There is a long-running blog (since 2008) that has been run by a COG member that has taken another hit against our resident self-appointed false prophet, Bob Thiel of the improperly named "continuing" Church of God.
Almost everyone in and out of the Church of God totally understands why Thiel's outlandish claims are without merit and ultimately a dangerous road for any Christian to follow. Everyone that is except for the diploma-mill "dr." Thiel. Almost as soon as Rod Meredith kicked Theil to the curb because of his outlandish claims and outright lies, the self-appointed prophet began dreaming up claims that he tried to legitimize himself in the eyes of the leadership and members of LCG who have spent decades laughing at him behind his back.
That ultimate rejection by his spiritual daddy, Rod Meredith, was like a knife in his back. He needed to come up with new ideas to prove himself worthy of being followed. He immediately began blaming Meredith and LCG for being lax in their ways and teachings and soon resorted to "interpreting" his dreams in order to make himself look worthy to be followed. Finally after too many bad meals that resulted in lots of restless dreams, Thiel miraculous became the ONLY true COG leader on earth today.
Anyway, back to the blog:
2 Kings 2:9-15 tells of the time when the prophet Elijah was carried by a whirlwind into heaven. At the same time, his office and responsibilities were transferred to Elisha who was to be prophet in his place (1 Kings 19:15-16).
Elisha asked Elijah for a "double portion of your spirit" (2 Kings 2:9). What did that refer to? Did it mean becoming a prophet? Was a prophetic office indicated by the term "double portion"?
No. That is impossible.
The Bible does not specify exactly what was meant by that term and everything it indicated. Perhaps it referred to the power to work signs and miracles. But it did not indicate the office of prophet.
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I bring this up because some think that if a minister anoints someone and asks God to give that person a double portion of God's Spirit, that is the same thing as ordaining that person as a prophet. Nothing could be further from the truth.The next part is my favorite. I can feel the butthurt all the way from Arroyo Grande when the self-appointed one read this:
In previous posts I have made the point that making the request for a double portion does not mean God grants the request. Even Elijah did not know if God would give Elisha what he asked. Even today, when a member is anointed for healing, which is promised, God does not always heal even in this lifetime, and a double portion of God's Spirit is not even promised.
But now I am showing that the "double portion" does not even refer to being a prophet.
It can't. Elijah knew Elisha would be prophet from what God had told him in 1 Kings 19:16. He would not have answered Elisha as he did if "double portion" meant the office of prophet. The matter of Elisha being a prophet was not a question at this point. It was already settled. Not so the "double portion". That was something else. Elijah did not know if God would grant that request.
So the "double portion" Elisha requested and the office of prophet were two different things.
How do we know if a man in the Church of God is a prophet? Only God can make someone a prophet. But how do we know if He has done so?
God gives criteria.
One is, he must be faithful, overall, to God's way of life. He must be faithful to strive to believe and live by every word of God (Matthew 4:4). That does not mean he is perfect. But overall, he must be faithful to teach the truth. In particular, he must not try to turn the people to false gods. "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods'—which you have not known—'and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul" (Deuteronomy 13:1-3).
This includes not pointing the people to demon-inspired messages about the future. "For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not appointed such for you" (Deuteronomy 18:14).
A man who quotes and publishes and spreads pagan and demon-inspired prophecies about the future, trying to learn and teach from demons details of the future that God does not choose to reveal, disqualifies himself from being a true prophet.
The self-appointed prophet has yet to make any prophecy concerning the future or uttered anything over the last few years that came to pass. The problem with the doubly-deceived prophet is that he cannot differentiate between his personal ideas, hopes, and desires from letting his god speak to him. Thiel's visions are nothing more than wishful thinking and are not a communication from God. Everyone sees that except for him.
But also, a true prophet of God is given prophecy by God. God gives prophecy - sure prophetic messages by direct revelation from God - to His true prophets. And a sign of a prophet is accurate predictions in those messages of future events. When a prediction in a prophetic message comes true in a way that is unlikely by chance, that is a sign that the man is a true prophet.So what happens if, by chance, the doubly blessed one actually does make some kind of prophecy that might come to pass? More butthurt is to ensured:
"And if you say in your heart, 'How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?'—when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him" (Deuteronomy 18:21-22).
I find no example in the Bible of a prophet without prophecy. Any man who claims to be a prophet but who has never received a direct prophetic message from God is practicing wishful thinking.
Those are two qualifications for being a prophet - not turning the people to false gods, false doctrines, or messages from demons, and actually receiving prophetic messages from God - messages about the future that can be verified when the future event comes to pass.
Both are needed.
What if someone who claims to be a prophet of God makes a prediction that comes to pass, but also turns people to demon-inspired pagan prophecies? Is that person a true prophet?
No.
