Tuesday, October 4, 2016

Dave Pack ready to help his god burn Jews and ministers as his god attempts to bring strong winds to destroy other COG HQ's

An anonymous source sent me the following excerpts from a sermon of Dave Pack's. The more Dave speaks the further he sinks into mental health issues that are warping his mind with delusional thoughts that could potentially end in a dangerous situation. While he tries to present himself above reproach in the sermon he preaches by presenting himself as an apostle, his words have the potential to set off mentally ill members of his church into bringing his words into reality.

Dave's believes his god is getting ready to destroy the headquarters of the various splinter groups with a strong wind.

This sermon is very anti-Semitic and he talks a lot about his god burning the Jewish rabbi's and teachers around the world because they are  deniers of his god.

Some of what I picked up in the first 45 ,minutes of a 2 hour sermon are this:

Zech 11  Grace (Beauty) and Bands  nations of the west are about top throw Judah under the bus
Fire is about to devour people…ministers    Vs 2   all these trees will be brought down…the whole chapter is about god dealing with BAD ministers.
Vs 7   after ministers are slaughtered, Dave’s god is going to bring the flock (members of splinter groups) over to PC.
Dave hopes it will be this coming spring  as they gather together in “one accord” by Pentecost
Lots of reasons to watch the Bands (the brotherhood)   God will cut off three shepherds in one month.  God loathes them as they do him.  God binds the rest into bundles to be burned  Matt 13:30 in a furnace of fire
When god begins to work with the Jews in Jerusalem, scorners will be burnt to death by god.
I’m not a fire and bringstone preacher, breathren. But Christ talked over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over about how if you don't obey me am going to burn you.
Many church members do not believe that.  Dave says he say many ministers and members left in the 70’s because they believed in “universal salvation”   Dave says this makes an absolute mockery of he Bible.   He says if you feel this way then go be an atheist and don't worry about.   Go be Adolph Hitler, or Mother Teresa or whoever you want as it does not make a bit of difference. You will be saved anyway.
People just don’t believe that his god is going to burn people to death.
 Church has always believed lake of fire was the second death. Christ is going to burn people to death.  To say otherwise is to call him a liar.
 Can no more have the wicked in the first dominion than you can have the devil and his angels in it. Could not get anything done.  Cant even get anything done in the church if people can divide and disagree and blow things off.   Cant get any where if these people are in the church.  What are you to do with them?   They have to be removed.
For a long time I struggled to determine which was a literal fire and that which was symbolic 
God is going to burn them in a furnace.  Their ashes will be under OUR feet, otherwise God is a lair!
 I have come clearly to understand that the tares are taken out of the church, bundled, put under the foolish shepherd, wait a while as they wait for Christ’s kingdom to come.  They will be punished alter after Christ comes.  Leaders of the world will be put in chains and imprisoned.  You (RCG members) may be literally the ones who put them in prison and then lets them out.
God will kill the three Shepard’s.  I saw that in 2012 and I have never moved from that.
Two great awesome truths have been shown to us over the last three years. One is the unifying of the church to do this awesome, great marvelous work.  A resurrection of the dead is involved.  A worldwide earthquake is involved. Mass healing is involved.  Absolute unity.  400 groups will GO AWAY!  The whole world will see this.  They will come to us in two groups.  Some people will have to choose.  Hopefully they will choose the right one during this fire.  Then the foolish shepherd is destroyed and there is a cursing.  This Work starts with an ENORMOUS BANG! But it’s no the KOG yet. Because there is no way to bring the Kingdom till Christ fixes the rotten, Sodom like rulers of Judah who have been poisoning people since they killed Christ and the prophets before him and the apostles after him.
The same scorners are in Jerusalem today. Messianic Zionists, who if you get in the way of OUR temple and our country because we are God’s chosen people….they will slit your throat as fast as they will a Palestinians.
Those leaders have fanned out to synagogues all over the world. The entire world is going to watch God deal with these people (Jews) because they are  in every nation of the world. It's the rabbi’s that are the problem.  It's the religious leaders who hated Christ…the scribes, the Pharisees, the elders and the chief priests.   They are despisers and scorners.  They gotta die!  We are going to have to talk to them to give them a chance to change.  I am going to be going into Jerusalem, but I am going to be going into a lot of other western capitals and saying some fairly serious things, with two guys on either side of me. All of those things are EXACTLY as we believe them.  Its been a long time with prophecy to get to this point were I can explain it to 
Some more highlights are these points sent by the anonymous source.

