Sunday, September 30, 2018

The Royal Pretender

Herbert Armstrong always had a passion for wanting to be royal. 

I've discussed in the past his dream and ambition for having his own royal palace - many decades before such an edifice was raised into being. He even traced down his lineage to see if he had any link to royalty. Importance - to Herbert - was not in what the fruits of the Spirit were. Importance had to do with how monetarily successful you were, and how well you appeared to other people, and most of all - what you controlled and managed well. 

Herbert collected many, many physical treasures over the years. To specify for this article's purpose: 

One of the types of treasures to induce the appearance of royalty were expensive oil paintings. When he had the funds to have paintings of his family produced by those who painted actual royalty, he jumped at the opportunity. He commissioned oil painters in the development of many of these paintings. One of which was a particular S. Morse Brown, a "leading painter" who resided in the United Kingdom. 

I looked up information on S. Morse Brown and his paintings. He was commissioned in the paintings of many "important people" in Britain and elsewhere, including the Right Hon. Lord Davies, Admiral Edward Evans, 1st Lord Mountevans of Chelsea, and David Davies, 1st Lord Davies of Llandinam. Auction sales of his paintings generally sold in the thousands of dollars. In other words, he was a very important painter. 

The painting above by S. Morse Brown of Loma Armstrong was painted in England in the year 1961, no doubt on one of their many shopping excursions "for the College". It was this year, or shortly thereafter, that Herbert Armstrong conceived the master plan of the College, including the Ambassador Auditorium. Many of his overseas or international trips were full of many such elaborate shopping excursions well beyond the scope of "Gospel Proclamation" on his quest for luxurious living as an important person. In fact, As early as the 1940s, Herbert Armstrong was not modest on his excursions all over Canada, shopping at Hudson's Bay, one of the oldest Canadian department stores in existence. The stores, according to Wlkipedia, have a "focus on high-end fashion apparel, accessories, and home goods". 

Other personal portrait paintings of the Armstrong Family were featured prominently within the Ambassador College Campus of Bricket Wood - which hung a large painting of Dick Armstrong to grace one of the Campus's main buildings. 

Of course, these were not the only oil paintings that took place during the emergency crisis' of the 1940s to the 1970s. Nor were they the only extravagant purchases that occurred during the times when members and co-workers were being drained to the last penny under constant salvation-ending pressure. 

Herbert Armstrong's sales technique and plans were nothing sort of masterful - in the business sense - in the creation and quest of his royal and kingly lifestyle. Look, for instance, at how he created "crisis" and "emergency" perceptions to the public when it came to his building program. (Mirrored applications in how he built his media empire could also be shown.) 

First, overbook students. In other words, intentionally crowd them into a dorm for the following year, or a goal of such in the next few years - accepting more than it could currently house. This creates a need, and a sense of urgency. In such, it's an intentionally created "man-made" crisis or emergency, intentionally designed to motivate people to give more, to avoid the appearance of a "backwards" step in "the Work", something that would bring shame to a work that was said to have divine favor and origin. 

With more students, other "man-made" emergencies would erupt. Now, dining rooms were filled to capacity. The escalating "crisis" now needed more money to be spent on other buildings, like a larger dining room - otherwise, the dining room would be over-capacity and the college could get into code violations. He'd often see the need, and instead of doing the "right business thing", he'd green-light the project to build what was needed even without the finances on hand - and then guilt the heck out of the members to their breaking point to support this "Work of God". All while building up and purchasing royal treasures or expensive items in existing structures, and paying existing employees lavish incomes (consider Raymond McNair's Jaguar in the 50s/60s.) 

This pattern started from the very beginning and carried on into completion - but it was the Auditorium that launched the fundraising program into what the Church remembers so well as the "Big Push". It was during this time period that Herbert felt he had no choice but to pull out the worst business trick possible - the imposition of massive lies and extreme fear to extort finances out of spiritual people to raise enough money that the bank would approve the loans to sign off on the dream of the Auditorium. 

