Wednesday, January 25, 2017

Ignore-ance- "What you ignore, not only what you don't know, but what you won't know."



“Recognize that the very molecules that make up your body, the atoms that construct the molecules, are traceable to the crucibles that were once the centers of high mass stars that exploded their chemically rich guts into the galaxy, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of life. So that we are all connected to each other biologically, to the earth chemically and to the rest of the universe atomically. That’s kinda cool! That makes me smile and I actually feel quite large at the end of that. It’s not that we are better than the universe, we are part of the universe. We are in the universe and the universe is in us.” 
― Neil deGrasse Tyson


"As far as  Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson goes, are you serious? In all due respect, he comes across as a zealot to push an anti-God agenda and certainly not as a scientist interested in the truth. I watched several of his television programs years ago and my recollection is that I found his 'proofs' sorely lacking"

Dr. Robert Thiel

“... there is no shame in not knowing.  The problem arises when irrational thought and attendant behavior "fill the vacuum left by ignorance....."

The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you.” 

"… but people prefer reassurance to research.”

― Neil deGrasse Tyson

"As far as  Dr. Robert Thiel goes, are you serious? In all due respect, he comes across as a zealot to push a Only I Understand God agenda and certainly not as a theologian interested in the truth. I watched several of his youtube videos years ago and my recollection is that I found his 'proofs' sorely lacking"

Not Neil DeGrasse Tyson




19 comments:

Black Ops Mikey said...

Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson is a professional competent quailed scientist, widely regarded in his field.

Robert Thiel is apparently does NOT hold a valid doctorate degree from an accredited institution is not competent in any field of which we are aware (please note the negative [skeptical] comments from Skepticon regarding naturopathic practice).

The extraordinary claims [outrageous] of Robert Thiel demand extraordinary evidence (which is entirely lacking).

Would Robert Thiel care to back up his opinions with peer reviewed mathematics?

After watching Calculus Rhapsody, be sure to catch I will derive.

Get real Thiel.

Kathleen said...

Thanks for posting this, Gary and Dennis!

Anonymous said...

The Most Astounding Fact
I'm glad that Sgt. Ron Nathan Harris got into science.

Anonymous said...

For anyone who wants or needs a introduction into Cosmology check out "Everything and Nothing". It is a beautiful film. The warm and organic visuals are refreshing in contrast to the same-old CGI fare. I wish I had a HD link for you.

"We have begun to understand in ever greater detail the world at the very limits of our perceptions, and in doing so we have uncovered the strange truth about reality itself. There is a profound connection between the nothingness from which we originated and the infinite in which we are engulfed."

Anonymous said...


“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”--Neil deGrasse Tyson


Keep in mind that only true science is true. Fake "science" is still fake even if you do believe in it.

Ed said...

I have been told that I am "mad at God" because I question his existence. This I guess is the buzz phrase used by those that are "in the box" thinkers. You would think that the most important question you can ask is "does God exist?". Why shut-off critical examination of that question? I am a scientific minded person and need proof that something or someone exists before I believe in its existence. Faith means nothing to me because it is void of any tangible evidence.

Miller Jones said...

Dennis, I would characterize your first quote from Dr. Tyson as being spiritually SUPERIOR to the one which follows it by "Dr." Thiel. I would also say that Dr. Tyson appears to be closer to the God Who Cannot Be Contained than the pretended doctor. It's just too bad that some folks have such limited views of things scientific and spiritual and refuse to see even the possibility of overlap between them.

DennisCDiehl said...

Anon said:

Keep in mind that only true science is true. Fake "science" is still fake even if you do believe in it."

That's true as well. Astrology is false but was a lead in to astronomy. Phrenology was a start in the neurosciences and studies of human personality and psychology.
It took a little longer to realize that Gospel demon possession was childhood epilepsy at play and that the symptoms of visions, bright lights and r voices in the head , with religious content, no one else hears can also be temporal lobe epilepsy.

Religious mythologies and the ideas of priestcrafts always flow toward clarification by science. Science does not flow back to religious mythologies and explanations. If you look at every single challenge the God of Job made to humble Job from did he know where the treasuries of the snow were to how birds fly and such, while Job may not have known, we certainly do. The challenges of Job can be answered easily by any high school student. These mysteries of religion were explained eventually by science.

