Reposting Dennis comment from the LCG-"We Are Not Wishy Washy" post.
- That "Only True Church" thing has been the bane of the Churches of God as has "Government from the top down." The New Testament is a Testament to two true churches of God. The Jewish Christian one under Peter, James and John and the Gentile Pauline Church. The Jewish Christian interpretation is what we find in the COG except they try to make Paul one of them too which he isn't and fought hard against. The Gentile Pauline version is just about everything else in all their forms. Galatians 1-2 is a Pauline rant against the Jerusalem Apostles and an authentic letter of Paul. The Book of James is a Jewish Christian rant against Paul's concept of grace with no works found in Paul's also authentic Book of Romans.
The letters to the Seven Churches in Revelation were NEVER conceived as being types of authentic Churches of God 2000 years into the future. "Behold I come quickly" and "To show things which must shortly come to pass" for them back then indicate the failure of Revelation as a prophecy. It's a Jewish Book written to encourage Jewish Christians caught in the fall of Jerusalem . It failed to deliver and the Romans won. No Jesus returned to save them and it was not meant to extend one hour past the fall of the city and destruction of the Temple. Fundamentalist churches have spent the last 200 years making Revelation mean what it never meant and does not mean.
Without the Book of Revelation the Churches of God would have no message and certainly no motivator like it to join them. Fear sells and it's all made up. Nothing in the Book of Revelation will come to pass as speculated. It was a second Daniel which was written to encourage the Jews to hang in there in the 160's BCE and they lost in the same way.to the Romans.
I know the pull and power of the Book of Revelation as well as anyone . It barely made the cut into the New Testament Canon. But clearly its time passed and those who read it so dearly in the details will dismiss the opening and closing verses which clearly indicate something had gone terribly wrong with it being inspired or how it all will be. LIke the Apostle Paul, who after years of "soon" had to face the final curtain and wish everyone good luck on their own journey, the Book of Revelation was the swan song of the dying Jewish Church.
On top of that, no human beings know the future . It is not all planned out and all one has to do is read Art Mokarrow's. "God's Puzzle Solved" for the solution to this puzzle. There is no puzzle that needs solving . That makes Bible God a Trickster who is more interested in playing games than informing humans of whatever one thinks their incredible human potential is.
It doesn't matter where you go to church or even if you do. There is a seat for every butt and a style for every personality. That's why we have so many denominations and while I realize no one ever says they know they attend the false church, the fight over who is the true church is equally as ludicrous and ill informed.
59 comments:
Dennis writes: "for them back then indicate the failure of Revelation as a prophecy."
What utter nonsense spewed by someone still seeing everything, including all of scripture through his HWA stained glasses....no telling how much damage HWA did to Dennis but from my perspective it is huge...just because HWA was a complete idiot and false prophet doesn't mean there is NO Creator or that scripture is incorrect...how can you possiblt deny the prophecies in Rev 13 coming true..?? It's so simple to see:
1. Seven heads Ten horns: G7, Club of Rome
2. King of the North (7 heads/10 horns): USA/EU/NATO/Israel
3. King of the South: Islamic nations (Levant)
4. Kings of the East:Russia/China/Iran BRICS (Rev 16:12)
You may disagree with scripture but you can watch the above on the nightly news...it is what it is....click on my name to take you to all of my videos on prophecy...I don't give a flying flip what that little nerd nck thinks or says.
Rave on, Rasputin! Just another self- promoting false prophet who thinks he's got Revelation all figured out! We need to give you a Bob Thiel style drubbing! "True Bread", indeed! More like ergot-poison.
BB
Calling the book of Revelation 'made up' is living dangerously. God threatens anyone who adds or subtracts from that book (which includes discrediting the book) with eternal death. Perhaps Dennis in his old age feels that he has nothing to lose, but God can still take revenge in many different ways.
It's sometimes wise to keep ones mouth shut.
True Bread , you're stale. HWA/WCG had and has NOTHING to seeing the Bible through their eyes. Quite the opposite. WCG did NO Biblical damage to me Biblically or theologically any more than my upbringing in the Dutch Reformed Church did. It provided me with another view that , when young and interested in WCG theology, seemed correct. Both the Dutch Reformed experience and the WCG experience made me know exactly what the Bible said and provided the platform for questioning its accuracy, errancy and now failed prophecies both Old and New Testament.
