Thursday, April 13, 2017

COGWA On What True Prophets Should Be Like

The Church of God a Worldwide Association had an article out recently on the attributes of a true prophet.  Now that the Church of God feels it is getting close to the end times Herbert preached about, more and more of them are discussing prophets.  Part of that issue might also arose from the fact we have a myriad of fools in the COG who have self appointed themselves as God's end time mouthpiece.  From Wadsworth Ohio to Edmond Oklahoma, to Arroyo Grande California, the foolish shepherds are proclaiming their unholy attribute of prophethood.

COGWA listed these qualities of a prophet in the COG community:

Four tests to prove whether a prophet is true 

We need to carefully consider God’s Word—the Bible—in order to discern between false and true prophets. The Bible provides four tests to determine the genuineness of a prophet.

1. Does the conduct of the prophet reflect godly character?

2. Do the predictions of the prophet come true?
3. Are the words of the prophet consistent with Scripture?
4. Do the people benefit spiritually from the prophet’s ministry?

Do you know of any man in the Church of God that fits ANY of those criteria?  Certainly no COG minister, evangelists or church leader has any of those attributes...well, maybe except for one...

I will give you one guess as to WHO thinks he is the one and only true mouthpiece of God's prophetic word...

It is our very own Almost-arrested Elisha, Elijah, Amos, Joshua, Chief Overseer and the bitter disappointing "son" of Rod Meredith!  Who knew?????????  Shocking!  Right?

Here is what the glorious end time prophet had to say in regards to COGWA's list:

Although COGWA left out some criteria, even based upon the above criteria, there is one person in one of the COGs that meets all those criteria, and he is not part of COGWA, but physically heads up the (improperly named) Continuing Church of God (CCOG). 
Not only does apostate Thiel claim he is a true prophet, he also make sit know that the knows MORE that COGWA does when it come to prophethood.  The delusional self-appointed fool claims he has another import attribute that makes him a true prophet.  He dreams dreams!  It still boggles my mind that this man is still claiming a nightmare he had over some bad seafood make shim a prophet!

The Bible teaches:
6 “Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision;a
I speak to him in a dream. (Numbers 12:6)
I had at least two such dreams, and others had dreams, essentially concerning those about me 
So what is going to happen to those of us who who know Apostate Bob to be a false prophet and mock him regularly?   We will not receive a prophet's reward!

He says this:
Consider also that Jesus taught:
41 He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. (Matthew 10:41) 
Jesus is telling His followers that if a true prophet is out there, that they need to follow. Yet, in this Laodicean time (Revelation 3:14-18), most real Christians will not listen to what Jesus said on this and many other matters.
Apostate and self-appointed Thiel is NOT a prophet.  He never has been and will never be one.  No one in their right mind should be following this certified liar who self-appointed himself, gave himself all kinds of titles and preaches absurd sermons in front of crooked bookcases, file cabinets, doorways and sheer curtains.   Nor does thrusting your big Bible in the air make you a real minister.

Towards the end of silly screed he has some more Bible verses to quote that he claims talks about himself and his status as prophet:

In the (improperly named) Continuing Church of God:
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:19-21, KJV)
Apostate Their does NOT have the "sure word of prophecy,"  never has and never will.  No one in there right mind needs to heed the words of this delusional foolish false prophet.  There is no "light shining in a dark place" in the improperly named "continuing" Church of God.  Every single thing Apostate Thiel utters as "truth" is directly his OWN interpretation of how he WANTS things to be.
I can also state as a sure fact that the Holy Spirit is NOT using Elijah Thiel or inspiring him words to speak.  Even Rod Meredith saw through the delusional mental meltdown of Amos Thiel years ago and refused to acknowledge Elisha Thiel's self appointed prophethood.

What Apostate Thiel promotes is counterfeit Christianity.


Martha said...

Now wait a minute! Don't gloss over what COGWA has to say about true and false prophets. I want to hear it!

After all, when the smoke cleared, the COGWA/UCG split basically divided the ministers who still idolized HWA and wanted to promote him more (who went with COGWA) from those who were embarassed by him and wanted to distance themselves (UCG).