·         I hope it is this spring…
·         Burnt to death by God
·         I am not a fire and brimstone preacher
·         Christ said over and over and over and over again that if you don’t obey me I am going to burn you. Fire. Ashes. Consume. Take your pick. But I am going to burn you to death.
·         You have always believed the lake of fire is the second death
·         Christ said over and over and over he is going to burn people to death he means it. It’s serious. And if you say otherwise, you are calling him a liar
·         You won’t get anywhere with the church if you don’t remove people 
·         Which of these verse are literal and which ones aren’t?
·         Tares and wicked are burned to death
·         What’s coming on the church is serious. 
·         They wait a while, and then they are burnt to death
·         The devil knows what he is doing. The devil burnt Jews
·         It is interesting how the devil perverts things
·         Nobody doubts what this means
·         In this case, they are probably going to be cast in alive. 
·         Burnt them all to death
·         Speculation: Is it possible that God is going to use wind to destroy the splinters headquarters? With literal wind. This is a question, not a statement. 
·         We will be swimming in money
1:32 – Key part
·         Put down your Bibles and just listen
·         Scriptures listed proving people will be cast alive into a fire
·         1:37 – they will be told they are out, and they know they will be burned later
·         “If you don’t believe all these plain verses you cannot claim to be obeying the many other less obviously verses in your bible that define Christianity.”
·         11 people have left. They have rejected this prophecy. They don’t believe the Bible.
·         These verses plain…are impossible to miss. 
·         “It impossible to miss them. It’s impossible to miss that those who reject them will be burnt to death this side, long before, the great tribulation and long before the third resurrection.”
·         Some will be put to death in the first dominion
·         “If you reject all these passages about either death by fire or all of this prophecy you are calling God and Christ liars and you will be burned in a literal oven. All over the world hear God’s servant now. I am telling you. This is serious. The Bible is a real book….
·         “Those who are going to be burned it will be long before the tribulation and they won’t even live to see the First Dominion. It will happen at the beginning. Brethren, obey God. Carry out your word to Him. Carry out his will. Pray, study, fast, grow and overcome, so none of these verses need ever apply.”


DennisCDiehl said...

Dave Pack grows more theologically delusional by the week. Dave could be taken down theologically just as easily as he was dismantled scientifically for foolishly presenting his 12 part ill informed and outdated series on Creationism.

"Delusions are always self-referent: the belief or notion always has something to do
with ONESELF – and, of course, my religion, my spiritual belief is extremely personal.

One does not have delusions about remote places or times without it having some
reference to ME."

The following can indicate a delusion:

The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force.

That idea appears to have an undue influence on the patient's life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.

Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.

The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.

There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.

An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.

The belief is, at the least, unlikely, and out of keeping with the patient's social, cultural and religious background.

The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of their psyche.

The delusion, if acted out, often leads to behaviors which are abnormal and/or out of character, although perhaps understandable in the light of the delusional beliefs.

Individuals who know the patient observe that the belief and behavior are uncharacteristic and alien.

Additional features of delusional disorder include the following:[11]
It is a primary disorder.

It is a stable disorder characterized by the presence of delusions to which the patient clings with extraordinary tenacity.

The illness is chronic and frequently lifelong.

The delusions are logically constructed and internally consistent.

The delusions do not interfere with general logical reasoning (although within the delusional system the logic is perverted) and there is usually no general disturbance of behavior. If disturbed behavior does occur, it is directly related to the delusional beliefs.

The individual experiences a heightened sense of self-reference. Events which, to others, are nonsignificant are of enormous significance to him or her, and the atmosphere surrounding the delusions is highly charged.


Byker Bob said...

There was some element of GTA's personality that just reached out and attracted his listeners, often in spite of his message. He had a down to earth way of humanizing the message, making it accessible to people who otherwise would have found it quite repugnant. And, although I never was on the wavelength to perceive it, apparently his father had that same effect on the older generation.

You can't manufacture or fake that. It is an unquantifiable force or attraction that none of the current pretenders to the throne have. Statements such as these being made by Dave Pack and others send off signals of mean spiritedness, in fact, they scream "predator". They all fit quite a different profile, that of individuals carefully identified and groomed to be the Armstrongs' enforcers in the field. These were the SS or KGB type guys who made it possible for the Armstrongs to accomplish what they did largely through charisma. These drill sergeants were never groomed or intended to ascend to positions in which their own charisma would attract, cast a spell upon, and bind large numbers of followers. Most of those who actually (and perhaps "accidentally") had that quality left the ministry entirely, and became successful in other fields.