You can choose to read your Bible as you would the evening news. You can see God trying to get our attention in all the earthly weather. You can compare the vagaries of "prophecy" with any event you wish. After all we just went through proving why Belgium is the Tribe of Asher because God predicted the pastries it would predict to give us a clear understanding of His mind. (That's a joke). If you can get that out of the Bible and update it to that ridiculous degree you can come up with anything.
My views and conclusions drawn have absolutely nothing to do with seeing anything through the eyes of HWA as a minister or ministurd depending on your preference. I denounce it all but it provided me with the necessary understanding of what the Bible said so I could think it through critically can grow up.
You're view of me True Bread, is stale.
Sometimes it's more wise and enlightening to speak up rather than shut up. It was the author of Revelation, not God , who threatened those who would add or subtract from the prophecy. It just so happens that threat , after 2000 years the promises in the book itself of it being written to "show things which must shortly come to pass" and ends with "behold I come quickly" has faded. Why so many skip over this inconvenient truth is beyond me. Even the pseudopigrapic book of Peter comes along to market hose who question such things back in the day after nothing comes to pass as predicted and certainly not shortly, out as "scoffers" when they simply are notices of reality. "Peter" then goes on to apologize for the failure of "soon" by claiming that a day with God is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. We were not informed when the original prophecies were made that God thought like this. It comes only after it fails and rather than say "it failed", the author blames the followers rather than the prophecy being simply wrong. Even Paul had to learn the hard way he was wrong about all his "soon" and simply died reminding everyone that he fought a good fight and he won...bye by now.
Address the issues in my comment, which by the way , I made awhile back in the comments section. Gary has chosen to reproduce the comment here so seeing it in this context was surprise to me as well. Nonetheless, it is so.
And if I was not clear already, being a former minister in WCG has nothing to do with how I think. I think for myself and what I feel , through study and critical thinking , is true for me. I realize everyone here believes they think critically and carefully about scripture and not one of those here believes they are in the false church. It's why few ever really appreciate a new perspective or actually do the homework it might take to reach a more accurate view or understanding of how things really are and not what they wish them to be. . I also realize the price of coming to new and better conclusions about the origin of scriptures, biblical errancy issues and the politics obvious to most theologians between the Jewish Jameson Church and the Gentile Pauline version can be too high to pursue.
"Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly to wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads or you shall learn nothing."
Thomas Huxley
True Bread.
I did not comment.
Yet you insist that you do not care about my comment.
You say HWA is a fraud.
Yet you give 5 examples filtered through HWA's lense.
You are either delusional or need to expound a little what horrifies you most about my assesment of Armstrongism. To read something what I did not wrote is simply make believe. You make me feel like God. Disappointed!
Nck
By the way True Bread. The term BRICS was coined by a Morgan Stanley analyst in 2006 I believe.
They will be astonished by your assesment that as their chairman stated: They are indeed doing the Work of God.
Nice.
That is my entire premiss on Banned.
Thank you.
Nck
Revelation is cool. But, what a lot of "teachers" don't realize is that God is an "if you do this, then I will do that" type of Father. He has held back from imposing the ultimate penalty in notable cases, even if He began to see partial obedience, or sufficient numbers of quality people for whose sake He would delay destruction. All of the math, and the theories, and formulas are of no value if God is looking for specific conditions to trigger the end rather than adhering to a specific timeline that He set millennia ago.
And, that is why the types of ministries that have already judged and condemned mankind, and who base their churches primarily on their understanding of the events of Revelation, always and without exception fail! When they fail, because they emphasized the end, and the tribulation, and didn't concentrate on the joy of life, developing talents, Christlike living and family values, the members are left empty, especially if the threat of the tribulation was used to manipulate and exploit them.
We can automatically know in advance that anyone who claims to understand prophecy and even vaguely or loosely links it to any timeline will be one thing, and one thing only ~ wrong!