Herbert had an addiction to, and a passion for, the high life of material wealth. A life of fancy, luxury living with the finest of all physical treasures well beyond the auditorium. He wanted to be an important person. He knew that the only way to "be" an important person was through physical impression and physical appearance. The buildings, the clothes, the grounds, the music  - and yes, the property and treasures - all of this had to meet the high class life he always so desperately needed and wanted since he was 16 years old. Even on the personal appearance campaigns, his son Garner Ted was constantly looking for just such type of people - and would overtly ignore anyone who did not meet that mold. Those who were common poor folk were beneath them. 




His "world tomorrow" was a physical manifestation of the world based on physical interpretations of scripture that he most desperately envisioned as the reality of what world peace would be. A world of high-class, kingly living, where gold and silver jeweled treasures were everywhere, fountains flowed all over, everyone had the personality of royalty and the flair of royal manners - royal music like Strauss everywhere - all in the mold of the acceptable culture of life as part of the collective drone-like personalities imagined as appropriate under the rule of Herbert Armstrong. Spiritual enforcers - royal beings of the highest rank and position - would always keep an eye out for any who would possibly dare to express their own personality and creativity, under the rule of his interpretation of the governance of what he considered the law to be. There would be no shortage of royalty

Many times, Herbert would call the members of the Church future kings and queens in his world tomorrow. He would also call the children of the Church princes and princesses. And for the elite of the College who were seniors, these future royalty were given the rare opportunity to eat with the king to be himself, Herbert - on and around royal treasures worth nearly half a million dollars - a chance to play king with the great royal pretender himself. 

Real life was never like the world Herbert wanted so desperately to be. Certain splinter groups continue in the illusion and delusion of such a royal life. But such endeavors arealways to the detriment and the harm of the common people. Those who have been suckered in under royal pretense.That they would, too, someday, share in the rank, and position, and power, of those who are currently benefiting from those who believed their smooth talk. They believed that if they gave up what they had now, that they could be royal later - in a year, maybe two or three - that they were specially chosen for royalty. Only to find years later that they were victims of what can only be described as a royal scam. 

The truth is, scripture says that God is more precious than silver and gold. Scripture says that the things of the spirit and are of far more value than any earthly precious mineral or gemstone, or monetary wealth. Scripture says to store your treasures in heaven, where rot cannot destroy. True royalty is not what Herbert thought he was - because right now, Herbert has absolutely nothing. True royalty can best be described in the golden rule: Do unto others as you would have people do unto you. True royalty is encapsulated by the example of love. It's not in BMW's, or gemstones, or gold - like one particular splinter leader tried, and failed, miserably. 

The Great Pretender's treasures of gold and silver have scattered to all corners of the earth, as have the people, ministers, and buildings he treasured so much. But those who through it all have lived a lifestyle of love are like the building which was never washed away in the storm. And if there's one thing Herbert's legacy taught us, it's this: What seems physically unbreakable in one generation may be a distant memory the next.  A lesson all of us, in whatever we may believe and hold on to, should hold dear.

submitted by SHT

51 comments:

SHT said...

RE: Louis XV Asparagus:

"The king’s great-grandson and heir, Louis XV also made good use of the royal asparagus beds. A surviving recipe attributed to his mistress, the stunningly gorgeous Madame de Pompadour, features “Dutch” asparagus—that is, a white variety with purple tips—in a buttery sauce. A seductive purple, incidentally, was also said to be the color of Madame de Pompadour’s underwear."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/people-and-culture/food/the-plate/2014/05/13/asparagus-vegetable-version-viagra/

SHT said...

RE: Bernkasteler Doctor spirits (menu)

http://www.grapesandgrainsnyc.com/2010/09/19/the-bernkasteler-doctor-the-greatest-vineyard-in-germany/

"Herr Paul Grieco touted the wines for this tasting as “the greatest Riesling from the greatest Riesling vineyard in all of Germany”.