“God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that gets smaller and smaller as time goes on” – Neil deGrasse Tyson

The "God of the Gaps" is simply believing that when there is an area we do not yet know the answers for, "God must have done it". Thus God fills the gap of not yet knowing, until we do and then he gets squeezed out..again.

Religion does not force good science done well into that predicament.

Some who claim to be modern science types , but who cling to Bronze Age concepts such as God uses bad weather to "try to get people to repent" and dreams to communicate His puzzles, codes and ordinations to specialness are stuck between two worlds and kidding themselves.

Once one can get past, "but the Bible says" or "God says in the Bible" (It's really Priests and Prophets...men, telling you what they imagine their God would say) the lights can better come on and it can take a few thousands years as it has.

Scientists never burned a priest at the stake but may have wanted to punch them in the face a time or two...

Hoss said...

"As far as Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson goes..." seems familiar, but I can't find it. I only found where Bob responded to a line from Cosmos where Dr Tyson apparently said evolution is just as much a scientific fact as gravity.

At least Dr Tyson received no epithet, unlike Bill Nye, referred to as he "who improperly calls himself the ‘Science Guy’".

Anonymous said...

Some who claim to be modern science types , but who cling to Bronze Age concepts such as God uses bad weather to "try to get people to repent" and dreams to communicate His puzzles, codes and ordinations to specialness are stuck between two worlds and kidding themselves.

Has any earthquake or hurricane or drought or other weather disaster moved Rod Meredith to repentance? If so, what event did it, and what were the fruits of that repentance?

We all know the answer. Rod always takes bad weather as a sign that his enemies need to repent and that he doesn't need to make any changes. But think for a minute, if Rod is much Godly than his enemies, he will be quicker to repent than his enemies will be. If weather disasters haven't moved Rod to repent, then they are less likely to move Rod's enemies to repentance. Thus we have proved that God does not use the weather to scare people into repenting.

Byker Bob said...

What often happens with polarization is that opposite sides aren't just content with co-existing, and perhaps functioning as checks and balances upon one another while living and functioning according to their own individual understandings in the same ecosystem. The stakes have become so high that opposing extremists actually want to elliminate each other. And, that is the sort of mentality that starts wars, and foments ignorance.

These wars of opposing polarities are not just restricted to our own little world of Armstrongism vs science and history, or on a larger scope, science vs religion, either. I knew that when the Democrats used the great recession as a pretense, for example, to enact their entire agenda, that we would eventually see an equal or possibly even greater and opposite reaction. And now, we suddenly hear of "alternative facts", and witness actual photographs being denied, just as worsening satellite image evidence of global climate change has been ignored and dismissed as "junk science" for nearly twenty years now.

Unfortunately, the war of ideologies and agendas has run wild and become predominant, and as we all witness that, it can't help but pique or influence all of our own perceptions, since this is the world in which we must all live and function. Unfortunately, it also means that the vehicles by which Neil DeGrasse Tyson comes to us are probably going to be defunded in the near future.

I fear that we're in for some turbulence for a while. It's not exactly an apocalypse, but the world around us has become bipolar. I just wish there could be some meds to modulate that.

BB

Homer said...

I became to understand Tyson better after I saw the following video on Youtube several years ago. It does not eliminate the concept of a creator. IMO it gives credence to an origin of order and design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk

In the last few days I also appreciated the following article which supports the concept of a "God" which indicates a universe of order, beauty, elegance and simplicity.

http://conservativetribune.com/physicist-bombshell-god-like/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=teaparty&utm_content=2017-01-21&utm_campaign=can

As I see it, religion has taken something which is real and made that reality into a means of control of those who may not understand the order, design, beauty, elegance and simplicity of the universe.

Anonymous said...

Adding to what Dennis said...

Science doesn't really deal with truth per se, but with provisional certainties, with, based upon everything that is known on the cutting edge, what is probably true. Truth of the dogmatic variety is not a feature of science, despite the equivocal language or conspiracy theories that many religious people will use to make it sound like science is dogmatic.