This is the same COGWA whose magazine editor called Herbert Armstrong one of the most influential writers and religious leaders of the 20th century. Whose personal correspondence chief once wrote an impassioned defense of Herbert Armstrong's prophecies in which he even threw Jesus under the bus, stating that His prophecies didn't/haven't come to pass as quickly as expected, either.

You can bet that someone, somewhere has been throwing the false prophet card around again. And during the Days of Unleavened Bread!

Maybe good ol' Cecil needs to find a new Louis L'Amour pseudonym and start the war drums going again.

Anonymous said...

Why are cogwa considered more conservative than other liberal cog groups writing an article about false prophets? What's really going on there. False shepherds yes but false prophets? Like your gonna suddenly come across a false prophet in your day.

Anonymous said...

These slivers should be teaching its members how to apply Gods laws instead of harping on prophesy, which has no practical everyday value. But they choose to keep the sheep dumbed down, and easy to control.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Eating pizza before bedtime may cause dreams.

Be certain to take Vitamin B6 so your dreams will be in color.

Forget your dreams? Don't know any help for that.

Are dreams real prophecy?

Ecclesiastes has a few words on that....

Anonymous said...

Martha is right for sure. COGWA avoids much negative reviews due to their good-ole boy secrecy code and lack of transparency, but they fail to live by the words they espouse and are larger hypocrites than those in UCG, the very group they lied about and slandered in order to maintain their texas country club clique. As we expected, they have recently purchased several acres to build their Texas clubhouse, the one that was denied them by those of saner mind in UCG that culminated in their acrimonious departure. I think its time Banned put COGWA more under its scrutinizing lens. They are whited sepulchers.

Anonymous said...

"I had at least two such dreams, and others had dreams, essentially concerning those about me."

Other people sometimes dream about me too. Sometimes I have such dreams as well. Gee, am I a prophet too? Hardly.

Anonymous said...

Four tests to prove whether a christian prophet is true:
1. Does the conduct of the prophet reflect Yahweh's behavior?
2. Do the predictions of the prophet come true?
3. Are the words of the prophet consistent with the bible?
4. Do christians benefit spiritually from the prophet’s ministry?

Four tests to prove whether an islamic prophet is true:
1. Does the conduct of the prophet reflect Allah's behavior?
2. Do the predictions of the prophet come true?
3. Are the words of the prophet consistent with the qur'an?
4. Do muslims benefit spiritually from the prophet’s ministry?

Four tests to prove whether a prophet of Krishna is true:
1. Does the conduct of the prophet reflect Krishna's behavior?
2. Do the predictions of the prophet come true?
3. Are the words of the prophet consistent with the Bhagavatam, Bhagavadgita and the Vedas?
4. Do hindus benefit spiritually from the prophet’s ministry?

Anonymous said...

Three tests to prove whether a prophet is false:
1. Does he claim to be a prophet?
2. Does he make prophetic utterances?
3. Does he claim to speak on behalf of a deity?

If he satisfies one or more of the above criteria, you know he's a false prophet.

Hoss said...

Having read some non-COG articles on the state of American churches, I think 4, do the people benefit spiritually, is a good indicator.

Looking back at the picture in the recent But I kept the sabbath post, I think the "sign" could read "But I know who the King of the North will be!" or "I have 1001 proofs that I was in the true church!"

Connie Schmidt said...

Thiel speaks of dreams. If only Martin Luther King could have given this today to Thiel!


Go back to Thiel, go back to Flurry, go back to Pack, go back to Malm, go back to Weinland, go back to the spiritual slums and ghettos that our churches have become, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair.

I say to you today, my friends, so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the scriptures.

I have a dream that one day this church will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal." That members and ministers have equal status before the Lord.

I have a dream that one day the sons of former tithe slaves and the sons of former tithe takers will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood and equality.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a church where they will not be judged by the name of their leader , but by the content of their own character.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day down in the COG , with its vicious hatreds and arrogant false prophets, wolves, and egomaniacs, , that one day little cog boys and cog girls from any denomination will no longer be separated by money and power hungry religious maniacs will be able to join hands as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exhalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all the COG shall see it together.

Byker Bob said...

OK. So is this article supposed to isolate HWA as having been the one and only true prophet? That does not seem to be a true representation of the facts. Of course, with flame-fanning and blinders, the facts can be manipulated. That's been the course of events thus far.

1) Does the conduct of the prophet reflect Godly character?

