Saturday, September 3, 2016

The Accuser of the Crazy Self-Appointed Ministers

Today started of with one of the most hilarious posts that Bob Thiel has posted in a long time.  The Almost Arrested Elisha Elijah Joshua Bob had an epic millennial melt down this morning.  His delicate doubly-blessed sensibilities were apparently severely tweaked by a post on this blog.  

The post that sent God's end-time, self-appointed prophet over the edge was:

Hear No Evil, See No Evil: 

Why does the ministry turn their back on abuse in the church?

Gary Leonard, the webmaster at the Banned By HWA site (an anti-Church of God website), seems to relish in posting false accusations and innuendoes against me and others.
Why do I think that?
Well, in my personal case, for some odd reason he likes to lump me in with others he apparently detests and then asserts that I have the same flaws he claims others have.  For example, here is something he posted yesterday:
The question that really needs to be asked is why do the leaders in various Churches of God keep silent as they watch Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack, Rod Meredith and others abuse their members.  Why do none of them speak out?
Flurry, Pack, Thiel, Malm, Meredith and many others are NOT their brothers.  These men are not brothers in the faith. They sit there and do nothing as one horrendous abuse after another is dished out upon COG people.   How many more need to die from suicide, die from lack of medical care, have their families ripped apart and marriages destroyed?
While I am not aware of all the details of the others listed above regarding all the alleged abuse, I would like to comment about myself (But as far as various positions and actions by the others listed above, readers can read the following articles Teachings Unique to the Philadelphia Church of GodWhy Not the Restored Church of God?Error-Ridden James Malm Not Doing an Elijah WorkRoderick C. Meredith’s Accusatory Letter to Bob Thiel, and What About the Living Church of God? Are there Doctrinal Differences with the ContinuingChurch of God?
In the Continuing Church of God (CCOG) I have repeatedly worked to NOT rip families apart, but to strive to keep them and marriages together (though not all who are married wish to listen). None I am aware of in CCOG have died from suicide, though that happens in and out of COGs.  And although I personally strive to avoid mainstream ‘medical care’ for myself, I have never taught members to not seek it if they wish. And I do care for the brethren (and pray for them daily). 
So Thiel claims he has makes an effort to never break families apart.  Well good for him.  The problem remains, which was the point of the entire original post was WHY do the ministers of the various COG's sit back and say NOTHING and DO NOTHING when they see the horrible abuses going on in the Philadelphia Church of God, the Restored Church of God, the Living Church of God and elsewhere.  Unnecessary deaths due to medical prohibitions, suicides due to aberrant teachings of sick ministers/evangelists, pedophile ministers who are mollycoddled by the big boys.

While Thiel may not do these things, the fact that he self-appointed himself as a splinter cult leader after a bitter row with his idol Rod Meredith makes him just as culpable of spiritual abuse as those who physically, and mentally abuse their members.

God no more appointed Bob Thiel as an end-time prophet/church leader, through the blessing of Gaylyn Bonjour during a simple prayer, than Dave Pack was personally educated at the feet of Herbert Armstrong.   Just because Thiel and a disturbed woman in the Southern Hemisphere had some nightmares, which they assume came from their god, it no more makes Thiel a prophet than the dream of my cat being made Supreme Leader of the Planet Argon I might have had several months ago.

The false prophet then writes:
Gary Leonard is an accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10), and often a bearer of false witness (Exodus 20:16).
Accuser of the brethren?  If anything I would say accuser of the corrupt, self-appointed, lying  ministry that DO NOT represent God in any manner whatsoever.  Ministers who teach aberrant heretical doctrines that enslave their members and actually work to turn them away from the grace and mercy of the Jesus, that most inconvenient dude they claim to follow, yet know nothing about.

From taking tithe money from struggling members for their own benefit or to use it to publish theological mishmashes of heretical doctrines.

Its the brethren that suffer and pay the consequences of these lying prophets.  For a church that claims to be restored first century Christianity, that has made a cottage industry out of mocking Christianity and its various divisions, it has turned the lives of hundreds of thousands of members upside down over the last eight decades.

