair's "justice" is even or fair. He obviously had a vendetta against Elizabeth.

IDK about the BBQ details but I know that the two Book of Enoch couples were Jennifer and Reynaldo Colon and Dawn and Pete Rothenbacker. Whatever happened at that bbq they got off scott free. McNair just skewered the Scarborough's. Same for the Bob Thiel info.

This is the exact kind of unfair behavior that I am so sick of. It is discouraging. It makes it hard to listen to them give sermons when you see them act like this. I sit in the audience and pretend to listen while I block them out and do my own Bible study. I don't know how much more I can take. There is no one I can talk to because there are spies everywhere so I don't trust anyone.

Ok, I'm rambling. I will probably regret posting this but I saw this story and my anger compelled me to say something. Even if I'm too cowardly to put my name on this post. One day, I pray, I will have the courage to walk away from this ungodly organization. If you are in LCG and you are reading this, ask yourself, would leaders in God's real church act like this? Of course they wouldn't. But I hear it's just as bad in United and COGWA so what are we supposed to do? I feel so torn up about it. Will I have to explain to Good why I stayed when I knew it was rotten?

Anonymous said...

Rod McNair is evil. I avoid him at all costs.

I am consoled by the fact that on Judgement Day he will be held accountable for all his evil actions.

Things in Charlotte were so much better before he and Bob League came to town.

Anonymous said...

What McNair isn't telling you is that there was a MINISTER at that toga party, yet that minister hasn't been punished at all. What McNair isn't telling you is that a MINISTER'S WIFE performed one of the songs that were found so objectionable, yet neither that wife nor the minister have been punished. The minister and his wife are friends of McNair and are exempt from punishment. One standard for the minister, another standard for people like the Scarboroughs.

Anonymous said...

A rumor going around in Charlotte is that Bill Bowmer was approached by Meredith and was told that he would be rewarded if he joined in the attack on John Robinson, but Bowmer refused to do so, recognized that McNair and his spies were lying (or at least greatly exaggerating) about Robinson, and resigned rather than affirm McNair's lies. Of course, there's no way to prove this, as Bowmer is staying quiet and McNair isn't going to admit that he or his spies were lying.

Miller Jones said...

You are not following the standards of the book you profess to believe in when you remain a part of such an organization. That book (The Bible) clearly delineates the fruits (evidence) of the Holy Spirit. If the habitual conduct/behavior of the leadership does not produce this evidence, THEN THEY DO NOT HAVE GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT! If they do not have God's Holy Spirit, THEN THEY ARE NOT GOD'S MINISTERS! If they are not God's ministers, THEN THE ORGANIZATION WHICH THEY LEAD CAN'T BE GOD'S CHURCH!
Yes, it is hard to leave "friends" and loved ones behind (many of the folks who comment here have done just that); but you're not responsible for the behavior of others (if they refuse to talk/visit with you). Please, for the sake of your own sanity (sound mind), leave the ACOGs behind! If you truly love God, you can find God outside of those organizations. There is LIFE after Armstrongism (and it's much more satisfying than it ever was on the inside). May God help you to separate yourselves from this powerful delusion that has its origins in something other than the mind of God.

Homer said...

Anon at 5:37 AM – wrote a couple of things worth commenting on.

“But I hear it's just as bad in United and COGWA so what are we supposed to do?”
Also, “Will I have to explain to Good why I stayed when I knew it was rotten?

My suggestion is; recognize there is no organizational “church” mentioned in the Bible. All “churches” are organized in order to become a money grabbing machine and have control over the members. They may not have started that way, but the $$$$ are too lucrative for them not to eventually become just that. The word ecclesia simply means a group of people brought together with a common understanding. It has nothing to do with authority from the top down. The same word “ecclesia” is used 3 times in Acts 19:32-41 and it isn’t translated as “church”. The word "church" is incorrectly used 115 times for the Greek word ecclesia. We can thank King James for the use of the word “church” rather than assembly. Check other translations for the use of the words group, assembly, them, community, and congregation. Yes, other translations do use the word “church” in some cases because of the mindset that there must be an organizational “church” to be valid in the mind of God.

I found it interesting Anon at 5:37 AM used the word “Good” rather than “God”. It is also realized this was most likely a double strike of the letter “o”. I have done that several times. However, it may very well be that the word “God” is derived from the word “good.” Could this be something to think about just as maybe the word “devil” is simply the word “evil” with a “d” added. Is this too simplistic a possibilty to consider?

As for me I felt very close to the friendships developed during my many years with WCG and UCG, but after realizing the above and many other principles disagreed with, I continued attending for the fellowship for 10 years and listened more carefully about what was taught. After moving to another area, I no longer attend any “church” for many, many reasons other than the ones stated above.

Anonymous said...

I'm consoled by the fact that these ministers will soon find themselves in the tribulation. Vengeance is so sweet to the soul. I feel warm all over, thinking about it.

Anonymous said...

7.33AM There's more to it. People are often trapped in abusive relationships. For some, a church, even a abusive one, is the only way that they can spiritually survive. They are not strong enough to survive as independents. That's the ugly truth.