SHT said...

RE: Chateau Mouton Rothschild

You can see why Herbert was attracted to this particular wine.

"Baron Philippe de Rothschild came up with the idea of having each year's label designed by a famous artist of the day.[1] In 1946, after the success of the 1945 label, this became a permanent and significant aspect of the Mouton image with labels created by some of the world's great painters and sculptors.

Artists such as Salvador Dalí, Francis Bacon, Picasso and Miró designed labels for bottles of Mouton Rothschild.[2] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau_Mouton_Rothschild


SHT said...

RE: Chateau D'Yquem:

"While Minister Plenipotentiary to France, Thomas Jefferson visited the château and later wrote, "Sauterne.[sic] This is the best white wine of France and the best of it is made by Monsieur de Lur-Saluces."[2] Jefferson ordered 250 bottles of the 1784 vintage for himself, and additional bottles for George Washington. However, at that time the technique of allowing noble rot to infect grapes had not yet been discovered, so the wine Jefferson was drinking was a different sweet wines."

All these purchased and approved by Armstrong while touting the Globe. One lauded by Thomas Jefferson, one touted to be the greatest in Germany (!), and one extremely expensive Dom Perignon. And then we have the kingly asparagus. Which was said to be quite the aphrodisiac.

I bring these up without comment. You make your own conclusions.

Anonymous said...

Herberts affliction. He never got over being born poor so in later life spent like a King to compensate.

nck said...

Great writing, with good spiritual lessons!

I won't bother harping on the fact that the graduates were supposed to carry the "spiritual message of the once in a lifetime royal experience or culture into their lives and local congregations in meekness." Of course the goodies of being a king or prince should go hand in hand with a lifetime of training, experience and execution of justice and goodness.

I guess for most life experience will limited to Pulp Fiction's "Royale with Cheese".

Anyway thanks for the tips. I'll make a detour at Sauternes the next time our rental breaks down. What a joy to the palate. The Hamburger COG would never do in France I guess. As a matter of fact the struggle about agricultural produce between USA and Europe (France) is ongoing. The Canadians just made a deal about milk.

So many spiritual lessons in food and agricultural harvest.

nck

Anonymous said...

So AC faculty and students dinned in princely surroundings while members met in school gyms.

Anonymous said...

Herbert was certainly King, but several of his ministers achieved their ambition of being queens in this life, most notably Gerald Waterhouse.

Anonymous said...

4.33 AM
I was of the impression that Gerald Waterhouses almost non stop travels meant he lived in hotels. Living out of a suitcase is hardly the life of royalty.

Unknown said...

Anyone who has done even rudimentary genealogy and can trace back just 2 or three centuries, soon will discover that they have "royal blood" , especially if you have ANY European ancestry. Everyone in Europe has a royal background, and 98% of Europeans can trace their bloodlines to either William the Conqueror, Charlemagne , The Habsburgs, or King John.

Anonymous said...

Remember that old "game" we played as kids, The Mill? A bunch of kids would stand in a line and spread their legs and the one being punished would have to crawl under those legs and let the ones above have had it with the criminal. I'm not a very violent person, but I'd love to send HWA through the mill of about 100,000 members throughout WCG history. Just once.

Anonymous said...

My personal opinion is that Gerald Waterhouse was either high on something or drunk as a skunk when he spoke. I say this because his ramblings went on for hours without saying anything that made sense, and he talked so fast there was no way we could take notes. Trying to keep my eyes open during his marathon monologues was work in itself. The only thing I remember about anything he said was something about "lip glaxies". What??

nck said...

1:00 am

Yes and this was only regular tuesday breakfast.

If bb were here he would wax nostalgic about the effects of an abundance of beans for dinner. As a matter of fact he would be prepared to testify under oath about the beans.

Nck

What About The Truth said...