My comments: Incest? Alcoholism? Knowingly allowing a coedophile to deflower AC students, some of whom became ministers' wives, for decades?

2) Do the predictions of the prophet come true?

My comment: You mean the ones in which he contaminated the book of Revelation with the false theory of British Israelism? Not in our lifetime!

3) Are the words of the prophet consistent with scripture?

My comment: Is twisting allowed? If two opposing doctrines are presented in scripture, is he allowed to pick his most self-serving favorite? Is it OK to reinterpret the New Covenant to change it back into the Old Covenant?

4) Do the people benefit spiritually from the prophet's ministry?

My comment: You mean the kids raised in the church who had their concepts of God and family permanently warped? The people who died from the medical doctrines? The married couples whose homes were broken up because of the d&r "misunderstanding? The people who banked on 1975?

One would think that this would be an open and shut case against HWA, and any aspiring prophet or teacher in the Armstrong movement. But, spin and twisting were used to bring people around to making HWA's views their own, so it isn't at all strange or unexpected that spin and twisting would be used by his remnant to make it appear retrospectively as if he had been a true prophet of God. When it gets right down to it, the current crop of "prophets" in the ACOGs really are not doing anything all that much different from what HWA did while he was alive. They use Revelation, the church "eras" and British Israelism as the basis for their prophecies, and refine them to suit their own personalities and needs.

The fact is, if ISIS nuked Jerusalem and all of Israel tomorrow, somehow the followers of HWA would find some way to continue to believe that he was some sort of quasi-biblical figure, who, if we waited long enough, would ultimately be shown to be right. If they can dismiss the mapping of the human genome to continue believing British Israelism, the creativity of their self-deception knows no bounds.

The best singular activity which could be pursued by these ACOGs would be to quietly and totally drop prophecy from their curriculum. There is zero wisdom or understanding there. They have not warned the world. They have simply cried wolf to promote their own agenda. And, it is no longer working as a growth stimulant.


Anonymous said...

How to identify a false prophet:

1. Does he live in Edmond?

DennisCDiehl said...

Add to this that "prophecy" is historized and not history prophecied, go search ye what that meaneth, and claiming to be a prophet is one of mankind's most useless endeavors.

THE reason the life of Jesus seems to be so accurately pre-dicted by the OT is that the story was backwritten using the OT material to tell a story that no one actually was an eyewitness to or knew what actually happened at any one event. EVERY bit of Jesus birth story, for example, written by Matthew is cobbled together from OT stories that, in their original context, never remotely were referring to any Jesus hundreds of years into the future. He needed a birth story, so he searched the scriptures for the tale.

It is the same for the end of life events for Jesus.

anonymous63 said...

Connie, Beautifully said.

Michael said...

Byker Bob wrote:
"The best singular activity which could be pursued by these ACOGs would be to quietly and totally drop prophecy from their curriculum."

Sure, but the problem there is that if they dropped prophecy, their raison d'etre would cease to exist. HWA's (and by extension COG's) whole basis was that they understood the keys to prophecy that nobody does else does or can, including the coming tribulation, and how to escape it, and thus it is essential to be in God's true flock and remain there faithful "to the end".

They cannot let go of prophecy...

Martha said...

Cecil! Dude! Tag me - Martha Cog - next time you start stirring up dissension among brethren! We can be Facebook friends!

Black Ops Mikey said...

Dennis, you do err, not knowing the Scripture that says, "search the Scriptures daily to see if these things can be made to sound true"!

NO2HWA said...

If anyone wants to send suggestions or their own articles about COGWA I will post them here. That offer stands for any subject that someone wants to send me.

Byker Bob said...

Michael, if they lose their raison d'etre, then they can do as I've advised in my blog contributions for many years: If they really wish to be of service to God and man, they should disband!

False prophecy is not a blessing to mankind. It's not a warning. It's a pox on humanity that rots peoples' souls!


nck said...


The COG CAN do without prophecy. They could change their particular niche understanding/desire about "Jesus returning shortly" into better works serving mankind instead of an "unprofessional view" on international relations and speculation as to how certain scenarios might work out in light of that particular desire.

Drop the speculation. Start living like Jesus could return any night and start planning like it might last another 2000 years for reasons unbeknown to man.

Just one tip for starters.

