It has been a little over 20 years since tens of thousands of Worldwide Church of God members joined up with various groups of men who promised to hold fast to Herbert Armstrong's teachings and promises of treating members better than they had been in WCG. That ideal quickly faded into the Armstrongite sunset as one abusive leader after another started showing his true colors with more legalistic abuse than Worldwide ever imagined.
Warm tales of unity soon dissolved into one split after another as self-appointed vain church leaders imagined themselves better than the next and set off with thousands of members to form more groups.
In spite of these self-absorbed men imagining themselves and their new groups as God's one true church, each and every one of them are now stagnant or in a downward spiral. They are unable to draw in new members as old-time members either leave the church in disgust or die off. Their messages have no appeal to the world at large and is a direct turn off to its younger members.
As we enter 2019, each and every COG is having to face the cold-hearted reality that they are spiritual failures. Even the self-appointed upstarts like Bob Thiel and James Malm are men with no purpose and are doomed to failure as people start to wake up to the deceitful legalistic bullshit they practice.
Is Armstrongism finally in its last stages of existence?
At the annual Ministerial Board of Directors meeting in December, President Jim Franks listed 6 key concerns that the leadership needs to address.
1. How do we get the message out to the world in the most effective manner?“We still have a very healthy number of unique visitors every month to Life Hope and Truth – but how can we increase that number?”
2. What can we do about growth in the church?“We have seen some growth since we began in 2010, but not a lot. Our actual attendance worldwide is up, but only by a few percentage points, single digits actually.”
3. Increase in requests for international subsidies.“In our budget for 2019 we will be spending approximately $2 million in supporting congregations and ministers outside the USA. Because of our excellent financial position, we are hopeful to upgrade feast sites, build new meeting halls – you know there are still some areas where the members meet outside under the trees – and to train new leaders in all areas outside the USA. Because we will end this year with a surplus, we plan to send additional funds from this year to several areas in Africa, so we won’t have to impact next year’s budget.”
4. How will we replace ministers who will retire in the next 7 years?“In the next 7 to 10 years half of our current pastors will most likely retire. Not only is there a financial responsibility to provide for them when they retire, but how do we replace them? This will require judicious use of our resource,s and an increase to continue providing pastors for every congregation, which we are committed to doing.”
“Our current financial plan is to pay off the mortgage of the (new HQ) building within 6 years … this is about when we will see the largest number of men retiring.”
5. How will we expand leadership development in the USA and outside the USA?“We are working hard at developing a database of men and women who desire to serve in the church from our various programs. From this group we hope to take on new and younger leaders to take on more responsibility.”
6. We know that we have doctrinal challenges to contend with.“Paul, Peter and John all warned about false teachers and false prophets. It will come from among us. We must ask ourselves if we have done the best job we can in teaching our basic beliefs, especially among our young adults. Are we doing our best to help them understand some of the most basic teachings of God’s word? We all must be on guard against heresy. It will come and it has come. We must not tolerate it. We will be kind to everyone, but we will not accept erroneous doctrinal teachings.” Church of God News
47 comments:
"Not only is there a financial responsibility to provide for them when they retire..."
Well..there's a new thought. Thanks Joe. Get a new Rolex for Christmas?
The belief that they have all the truth, destroys progress, which limits new members.
I see articles disproving evolution, but nothing addressing DNA which debunks Adam and Eve and British Israelism. By now, I would have thought they would have articles addressing it - I think they have become intellectually bankrupt.
The groups all appear to have the same leaders they had over 20 years ago with a few people in their 50s and 60s replacing dead leaders. The world has become more inclusive of people of color and women - they are still stuck in the past with a bunch of old white men.
Disagreement is not tolerated, which means there is no hope of progress.
It is so disappointing to me, because I was a true believer until I realized the COGs are only following the parts of the Bible they like, and like the Pharisees of Jesus' day, have added their additional set of rules and beliefs.