A local minister and sole proprietor in business from our congregation in the 80's came pulling into the meeting hall parking lot with a new $38,000 Mercedes while I was parking cars that day. I said wow, that is a nice car. He said to me, we have to project quality in our lives and we have to purchase the highest quality that we can afford. That statement was nothing new to my ears, it was what I had heard or read over and over again from the church.

This article by SHT certainly is evident fact to the business model of the WCG. While the membership was promised an entrance into a kingdom in the future, HWA obtained his kingdom in the present and used it as a springboard to obtain contact and honor from worldly kings, ambassadors and dignitaries under the guise of delivering a warning message.

The true King of the kingdom entered the crown city upon a rented ass. This King proclaimed a message, did miraculous works, amassed a following, gave to the poor, and sent his disciples out with nothing, delivering a message of hope and assurance. This same business model continued for many years after by those given the responsibility to do it. No multi-million dollar headquarter buildings or state of the art equipment or fabulous grounds and landscaping or fancy cars or high end expertly tailored suits were needed.

The Hebrew 12 people of faith sought a city and a country and by extension a Kingdom in the future. They didn't seek to build the same in the present for themselves. The biblical examples of one, two or a few doing the work of God with nothing physical is evident and contrasting to the seeking of and getting elaborateness that drives the vanity laden leaders of the past and present.

nck said...

Connie. HWA would rank you under the ones "who got it ". All American beaty and cola model Cindy Crawford is a charlemain descendant. Charles was quite the traveller.

7:18 thinks after checking the list that what appeared to be missing was "the golden shower" so it seems.

Nck

Anonymous said...

[The Bereans] were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so" (Acts 17:11).

Feastgoer said...

The Feast of Tabernacles is about God's people becoming "kings and priests."

Some people simply wanted to get a big head-start.

At least HWA didn't declare himself King - as someone in Oklahoma apparently has.

Anonymous said...

A friend of mine claims he never was brainwashed by Armstrongism, but yet he still clings to the old COVENANT laws especially the Hebrew feast days which originated with much older cananite feasts.

SHT said...

"The Feast of Tabernacles is about God's people becoming "kings and priests."

Jesus had a few words about those who desire to become "kings and priests".

"A Mother’s Request

20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came up to him with her sons, and kneeling before him she asked him for something. 21 And he said to her, “What do you want?” She said to him, “Say that these two sons of mine are to sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, ain your kingdom.” 22 Jesus answered, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able cto drink the cup that I am to drink?” They said to him, “We are able.” 23 He said to them, “You will drink for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.” 24 And when the ten heard it, they were indignant at the two brothers. 25 But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. 26 It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,4 28 even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” " (Biblia.com)

The attraction of Armstrongism was of a dictatorial ruler, not a serving, lowly slave. If Armstrongism's message had been what Jesus was saying, no one would have wanted the position. Herbert certainly didn't - it was beneath him to even think about following the Jesus way, as described here. Jesus would have had a lot to say if he had been allowed in on Armstrong's festivals. Of that I am absolutely certain. There's an article waiting to happen, someday. And I wouldn't even have to write it - i believe it's all there in scripture, no editing required.

SHT said...

"we have to project quality in our lives and we have to purchase the highest quality that we can afford."

Absolute evidence to Armstrong's emphasis of the physical over the spiritual.

True quality is the fruits of the Spirit. The qualities of God are not the qualities of the world. Armstrong's emphasis on physical quality was a direct affront to every principle Jesus ever taught. He would preach a spiritual word from scripture and every time apply it physically - from the style of a haircut to his version of "The World Tomorrow". One could say he turned the spiritual upside down and reduced it to lowly matter in his corrupt theology. And this is the principle that encouraged people to put their money into Mercedes and Jaguars and big concert halls like Ambassador Auditorium - which now belongs to a Pentecostal Charismatic Assembly - which would probably have Herbert rolling over in his grave. Or whatever's left of him.

TLA said...

The old covenant is the 10 commandments which were written on tables of stone. Deuteronomy 4 v 13.
The New covenant are the same laws written instead in our hearts. Jeremiah 31 verses 31 to 34.