BB
If there is a God and he wanted us to know the future, it would seem logical that he would make it clear to us what will happen in the future. What we have however is a mish-mash of vague writings in a book put together centuries ago by who knows who. In a nut shell, God, (if he exists) would make prophecy so clear that it would not be open to interpretation by anyone. You would think!
Didnt go well for the last guy who tried this....
The European Union has a lot more than 10 nations in it. Not ten horns. The Club of Rome is a think tank. https://www.clubofrome.org/about-us/
Mat 15:8 'THESE PEOPLE DRAW NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH, AND HONOR ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME.
Mat 15:9 AND IN VAIN THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.' "
It does matter to God how we worship him.
I thought Banned is a site where it's safe to express dissenting viewpoints. So even though I disagree with True Breads 4 points, I disagree with BBs abusive response.
BB should consider the example of Dennis's diplomatic reasoned responses to disagreement.
You say, The letters to the Seven Churches in Revelation were NEVER conceived as being types of authentic Churches of God 2000 years in the future."
Can't the messages to these churches have more than one meaning? Beyond the message to the churches in John's day, they could be prophetic messages to the church in different time periods? For instance, the church in Ephesus could describe the church from 30-100
AD where the second generation of Christians grew lax. The church age of Smyrna, 100-313 was a time of Roman persecution. Pergamum, from 313-600 could refer to the church "thoroughly married" with the emperor to become the state religion. etc. The church in Philadelphia was promised (1648-1900) could refer to the church with its great missionary outreach. This church is promised deliverance from the Great Tribulation. I might also suggest that you read into these passages that even today some church are Philadelphian, others are Ephesian. The explanation doesn't have to be an either or choice. I have asked people, What would Jesus write about your church today? What if he wrote a personal letter to you, specifically, what would he have to say?
We should also ask, "How did those in John's day, in his culture and language understand these words?" For instance, love was not understood to be a noun, a feeling of affection. Rather it was a verb, an action. To love neighbor or for husbands to love their wives meant to treat them in a loving way, even if it has to be done in spite of your feelings towards them. What did "shortly come to pass" mean in John's day? I think it meant that once the day of fulfillment comes, there will be no delay in its execution. Once burnt by HWA, some develop a bias against all religion. Others jump into another cult. Some realize that just because HWA was wrong does not mean that true Christianity is wrong. He was not a representative of true Christianity. My wife is afraid of dogs because she was bit by one as a child. But, that does not mean that all dogs are dangerous. If we want to find reasons to reject Christianity, we can easily find them. If we want to find reasons to accept cultic teachings, we can find them also, as we all have experienced.
"The New Testament is a Testament to two true churches of God. The Jewish Christian one under Peter, James and John and the Gentile Pauline Church."
pure hogwash...anyone that thinks Paul taught contrary to the other apostles simply does not understand....but folks here are so determined to discredit anything taught by HWA that they will toss the bible out too.
Anonymous 811, you will convince nobody on here of that. Paul wrote one of the most intricate essays in the bible at Romans 9 to 11, in which he shows that the only access gentiles have to salvation is through being grafted into Israel. Israel was being expanded to include gentiles and new covenant was made with this expanded Israel, based on the law of love, of which we are given 10 important examples.
It is my understanding that there was ONE church, but those with a Jewish background could continue to observe their Jewish customs and identity, but it was not imposed upon the Gentile world as HWA tried to do. Paul, to the end of his life, considered himself a Jew, a Pharisee, but one who did accept Jesus as the Messiah. He continued to be welcomed into the Synagogues to "reason with them from the Scriptures." No, WCG members, his going into the synagogues to preach is not "proof" that the New Testament church observed the Sabbath. Nor is the expression that he wants to be in Jerusalem for Pentecost "prove" that Gentiles observed the Holy Days. When God gave Moses the law, it was, "Say to the Israelites." Think about it, were those living in China and elsewhere required to keep the Law of Moses and to go to Jerusalem three times a year? It is my understanding that no one before Moses and no one after Pentecost was required to keep the law of Moses.
Different strokes for different folks. The radically misnamed "True Bread" is hyping his own broadcast. Another person whom we do not know has suddenly burst on the scene to teach. He needs to be tuned up. It's what we do here.