Bob Thiel is no more a prophet or agent of God than Gerald Flurry is.  I can say that in confidence and with no fear of pissing off the god they claim to follow.

It's not the brethren who are accused.  It is the snakes in the grass that occupy self-appointed church positions that lead 3.8 million visitors to come here to find out about and comment on how they are abused.  Of course self-appointed prophets claim those people have bad attitudes and everyone should ignore them.  We have seen how well that has worked over the last 20 years as tens of thousands have left the COG.

Thiel is like Flurry, Pack, Malm and Meredith.  They all have an obsession with having religious status in the church.  They want to be seen as the revealers of truth and store houses of exclusive knowledge.  Every single one of them are self-appointed, whether they like it or not.

Thiel is an addict.  A religious addict, which is just as destructive to the soul as alcohol, sex and drugs.

Religious AddictionAnything that can alter our mood can become addictive. Religious behaviors can certainly alter our mood. Is that a good thing? Of course! Just like sex and food and work can alter our mood in positive ways, religious behaviors can also alter our moods in positive ways. But can religious behaviors also become a problem—become addictive? Absolutely. It may be easier to imagine what religious addiction looks like if you think about extreme examples such as religious suicide cults or religiously motivated extreme self-deprivations or self-injury. Our experience, however, suggests that religious addiction is much more common than you would conclude from looking only at the extreme cases. A wide variety of religious behaviors have the potential for mood alteration and therefore the possibility of becoming addictive. Evangelism, worship, personal spiritual disciplines, church attendance, service, and many other behaviors that are important and praiseworthy in a general sense can be subverted by the addictive process into very harmful and destructive parts of our lives. This is an important point. Just because prayer is good does not mean that addictive prayer is good. Just because worship is good does not mean that addictive worship is good. Just because evangelism is good does not mean that addictive evangelism is good. The addictive process can destroy the most precious of God’s gifts to us. Except perhaps as loose rhetoric, even getting “addicted to Jesus” is not the solution to our problems with addiction. Addiction to Jesus is just another addiction. God’s desire for us is not that we find the “right” addiction—Jesus. God’s desire is that we find a way to live without being addicted at all. Sobriety is the solution, not being in an addictive relationship to God. The addictive cycle in religious addiction follows roughly the same stages found in other addictions. The process begins with preoccupation. We alter our mood up by thinking about, focusing on, obsessing about our next religious experience, the next evangelism opportunity, the next worship service, the next retreat or whatever. This preoccupation, while it may alter our mood up may also distract us from important parts of life. In most but not all cases, religious addiction also involves a major element of ritualization. Our pre–acting-out behaviors can become elaborate in religious addiction. We may repetitively recite memorized prayers or biblical texts, we may engage in what seems to others to be very Godly or pious behaviors. Eventually our preoccupation and rituals lead to some kind of religious acting out. As we have already emphasized, the specific behaviors that are part of the acting-out stage can vary. Evangelism addicts may experience an enormous rush when approaching a stranger with a presentation of some kind, and with even more of a rush if the stranger responds positively. Worship addicts may experience profound mood alteration when the “Spirit descends.” But all addicts eventually find that their addictions lead to a stage in which their mood is altered down. In some cases, questions or doubts may trouble us or even plague us. We may become obsessed with whether or not we have done well enough. Shouldn’t we try harder and do more to stay out of trouble with God? We may leave church on Sunday to face the next week determined to live the Christian life, only to return the next week and hear once again that it wasn’t good enough. And for many, even if the reminder doesn’t come this week at church, it comes readily from the echoes in our hearts and minds of past religious training. Addictive religion never leads to soul rest. It always leads to trying, trying harder and trying our hardest. It always leaves us tired, frustrated and depressed. Just like addiction to alcohol and drugs, the acting-out mood alters up, while the entire cycle mood alters down.   When Religion Goes Bad: Spiritual Abuse

Bob Thiel needs to set the right example and be the first Church of God leader to seek counseling with a licensed therapist  for the mental issues that lead him to think the is called out, set apart, and God's personal hand-picked representative on earth.   I would suggest that Bob check out some licensed Christian therapists in Arroyo Grande that can help him work through his addiction to self-made religion.   Christian therapists would at least have some communal understanding when it comes to religion.