The festivals are not part of either covenant. They are God's festivals and they make more sense to the new testament church.
For example in the OT, the feast of trumpets is the memorial of the blowing of trumpets. In the NT we get to tie it to the last trump (1 Cor 15 and Revelation) when Christ returns.

Anonymous said...

TLA, the Hebrew festivals have nothing to do with the new covenant. You need to study the book of Galations so you can understand what it means to be a Christian!

SHT said...

Duane A. Garrett is a professor of theology at the Southern Baptist Seminary. This is an outline he wrote concerning the OT Festivals:

https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/feasts-and-festivals-of-israel.html

With that said, I will now share my controversial opinion: (I am not a Southern Baptist, nor did I graduate from any Southern Baptist Seminary!)

The idea of carrying over the Festivals into the New Testament was one that was embraced by those who embraced BI/Sabbatarian Theology. Herman Hoeh was one of the masterminds of carrying the belief and theological interpretation of the Festivals into the New Covenant through his own exegesis of scripture. While one is free to observe such days if they choose so - the problem came with the baggage tied in with the Armstrong version of the Festivals. For instance:

1. The idea that your salvation is incumbent upon the observance of these festivals.
2. The idea that the carry-over of the Festivals reveals some mystery plan of God. The mystery has already been revealed to NT Christians.
3. The idea that somehow you can even keep these festivals properly in the hope of pleasing God.
4. The idea that anything you do(also, related to Law-Keeping) is good enough for any kind of brownie points with God. It is not.

The mystery plan of God is revealed in the Bible as Christ in you, the hope of Glory. (Col. 1:27), which was made possible by the fulfillment of the Law in Jesus Christ, who reconciled us all to the Father, thus allowing the Holy Spirit to dwell within us, who compose the New Testament Church today.

The Holy Spirit does not require a Calendar. The Holy Spirit does not need an on/off switch as to when we can be Christian and do good works or not. Christ in us does not require the concept of mortal time. And doing good works and showing faith and love does not run on a physical timetable, and is not dependent on the moon, or the sun, or any astronomical/astrological events as it relates to life here on Earth.

The one thing Herbert Armstrong, and Armstrongism was not able to do was to look beyond the physical to the reality of the spiritual realms - beyond time, space, matter, and the calendar. The festivals were given to those who, before the fulfillment of Christ, were cut off from God, and were reliant on physical representations of the spiritual realm and the Law with it's sacrificial commands.

What Herbert Armstrong did was simple and horrific: He ignored everything Christ fulfilled at His first coming, continued with the idea that everyone was cut off from God except for he and his church for the full 6,000 years from "Adam" to the 2C, and with that concept and misinterpretations of the Law/Christ relationship, maintained the Law was still in effect until the second coming of Christ. This concept is what was behind his version of the Festivals running into and through the New Testament.

Yes, they were God's Festivals. He ordained them. But he ordained them for a time and a place before the Holy Spirit's ministry, and before the reconciliation of God with Man through Christ, who is Who the entire Old Testament pointed to - the law, and the prophets. Now that the reality the OT pointed to has come through Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit can minister in us, and through us, the freedom we have in Jesus Christ does not bind us to a physical calendar. It binds us as representatives of Jesus Christ in actions of love, faith, hope, and charity to all through the Spirit's lead.

This is my opinion. It is controversial here. Therefore, that's all I will say about that. I will now gently bow out of this conversation as I am not going to engage in a prolong debate about it. :) Others here will no doubt vehemently disagree. But Banned is a place of open conversation, so I stuck my nose in this hornet's nest.

I may well regret that decision!



Anonymous said...

In the booklet the Wonderful World Tomorrow published in 1966 &1973 points out that The only HOPE of justice - of PEACE - of TRUTH - of the right solutions to the world's problems, is the coming in POWER and GLORY of Christ to set up WORLD Government! Right Government! The GOVERNMENT OF God!
What does that sound like?
AB

TLA said...