BB
"new covenant was made with this expanded Israel, based on the law of love, of which we are given 10 important examples"
= the church ?
nck
Dennis,
I want to let you know I just returned home from attending a false church with my wife. To my knowledge, I have never attended the true one, because there is no such thing.
The preacher prayed long and hard for the people of Houston, and for God to intervene with the devastation being done in Florida by Irma. There was a lot of "please show mercy and love to the people of Florida". I came home, turned on the TV, and I see the storm still barreling toward Naples in full fury.
Is God using this storm, or is He responsible for it in any way?? I've always been so confused about the relationship between Mother Nature and our loving Heavenly Father. Do they argue a lot about weather patterns? Is Mother Nature part of the Trinity? If not, maybe that's why she is pissed.
I am always amazed at how we ask God to stop a storm for which He is supposedly responsible for starting. Thankfully, storms always do stop, but only after they burn out having caused widespread destruction. No super special intervention that I have ever witnessed.
Is it wrong to ask God to stop a storm that he is responsible for starting? And does He have the power to make it stop? Maybe He is trying to wake up certain people (at the expense of others) and uses these catastrophes to bring our nation to repentance and unity. Yeah, that's the ticket! It's difficult to understand the purpose of the weather, until we recognize there is really no "purpose". We just have to deal with natural events!
Not that difficult to comprehend, until we put God in the mix.
Byker Bob,
I spoke with my brother Paul, about your experiences, and he asked me to say "hi" and pass along his best wishes. He remembers you at "The Dells" as well as in Pasadena, and your helping with the old Plymouth. Wondering if that was around 1975?
Regarding SEP, and being a part of our dorm group, do you remember Walter? Two of the older boys put broken glass in his bed because he embarrassed them on the archery range. Do you remember the incident on the archery range, or the broken glass in the bed? I am still angry with the guy who ran the archery range for beating Walter. I completely in great detail remember his face and name. I begged him not to hit Walter, but he showed me who was in charge.
When we discovered who put the glass in Walter's bed, I went a bit insane, and broke a paddle on one of the boy's butts. Not an admission I am proud to make. Far too much corporal punishment at SEP. Every dorm monitor had a paddle, and we were encouraged to use them. If I ever hit you with a paddle, I apologize. Young people in their twenties should not be whipping anybody. It would be criminal today, and should be.
I wonder if the guilty boys went on to become ministers in WCG? I wanted to have them arrested. Walter was not injured. He saw the glass before getting into bed.
I barely remember the shaving cream wars. Innocent fun. Hope you had some fun that summer at Pelican Lake in Orr. Was it six weeks? Yikes, way too long in that environment.
I understand your situation, and will not divulge your identity.
In "discovering truth", HWA adapted many heresies, some bizarre extrabiblical theories, a false history presented by Alexander Hislop, and he used picked and chosen elements of the Old Covenant through which to filter the entire New Covenant. He also faked the gifts of healing, and prophecy. Most of his followers gave up on faking healing sometime during the late '70s or early '80s. It would be nice if one day, it finally dawned on them that they were also faking the gift of prophecy. Perhaps we are witnessing such a ridiculous proliferation of Armstrong-based "prophets" and "prophecy" today as the final nails in that coffin.
I finally got tired of just seeing proof-text quotes from Josephus, Eusebius, the Antenicene Fathers. I took the time to read all of them that I could find. It is no secret that HWA/WCG presented blatantly false and fabricated histories to add some credibility to his work. I was first made aware of the importance of studying these things for myself through the postings of Jared Olar, a history major who used to post on these WCG related sites. Probably the most important thing an Armstrongite could do is to read widely for yourself. Don't be pacified and fooled by out of context "proof texts". Dig deeper! Once you know that someone was a master manipulator, you need to evaluate everything he has ever written or stated from the perspective of "Is this just another one of his manipulations?"
BB
Canada has 10 provinces, surely it must be the beast.
Once you know that someone was a master manipulator, ...
Once you know that, you should turn off their TV stations, cancel your subscription to their newspapers, and stop going to their web sites. But the manipulator who wrote that and tells other people to read widely won't follow his own advice.