I will offer my services as "the next Ra(i)der" for all strategic and marketing advice. We could make this working. 90 % of what Armstrong predicted has come to pass. I would say a 100% came to pass. He also predicted after his death no viable leader would arise and wolves could destroy the edifice he built. So that would be a great basis to start with.

And please stop denying Armstrong predicted nothing. The first companies started injecting microchips in employees last month. This is exactly the "conspiracy crap" I was raised in but somehow ALL is happening today. They are even planning settling humans om mars. I spoke to real investment opportunities concerning just that the other day. The very purpose of man. According to HWA.


Anonymous said...

man oh man...if there was ever an improperly named organization, "asbereansdid" sure takes the cake!

I thought I'd find some genuine biblical teaching, based on the name.....boy was I surprised!

Black Ops Mikey said...

The ACoGs cannot exist without prophecy: Without British Israelism, church eras, Revelation explained somewhat at last, the Book of Daniel defining future history, the Great Tribulation, the Place of Safety, the millennium, Great White Thrown Judgment, the Cult of Herbert Armstrong Mafia would cease to exist.

However, at the same time, many of the Armstrongist cult sects, such as the CGI are pretending to move away from Herbert Armstrong (while still embracing GTA), to distance themselves from the obvious downside of Armstrongist thinking. This is a rebranding, much like "New Blue Cheer!" -- products which suddenly have new ingredients and upgrades that suddenly and instantly make the product viable, because, darn it all, the old one JUST WASN'T SELLING!

The Journal has taken this concept to new heights by excoriating Herbert Armstrong and his 'eccentricities' with excoriating interviews with former luminaries of the WCG. This was started in a most obvious way in the David Havir article about servant leadership where he gave a most painful rendition of Herbert Armstrong's lack of it.

No, it's still smoke and mirrors, and no much how you dress it up and put lipstick on the pig, it's still a porker and there's not much future in putting it on a diet.

The best anyone could do is abandon the whole scene as a useless experiment into bizarre kook cult thinking and move on.

Anonymous said...

In reply to anon 1:09, if anyone writes an article about COGWA out come the bitter pro United commentators. Go grab your popcorn and cry into your Pepsi whilst they play their audiences for poor poor United, poor hard done by ucg versus the Texan bullies of cogwa. I'm weeping already.
Who believes your rubbish whitened sepulchres remark ? well at least when cogwa say they believe in this or that their brethren tend to believe them in comparison to president Victor Kubic who turned his Pentecost 2016 sermon into a farce.
Ucg are bitter and love to wallow in bitter self pity.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:51, it sounds like you're the bitter one who chooses to ignore the facts about the cogwads causing division amongst the brethren. Altho I don't agree with Malm much, his article about the cogwads split contains more fact than not. The cogwads plot has been revealed and documented many times, including the role mighty Cecil played in causing dissension and Franks use of ucg money and resources to orchestrate the split. Many agree with the whited sepulchre comment I'm sure; its true.

Anonymous said...

Ha! I'm not bitter at all.only power people and their cronies are extremely bitter.It has been widely been a PR disaster that medium ranking ucg power people have repeatedly took to social media since 2010 and repeatedly let the cat out of the bag and made complete laughing stock of themselves. They fail to realize many in cogwa are there because they found new ucg odd. I love cogwa, it is not perfect but it has been a joy to get away from the United bullies. Happy days.

Jim Baldwin said...

Our editor invited article suggestions.
Then BB said "false prophecies are not a blessing to mankind".

What about the false prophecy in Matthew 24:34 concerning the present generation that Jesus was speaking to? The NCV uses "while the people of this time are still living". In the New American Bible note perhaps the verse means to Matthew "the generation to which he and his community belonged". Do a word study on "generation".

Also consider the immanency statements in the Acts. Acquire a copy of "Luke and Last Things" by A.J. Mattill Jr. (I found mine at a college book sale). There are copies available from book search services.

The prophecy in Matthew has not been fulfilled in spite of waiting for two millenia. Many Christians have moved on to focus on the the resurrection since Christ is a no-show.

The COG came about from the false prophecies of one William Miller in the early 1820s. He set a date of 1844 for the return of Christ. That failed as did all the others. Too bad I was not aware of the Millerite fiasco. I might have avoided Herbert Armstrong.

Jim Baldwin