And, basically, doesn't this fit and complement the ravenous wolf metaphor? Most successful leaders possess an innate ability to inspire those looking to them, to humanize and almost act as a buffer for an unpleasant message. That's what is missing in all of the ACOGs. For all intents and purposes, it was bred out by the system in favor of other types.


Byker Bob said...

Also, husbands and wives often have an interplay which stabilizes both of them. Fathers and sons also play off one another in beneficial ways. You can substitute for, but never fully compensate for the loss of these two critical elements. Herbert lost both of these, Loma through death, and GTA to a political struggle in which either an immoral father or a morally bankrupt son was going to destroy the other.

The image which current ACOG leaders would all have most freshly embedded in their minds is that of Herbert after he had suffered these two pivotal, devastating, and destabilizing losses. In fact, some of the "leaders" frequently quoted here have even cited their own losses in this category as a positive, as evidence of a kinship with HWA. They actually imagine that it is a positive, a validation of their work.


Steve J said...

Dave Pack...the pyromaniac prophet

Redfox712 said...

What dreadful words. And anti-Semitic as well. Just terrible.

Connie Schmidt said...

Dave Pack makes SHARIA LAW seem enlightened!

PS To Byker Bob at 9:37-- Excelllent insight! Hitler was charismatic too, but used henchmen for the "dirty work" of enforcement. Henchmen do not make good successor leaders.

Minimalist said...

11 people have left. They have rejected this prophecy.

This is the reality: A consistent relentless attrition by defections. The movement is doomed. They may already be below critical-mass with regards to income necessary to maintain operations at the massive campus -- History repeating itself as in the financial failures of Bricket Wood, Big Sandy, Pasadena!

DennisCDiehl said...

I imagine the Jewish Community would not take kindly to Dave's reference to his god burning them up. Fortunately, Dave's Lake of Fire and the Christian "Hell" is as much a literary construct for effect as the characters who are assigned the deadly tasks of the Deity who evidently has the view of "love and obey me or I'll kill you"

Diversity of views, perspectives, tastes and even disinterest in topics the Deity and His followers deem as vital and "like nothing you have ever heard" as Dave likes to say, never seems to enter the picture.

Who would ever want actually live an environment and with the kind of people or gods described and demanded to be believed these guys come up with, including the guys in the Book?

"Hell" would be the chosen alternative for many I expect even though it seems the only one available to avoid such fate as the Church of God/Evangelical/literalist Kingdom of God.

Can you imagine how much you'd enjoy a FOT if you were not of the culture and were forced to attend because rain is being withheld until you do attend as we read? Forced compliance of belief is a dead end and Bible authors never seemed to get that. It's like saying "You MUST relax" The "MUST" kinda stresses out the relaxed part.

DennisCDiehl said...

Dave opines:

"Christ said over and over and over he is going to burn people to death he means it. It’s serious. And if you say otherwise, you are calling him a liar"

No Dave. No Christ ever really said that. The authors are the liars making it up for reasons you'd probably love and already use unknowlingly (I hope) if you ever caught on.

“If you don’t believe all these plain verses you cannot claim to be obeying the many other less obviously verses in your bible that define Christianity."

Sure we could. The more "plain" and threatening the verses, you can pretty much know the author, such as the whole Book of Revelation, is trying too hard.

“If you reject all these passages about either death by fire or all of this prophecy you are calling God and Christ liars and you will be burned in a literal oven. All over the world hear God’s servant now. I am telling you. This is serious. The Bible is a real book….

No, I just mentioned it's an author and human thing. Who manufactures these "literal ovens" General Electric? Bosch? Miel? Kitchen-aid? Frigidaire? You are not any "God's Servant." It's not a serious as you pretend it to be. The Bible is probably not quite what you think it is.

" Brethren, obey God. Carry out your word to Him. Carry out his will. Pray, study, fast, grow and overcome, so none of these verses need ever apply.”

Me thinks you "Crow and Over-gum" too much already Dave. Do you mean carry out your word to him as in "to me" and "Send it in!"? Not to worry. They won't ever apply to anyone and the spankings have been cancelled.

If any of this need be true it would be just and an idea I am going to float to the Karma Fairy that Rod Meredith gives you the spanking of your life...in your Kingdom of course.

Anonymous said...

"I’m not a fire and bringstone preacher, breathren. But Christ talked over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over about how if you don't obey me am going to burn you."