That sums it up quite correctly. Why do they fund basically Africa when people here in this country that need help and are left twisting in the wind? Why did COGWA take on most of the African work that United let go? Well I can tell you why, for numbers that's it period. Growth in COGWA is very little and most comes from within, half of a local congregation comes from one family that's very fertile. The minister is afraid of saying how badly the kids behave. They run and scream and run around into the elderly. Most of cogs do not will not and maybe could not preach anything on prophecy, healing and so many other things. The local church has become the same as all the other Baptist churches around from where our minister came. You ask him a question from the bible he says that's a good question and never makes a effort to answer it. Cogwa is a joke the least offensive and do nothing Church and most of the other cogs are worse.
TLA notes: " I think they have become intellectually bankrupt."
There is and never has been an intellectual aspect in the Churches of God. Only a pretense of it as was embodied by the Dr Hoeh, Ernest Martin and Charles Dorothy types who were often viewed as untouchable and outside the box that confined most ministers and members to the narrative.
They are LOCKED into an old and outdated narrative presented to them by HWA with a few tweeks but nothing special. They can never explore, much less admit what the Higher Criticism of real theology has known for a hundred years about the mythology of the Bible and the problems within the texts, background, authors, forgeries, politics and conflicts in scripture easy to see if only one had the guts and curiosity to do so. The price is too high and it is too disturbing to think the Bible was not written by the very mind of God and contains a code that only the called can unlock. The average congregant has little or no use for it as it would disrupt their simple faith though faith often has to give way to facts.
Religion is the outcome of our human fear about "what is going to happen to me when I die?" We are the only conscious and aware being on the planet that can think of the past and worry about the future. The worry produces solutions that are comforting though not necessarily true. Comforting belief trumps discomforting facts and thus when the facts are presented the reactions of the faithful are usually accusing, scoffing and snark ridden with the appropriate scriptures affixed.
TLA, I visited a congregation of GCI 3 Sundays ago and of the 25 members, most were women except for about 6 men, they still rented a hall, had no minister and the "youngest" person there was around 60 years old. These groups will be nonexistent in another decade or so.
Jim Franks apparently said, "Not only is there a financial responsibility to provide for them when they retire,..."
MY COMMENT - Funny, I thought immediately of Dennis Diehl when I read this before even clicking on the comments.
Of course, where in the Bible did Jesus promise his disciples a retirement? Where is Mr. Franks faith? Who had more faith - Jim Franks or Dennis Diehl?!?!?
My vote is Dennis.
This is an ACOG (like all other larger ACOGs) that are more focused on the physical and less focused on the spiritual.
Richard
Relevancy freshness for Armstrongism was time and date-stamped for 1975, and then it went on beyond the expiration date for approximately another decade under HWA’s leadership until he expired way beyond his own viability. It’s now all a nostalgia act. Intense zeal is no longer possible because of the litany of false prophecies and the sheer age of the participants. There is a difference between believing cataclysmic events will cut short your young life, with young children needing protection, and looking back on raising your family, applying yourself to your career, and retiring, as the WWII generation and their offspring, the baby boomers, have largely done. If an ACOG leader attempts to fire everyone up by using the phrase “three to five years”, most would be thinking “tell us another one”.
The anticipated break out splinter group, the one which got the post-Armstrong combination right, has never emerged. Nobody has been super blessed above and beyond all others, or particularly effective either. The ACOGs that are not actually in reverse are creaping along in crawl gear. Apparently, as in the case of expired medication, some of the groups are dumping the product in third world countries.
We’re all familiar with the phrase “unrequited love”. This is unrequited religion.
BB
COGWA Jim Franks apparently said, "Because of our excellent financial position, we are hopeful to upgrade feast sites, build new meeting halls – you know there are still some areas where the members meet outside under the trees – and to train new leaders in all areas outside the USA. Because we will end this year with a surplus, we plan to send additional funds from this year to several areas in Africa, so we won’t have to impact next year’s budget.”
MY COMMENT - 1) How many feast sites did Jesus upgrade? 2) How many new meeting halls did Jesus build? 3) GHASTLY! There are members actually meeting outside under the trees similar to how Jesus taught his disciples. Sure sounds Biblical to me!