It sounds like we need the government of God not the government of man - including for Christians.

SHT said...

2:30

That sounds to me like you just interpreted everything physically. The exact same mistake Herbert made.

Anonymous said...

TLA, SHT...

God gave the annual festivals to (1) physical Israelites who (2) didn't have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them.

Unless you are a physical Israelite, you might as well observe the Canaanite versions of those festivals as the Israelite versions, or you might as well not observe them at all. They aren't for you. Here's where BI comes in; if you can convince yourself that you are from the Ten Lost Tribes, you can imagine that these festivals are your heritage. Modern DNA testing, of course, proves that the vast majority of those who call themselves "modern day Israelites" are no such thing.

Also, if you have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you, that Spirit is doing within you continually what the festivals did externally for the unconverted Israelites. To say that you need the Festivals AND the Spirit is ultimately to blaspheme the Spirit.

If, however, you decide that you do want to keep the Festivals as a Spirit-filled Christian, then you should at least KEEP THE FESTIVALS. Even HWA realized for many years that the Days of Unleavened Bread and the Feast of Tabernacles were parallel pilgrimage festivals. It is a completely man-made innovation to travel to hotels for eight days for the FOT, but to stay home and work for five days in the middle of the DULB. It is another man-made innovation to substitute the palm branches of the true FOT with the hotel buildings of HWA's version. Did people wave hotels at Christ's feet when He entered Jerusalem?

HWA, aided by Herman Hoeh, made a confused mess of things. His innovations may safely be ignored by Christians.

Anonymous said...

The great pretender!

Far from royal!

Tarzan

Anonymous said...

TLA wrote: "It sounds like we need the government of God not the government of man - including for Christians."

Which government of God? The one administered by Bob Thiel? James Malm? Gerald Weston? Dave Pack? Gerald Flurry? Herbert Armstrong? Garner Ted? Rod Meredith? Gerald Waterhouse?

Anonymous said...

Which government of God? The one where the heart and the mind are indwelled by the Holy Spirit to produce in us the fruits OF THE SPIRIT by which we are enabled to keep the SPIRITUAL LAWS of love God and love human beings, in which there is NO condemnation. LOVE is the government of God. God IS love.

Anonymous said...

About the Hudson's Bay department store. From Eugene, the closest city in Canada with a large store would be Vancouver. I grew up there in the 1950s, and in those days it was just a normal department store for normal people. It was about a generation later that they attempted to rebrand themselves for an upscale market. When we wanted to do upscale shopping, we drove 150 miles south to Seattle and shopped at Nordstroms. HWA would have had to drive through Seattle to get to Vancouver. (I only remember going to Nordstroms once, where I got a pair of shoes for the shockingly high price of $6!)

In previous centuries, the Hudson's Bay Company (as it was then called, also HBC, also The Bay) was most famous for selling blankets with a distinctive pattern to Indians in western and northern Canada, in exchange for furs. Their less scrupulous competitors sold alcoholic beverages to the same customers, which caused problems that are still going on.

Anonymous said...

9.24 AM
You say that at least Herb didn't declare himself a king. True, because he knew it would sound egotistical and ridiculous. So he gave himself the de facto title of king with his "The Chosen Apostle," spoken often and in reverential tones by his minions.

Herb didn't declare himself a king, he simply behaved as one. His ministers were junior kings who turned their congregations into open air prisons.

Anonymous said...

2:30 said

That sounds to me like you just interpreted everything physically. The exact same mistake Herbert made.

I quoted that directly out of that booklet. I have 2 volumes that have the booklets created in those years. I had forgotten I had those 2 volumes. The were given to those in leadership roles at that time.
AB

Anonymous said...

2.24 PM
Regarding your OT Festivals post. I have on the rare occasion forgotten the correct date. Humanly understandable since I am a stay at home Christian. Did I get a reaction from the holy spirit? Most definitely yes.
I suggest you reality check your conclusion with God. After all, He defines reality and has the final say.