Connie Schmidt said...

There is such a thing as Gods Law and standards of behavior.

The problem with legalists, whether they be Malm, or Meredith/McNair is that they are not happy with the idea of self policing and accountability of ones self to God, or that God has mercy, patience and long suffering with us as we struggle on the journey.
God is also a bringer of justice, but in his own time and way.

No, what legalists want is JUSTICE and justice NOW. Furthermore , they LOVE being the ones to execute that justice, being the personal judger of the justice, and putting out the punishment. They love judging and "discovering" ever little flaw in everyone else besides themselves. They love the power of being the judge, jury and executioner.

They are like rogue cops who love to rough up people and bully.


We need to insist that all COG ministers must wear body cameras and record all interactions with members and those videos have the right to be published online by any members involved!

nck said...

Even if enochs book is genuine it contains proof and the key to the editing out of the bible of the original hebrew religion by the jerusalem temple priests. It explains why josuah bows down for the host of the lord able to declare holy the ground he stands on. This person is a man but because of the editing of the jews people had to make him extra terrrstrial but he is probably deborahs father. Nck

Anonymous said...

Dressing like Jesus did, gets you booted out of the LCG.

Is it possible that "ministers" like Meredith, McNair, League and Culpepper are in lockstep with wacky American Christian preachers who seem to believe that Jesus wore Brooks Brothers suits, spoke American English, was an NRA member, was a free market capitalist opposed to government regulations, and wished His hair was as pretty as Joel Osteen's?

Now, THAT'S what Saviors do: They totally play into people's psychological needs.
Herbie and so many others have achieved success at it.

Anonymous said...

Connie, if you were raped, you too would want JUSTICE and justice NOW.

Anonymous said...

"the jews people had to make him extra terrrstrial but he is probably deborahs father."

Do tell!

Anonymous said...

Only similar in English language and lettering, Homer.

Anonymous said...

Maybe you should read the rest of her paragraph carefully before bringing out a wildly unconsidered comparison like that. To be a forcible rapist is no "little flaw", Anon 8:39

Black Ops Mikey said...

These ACoG ministers need to be introduced to the Pillory.

I think I may have some lettuce which has been in the fridge too long.

Others can contribute as they are able.

Well, hey. It's marginally better than the stoning they deserve.

Anonymous said...

Every time I look at McNair as he preaches i think this man needs to come clean and come out of the closet, find a man and live an authentic life instead of a lie. That might get rid of all of his pent up frustrations.

Anonymous said...

9.35AM I did read the rest of her paragraph. And re read the whole post. My point is that everyone wants speedy justice if the victim of a great crime.

Anonymous said...

"come out of the closet, find a man and live an authentic life instead of a lie." LOL! I have thought the same thing over the years. Something is not right with the guy.

nck said...

8.45 am
The commander of the host of the lord is a man. Angels are referred to differently. This was an army commander able to declare soil holy and josuah needed to bow for this holy man. God did not send an army of angels to help invade the promised land. This was the most prominent of original tribes coming to aid josuah. Deborah was a prophetess from that same tribe of hebrews overseeing the holy place in petra. The temple jews wanted to edit out that story leaving a ridiculous story line for josuah. That is the gap the book of enoch fills. It is the true story of petra and the hebrew tribe whose leader had more authority than aaron and josuah. Nck

Anonymous said...

Nck, in every example I can think of in the bible, people were rebuked for bowing to a man or angel.

Anonymous said...

People of COG, when are you going to wake up! Jesus came not only to pay the penalty of sin, but to set us free from man-made religion.
There is to be no one between us and Jesus, He is our judge and will judge us according to our obedience to God’s instruction and our doing what he (Jesus) said. He will not judge you by what some moron who claims to be God’s chosen said. You will have to answer to what you do.
The Pharisees claimed the authority to add to and subtract from the Torah, which Moses said no one was to do. Jesus constantly broke their rules and regulations, from his first miracle to the day they had him killed. Jesus told his followers they were to do what Moses said and not what the religious leaders of his day said (Hebrew Matthew 23:3 “All therefore whatsoever he (Moses) bid you observe, that observe and do.; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. Read Matthew 23 and see how Jesus felt about the religious dictators of his day.
This applies to all the man-made religions today. Jesus is your covering, not any man.

Do not fear any religious leaders, either Pharisee or COG ministers, no matter what they say.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Thiel, Meredith, McNair, Malm, Pack, all claim to follow God, but can't get along with each other. All somehow think whatever their individual made up belief on dress codes, restaurants, toga parties, permitted books, the European Union just happen to be what God believes. No it is what they believe, God had little if nothing to do with it.

Anonymous said...

1:06, that is true in several instances. The commander Nck cites is one of them... IIRC there are at least two more passages where the common "Dont do that!" does not occur.

Anonymous said...

Rod Meredith has some strange ideas about sexuality. Anyone who listens to Meredith talking about his childhood love "Jimmy" can't help but pick up on the homoerotic overtones of how he and Jimmy "rolled around in the grass wrestling like two little bear cubs."

