Saturday, March 4, 2017

Dave Pack: " have to disagree with the Bible to follow the truth"

Superfantabulous Dave, Lord and Overseer of the First Dominion, has this to say about the apostles and the Bible.   Dave has to say this in order to make his convoluted "new truth's" make any sense to his members.

Do you realize you have to disagree with the Bible to follow the truth? Think on that one! If you agree with the apostles, you have to believe THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD CAME 2,000 YEARS AGO. You CANNOT GET AROUND THAT or you, literally, disagree with all the 12 apostles and with what they wrote in God’s Holy Word. Think on that one. There are those who do believe that the Kingdom did come 2,000 years ago. We call them…Catholics. They believe it did come then and that they are it.
Now, the Protestants spun that a little bit, and the apostates of 25 years ago also got a similar idea from the Protestants that the Kingdom is here, but not yet in its fullness. So when you pray “Thy Kingdom come” you are praying for it to come in its fullness. It’s here and a good Evangelical, a good Protestant spreads it. The job of a Christian is to spread an already existing Kingdom. But of course, we never believed that. We know better.
All the people that want to hold to Mr. Armstrong, who tried to interpret and understand the Bible, never think of it the way I just explained it. Peter, Paul, Jude…I mean, Peter—“The end of all things is at hand!” No it wasn’t. He says it later in this book in another couple of chapters. Did he lie? How would you put it? He spoke falsely? Oooh…no! It’s the way God wanted the Bible written. It’s absolutely what God wanted the apostles to say. Mr. Armstrong understood this much for sure—and said it—it’s as though the Bible was written to the Philadelphian era of God’s Church, to the last generation. Almost, I’m tempted to say, little did he know…but he did know, so I don’t want to say that. But if he knew all that we know, he would know he was…Let’s put it this way…more right than he knew.
But still, on its face, if you look at Peter and Paul…you know, John says “we live in the last time.” How many times did Paul say “It’s the last days?” Told Timothy to continue and be strong. Perilous times would come in the last days, and Timothy, here’s how you act during that…except Timothy died 2,000 years ago or thereabouts. You see? So I’m trying to help you understand. In order to believe the truth, you have to believe that the apostles were wrong. It just so happens though, the apostles wrote the Bible and they thought they lived in the last days. So you have to reject, not just one apostle, but 12, in that one narrow, little regard—and you have to reject what they wrote in Scripture, not in booklets. Do you see what I’m saying? I’m trying to get you to think differently.
Don’t lock into what Mr. Armstrong said. He would not want that. He said, “If I can be shown I’m wrong, please show it! Come and show me the proof—but I have to see proof.” I can’t wait to talk with him about this. I know him. Initially, he’ll say “How did I not see it?” and it will be pretty easy to say that…“You weren’t supposed to yet.” Knowledge would increase. He did not have any idea that he was…Can you imagine Mr. Armstrong coming up and finding out he was over three decades off, and the Kingdom isn’t here yet? Over three decades? He’d say “What?”


Byker Bob said...

In some ways, it almost seems as if Dave has been paying attention to what Dennis has contributed. LOL!

Nonetheless, for those who accept the Bible as being totally perfect, containing no conflicts whatsoever, and not subject to any common-sense evaluation, Dave has just opened Pandora's Box.

Finally, if Mr. Armstrong does "come up", as Dave so quaintly words it, it's much more likely that he would be astonished in quite a different way, saying, "What???? My scam was actually real??? Is this Hell?"

Oh, and by the way Dave! Assuming the translation was accurate, if real apostles who studied directly under the Son of God were 2,000 years off, imagine how far off you could be! You might want to be cogitating on that as you do your fantasy speculating! If there are thousands of years still left, the superfantabulous one may not even get a small honorable mention in the new book of Acts


Black Ops Mikey said...

Just who or what should anyone believe in then?

You can't believe the Bible, so where is any authority for saying anything at all?

Do we just take the word of anyone who comes along?

This is like dividing by zero -- anything is possible (except it isn't since dividing zero is not allowed).

The only real thing you have left is science, which relies upon observation -- consistent observation at that.

So observing David Pack over the years has shown proof positive scientifically (and we can perform repeated experiments on this) that he is inconsistent and we can't believe a word he says (which would, unfortunately, would include that we can't believe in the Bible [although it has already been disproved because of Ephraim and Chronicles]).

Hoss said...

Byker Bob wrote: Assuming the translation was accurate

And translations coming from various, differing Greek texts, written by people with Hebraic culture who spoke Aramaic... And Kingdom of Heaven/God was a roundabout way of saying the Messiah is here.

As Orlin Grabbe wrote, ministers are Biblical illiterates...

DennisCDiehl said...

Dave is dealing with the fact that the Gospels, Epistles and pastorals had a limited shelf life. The Book of Revelation also had a limited shelf life and proved a false prophecy, written to encourage but ultimately failed to come to pass with the Roman crushing of Jerusalem in 70 AD. (Like many, I believe it was written in 69ish to the summer of 70 just prior to the fall of Jerusalem and not in the 90's)

Dave is rewriting the NT in his mind, as do many, who have to wrestle with : (from memory)

"The hour now is..."
"Time is short..."
"The day is far spent"
"Of things which must shortly come to pass"
"Behold I come quickly"
"...we who are alive and remain..."
"we shall not all sleep"
"When YOU see these things know..."

and so on.

Since none of this happened and time was not short, we have the author of Peter , not really Peter the Apostle, write his famous "where is the promise of his coming" passage where those who question are labeled scoffers etc. So it is today as well.

So it is once again natural, as hundreds of churches in the past 2000 years also did, to rewrite what the Bible "meant" or what God or Jesus really "meant", as if Dave knew. He doesn't.

No Jesus is actually going to return as advertised. Not now, not later, not ever. Protestants gave up on that and rerouted Christians to Heaven or hell upon death and never talk about any second coming or Kingdom of God on earth etc.

Dave is full of both himself and BS apologetics.

Anonymous said...

Where did you find this? What is the source?

NO2HWA said...

It was in either sermon 40 or 41. Not near my computer right now.