Saturday, July 1, 2017

Jim O'Brien, COG Cincinnati Demands Respect



It is amazing to read the tripe that COG ministers write about all of the time. With people struggling to make ends meet, to people dealing with drugs, homelessness, continued racism, outright hatred, and the myriad of other life issues, the ministry of the COG, being the privileged elite and spiritually lazy ministers of the Church of God that they are, write about useless crap that has no relevance to anyone's life.

Jim O'Brien of the Church of God Cincinnati, writes about one of the Church of God's major pet doctrines, how people dress.  Jesus never worried about the dress of those he touched but COG ministers do. They are more worried about wrinkles or the type of clothing that people wear rather than they are about lying fools that have self-appointed themselves as COG prophets and leaders. The length of a skirt or a pair of blue jeans is more offensive than abusive leaders like Flurry who have driven members to suicide and ripped generations of families apart.  They don't care that Dave Pack is bleeding his members dry, both financially and spiritually with his endless consciousness-streaming of utter bullshit.  Nope, it is more important that members be admonished over some wrinkled clothing.

O'Brien also talks about "lack of respect" in society today but failed to talk about the lack of respect that many Church of God ministers have towards their members.  The ground is literally littered with abused and disrespected Church of God members and ex-members who have suffered because of these fools for 80 some years.

Culture of Disrespect
Laura Ingalls Wilder is famous for her series of books, "Little House on the Prairie," depicting her childhood in pioneer America. One of the memorable experiences of life is being snuggled between our kids-and later grandkids-reading bedtime stories of Laura's adventures as the tiny tots hung on each colorful word.
She described moving to Missouri in a covered wagon to homestead their new land. Alone on the prairie they were running low on food so Pa had to leave Ma and the kids alone for a couple of days to forage for meat. Laura described living in the covered wagon away from any other humans. One morning Ma took their freshly washed petticoats and put them on the step of the wagon to be ironed.
There was no other explanation, but I was left wondering why little girls on the prairie needed to dress in petticoats and I could only imagine what it must take to iron them when there was no electricity.
The kids asked, "Why would they iron their clothes when no one else was around?" Donna, always the font of wisdom, responded, "They were not trying to impress anyone, respect is the culture of civilized people."
O'Brien then uses this as an example of why people need to dress well in church.  Because Jesus (supposedly) neatly folded up his body wrappings before leaving the tomb, COG members need to dress properly and keep the wrinkles away.
An often-overlooked act of Jesus occurred during the minutes after He was resurrected. When the stone was rolled away the Gospel account records that the blanket was neatly folded. It's remarkable that Jesus would take the time to fold the blanket during such a momentous event.
At times I wonder what God thinks of the way some Christians dress when coming to worship Him.
In ancient Israel when the Ark of the Covenant was returned after having been lost to the gentiles for a period of time a tragic event took place. When the Ark arrived men allowed curiosity to overcome respect for the sacred. "But God struck down some of the inhabitants of Beth Shemesh, putting seventy of them to death because they looked into the ark of the Lord. (1 Samuel 6:19) These were Israelites who knew that the Ark was holy to God. You don't open the doors of the Ark anymore than you allow a man to walk into the women's restroom-but then America has forgotten that the body is sacred.
Later when the Ark was being transferred to Jerusalem, "Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled. Then the anger of the Lord was aroused against Uzzah, and God struck him there for his error; and he died there by the ark of God. (2 Samuel 6:6-7)
How can a person read these accounts without concluding that respect for sacred things is a core part of Christianity?
When have most of the COG leaders ever respected members?  How can COG leaders talk about respect for "sacred things" when they know nothing about the man they claim to follow or to even act like him.  It is more important to talk about Moses and the law than it is to talk about Jesus, grace, and mercy.
Compare that with the recent news story of a comedienne holding an image of the severed head of the President of the United States. Is tolerance for such barbaric antics the mark of a civilized people?
Nothing has done more to civilize mankind than the values of the Bible. Few things have done more to undermine civilization than the disrespect encouraged by the popular media.
Until next time,
Jim O'Brien

29 comments:

Byker Bob said...

I should think that much of this would depend on the attitude behind the clothing. If something is all you have available to wear, or you have no resources to wash, let alone iron, you're probably already embarrassed. On the other hand, if you take a mean-spirited attitude, dress to shock, and crash an event where there is a standard for attire (I know! I'm guilty of this myself, and it seemed fun at the time), that would be mean spirited, and unChristian. But, I don't believe ACOG members deliberately do this, rather, the ministers/fashion police are just plain paranoid about anything that is new or different (Annoys them personally).