Am I an accuser of the brethren? No! Accuser of lying, deceitful, abusive ministers?  Yes!

You can read his entire post here.


Anonymous said...

Is not Boob Thiel that crazy, self-appointed, false prophet who tried to break up the barely Living Crutch of Rod and get people to listen to prophecies that demons gave to pagans, and that the bitter Boob then mangled some more to produce yet another book that the world would be better off without?

The Continuing Church of Fraud under bitter Boob tries to tell people that dirty, lying demons are a good, acceptable, knowledgeable source of true prophetic understanding through their servants the pagans. Bitter Boob takes the demon-inspired pagan poop, puts it through his own mangler mind, and suddenly out pops yet another book too many. Pagan Catholic Bitter Boob might just be in need of a good exorcism.

Remember that the Worldwide Church of God under Herbert W. Armstrong tried to be very vigilant about not letting the Devil get a foot in the door. Looking to demons and pagans for truth would have been unthinkable.

Anonymous said...

Well, Dr Bob, since you see it so important to follow this particular blog to find out what the rest of the world thinks of you and your irreparably crooked bookcases, here goes- They're all gonna laugh at you!!!


Sane Con said...

Bob Thiel is a horse anus. He is not effective listener. He picks and chooses what he likes to hear and makes a conclusion and this what makes him so unlikable.

ilija said...

We do not need the prophet this days. Everything is all ready told what will happen and we must wait, because we are living in End Time

Anonymous said...

Dr. Thiel has indulged in such a cliche. "I believe in and embrace all of the graceless doctrines and depressing false prophecies that have been demonstrated to produce such decidedly unChristian behavior, but please don't lump me in with the rest of them, because somehow I've ended up being an exception. I alone am the real deal!"

Charlie Speck said...

This blog is getting to be more pathetic as time goes. Little children name calling instead of simply using a persons real name when referring to them, and then we watch the other children play monkey see monkey do as they repeat the same childish names. Bob Thiel has it right this time but obviously the blog owner can't handle the truth and had to make another rant against Bob Thiel. Then we have our usual Dennis the Athiest posts with his not very convincing arguments at hat go on and on and on, actually it seems this blog is becoming a place for Athiests to come where they can spew their Christian hate. Anyway, that's it for me, I'm out of here, far to negative and full of hate.

2 Samuel said...

If Bob Thiel has been "anointed" as a "prophet" by asking a minister to "anoint" him because he was sick, and this is what has given him a "double-portion" of the "holy spirit," then I must have at least 30 portions of the "holy spirit." I lost count of how many times I was "anointed" because I was sick. I guess I missed my calling as a superfantabulous prophet with 30 portions of the holy spirit, and insignificant splinter cult leader.

Anonymous said...

ACOG ministers often accuse themselves or each other, sometimes without even realizing what they are doing. Watch just the first two minutes of the latest LCG online sermon, given by Mr. James Meredith, and you'll see how self-unaware they are and how utterly lacking in Christian priority.

Love, Fear and Serve God .

Jim claims to respect his father, and to be showing his father respect. So we assume he means it as a compliment when he tells the whole world that the three things his father values the most are: The Wall Street Journal, Barron's, and wine.

Jim knows his father better than most other people do. So we should probably believe him. Jim wouldn't think of giving his father a good book (Christian or secular), or a beautiful piece of music, or a gift made in his name a needy widow. And a gift related to the Work or their Christian commitment? Of course not! It's a 100% carnal perspective, coming from Jim, and if we take him at his word that's how his father sees things, too.

Let's face it. LCG is a family business, and not a particularly spiritual one at that. But at least Jim isn't self-appointed; his daddy ordained him and made him a bigwig. It's Rod who is the self-made man, who left his ministerial credentials behind in Pasadena and declared himself the MFWIC of his new cult.

James said...

