Tuesday, May 22, 2018

Dave Pack: Cincinnati..where I leaned to have the "heart of a shepherd"



Yeah right...

Mr. Pack was 27 at the time he would leave Cincinnati. Certain things had “jelled” in his mind by this time. Training under Mr. Reyer had been the catalyst.
“As I continued to visit in an environment where people could be somewhat more difficult to work with, I had to learn to ease in and out of subjects, to set the table, relax and draw out people in a soft manner, if I were to have any chance of helping them. I learned more not just to crash through the door of a subject, but rather to gently play on the edge of it, until a mind was more ready to receive help.
“Every effective minister must develop the ‘heart of a shepherd.’ Without it, all is lost. A man has no chance to effectively work with and lead people if he does not think like a loving shepherd working with sheep, and being willing to lay down his life for them (John 10:1-15). This means he must be willing to battle wolves to the death because he loves God’s people (John 21:15-17).
“He must understand that he is there to serve them and not be served, as so many men never seemed to learn. Mrs. Pack and I would actually be criticized on a few occasions because, as it was sometimes put, ‘You won’t let people do things for you.’ Of course, there were a certain very few exceptions to this, but overall it was true. We would not permit people to pick up our raw milk at the farm, or natural honey, or do our errands and shopping for us. God’s people are generally very giving, and it would have been easy to take advantage of them. They have been taught to give and to serve, and many ministers saw this and treated them as a resource for their own use.
“In the end, when you do this, you certainly get much more than you give. And believe me, I saw this happen time and again through the years. We never left an assignment where we did not feel we got more than we gave, and usually by far. In that sense, ministers reap what they sow. We surely did reap in this way.
“When it came to really understanding the heart of a shepherd, Cincinnati was truly the turning point. I learned much there of ‘being all things to all people to gain the more.’”

16 comments:

Connie Schmidt said...

If someone is not sincerely asking the question, then they are not ready for an answer.

Anonymous said...

Why does everyone here call him Dave? His name is David.

Questeruk said...

David? You can't call him David.His name is Mr Pack.

Anonymous said...

If Pack truly has the heart of a shepherd, he keeps it in a jar in his freezer.

DennisCDiehl said...

"Dave" said: " God’s people are generally very giving, and it would have been easy to take advantage of them. They have been taught to give and to serve, and many ministers saw this and treated them as a resource for their own use."

Dave has since gone on to see this himself and to easily take advantage of the brethren with both his bogus Clarion Call and All Things Common. The man is living the dream off the backs of the brethren he pretends to serve with his shepherd's heart. Actually now Dave has the heart of a wolf.

Also, Dave can't stand to be called Dave evidently. He always wanted to be called Mr. Pack. "Dave" was too familiar and unacceptable . When Mr. Pack found out Les Schmedes ordained my brother in law a deacon after Mr. Pack moved from Rochester to Buffalo, he had a fit with my brother in law directly at a YOU ball game between the two churches. He told Ron that IF he thought Ron should have been a deacon , HE, Mr. Pack, would have ordained him so.

Ron detested "Mr Pack" so responded with ....get ready for it...."Well...Dave, if I didn't think you had shit for brains I'd care what you thought." Perfect. Dave freaked. Reported Ron to Les Schmedes and Les thought Ron had responded appropriately. Ron knew Dave thought it was disrespectful to call him Dave and took his shot.

Dumbhead said...

Just to go down memory lane, I believe I remember Les Schmedes. Wasn't he the black minister? He must have been a deacon first. Also from NY I remember Keith Thomas and David Biers. Keith talked about having the Feast in Manhatten. I guess he was ahead of his time.

Byker Bob said...

My question would be, who is this fictional character Davie is writing about? From all the testimony we’ve heard over the years, there is no way this could be autobiographical. Got to be the RCG version of the pseudepigrapha!

BB

Anonymous said...


Which is more disrespectful?

For someone to call David, Dave?

Or for Dave to steal everything that someone has?

By the time Dave is done with his victims, some of them might want to call him something even more disrespectful than merely Dave.

Hoss said...

Mr Minister

It was in the late 1970s when this formality was demanded. HWA wrote an article citing a story about himself from his early days in CG7 or RCG. In the youth group he said he organized, he apparently let the young'uns call him Herb, until one girl insisted the informality seemed disrespectful. So, decades later, he let it be known that ministers must now be addressed as Mister. And what made it more awkward in my church area, which was rather informal, a lot of members were much older than the minister...

DennisCDiehl said...

Dumbhead said...
Just to go down memory lane, I believe I remember Les Schmedes. Wasn't he the black minister? He must have been a deacon first. Also from NY I remember Keith Thomas and David Biers. Keith talked about having the Feast in Manhatten. I guess he was ahead of his time.

Yes, memories. Les was from the Caribbean and died a few years ago. He pastored my parents in Rochester and was dearly loved and the relief the church craved after Dave Pack left. Keith Thomas was the first minister I worked for in Minneapolis along with Bob Jones, Vic Kubic, Ben Morrison . I was Dan Bier's best man and David was his brother

Anonymous said...

Heart of a shepherd? He has no clue about shepherding anything. Telling members that they are entitled to half of marital assets and that the spouse or kids have no say in it. If the spouse disagrees then they are to be told "You have no say in it woman!" Stealing the inheritance of children and grandchildren so they end up with nothing?? Lying to members by telling them either they pay common or they have no salvation? What kind of bullshit is this?
Which is an out and out lie, no where in the NT is it required for salvation. Maybe he shepherds hyenas?

Anonymous said...

Why is David called Dave? Well why is Hitler not called Mr Hitler or Stalin not called Mr Stalin. The obvious reason is that they do not deserve the dignity of Mr. Neither does Dave deserve anything better than the name Dave.
Dave The Swindler or Scoundrel Dave would be a appropriate title.

Anonymous said...

Follows is a quote from Dave's "How to start your own cult and rip off your members for Dummies," page 22:
"Write a fictitious autobiography for the purpose of exalting yourself and winning your members trust. This trust can then be betrayed to plunder your flock. Done right, this can result in a financially comfortable lifestyle, including your own personal church compound."

Numbersman-Seattle said...

The concept of a shepherd is actually quite appropriate --- talk to any herdsman with actual experience with sheep, they will tell you the sheep can't survive without a shepherd as they seem to lack basic survival skills. And a herdsman will tell you they keep a flock of sheep so they can shear their wool and eat them. Sounds like a typical pastor congregation relationship doesn't it...

Connie Schmidt said...


NEW MOVIE RELEASE -- 2018 A SPACED OUT ODDITY!

Starring DAVE Pack, and the computer HAL 9000 as himself!

(Some spoiler movie quotes from Hal to DAVE Pack...)

HAL 9000: Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.

HAL 9000: Dave, stop. Stop, will you? Stop, Dave. Will you stop, Dave? Stop, Dave.

HAL 9000: I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.

Anonymous said...

Dave Pack has no heart, except for the iceberg located in his chest. He is the most cold, uncaring individual that I have ever known and I do speak from experience as an ex member of his cult! Believing that he was "holding fast" to all he learned from "his father in the gospel, Mr. Armstrong" was the biggest lie I have ever bought into. I will pay for my foolishness for the rest of my physical life. That deceiver uses and abuses everyone who comes into RCG. May God have mercy on those still in his vile clutches and help them to escape with their lives!