One of the truths that has become increasingly clear to me is that throughout the 4.5 billion years planet Earth has existed, God has used orderly processes controlled by natural laws to do His creating. That is what evolution is. Science has given us an incredible look into the specifics of Genesis I. But, the ACOGs and other literalists miss out, attempting to make fact out of the literary symbolism which was crafted so that early farmers and shepherds might understand.
And, they do this with "the end" as well. They speculate on the book known as Revelation, inserting themselves and many mysterious events into it along the way. I'm convinced that the best insights we can obtain into the end are obtained through the observations of science, as well. We're going to know more from the phenomena now unfolding as a result of the natural law and orderly processes which are part of the Halocene Extinction, currently in play. This has been accelerating over the past several decades, and it's even Biblical, in that man is directly responsible for the sixth mass extinction event of planet Earth!
BB
BB
"Dig deeper?" Most church members sub contracted the bibles 'prove all things' to Herb and his ministers. I suspect that today, most still do. The ministers love it this way, since it gives them undue power and influence over their steeple.
So it's hardly surprising that these sheep are being fleeced by the Dave Packmans.
Awesome, Gerald! Please give my best wishes to Paul as well! How many Paul Bronkars could there be? I've always assumed that he was the guy who won the Academy Award for coloration, and have been extremely proud of him for that.
I knew nothing of the incident at the archery range involving Walter, (was the guy who hit him Jeff B?) or the later incident involving the glass. Archery might have been one of the activities that I had asked to be excused from so that I could work with Mr. Pearce on the camp vehicles. Walter's bunk was on the other side of the dorm from us, split by the large common room that your quarters bordered on. That other side is where most of the younger campers were. I remember Walter, though. He was a well-meaning kid, but fairly vulnerable. I would imagine that he was probably considered to be one of the good kids at home in his local congregation. My opinion is that anyone who would put glass in someone's bed deserved to have a paddle broken on their butt! So glad that Walter found it and was uninjured. If he had been, I'm sure the police would have been involved.
Speaking of corporal punishment, we received so much less of it during summers at SEP than at home. That summer in Orr provided 6 weeks of respite and relief from all the stuff at home, and ended up being one of the very memorable highlights of my life. You were a great counsellor, (if there were any "swats", I don't remember them), and there were so many fun activities. Camp was a good spring board. I went back home, finished out my senior year in high school, and was then off to AC in Pasadena, and a whole new set of experiences with the cult!
Hope your life has been and continues to be pleasant!
BB
Eusebius, proof-texts, ...
Preparing for some slack time a few years back, I downloaded some Church History videos from YouTube. The presenter had a wingman, who assured us the guy was an expert, because he read Ecclesiastical History twice. As the words poured out, text references were flashed on the screen. I kept stopping the video and checking each reference, and not once did the texts appear to relate to what the speaker said.
Bob Thiel uses the indirect or seemingly unrelated reference often. For example, claiming the Bible says 'Germany will conquer the USA and make us slaves' and giving one verse in Daniel as the proof-text. Of course, the text didn't say that; in the convolution of rehashed Armstrongism, the text was just the tip of the iceberg.
On television, Gerald Flurry will do something similar, and say, and you can prove that; send for our free booklet on... And of course, classic Armstrongism was notorious for one booklet telling you to get a dozen other booklets and reprints so you can understand it. One friend said he had a problem with a point in a particular article, and the minister's solution was giving him a xerox of the same article!
No. That is replacement theology. Replacement theology is not scriptural. "And so all Israel will be saved." This is not restricted to the church.
It is because salvation is of the Jews, it is because we are part of Israel, that we still keep the festivals. And it's why Paul says in Hebrews 4 that there still remains Sabbath keeping for the people of God.
Haha. That reasoning is just as good as some of the other reasoning about the Beast. But just because we are in the grip of a juvenile inexperienced prime minister doesn't mean he is the Beast.
Nothing in the Book of Revelation will come to pass as speculated. It was a second Daniel which was written to encourage the Jews to hang in there in the 160's BCE and they lost in the same way.to the Romans.
They lost to the Romans then but they are still after their revenge today, as you would know if you listened to (the totally maligned and lied-about-by-the media) David Duke.
