BULLETIN: 06/13/76
clipping courtesy of SHT
C Wayne Cole had no idea that what he predicted above would happen to every single splinter group of the Church of God. Not a single COG has a "mass impact" in this nation. No one knows who they are. Even the groups that claim they are God's current mouthpiece are insignificant and nothing. All of the silly little men who self-appointed themselves have proven to be shallow and impotent.
22 comments:
"Not a single COG has a "mass impact" in this nation."
a major error on your part.
the Church is not required to have a major impact, only to preach the gospel.
only those called by God will respond, so you see, God determines the impact.
that being said, most of the splinters (those you write about here) are phony, their doctrines and practices are not of God...which I think is a big reason you are so against the Church....you can't separate the false churches from The Church, so you lump them all in together.
God will clear it up for you one day.
How do you make an impact on the world. Does sitting on a folding chair in a rented Masonic lodge, listing to some guy drone on and on about how they are special make an impact. Or did the lady who donated a kidney to save a sick man’s life make an impact? A church member would make so much more of an impact giving a tithe/donation to a homeless shelter than giving it to a cog.
We liked to think, back in the glory days, that we were having an impact, but we really didn't. A few thousand got sucked in by mass media of the time and became dutiful tithe slaves to support Herbert's increasingly flamboyant and self-aggrandizing lifestyle. We liked to kid ourselves that we were having an impact, but we never did. We just messed up our own lives and sabotaged our financial futures. It was all a big illusion and it all collapsed like the house of cards it was.
As I underrstand it, ...C Wayne Cole was the recipient of the full brunt of HWA and the corrupt system during the Receivership fiasco. Disillusioned, Cole , (still alive) continues as a Sabbatarian and faithful.
Allen Dexter, I think you very precisely expressed the whole experience in a nutshell.
The purpose of preaching the gospel is to make disciples (Matt. 28:19).
The problem is that Herbert Armstrong made disciples of Herbert Armstrong, which is why the movement stalled with his death, has had statistically negligible impact on the world, and is all but forgotten today except for a handful of die hards. In contrast, interest in Jesus has been a dominant phenomenon for over 2,000 years. Herbert self-aggrandized as opposed to sticking to the script.
Armstrongism was preached in such a manner that most followers expected it to peak at the end which it forecast, to end climactically with infamy and persecution, necessitating flight to a place of safety. Armstrongism could not make real what it prophesied. The mass infamy and the end never happened. Even today, if there is an end in sight, it appears that it will be the climax of other existential threats, totally unrelated to what was preached as the core of Armstrongism, those teachings only being plausible and possible during a specific time in history (which has come and gone).
Cole's missive from 1976 may not have even been completely credible to a wide cross section of the membership in 1976. The end hadn't happened on schedule, and many many people had recently left the church and the ministry, over ethical, prophetic, and doctrinal issues. I know that I most certainly did not worry that I might be being left out of anything great or impactful. My feeling at the time was that I was leaving a failed movement. Decades have proven that to have been correct.
Dexter said: We liked to kid ourselves that we were having an impact, but we never did. We just messed up our own lives and sabotaged our financial futures. It was all a big illusion and it all collapsed like the house of cards it was.
AB Comment: This may be true about many of those who were focused on building a life that the world would consider a great success. I believe there were people who had a firm belief in God and the hope that was given to those who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The basic life style of members may have been forced to embrace some negative features but not sinful or destructive. Those were and are truly people committed to a faith in God and Jesus Christ will make the needed changes to continue their earthly journey until God's chosen time for their physical death. That is what Faith, Hope, Charity (Love) is all about.
7.45 AM
You are ignoring that God in the OT repeatedly warned both Israel and later Judah to repent, and embrace the ten commandments. The call was for all, not just "those called by God." God has a moral responsibility to warn people to repent, and point to a coming military defeat and enslavement if repentance is rejected.
I'm not sure about the degree of the warning. It's hard to measure. But I can't see God allowing national disaster without a minimum level of warning. I don't believe God or any reasonable person would appreciate a "but we weren't warned" from the victims.
Wayne Cole was alive as of about 10 days ago. Did he die in the last couple of weeks?
Had God been using HWA to warn the world, had Anglo white people actually been Israel, and if HWA were accurate in identifying what was supposed to be kept, and what disobedience the punishment was designed to correct, then it would all have come down exactly as he outlined. It didn't. He's gone and forgotten. Nobody today is providing a visible and credible witness or warning, and everyone who was ever a continuous follower of HWA has either greatly diminished or wasted their lives.
The lemmings refuse to even follow the criteria HWA established for himself! He actually warned them that if these things don't happen in such and such time, you'll know that I am a liar and the truth is not in me. Well, he was, and it wasn't. We made it possible for him to die with the most toys and to win.
The prophesied Elijah to come before Christ returns has not arrived yet. When we see someone turning the hearts of the children to the fathers and the father to the children, then that may be the man.
Maybe other groups are doing "the work".
If anyone is a science fiction fan, you may have read the Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe where the answer to life, etc. is 42. Then they realize they have to figure out the real question which turns out to be what is 9 times 6.
(I recommend the BBC TV series for the best version or just reading the books.)
The question for us is what is the work?