Anonymous said...

More on the Wonderful World Tomorrow
The writer which I presume was HWA went through a large number of the worlds problems at that time and was emphasized that the God's chosen people were being trained take roles in the government of God.

I am not saying it was what was being done or that it was being done. What I am saying is that the people reading those booklets would have a different view of those writings than the writings being posted here.

AB

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:08 PM, Very well said & I absolutely agree.

Anonymous said...

If any of the Armstrong death cults are even remotely "the government of god", I'd rather take my chances in the lake of fire!

Anonymous said...

3:27 wrote: "Which government of God? The one where the heart and the mind are indwelled by the Holy Spirit to produce in us the fruits OF THE SPIRIT by which we are enabled to keep the SPIRITUAL LAWS of love God and love human beings, in which there is NO condemnation. LOVE is the government of God. God IS love."

That is true. That is why it CANNOT ever be administered by anyone from the Churches of God; as it taught us to believe we would be rulers, kings, priests and gods in that kingdom where we would be the teachers of the law and the enforcers. COG leaders and members would make the Kingdom of God a living hell.

Anonymous said...

5:07
What you described in your paragraph is the kingdom of the god of hell. Which means that the splinter groups are following the one who Jesus conquered. The only way that conqueted deity (false god) has any power is if you believe it's lies, which they do. So they are brainwashed and in a prison of their own belief system. The TRUTH shall set them free. THEY are in prison.

TLA said...

When I wrote government of God not government of man, I thought I was being very clear. Man is not God. You prick us, we bleed.
Regardless of our future, as human beings we are not God.
We may have different opinions on this forum about life after death, but I hope we can all agree we are alive right now in the flesh and very limited compared to God.
The original apostles were very concerned about power, but Jesus firmly told them that the greatest leaders are the greatest servants and not to lord it over others.

Anonymous said...

He can have all of the aspara-gas that he wants, as far as I'm concerned.

What a contrast! A wannabe Rothschild, a bottom-feeder who disparages his acolytes, while exploiting what little they had. Just like Massah and the plantation, except he called us whiteys "Israelite" to make us feel important.

Anonymous said...

Feastgoer 10/1 9:24 AM said: "The Feast of Tabernacles is about God's people becoming 'kings and priests.'"

How so?

I read in the Holy Bible God explains His reason thus: "Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God" (Lv 23:42-43).

So the Israelites weren't instructed to dwell in "temporary dwellings" like hotel rooms as HWA would have us believe to accommodate his mandated annual holiday at certain locations around the world he claimed "God has placed His name there." I believe in all honesty that God ordained this holy festival to teach the Israelites (and by extension us Christians) the mortality of this life. That our God "tabernacled" with us (John 1: 14: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt [tabernacled] among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.") is further support to this imho. Ultimately I hope to be clothed in immortality as my Saviour was after His resurrection on the third day as Paul writes (1 For 15:53-4: "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory") or as Job wrote (Job 19:26: "And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God") or as Shakespeare put it, "What dreams may come/When we have shuffled off this mortal coil."

AB 10/1 2:30 PM said: "In the booklet the Wonderful World Tomorrow published in 1966 &1973 points out that The only HOPE of justice - of PEACE - of TRUTH - of the right solutions to the world's problems, is the coming in POWER and GLORY of Christ to set up WORLD Government! Right Government! The GOVERNMENT OF God!
What does that sound like?"

To me the "Government of God" is all about Self-Government. That's why I respect the American Founding Fathers and the Constitution of the USA and the Bill of Rights. These men were, despite their flaws, remarkable Christians and libertarians who established a Christian Constitutional Republic that was all about Self-Government. That's why James Madison is attributed to have said: "We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments of God." And although this quote is "unconfirmed" the quote that it supposedly derived from is just as applicable (if not more so) as he said: "that honorable determination which animates every votary of freedom, to rest all our political experiments on the capacity of mankind for self government." Hence, as a Christian I am to govern myself guided by God's Holy Spirit and daily conform to His standard as revealed by Christ Jesus, reflecting His thoughts, words and deeds, who ultimately will be the standard by which all shall be measured. Like another attributed quote of Madison's goes: "If man is not fit to govern himself, how can he be fit to govern someone else?" And the less the control from within, greater shall be the control from without.

nck said...