Richard
Theil, Malm, Flurry, Pack and Weinland would have all be excommunicated by HWA. What they do cannot be called Armstrongism.
“tell us another one”.
Which is how I respond to most of your Marxist theology.
Who had more faith - Jim Franks or Dennis Diehl?!?!?
Dennis put his faith in the STP and GTA.
There's been a knowledge explosion in the world, but the ACOGs have, like Herb, chosen not to hook into it. For instance, there's many books on thinking skills and assertiveness. But rather, these churches insist on a military command and control policy, keeping their members in a child like state. This is pure murder.
Naturally, they don't grow, and lack Gods blessing.
They condemn dissident blogs, but it's they who are dissenting against the bible, and against God Himself.
Franks writes: Not only is there a financial responsibility to provide for them when they retire, ...
The "brethren" have been on their own for that forever. Who is responsible for their retirement? They have to fund their own IRAs or 401ks etc. Ministers had the option of opting in to Social Security as an individual, and could have established their own IRAs if they liked. It is now 24 years since the fall of WCG, a lot of time to accumulate a nest egg. These paragons of wisdom have been negligent in self management.
Meanwhile, many retired COG members live on small social security checks, that are still expected to be tithed on and offered on by this bunch. Time for these "ministers" to get part time jobs as Walmart Greeters or McDonalds crew members.
Lake of Fire Church of God on December 27, 2018 at 8:14 AM said...“Who had more faith - Jim Franks or Dennis Diehl?!?!? My vote is Dennis.”
My guess is that Jim Franks had more faith than Dennis Diehl.
Dennis Diehl did not seem to know anything. He went along doing whatever it was he was doing until he got laid off. If he had not been laid off, he probably still would be collecting a paycheck from GCI and still doing whatever it was he was doing. He would like to have been given a retirement income. Now he is an unbeliever who argues against the Bible.
Jim Franks left the WCG after the Great Apostasy of January 1995 and went with the newly formed UCG. Then he left the UCG in 2010 and went with the newly formed COGWA. Jim Franks did not go along with the WCG's apostate Tkaches, or the UCG's apostate goon Kubik, or Rod Meredith's attempt to put his own doctrinal stamp on his GCG/LCG, or any of the false prophet cults like PCG, RCG, COG-PKG, or CCG, or the calendar confusion of Malm, or the sacred names nonsense of others. Jim Franks appears still to believe some things.
Way off topic, sorry.
BB, you used the expression "crawl gear." Is that the usual form where you come from? When I was a boy in Texas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas, the term was "compound gear." Later on, "granny gear" was introduced there, and it is the term used by my mechanic in Wisconsin. My best guess it is formed on analogy with "granny bar," an extra long lever giving lots of mechanical advantage.
Way off topic, sorry.
BB, you used the expression "crawl gear." Is that the usual form where you come from? When I was a boy in Texas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas, the term was "compound gear." Later on, "granny gear" was introduced there, and it is the term used by my mechanic in Wisconsin. My best guess: it is formed on analogy with "granny bar," an extra long lever giving lots of mechanical advantage.
Very interesting to me. I didn't expect the splinters to survive as long as they have, but that's the power of unreasoning belief. I haven't been in it since 1975 in any active support way. I toyed with Dr. Martin for a while but never got into really supporting him. I don't hear anything about what he started and wonder if it's still going.
So many of my compatriots from back then, both in and out of it all, have gone the way of all flesh and I know my time is coming. So is Dennis', BB's, Richard's, etc. This blog will one day cease too because there just won't be anyone around who gives a damn.
Dr. Martin & Professor Anthony Buzzard were the ones I followed out of Herbert Armstrong's church.
“This blog will one day cease too because there just won't be anyone around who gives a damn.”
I’m just about there. I think I will just forget about all these splinter groups and get on with my life. My input doesn’t make a bit of difference, nobody cares and it’s enough. Have a good life, everybody, however you choose to live it. Oh, and Happy New Year to all of you.