What the COGs are doing does not seem to be the answer - what is the real question they should be asking?
Correction, it was his brother Leroy.
2.56 PM
Herbs wild speculations and deceitful timing of bible prophesies, does not negate the bible itself. People are supposed to look to the bible as the reference point, rather than some pathologically deceitful advertising man.
That said, I believe that Herb smeared God and the bibles prophesys by turning his church into a abusive cult.
In Ezekiel, God condemned Israels leaders for taking the best for themselves, then trampling the sheep's food and mudding their waters.
We can say so for any church that is extreme e.g JWs, they are sincere people all around. But what about the sincere ones that lost love ones due to the no doctor policy,the suicides,mental illnesses,the ones who put the financial needs of the church before their families leading to many divorces and economic problems, the ones who were put out the church and scorned by the only people they knew,the destruction of critical thinking to the point where some think it is a sin to disobey the ministry, vast hordes of people who turned to athiestism as a result of their experience in Cogdom specifically WCG,a believe is not necessarily a reality but what we believe to be reality at any given time. Oh and we are to be wise stewards with our money not just give it away to tricksters for the sake of perusing spiritual things, as the saying goes a fool and his money is easily parted,unfortunately religion can be used to make us total fools.
That's good, 7:48, so long as you don't assume that HWA had the correct understanding of those prophecies. Prophecy is highly subject to interpretation, and is often only understood after it has been fulfilled. Over the years, we've seen many people state that "the Bible says..." and then they quote HWA's slant on it. People say that they don't follow a man, but then they value his interpretation over all others. Best to read widely and obtain a multitude of counsel, not just Armstrong, or necessarily even sabbatarian sources.
1:02 said: “Over the years, we've seen many people state that ‘the Bible says...’ and then they quote HWA's slant on it. People say that they don't follow a man, but then they value his interpretation over all others. Best to read widely and obtain a multitude of counsel, not just Armstrong, or necessarily even sabbatarian sources.”
Totally agree 100%!!!!
A pet peeve of mine has been Xian friends in a COG disapproving of various Christian reference works I might suggest to them, which interprets a Bible passage differently to the standard HWA explanation, just because the author is a Sunday keeper or believes the Trinity or observes Xmas and Easter as if that somehow automatically disqualifies them and their interpretation of God’s Word! It’s totally wrong and totally stupid! SMH But, if the interpretation agrees with HWA’s interpretation then they’ll applaud it despite the aforementioned mainstream Xian background of the author! Don’t they know they’re limiting themselves to this one man and his limited knowledge as expressed in his literature?! Do they do that in any other capacity of their lives (eg business, technology, health, etc.) or is it just in their chosen religion?! Bonkers!!!
It occurred to me many years ago that each and every religion/sect feels superior and closer to God than every other religion/sect. One knows THEY are closer to God, God loves them more than the others, blesses them, or gives them trials more to show how much more he loves them than all the millions of others. It is pure egotistic and prideful to think God has chosen just ONE over another, when in fact He created us all in different colors, and cultures. I am disgusted that I ever allied myself to any COG and led to believe I was somehow more special than anyone else. I feel so much better just being free from all that nonsense.
1.02 PM
Herb wasn't wrong about everything. His timing of prophesys was way off, and he must have known it considering that it was always 3 - 5 years away. But I believe the core of his prophesys correct.
At any rate, a prayer answering God can confirm or disprove Herbs prophesys.
First off the whole idea of Armstrongism is meant to insult. There is no minister alive today -in a church- that is teaching anything as Armstrong did. Wayne Cole as well as Armstrong's son both were involved in a conspiracy to teach people that their teachings were of Armstrong when they were complete opposite.
Armstrong taught things an expected as well as told people to look it up for themselves and not to take his word for it. Most of the ministers that came in were random people who attended the university with no Pryor education as they could not even read. This is why things went downhill cause they thought they were more righteous with their education and no study except to pass. This split the church as many did it and eventually with Armstrong dead and people following others who claimed to know the way to heaven the church shut down. Armstrong never claimed to know the way to heaven, he did teach heaven is not a place for mankind and never will be. The world tomorrow is a thing though.
Which is more petty, someone who attended and experienced it or someone who researched it.
He never actually prophesied a particular date, he did say it could be tomorrow or in a few years or it may be in the next few years. People like to run with little information, but I not only attended the church I still listen to his recordings today.
He never said anything to instill fear people just did their own thing seeing how it was possible to always happen in a massive group that attended and we are only human.
He also only ever taught to love one another whether they were in the church or not. Such as homosexuality.. He taught it to be wrong, but he also taught to love them anyway as they are still children of God even if mislead, I am just not going to seek them out to have a conversation. Same goes for anyone slandering a person.. Everyone is so busy going out and preaching against someone's teachings that they don't realise our teachings were to only teach those who accept to listen and not to force anyone to do what they don't want to. Unlike most churches today with ministers that left split or were removed from our church when Armstrong was in charge due to their adultery, immoral acts, mentions of changes that were against biblical verses and lastly greediness.
I just finished a few recorded sermons today as one is never enough. And the usual 1 hour or so then congregating was always something I was against. Church to me is for learning to better yourself and present yourself to others as an example of your faith and love of God.
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