Yes we are man and spiritual things can be represented by physical things.

I will not enter the religious debate I am not a verse slinger. The only information that is missing in this thread is the employed notion or philosophy that "the physical" (shapes and forms), could serve to enhance/better the character of man apart from function. (utility of architecture)

This philosophy was employed by most of the contractors working for the Church. Like Garett Eckbo for the masterplan and the gardens or the Architect firm daniel johnson mendenhall.

If a person believes the Holy Spirit alone can bring atonement with the character of God than that is probably right as far as I am able to grasp spirituality.

But to just boil down the assets of the church as lavish overspending does not do right to an entire school of thought in arts, philosophy, architecture, politics (socialism even), that is entirely dedicated to the "aspiration of man" (egret statue name), to become something better. These were the philosophies of most companies and artists employed by the church.

nck

TLA said...

SHT - looks like we have a lot of interest in the festivals - especially Tabernacles. Could you start a new blog entry with your festival quote?

SHT said...

11:10 -

That decision is up to the blog owner here.

However, I will take my own quote and I will cut and paste it over at my personal blog if you'd like to go over there and talk about it more indepthly.

likeapelicanalone.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

1.21 AM
'The government of God is about self government.' I'd add the qualifier of principally about self government. The Founding Father did state that the role of government is to 'secure these right.' ie, protect people from criminals. Since God does not trust angels, and honest disagreements do arise, external government is still necessary.

I don't believe the founding fathers can accurately be called libertarians.
Libertarians believe in limited government and little more. The reject the concept of inalienable rights, and instead believe in the dubious 'common sense' view of rights as explained by libertarians such as Tom Woods. The founding fathers pointed to God which means belief in a firm reality and fixed laws. Libertarians are silent on this point. It's a water downed redneck philosophy, since it's all this evil world will tolerate.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps it’s just best to realize that everything HWA was simply an illusion for the purpose of inducing tithes and offerings. Alas, it was all so easily dispersed, and there truly is no second act. We must defer to the wisdom of Gamaliel. Rock n roll, Baby!

Kevin McMillen said...

"""""Anonymous said...
TLA, SHT...

God gave the annual festivals to (1) physical Israelites who (2) didn't have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them.

Unless you are a physical Israelite, you might as well observe the Canaanite versions of those festivals as the Israelite versions, or you might as well not observe them at all. They aren't for you"""""""""



...and your explanation of Zech. 14 is??? Too bad the Holy Spirit, when inspiring Zechariah, didn't realize those days weren't for Egypt.

Kevin McMillen

Kevin McMillen said...

"""Anonymous said...
TLA, the Hebrew festivals have nothing to do with the new covenant. You need to study the book of Galations so you can understand what it means to be a Christian!

October 1, 2018 at 2:24 PM"""

---------------------------------------

While I agree that the book of Galatians is an excellent book and should be read by all who claim to be Christian, another book might change your mind about the festivals having nothing to do with the New Covenant. That book is Ronald L. Dart's book The Thread, God's Appointments With History and can be found here:

http://www.protorah.com/the-thread-by-ronald-l-dart/

I would think that if I'm willing to read Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion that you and others on here would be willing to read Dart's book from lid to lid. That is, unless you are afraid to be challenged!

Kevin McMillen

Mike Manners said...

BEST article I have read in a long time. Herb is screaming in Hades right now without a Royal penny to rub together. All his delusions of grandeur have come to nothing.

Mike Manners said...

BEST article I have read in a long time. Herb is screaming in Hades right now without a Royal penny to rub together. All his delusions of grandeur have come to nothing.