Correctimundo, 2:51! Attention, ACOG shoppers! It is now time to take back the Bible! Do your own research, and reach your own conclusions! Dig deeper!
BB
Most church members sub contracted the bibles 'prove all things' to Herb and his ministers.
Just like the ditto-heads who let the media propaganda machine do their thinking, analysis, and research for them. So you have fake news and fake prophecy and you end up not having a clue where you are now or where you are going.
Gordon wrote salvation is of the Jews
Yes, the mistake made by COGs is that they say God was finished with Israel, and replaced it by the Mythical True Church. While God did "divorce" Israel, they reconciled (Isa. 60). In Romans, Galatians and Ephesians, Paul explained that the Gentiles were "grafted in" to Israel.
COGs further obscure this by clinging to BI. Rather than being the "key" to unlock prophecy, BI completely distorts it.
Tyndale almost always translated ekklesia as "congregation" but the team of scholars who copied Tyndale's work to create the KJV almost always changed "congregation" to "church".
Thx Gordon.
Hoss. What you say sounds very interesting, especially this "grafting" thing.
Unfortunately I do not understand it (as of yet).
What does the Roman Catholic Church of God understand better than the Worldwide Church of God in naming their congregation? Or for better understanding, "in their understanding of the definition of what and who constitutes "the congregation" and therefore is able to attain eternal life?
The Catholic Church does certainly not recognize anybody to be part of the Body of Christ, not.
nck
Byker Bob 2:020PM
"God has used orderly processes controlled by natural laws to do His creating. That is what evolution is."
Evolution is a Myth. The complexity of one cell is beyond human imagination.
To grasp the reality of life as it has been revealed by molecular biology, we must magnify a cell a thousand million times until it is twenty kilometers in diameter and resembles a giant airship large enough to cover a great city like London or New York. What we would then see would be an object of unparalleled complexity and adaptive design. On the surface of the cell, we would see millions of openings, like the portholes of a vast space ship, opening and closing to allow a continual stream of materials to 2 flow in and out. If we were to enter one of these openings, we would find ourselves in a world of supreme technology and bewildering complexity. We would see endless highly organized corridors and conduits branching in every direction away from the perimeter of the cell, some leading to the central memory bank in the nucleus and others to assembly plants and processing units. The nucleus itself would be a vast spherical chamber more than a kilometer in diameter, resembling a geodesic dome inside of which we could see, all neatly stacked together in ordered arrays, the miles of coiled chains of the DNA molecules. A huge range of products and raw materials would shuttle along all the manifold conduits in a highly ordered fashion to and from various assembly plants in the outer regions of the cell. .
I believe what you really mean is that evolution without God is a myth. And, statistical analysis of probabilities would seem to support that.
However, the evolutionary process which I am talking about is one that is directly guided by God, somewhat like what the scientist in his greenhouse does in cultivating and breeding his prized orchids. Your discussion of the complexity of single cell organisms is interesting, and reflects intelligence, but this is not problematic in theistic evolution.
BB
If you actually believe you are monitoring my reading and viewing habits, my mail, and my internet surfing, the service you are using is giving you bogus information on someone else there 1:58. In other words, you are full of it.
BB
Nck,
Even the history buffs in COGs seem to ignore the conditions in the first century. There were a lot of man-made rules regulating Jewish/Gentile interaction. Gentiles could "assimilate" by going through ritual conversion. There were those who insisted to join "The Way" (Christianity) you must first "become Jewish" (ritual conversion).
Paul insists that's not necessary, and in Romans makes the analogy of Israel as an olive tree, with some branches (such as non-believing Jews) broken off, and "wild olives" (Gentiles) being "grafted" to the tree (Israel) by accepting Jesus as the Jewish Messiah.
Gentiles who follow "The Way" but don't go through ritual conversion may be barred from entering the Temple and some synagogues. Paul tries to reassure them that it doesn't matter, it's just because of the man-made rules.