Bob is akin to Dr. Smith on Lost in Space. A bumbling fool who thinks he is smarter than the rest and who's only friend is a robot.
At the beginning of the series he played a saboteur hell bent on destroying the Jupiter 2 and the family that consisted of the crew. He is arrogant, pompous, and insulting. Without a thought for helping others, he goes forth ignorant of the situations surrounding him, creating one disaster after another. Others have to come to his rescue and fix his messes.


Anonymous said...

Why Charlie Speck, how could you say such horrible things on the internet? Don't you realize that the only intelligent course in life is to become an atheist, to realize that God is simply a literary character, and to hate him if he actually existed? That is the entire secret of the universe, my man!

Black Ops Mikey said...

Dr. Robert Thiel has been the accuser of the brethren -- the Church of God Seventh Day -- with many negative articles about CoG7D and I publicly called him out on that.

If he wants to play 'the accuser card', then he himself must assume the mantle and be branded a tool of Satan.

Thiel, repent or else!

In the meantime, shut up and take your lashes.

Anonymous said...

Smarten up, Bob Thiel!

Only FALSE PROPHETS get their messages from demons and pagans.

Anonymous said...

"Bob is akin to Dr. Smith on Lost in Space. A bumbling fool who thinks he is smarter than the rest and who's only friend is a robot."

And he wasn't too friendly toward that robot either... Great comparison!

The good Dr also reminds me a little of Mr Magoo as inspired by Jim Backus.


Anonymous said...

c'mon Bob...surely you know that responding to anything here is basically casting pearls before swine....

there is nothing you can do to change their minds about anything....

Anonymous said...

As a non American can someone tell me what Barron's is ? Great comment by the way.

Anonymous said...

Bob Thiel has a small Mickey mouse church, so I am at a loss to understand why he gets so much attention on this site. I assume there is something 'beneath the waterline' that no one wants to openly acknowledge.

Cheers TradingGuy

Anonymous said...

One of the most prominent character traits on display here at this website - whether in current COG members as well as those who consider themselves ex-COGer's - is the constant need to routinely cut others to pieces verbally.

There are folks here who just can't seem to say anything positive - and my guess is that many of them still consider themselves Christian in one way or another. Of course, a number don't claim to be anymore.

But all these folks still share one thing in common aside from their mutual background in Armstrongism, and that is their non-stop habit of sarcastic accusation and criticism of others.

Regular posters love to comment upon how the self-appointed leaders of the many splinter groups the old WCG has crumbled into these days are always at odds with each other, and yet such posters indulge in identical behavior themselves, and often with a sense of glee.

Talk about misery loving company.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

As a non American can someone tell me what Barron's is ?

Barron's is a weekly newspaper, published by Dow Jones & Co, which reports on financial news and market developments.

Why wouldn't Rod Meredith be interested in this? After all, Jesus told us in Matthew 6:21, "Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Unfortunately, Rod probably isn't considering James 5:3 when he watches his gold investments: "Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days." Oops!

RSK said...

Beneath the waterline? Bob's just an easy target due to his blatant vanity and the sheer volume of his output on the internet. Or in other words, if you have a COG background and you're in the mood to be amused, Bob's at-least-daily website content will usually deliver the chuckles.

But in the case of Bob's commentary detailed in this post, that was him having ruffled feathers over being lumped in the same group with Flurry, Pack, Meredith, et cetera.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 12:22 PM said...

“There are folks here who just can't seem to say anything positive....”

“But all these folks still share one thing in common aside from their mutual background in Armstrongism, and that is their non-stop habit of sarcastic accusation and criticism of others.”

“Talk about misery loving company.”

Tragically, and unfortunately, the so-called COG scene today is overrun with the sort of vicious and malicious FALSE prophets that Jesus warned in Matthew 7:15-20 to watch out for (such as Gerald Flurry, David Pack, Ronald Weinland, and Robert Thiel, to name several of the guilty ones--and they are very guilty!). There is nothing positive to say about FALSE prophets other than that they are positively FALSE. Jesus said that a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

If you do not appreciate the helpful warnings of concerned people, and are not grateful for them, then feel free to try joining any of the imposter cults of any of the FALSE prophets and see how that works out for you. After you have kept company for a while with the miserable FALSE prophets and have gained some practical experience regarding what they are really like, and after your own wrong attitude has (hopefully) improved, then remember to come back here and share some worthwhile facts instead of just worthless, self-righteous, fluff talk.