"... there's many books on thinking skills ..."
But how many people even outside the COGs read them, and after reading them, do they apply them selectively to certain areas of their lives only? And do they use their new skills against other people's views primarily, rather than examining their own? And do they really practice and review these skills and get good at them?
Religion is the outcome of our human fear about "what is going to happen to me when I die?" ... Comforting belief trumps discomforting facts and thus when the facts are presented the reactions of the faithful are usually accusing, scoffing and snark ridden with the appropriate scriptures affixed.
True, but the same holds for atheists who take comfort in believing there is no God because of their fear of punishment, such as hell. So they quote the appropriate "experts" who have "proven" God does not exist and scoff at the "ignorant" believers.
TLA wrote:
The belief that they have all the truth, destroys progress, which limits new members. I see articles disproving evolution, but nothing addressing DNA which debunks Adam and Eve and British Israelism. By now, I would have thought they would have articles addressing it - I think they have become intellectually bankrupt.
Read this most recent LCG "commentary" giving us the startling new scientific information that God Made the Moon. To call it "simplistic" and "confused" would be a kindness. For one thing, if God made the whole Universe, of course He made the Moon!
As evidence of intelligent design, LCG mentions that the Moon and Sun appear to be almost the identical size when viewed from Earth. But then the article tells us that the Moon was not just made of the same material as Earth; the article explains that the Moon "is made from material from the Earth’s early mantle"! In other words, someone or something radically damaged planet Earth to form the Moon, which is indeed one of several general scientific theories about the Moon's formation, but sounds more like the "tohu and bohu" of Satan's rebellion and not at all an orderly design by God! We should also notice that, assuming such damage was tohu and bohu, it would have been Satan who sized the Moon to produce its remarkably symmetry with the Sun. Oops!
Not only does LCG teach a scientific theory that either makes Satan the creator of the Moon, or makes God the author of violent confusion in the name of creation; it gets other basic science wrong. For instance, the article tells us: "No other planet has such a bright Moon in its night sky.". Apparently LCG doesn't know about Jupiter's moon Ganymede, even though Galileo discovered it more than 400 years ago!
Any potential LCG member who ever undertook a basic study of astronomy would realize that LCG is teaching utter rubbish! Any potential member who believes in orderly intelligent design would realize that LCG is teaching a very UN-intelligent design for the Moon. The article is just a hot mess, attractive only to those who are willfully ignorant or just plain stupid. And yet this is typical of LCG teaching. No wonder the ACOGs, more like LCG than different, aren't growing!
FFS
Your last comment is not correct. I read your comment about being a woman in WCOG. As a former minister, I felt bad about how you were treated. I never did buy into the concept that women are second class citizens. My wife is a very intelligent woman. I just need to learn to listen to her. FFS please continue to comment. I for one do care about what you have to say.
Jim
Love to see David Pack asking a customer "Would you like some fries with that ?" as part of his job
RP- Granny gear was like the low, low gear on the non-synchro tranny (you had to double clutch to keep from grinding) in my ‘51 Ford pickup. I could get rubber, but my poor old flathead motor would be screaming at 25 mph in granny gear. Crawl gear was what I used on the trencher when I worked large landscape projects. When the stinger was engaged and carving the trench, the trencher would be barely inching forward. Quite a difference from granny gear, although both had their applications.
I also drove skip-loaders, and as the consummate hotrodder on our crew, I’d do the occasional wheelie. For all the kids at home, screwing around with equipment is only fun until the inevitable industrial accident.
BB
Marxist??? I thought I got to be Trotsky! You always called me Trotsky! Boo hoo hoo, I want to be Trotsky!
BB
Here is why they will die: Jim Frank's asked the wrong questions. Until they learn how to rid themselves of their arrogant and self righteous pride, the right questions to ask will never come to light.
Well, thank you, Jim. My 35 years in the wwcg were at times very traumatic, but since having left and studied my Bible from the Spiritual point of view, it has done wonders for my faith. Being on my own for the last 17+ years has helped me to become a woman, not a passive doormat. I’m still very much human, but with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, I am much happier and at peace with who I am. Again, thank you for your vote of confidence.