DCP would do well to remember that the next time he's sitting in a restaurant on the Sabbath or High Holy Day.

Hoss said...

If what was reported here was anywhere close to what happened in Wadsworth, for me, Dave has crossed the line. As far COG troubleshooting goes, I believe RCG-brand Armstrongism has proven it is definitely beyond repair.

Senior Citizen said...

The key phrase by Pack and indeed in all the churches of God is "PUT DOWN YOUR BIBLES'.
The church has always had to spin the bible to make their theology work.
"Oh",they say, "it doesn't really mean that, the translation is wrong or the comma is in the wrong place".
And they have always added to scripture.
For instance they insist Christ was dead for a whole 72 hours meaning that his resurrection was on the 4th day then. But they insist on that even when the bible says nothing of the sort and other scripture shows 3 days and nights meaning parts of the same.
So it is no surprise that adulterating scripture, making things up and spinning scripture to support them and telling people to listen to HQ and put down their bibles is happening with Dave. It is the legacy of the entire church of God(so-called).

To be a member of any of the C of G's you must suspend belief in Christ and transfer all loyalty to HWA and his minions.

Anonymous said...

Well, my estimation of the risk of RCG going horribly wrong in a newsworthy way has just increased by something like 50%. Bob Thiel must be jealous. He wants to be newsworthy too. Somehow I don't think Bob has quite the right kind of cray-z for that. I'm becoming more and more convinced that Dave Pack might become just that unhinged.

Black Ops Mikey said...

False prophets are not allowed to live per Scripture, but are rather nonspecific in the manner in which they are to be executed.

Perhaps God allows the false prophet to choose the style of execution.

Apparently, Dave Pack wants to be burned up as a false prophet... but that doesn't mean our problem is solved -- should it be burned up in a furnace, burned alive in a volcano or (our personal ideal) burned at the stake.

And when he dies from burns for being a false prophet, will he smell like chicken?

Anonymous said...

The unfortunate truth is that traditional Armstrongism always took a dual approach. For dignitaries and world leaders (and possibly some of the co-workers), there was the gentle gospel of the unseen hand from somewhere. Once conned and hooked, the members got quite a different gospel, and that gospel was based on receiving an entirely different extremity! As I've remarked in the past, all of the ACOG ministers should have been required to change their first name to "Dick".

Anonymous said...

So now it's Dave and the 2 witnesses? He always has to be the star of the show! What part of this series is he on now? Last I heard it was part 40- and no I am not trying to be funny! Best I can figure, the reason anyone still stays at HQ is they have given everything and want to keep their job. The pay is good for the ministry.

Anonymous said...

This is scarry.I do not doubt that Pack is becoming more unhinged.Insanity comes in many forms.Religion can increase it's effectiveness.

Anonymous said...

Hope UCG, PCG, LCG and COGWA are up to date on their arson insurance payments...

Anonymous said...

I see he is back to predicting this will occur in the spring (at Pentecost). He's already been down this road. When he started this whole series about the reunification and three men dying it was supposed to be a spring Holy Day event. Then it was a fall Holy Day event. Then it was, we can't know the day or hour event. Now it is back to a spring Holy Day event. Then after Pentecost it will be back to a fall Holy Day event. Then what? You guessed it... we can't know the day or hour.... When does it end?

Glenn said...

What did Dave do with the money he got from selling his house? Did it become "common" or did he stash it in his personal retirement account?

Hoss said...

While RCG may have nothing to look forward to than the COG version of Chapter 11, Dave Pack appears to be more inline with a Section 8.

The kind of help needed reminded me of this advice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f54HHWY6GFk

Anonymous said...

Anyone know which sermon he said this?

Anonymous said...

Careful Davey Pack, play nice- otherwise the Wadsworth Giant Eagle might just lay a giant rotten egg and place it in your stocking on Christmas eve...


Anonymous said...

By far the most accurate and speedy prediction that I ever heard in any of the Splinter Groups was from a United Church minister. I mentioned to him that Donald Tiger (the man behind the HWA CD project) had gone with David Pack and his newly formed Restored Church. The United Church minister immediately became animated and blurted out: “I'll make you a prediction. They won't be able to get along.” That was about all that the UCG minister said, besides adding that he was ashamed that David Pack was a minister. No doubt, those who know David Pack will say that such a prediction was an obvious “no brainer.”

NO2HWA said...

Concerning Don Tiger, see this: http://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2014/01/did-david-c-pack-frame-don-tiger.html