God may allow a false teacher to make a true prediction as a way of testing His people to know if they will believe His word, the Bible, or not. See Deuteronomy 13:1-3 which I quoted above.
So even if a man can make true predictions about the future, if he points people to pagan and demon-inspired messages, he cannot be a true prophet of God.
How much less a man who claims to be a prophet, points people to pagan prophecies, and cannot even make his own prophetic predictions.
12 comments:
Thiel definitely did receive a double-portion of butthurt.
The whole mistaken notion of anyone knowing the future, which they have not and can not, along with alleged Bible Prophecy, which fails also to deliver, has always made fools out of the ministry and their leaders. Their heads are so in the clouds they are of no earthly good
Dennis - I understand where you are coming from, but disagree on the validity of Bible prophecy.
However, our leaders in the past have tortured the scriptures to come up with their own interpretations.
For example the 7 times in Leviticus is repeated 4 times - same Hebrew word used for times in all of them. They are a general description of the intensity of punishment, not a prophecy, and definitely not 2,520 years. This is an example of making a fulfilled prophecy were none was intended. Modern DNA testing puts to rest the British Israelite notion.
Amos 9 (context is primarily the norther tribes) are scattered until the restoration of David - which happens when Christ returns.
Not a stone (person) of Israel will be lost.
How can this happen? Why not each person's unique DNA?
God tracks everything somehow.
If you don't believe in God anymore, think of a master scientist instead whose technology is light years ahead of ours today.
Bible prophesy as explained by the ACOGs (eg, date setting), assumes that God micro-micro managers peoples lives. Hence, they make God in their image and legitimize their own lording ways. There are ample end time bible prophesys. No prophets, real or defacto, are required.
We would have been far better off concentrating on real (not Armstrong-perverted) Christian values as opposed to supposedly iron-clad Armstrongian prophecies (which HWA actually plagiarized).
Prophecies are not even able to be interpreted in advance. Fulfillment is only recognized in retrospect to prove that God is in control.
The double portion and even the single portion in Armstrongism is totally imaginary. God has nothing to do with the group or its so-called mission. Some individual members of the ACOGs, almost by accident, do have the Spirit of God. But this was accomplished through other means, and not through Armstrongism itself.
BB
TLA said: "Modern DNA testing puts to rest the British Israelite notion. Amos 9 (context is primarily the norther tribes) are scattered until the restoration of David - which happens when Christ returns. Not a stone (person) of Israel will be lost. How can this happen? Why not each person's unique DNA? God tracks everything somehow. If you don't believe in God anymore, think of a master scientist instead whose technology is light years ahead of ours today."
So you don't believe in BI, but you state the ten tribes of the ancient northern Kingdom of Israel are "scattered" all over the world. So you believe their descendants are known to God even though you don't believe they're identifiable as a specific nation(s) today? Is that correct?
Coz I don't believe the BI theory that the British throne is the "throne of David." I still believe the modern descendants of the 12 tribes are predominantly to be found in Europe and the Anglosphere (eg UK, US, Canada, Australia, NZ).
You said: The Bible does not specify exactly what was meant by that term and everything it indicated. Perhaps it referred to the power to work signs and miracles. But it did not indicate the office of prophet.
It is my understanding that there are several passages refer to a double portion. For instance,the first born received a double portion of inheritance. There is a mentioned elsewhere of a double portion of joy. Elisha asked for a double portion, and he did perform many more miracles than Elijah. Elijah wasn't the source of this blessing, God was. It was through Elijah, not from Elijah that he received the ability to perform more miracles. Anyone can desire and ask for something, but it doesn't mean that they received it. What fruit does Bob produce back up his claim of having a double portion? The purpose of miracles is to show that someone is from God. No fruit . . . no proof.
Does his performance come anywhere near verifying the double portion? We know the answer to that one, but apparently he’s so deluded that he just can’t see it.
BB
Double portions of ice cream are what I want every time I hear about "double portion Thiel"!! ;-)
Anonymous 3:03am - DNA sometimes shows people have Jewish blood that did not expect it. And yes, most Jews are in Europe and the Anglosphere.
We will have to wait until Christ reveals them in the millennium - unless we get a real prophet who gets real revelation.
I have talked to a Jewish rabbi who believes everyone except the Jews are mixed, but still believes God created everything - including dinosaurs 6000 years ago. The reason I am partial to the gap theory is the lost creation does not seem remotely hospitable to most modern life forms - and life is far too complex to just have evolved.
dr thiel frankly is not distinct from most of the narcissist what think themselves somebody: delusions of grandeur, all while having done absolutely nothing that even remotely resembles any biblical prophet: no miracles, no forecasts, no feats of excessive strength; hes not even a great orator...
while i appreciate his concerns, and desire to preach, he should have left it to just that: preach the Gospel, and dont soil the message with various doctrinal adulterations and self exaltations...
c f yochanan
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