As a result of its provisional nature, sometimes "scientific truth" gets overturned by additional observations. Although many religious people will speak as though this is a weakness, it is actually it's greatest strength, for it is through this process that science advances. The observations we are able to make are always limited, and no matter how big our picture may be, it is always incomplete, and there is always room for that picture to get a little bigger, and as it does, our best explanation of the previous evidence may be confirmed, or it may be falsified. Time and time again, nature has showed a capacity to surprise us, although I think that says more about us than it does about nature. The universe is always speaking, and scientists are watching and listening, and when it says something unexpected, scientists are responsive.

The religious mindset, on the other hand, is not responsive. It begins with dogmatic answers instead of questions, and refuses to relinquish religious "truth," often in the face of overwhelming evidence of its falsehood. Many religious people think faithfulness to predetermined dogmatism is their greatest strength, but it is actually their greatest weakness. Religious people are never watching or listening, so much so that they deny that those who are could possibly be onto something.

While god is limited to an ever-receding pocket of ignorance in general, for the individual, their pocket of ignorance does not recede. In fact, long after ignorance has been swept away by scientific inquiry, many will fight to preserve the natural habitat of their god—the pocket of their own personal ignorance. They will deny knowledge that infringes upon that terrarium of ignorance in which they keep their supernatural menagerie. Outside of that, in the words of Laplace, they, like everyone else, "have no need of that hypothesis": demons are no longer the source of epilepsy or disease, the pinpoints of light are no longer gods, and divine favor is no longer required for the sun to rise each morning. The supernatural was squeezed out of those niches too long ago. But within the purview of their minds, they will not permit the gods to be evicted from niches vacated in modern times, no matter how overwhelming the evidence for that eviction might be.

Science is not a form of religion and on the flip side, religious ignorance is not a form of knowledge.

Anonymous said...

"The "God of the Gaps" is simply believing that when there is an area we do not yet know the answers for, "God must have done it". Thus God fills the gap of not yet knowing, until we do and then he gets squeezed out..again."

"You don't have to believe in God, but you should believe in The Book." - Paul Erdos

With what little money he had left over from his meager lifestyle, he would offer it as prizes for solving mathematical puzzles and the proving of theoroms. Whenever someone produced or discovered an elegant proof, he would claim "You stole that one straight from the Book!"

Having gone through my cult experiences, I could never understand why science was considered anti-God. Sure, there could be scientists who could do "bad" things but how does that make the science bad? I guess, I had already learned that just reading and holding, even supposedly obeying the Bible couldn't stop you from being a "bad" person.

DBP

Anonymous said...

"Unfortunately, it also means that the vehicles by which Neil DeGrasse Tyson comes to us are probably going to be defunded in the near future."

I think I understand where you're coming from. But when the government is the sole or major provider of funds for crazy shit like this which springs forth from our "bureaucratic-loving" universities. It basically boils down to more government control. Maybe you were alluding to what was recently in the news, but the MSM is just dumping on Trump. I choose to interpret it as "..stop politicizing science and get some work done."

"As I see it, religion has taken something which is real and made that reality into a means of control of those who may not understand the order, design, beauty, elegance and simplicity of the universe."

I like how you put that. Religion can still be helpful if you frame it as art, at least that is what I choose to do. Just remember that there is a whole lot of bad art out there!

DBP

Black Ops Mikey said...

British Israelism is science fiction, which I will illustrate with facts to back it up from respected sources in the next few months.

British Israelism is science fiction -- the WORST Science Fiction ever!

At least that's what the ads will say....

Anonymous said...

Neil DeGrasse Tyson has his own public "Trump/Thiel" side where he regularly makes up politically corrosive quotes (particularly against conservative figures) and vaguely (and falsely) attributes them. He's been called out on this by a variety of sources. A Washington Post writer weighed in on the false claims: "Tyson claims to be a man of science who follows the evidence where it leads. The evidence here clearly shows Tyson screwed up. Whether knowingly or not, he regularly repeated a false account in order to cast aspersions on another public figure. The only proper thing to do is recant and apologize."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/09/22/does-neil-degrasse-tyson-make-up-stories/?utm_term=.a0719037ba40

Dennis Diehl said...

Of Dogma...Sanctified ignorance is still ignorance

Anonymous said...

January 26, 2017 at 7:14 AM

Déjà vu

DBP