Byker Bob 9;18 AM
"Your discussion of the complexity of single cell organisms is interesting, and reflects intelligence, but this is not problematic in theistic evolution"
Proteins can only be constructed from be existing proteins. Proteins by themselves do not make life. That is brought about by thousands of proteins working together. Look up Transcription and Translation factors. Hundreds of uniquely designed (folded) proteins that somehow (never found an explanation on the web)work in concert to create the M-RNA which leaves the nucleus to be translated into a new protein. There is nothing "natural" about this process. Watch any of the YouTube "Central Dogma" of biology to blown away. It's a bizarre process no human would ever conceive.
The comments on this IS the very reason my husband and I seldom visit this website. When we got out of that damn church back in '97 it was because of people in the church and it's spin off groups couldn't get along for anything. When you people stop being intolerant, close-minded and being outright bigots maybe you will eventually find happiness.
I agree! What God brings to the party is truly what makes evolution work.
BB
BB says:
Rave on, Rasputin! Just another self- promoting false prophet who thinks he's got Revelation all figured out! We need to give you a Bob Thiel style drubbing! "True Bread", indeed! More like ergot-poison.
BB
HAHAHHAAAAAA....!!!! now I feel like I fit in around here...I've known of that whack-job COGWriter for over a decade and have sparred with him before...please don't associate anything I do with that madman or HWA for that matter...people get pissed at me when I make simple observations with current events and scripture. As an airline pilot working on 9-11, I think I have a little credibility, and as a young child seeing HWA and GTA under the tent in Jykell Island, and having attended AC, I think I should get a little credibility in this peanut gallery.. I met Dave Pack once and asked him ONE question about the Passover...his response was "I don't think this is the right church for you Todd"....boy was he right...!!!
nck, you compared me to that freak Ellen White or whoever, so stop lying..
Dennis, sorry if you think my analysis of reality is "stale"....I've been called worse by better....
man this place is fun...!!!
True Bread, this website has people here that remind me of the asshole ministers from my days in WCG. Dennis clearly is narrow-minded and thinks his views & opinions are correct and everybody else is wrong. Nothing good ever comes from websites such as this one except it might help some get out of the ACOG nightmare. But as far as what my husband and I have observed is most, if not all, here are crying as though somebody pissed in their cereal.
Hoss,
The Catholics got their hands on Tyndale and burned him at the stake. All for using the word congregation rather than the word church for the Greek word Ekklesia. After all, how can be Catholic church be the true church if Christians are only a congregation of people. Which is the same reason that king James ordered his translators to use the word church as well. This is also the reason for the gross mistranslation of Hebrew 13.17 'obey those that have the rule over you.' It should read something like 'take heed of the example of your teachers.'
True Bread,
I should not call you what you are not.
Such comparison (probably made on another thread) might have been inspired by your inclusion of the USA in a "Beast Power" structure. That was done by the adventists EG Whites Great Controversy book also.
You have stated your credentials. And they have are quite substantial in order to be received as the next orator on this blog. A blog that is specifically dedicated to expose orators from the dark side.
The last pilot I heard quoting scripture on 9/11 hailed from the dark side as a matter of fact. But the "Jykell" Island remark absolves you from such connection at least. Although the meaning of the word Islam is to submit of course, since it was "grafted" upon a religion familiar to our former association.
Yes this place is fun and I will take a look at your website now and then to see how you tie current events into your reading of revelation.
My personal journey has led me to interpret HWA's "prophetic qualities" as completely in line with UN policy papers, like the Rockefeller "Prospect for America" vision.
Therefore it is no surprise to me if anyone is able to see "a masterplan being executed for the peoples of this earth."
My personal profession is to know far in advance and way before yourself, what color of shirt you will buy, what car will be of your liking as can be derived from your zip code and what other tastes you might have acquired in the "pursuit of happiness" before you are even aware of it. So you're line of thinking is not alien to my pursuits.
nck
Hoss,
I will ponder that "grafting" analogy.
It seems that in the art of "grafting" the new branch will bear the best quality fruit while feeding through the stronger roots and mature trunk. There is a definite connection not a breach.
nck
TB asked "please don't associate anything I do with that madman..."
Ditto
Mean Jean
Just one example, many people have been robbed of their life savings by Dave Packs 'common' doctrine. Many of his followers will lose their homes because they were pressured to take a mortgage in their homes, and give the money to Dave.
You mock these victims with your 'somebody pissing in your cereal' comment. It is also cruel.