Obsessive-compulsive control is a concept that must be understood in order to adequately fathom Armstrongism. "Surfer" hair styles were verboten in the '60s, and nothing has been learned over the past 5 decades, because apparently shaved heads epitomize the carnal, worldly look of today. Whatever is currently fashionable, and would make you blend to slip through a crowd like Jesus, is carnal, evil, and forbidden in the ACOGs.

BB

anonymous63 said...

Should everyone bring an iron with them and WORK on the Sabbath to remove all those "oops, I sat down" wrinkles that are inevitable? It didn't ever matter how nice and wrinkle free your clothes were when you put them on, travel time in the car made short work of all efforts to be "spotless and without blemish". Maybe everybody should stand through services too.

I would be so bold as to hazard a guess that this is one of the many reasons why people walk away and don't come back. Being shamed continually and told you are nothing but a worthless piece of garbage that isn't gonna "make it" is enough to make anybody quit!

When a parent treats a child like this it is called abuse. As it should be. That kind of behavior is part and parcel of what "provokes children to wrath". When will these paternalistic narcissists learn to encourage and nurture?

Anonymous said...

But these same ministers don't respect members rights, such as the right to be free from abuse, free from deception, and the right to be left alone (no meddling busybodies). But wait, according to these ministers, only ministers have rights, with members only having privileges which the ministers give and take back at whim.
Who is it that truly lacks respect?

1 Peter 2:1 said...

I never got to attend WCG because after the first and only meeting with the local minister, he told me if all I had to wear was blue jeans and t-shirts then I wasn't allowed to attend. So now I attend Advent Christian Church and they don't judge me because I wear jeans to church.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like Jim o' brien is techy over something. Maybe the whole ucg cogwa split left him out in the cold. He jumped ship too early and has been more or less forgotten.

Anonymous said...

Read your Bible, suit and ties are commanded to be worn. The color blue is evil, such as in blue jeans. Actually none of it is true. Perhaps everyone should wear robes and sandals.

Anonymous said...

5.13 AM
When you go to church, you come before God, hence you don't come to church dressed like a bum. The homeless/wino/poor student/bum look does not belong at church services. If you won't respect humans, at least show some respect for your creator.

Anonymous said...

Hi all. This is Dave Pack.
I've dropped by to remind my members to never retire, and keep working until they drop dead. I've set a shining example myself. I will never stop robbing blind all my members till I drop dead from old age.
Bye all.

Lisa Williams said...

in Jim's defense, i would say that a majority of the members tends be like this, jim has been my minister for a number of years, although i myself have been out of the cog for about 4years now. and the one thing that i can say about jim is that he is a most accepting person,and i know this because i myself have not dressed properly at times, only thing i can say is meet him and you'll see,if i were to ever return,jim would be my minister again, he's not like flurry or pack or any of those other crazy's

Connie Schmidt said...

Certainly church does not need to be a fashion show or "power suit" display.

On the other hand, being very slovenly can be a sign of lack of self respect.

Jim O'Brien has tried very hard to be progressive, kind and forward thinking. I count him as a decent guy.

DPR567 said...

You have such a "christian" attitude! Your God must be a real arse hole to judge someone who perhaps lives on a limited budget and can't afford fancy clothes! I've got your back 5:13!

Byker Bob said...

Again: Mala in se (bad because all humans throughout history have considered the act inherently evil); Mala prohibita (bad soley because a rule was made making the act illegal).

The only reason wearing a nice pair of designer or cowboy jeans and sport shirt to church is wrong in an ACOG is that years ago, HWA defined how to "appear before God" with the proper respect in an Armstrong Church of God. They consider him to be a quasi-Biblical figure (God's Apostle), so even though no mention of these things are made in the Bible, ACOG ministers revere it as part of the "truths once delivered".

It is ridiculous! God answers the prayers that I pray first thing in the morning while in my underwear. He looks at the heart (Adam and Eve were nudists until they sinned). God has also answered prayers I've prayed while riding my motorcycle attired in such a way that is very off-putting to most civilized humans. Again, He looks at the heart.

For major corporations: Business attire is suit and tie. Business casual is nice slacks and perhaps polo shirt. Total casual goes to jeans, or shorts and T-shirt or tank top. And then, there is just plain ratty, off the scale. Biker or homeless chic. The problem is, the ACOGs are intolerant of anything except the formal business attire. Ministers begin to get antsy over nice business casual, which really shows no disrespect because it's totally presentable. I bet they probably still insist on women wearing stockings, even though most of us have not seen them in the general public for decades. Unsightly, stereotyping 1940s attire from the approved category is deemed as acceptable, while current business casual, or casual are not. In the words of Mr. Spock, " This is illogical, Captain."

BB

anonymous63 said...

Connie Schmidt said,
"On the other hand, being very slovenly can be a sign of lack of self respect."