In fact, Rod often cites the loss of his beloved Jimmy as the early crisis that got him wondering about God. "Why did God let Jimmy die?"

Rod went on to write "The Plain Truth About Queer Men". In Rod's world, wearing a pink shirt made a man effeminate. What's hilarious about this is that LCR members today have noticed how often Lil' Jimmy Meredith (named after Rod's childhood love?) is seen wearing pink shirts or ties. When he does this, is he insulting his father, or just expressing his effeminate side?

Rod hates homosexuals but started Global with the help of a man Imperial School students knew as a homosexual pedophile. Rod hates homosexuals but has kept several strangely effeminate and never-married men as top aides. Is it that Rod feels more masculine by comparison when he is around these more effeminate men? Or is it that Rod enjoys the effeminate company of closeted homosexuals?

Please give Rod McNair credit for having what appears to be a far more normal and balanced family than Rod Meredith. Rod may be a very stupid and very sheltered ministurd, but he is one of the better masculine role models among LCR ministurds.

Anonymous said...

My family was in a similar situation as the Scarborough's, where we found ourselves at odds with the ministry in another splinter group. Time does not permit me to give all the details surrounding our situation, but I can assure you, I could write a book on it if I wanted to. These ministers we dealt with, were hell bent on dividing family and friends, while we remained quiet. Sermon after sermon was given, letter after letter was written about us. We said nothing to no one, and left. I lost many good friends because they refused to find out both sides of the story. It was easier to just severe decades of friendship I guess. Like you, it caused us lots of anguish. 7 years later, I still think about. I dont think you ever get over it (kind of like a death), but you move on. All I can stress is, dont throw out what you believe to be true and correct regarding God, and the Christian way of life we are called to. These ministers today, are doing nothing more than fullfilling prophecy (jeremiah 23 and others), so we should not be amazed at their behavior as they scatter and desomate Gods children. In due time, we will all be gathered back together into one fold, and these men that are charged with a task and abused the roll, will have to give an answer.

Anonymous said...

By his looks, they ought to rename him Frod McHair.


Anonymous said...

I hear it's just as bad in United and COGWA

Don't you realize you're a victim of Rod Meredith propaganda? He's been pounding that idea into your head for years. Why do you think he regularly criticizes the other churches? Because he's right? NO! Because he knows that if he can convince you how bad UCG or COGWA are, that you'll stay with LCG regardless of what he does, which is exactly what is happening. Like any good propagandist, he tells you what you want to hear: "We are the best" "The rest are Laodicean" "They're just a social group" "There's nothing wrong with youth activities, but we're serious" "We have the government of God" "We're more closely adhering to the teachings of Herbert Armstrong than anyone" "We're the only ones doing a real work".

After I left LCG, it took 7 months for my head to clear of all of this, NONE OF WHICH IS TRUE. Not only is there COG life outside of LCG, there is a better COG life outside of LCG.

LCG Expositor

Anonymous said...

LCG Expositor

I was in LCG for 12 years before I gathered the courage to leave. It was hard walking away from those that I thought were friends. Once I left, 99% of them didn't want to be friends any more which was really hard at first.

Like you, I fell for all the LCG propaganda mentioned in your post. Boy! you were spot on in your quotes

I remember being so surprised when I learned that the people outside LCG were kinder and the sermons were a thousand times better. It was like regaining my first love. Years in LCG under their abusive leadership with all those monotonous government sermons (LCG sermons are painful) had really left me feeling discouraged.

I'm now in another COG and I feel spiritually nourished and at peace. I actually look forward to the Sabbath instead of dreading having to sit through another RCM sermon and worrying about what I say to whom in case one of Rod McNair's spies hears me and turns me in.

Anonymous said...

People in LCG seriously get in trouble for toga parties and singing songs from the 1940's? Is this for real?

And they tell you what books you can and can not read?

And you aren't allowed t study the Bible privately?

What kind of church tells you NOT to study the Bible???

Anonymous said...

< i > Even though LCG may be celebrating that they "won" the lawsuit, the fact of the matter is they lost! Big time. It may look good in paper, but communally they lost in the eyes of the membership. < i >

I'm quite confident that 90-95% of LCGs membership has no idea that a lawsuit was ever filed against the church. And I attend with LCG. The lawsuit was never discussed or even acknowledged in public by the LCG leadership. If any "celebrating" is taking place, it's not with the general membership...because they don't know about the lawsuit. And I'm quiet certain that the general membership, even if they new about it, would fully support the leadership as well as the "win". People in LCG aren't naive and as stupid as you believe they are. They are mature Christian's who are focused on the mission of reaching the entire world with the Good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ while we have the time, opportunity and resources to do so. The great majority firmly trust these Godly (yet imperfect) men to do what is right, and they have not failed us yet. And I highly doubt that they will fail IF they stay focused on God and His commandments and the big picture of God's plan that He is working out here below for each and every one of us. The positive Godly fruits of this Work are evident in the eyes of the general membership.