You are a good example of why the early church forbade woman ministers, and why woman were not allowed to assess other women in womans club.
Don't quit your day job.
2.07 PM
You are wasting your time reasoning with BB. Years of wild living has mentally weakened him, deriving him of the ability to stray from the warmth of the crowd. He believes whatever is the flavour of the month in popular culture.
I spent years debating with people like him in the lunch room at work. You never get anywhere.
Annon 223
Since 2011 - the 400th anniversary of the KJV - there has been more appreciation of Tyndale's work. I saw a BBC docu-drama that was mostly focused on Tyndale vs Sir Thomas Moore. A little less genteel than The Man For All Seasons, with Moore writing of Tyndale's work, My hands are covered with shit.
Nck, Paul's words are interpreted a different way by the COGs, as was evident in a Bob Thiel sermon I heard recently... roots and branches everywhere...
Maybe that one lady will show up next to tell us wistfully of being joined to Baalpeor...
Snort! (11:10). I doubt very seriously that it was your lunchroom colleagues' mental weakness that prevented you from "getting anywhere" with them in debate. But, unlike yourself, I'm not going to presume to know you, someone whom I've actually never met, to the point of being able to develop an accurate profile and to pass judgment.
BB
"deriving (sic) him of the ability to stray from the warmth of the crowd." Crazy, baby! That just derives me crazy!
Flavour. Ah! God save the queen!
"I spent years debating with people like him in the lunch room at work. You never get anywhere." Ah, slow learner, are we? Or, maybe just totally uncool, not an alpha male, and unable to educate others from their mindsets.
nck said:
My personal profession is to know far in advance and way before yourself, what color of shirt you will buy, what car will be of your liking as can be derived from your zip code and what other tastes you might have acquired in the "pursuit of happiness" before you are even aware of it. So you're line of thinking is not alien to my pursuits.
Really...??? That's interesting as I have a four year degree in Marketing from a major university, and have studied it most of my life...
keep the faith...
We use demographics and psychographics in targeted printing and mass-mailing operations. The metrics of all of this have become quantified into more of a science since the days of taking Economics in which we were required to read Vance Packard's "The Waste Makers", and "The Hidden Persuaders".
To me, media is all just ink on paper. Og Mandino notwithstanding, I could do without the manipulativeness of it all, especially as it relates to marketing religion. HWA's experience in advertising was one of the major ingredients which made Armstrongism so slick and bogus. As I deposit most of the contents of my mailbox directly in the trash can each day on my way to the front door, I generally take a deep breath and observe a moment of silence for the little guys who operate the equipment which produces junk media, because in so doing, they were able to earn the money which puts food on the family table. That is perhaps the one good aspect of the process.
BB
True Bread
I like that.
I will recommend "Superforecasting" By Philip E. Tetlock to give you an idea.
The trick is to be flexible in your scenario's and adapt as soon as new data becomes available. Sometimes a degree makes one less flexible than the next average Joe predicting a loss for Hillary.
The Houston floodings are a disaster. On the other hand a fairly accurate "prediction" can be made on how many of what type of car will replace that particular damage by assessing the available data.
For the larger cycles Mr Market "predicts" 9 months in advance. Although it is subject to the herd mentality. (Epsilon Theory)
I heard accusation that Western civilisation is based upon the bible and therefore subject to linear thought. That civilisation ought to have a beginning AND an ending.
Whereas Eastern philosophy focusses lies on the cyclicality and regeneration.
Next holiday I might just take a look in the book of revelation and see if it represents western linearity or eastern cyclical thought.
Thanks for sparking that idea.
nck
Manipulative?
In a way John the Baptist was able to draw attention to a new niche as a religious marketeer.
It is not good if people are manipulated into something unwanted.
Sometimes it helps to change ones perception on a topic to make it more appealing.
Why spend billions of dollar on a tunnel connecting London and Paris saving an hour of travel time. For the same amount of money we could have supermodels serve us cold drinks and dance for the rest of our lives, making the extra hour more pleasureable for tourists, no.
nck
5.45 PM
Sounds like you're in the same boat as BB. Shooting (mocking) the messenger is not a admirable trait.
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