But, but, we are not supposed to have any thoughts of 'self'. We are supposed to know that we are nothing, worthless, sinful and no good. That's the message.

Ties in with the ministers needing to learn to encourage and nurture. Someone who has no self respect has been torn down to the very lowest place and needs to be picked up, not stomped on. How are these ministers going to do in the "kingdom" with people who have been through the hell and horror of "the worst time ever"? Are they going to stand there on their high and mighty and tell these folks, who need to have wounds (mental and spiritual) bound up that they better put on their best, when the 'place' they are 'at' IS their best? Maybe they could go practice in Syria or in a refuge camp. Trouble is, that many of them are so out of touch with the real world that they do not see there are many now that come from such a type of place, only their circumstances don't make the news.

A little walking in someone else's shoes might be in order. Is that why there will be those that go through the tribulation, in part to understand and be "humbled"? I don't know. Perhaps.

6:48 AM
Oh yes, robes and sandals! But the men MUST wear a tie!

RSK said...

Shouldnt people just show up in the natural state then? The ButtNekkid Church of God!

Anonymous said...

BB
Unlike yourself, I look primarily at what God has created. Herb is not there, in my calculations. If invited to meet a head of state, I would dress formally to show my respect. Likewise people show up appropriately at funerals. Even criminals dress up in suites to bid their fellow criminals farewell. Likewise, one should dress up in what is considered quality in that culture when coming to church. This is all universal, so obviously part of Gods creation.

RSK said...

The ButtNekkid Church of God! A little flock entering through the narrow way! Look upon what GOD has created, not the coverings of Original Sin as popularized by THE WORRRRRRRRRLD, brethren!

RSK said...

The ButtNekkid Church of God: Recapturing true values GOD'S WAY!

Anonymous said...

RSK
We need translators to understand both you and Nck. Or are you both the same person?

Ronco said...

Better jeans and a T-shirt clothing a humble sort than a whitewashed tomb housing a rotted corpse I would say...

True Bread said...

the ultimate status symbol..the necktie...

Google the Freemason's Cable Tow....

Byker Bob said...

Cool, if that works for you, 2:25. Personally, if I were invited to meet a head of state, I'd decline. I generally decline funerals, and weddings, too.

This is all subjective, anyway. Many churches today allow casual wear, and have contemporary music. It'd probably be considered offensive or elitist if one over-dressed for their services.

My problem with the ACOGs is that they practically make this a salvation issue. If I had to go to a church like that, I'd have lentils, deviled eggs and beer for dinner every Friday night, and make it a point to sit by the minister and his family during services. That might even make it so that Dave Pack saw the wisdom in allowing his members to go to the restroom during services! LOL! Oh well, bet I'd get suspended for laughing!

BB

Byker Bob said...

Cool, if that works for you, 2:25. Personally, if I were invited to meet a head of state, I'd decline. I generally decline funerals, and weddings, too.

This is all subjective, anyway. Many churches today allow casual wear, and have contemporary music. It'd probably be considered offensive or elitist if one over-dressed for their services.

My problem with the ACOGs is that they practically make this a salvation issue. If I had to go to a church like that, I'd have lentils, deviled eggs and beer for dinner every Friday night, and make it a point to sit by the minister and his family during services. That might even make it so that Dave Pack saw the wisdom in allowing his members to go to the restroom during services! LOL! Oh well, bet I'd get suspended for laughing!

BB

Anonymous said...

Ronco
True but both are possible. Christ was humble AND dressed quality. If you look at Gods creation, it is quality. God is a God of quality. One does not find poorly designed plants and animals.

RSK said...

"ButtNekkid" = "butt naked".

nck said...

"Cool, if that works for you, 2:25. Personally, if I were invited to meet a head of state, I'd decline"


But you would send in the required speech in order to receive the Nobel prize, not?

What is it about BOB's, refusing to show up for meeting heads of state?

nck

Anonymous said...

Whatever happened to a christians life being about a christians character and not their clothes. Petty, small minded and quite pathetic springs to mind.

RSK said...

Well, there was HWA strutting around i his handmade suits in 1984 while many members of the congregation I was in were still wearing leisure suits. :)

Hoss said...

When the stone was rolled away the Gospel account records that the blanket was neatly folded. It's remarkable that Jesus would take the time to fold the blanket during such a momentous event.

Maybe one of the angels folded it.

nck said...

12:21

I have no time today to look up the sequence of events.
Isn't there some intermediairy period between the Roman observations and the risen Jesus meeting Mary etc.

My guess is the women folded the clothes. Of course they would, even if he had already left the scene and they would remain in the garden in awe. No clothes should be lying around. At least my Mary would interpret scripture that way.

nck (with the wrinkled socks)