Hopefully, you will stop writing recklessly in defence of FALSE prophets, stop telling people not to warn others about FALSE prophets, and stop trying to encourage people to follow FALSE prophets to their own harm.

Sane Con said...

Well said Anon 5:42. One should not censor themselves to comfort another's ignorance.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

12.22 both John the Baptist and Christ verbally cut the Pharisees 'to pieces' themselves. Whilst a member, I could barely express a opinion without being verbally attacked with accusations similar to your own. The message was, don't pass moral judgment. So the 'solution' to gross mistreatment of members was that it's a crime to perceive the evil in front of you.
You conveniently left out that church leaders give themselves the right to verbally tear down church members, so that they can have power and superiority over these people. So much for 'don't murder' and not lording it over others. This was commonly expressed as 'ministers want to be masters rather than counsellors.' What does it say about you, that you come to these ministers defence?

Cheers TradingGuy

Anonymous said...

Why does David Pack, who has robbed his congregation blind, leaving many destitute, arouse less emotion than Bob?

Restaurant reviewers spend very little time drinking gutter water and eating out of dumpsters, and even less time telling their readers not to do that. If you're looking for a good meal, those are self-evidently bad choices.

If you're looking for Jesus, Pack is a self-evidently bad choice. More recently, even if you were looking for Armstrongism, Pack has become a self-evidently bad choice. If you can't see this for yourself, you are probably beyond help.

It's not that Pack doesn't horrify most of us here. His extreme demands have ruined far more bank accounts than Thiel will likely ever come close to reaching unless the Aimless Amos, too, goes off the deepest of deep ends. But that's what makes Thiel even more dangerous in his own way. Until you catch on to him, you might be bamboozled by the sheer volume of his deluge of Armstrong-flavored crazy.

He was actually more dangerous before he started making his videos. In print he could pass for a kind of cross between Gene Hogberg and Herman Hoeh, if you were into that sort of thing. On video, he's not much better than that crazy guy who combines UFOs and Scientology with Armstrongism.

I do think that one reason people here pick on him so much is that David Pack by all accounts doesn't read what is posted here. At most, an RCG COE member may read here so as to summarize for his master what's going on. Thiel, however, is a small operator and really poor delegator, such that he reads every word on this blog (Hi, Bob!) and is thin-skinned enough that he cannot stop himself from responding. He's far too easy to get a reaction out of. If he could stand to ignore what people were "improperly" writing about him, I suspect people would write about him far less often.

Anonymous said...

I am not 3:43 PM but I would like to point out to TradingGuy that David Pack does not "arouse less emotion than Bob" Thiel. Emotions against Pack run very high; Thiel is generally viewed (I believe) as pathetic.

What is true is that Thiel has been more visible on this blog lately. This is because as 5:17 PM pointed out, Thiel's website contains a near daily eruption of diarrhea, giving much material for this site to draw from. Meanwhile, Pack is still mostly keeping his head down after his spectacular prophetic failure a couple years ago when COG leaders were to die and their flocks were to come running home to papa. If you search this site's archives, you will find that Pack was the principal topic of conversation for several months leading up to that fiasco. When Pack lifts his head again, I expect his prominence on this site to increase accordingly.

P.S. Nice comment 5:42 PM.

RSK said...

You think Dave garners less emotion? Not following the reasoning.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Mikey wants a helmet like that.

Does it come with different colors?

Can we customize the title?

Anonymous said...

Good bye, Charlie Speck.
I hope you one day will accept the psychological help that you so desperately need.

Anonymous said...

Charlie's OK. Most people suffer from a "why did you have to come here" syndrome. We've established our own equilibrium, and someone we disagree with or is vocal with rad opinions suddenly shows up.