If COGWA really has an "excellent" financial position, why isn't some of it being used to get its name out in the community so people know it exists?
They have no TV or radio. Not even a regular open webcast (one without a password) - or even widespread banner ads, like other COGs.
2.36 PM
The mind is mans tool of survival, so thinking skills should be highly esteemed. The sort of person who buys and reads these books is typically interested in self betterment. Loser types by contrast, rely on their bag of tricks. I've yet to come across a exploitive personality that is well read. They lack the character to do so.
"I've yet to come across a exploitive personality that is well read. They lack the character to do so."
I've seen no end of exploitative academics. Those with character seem to be in the minority.
"I've yet to come across a exploitive personality that is well read. They lack the character to do so."
I've seen no end of exploitative academics. Those with character seem to be in the minority.
8.37 PM
Over 90% of psychologists and sociologists are liberals, so what you say makes sense. Our late social justice warrior Ian Boyne was a book reader. They are like many people with university degrees who lack character. My suspicion is that for most, their book reading is kept within their comfort zone.
Generalize much? These people do not act with one single mind in a hive mentality. Individuals in both groups have different mentalities, beliefs, and personalities, and their actions vary widely. Armstrongism forced its members to interpret the surrounding world in terms of strawmen. It’s time to break things down more finely and to see the world in greater detail. It’s not that difficult to do, just requires deeper thinking. We’ve even seen some people who continue with their strawman thinking after leaving Armstrongism, people who post that “the Jews control the media” as one example.
BB
Please cite the specific survey and data in detail, 3:46. Who is the evaluating body defining liberal, and what double blind survey verifies the 90% figure from the study you are citing?
Unless, of course, you are the sole arbiter and just pulled this figure from your ass.....(or got it from Rush Limbaugh).
BB
LCG - like the other groups - cherry picks the science they like.
The moon commentary links to a webcast about gravity waves and Einstein. This is non-threatening science to their world view.
I challenge all the COGs to address DNA and how it appears to debunk British Israelism and the origins of Man.
(Intelligent design is an alternative theory to evolution - not a backing for 6,000 years of history.)
Personally, I hope there is God behind all this, and we are not some big science experiment.
I have to admit, us humans are fascinating to watch from a safe distance - which may involve other dimensions.
For everything science knows so far, it is very little compared to all the unknowns we have yet to discover.
BB
Over 20 years ago, I recall reading in a self book that over 90 of psychologists and sociologists are liberal. The author complained, pointing out that psychologists treat patients who are mistreated by others, giving them ample evidence of the importance of people standing up for themselves. Yet these same psychologists vote liberal, which is the supremesy of the group over the individual. This is hypocrisy.
Try Googling 'what percentage of psychologists and sociologists are liberal?' There are many articles. For instance, The Irish Times 28 Dec 2018 'Why are so many social scientists left-liberal.'
"Every social scientist I ever met was liberal left....In social psychology, 9o% of professors are liberals and 8% are conservative."
Another article in Scientific America 'Is social science politically biased' March 2016, gives similar statistics.
I've read in other articles that it's even worse than these figures, and that conservatives are abused and intimidated in academia.
TLA wrote:
Personally, I hope there is God behind all this, and we are not some big science experiment.
I have to admit, us humans are fascinating to watch from a safe distance - which may involve other dimensions.
If there are 10 or more dimensions, as some scientists now suggest, then our attempts to understand the universe are going to be as limited as if your gut bacteria sought to understand a performance of Handel's Messiah.
Also, if we are "some big science experiment" then the experimenters may well have created for us an eternal afterlife -- or at least something we will perceive as such. We'll just have to wait and see.
Had you stated that 90% of psychologists and sociologists are less provincial in their attitudes, I would have let it pass without comment. The fact is, those with university educations tend to become “big picture people” which is another way of saying “open” or “expansive”. They do tend to resent Neanderthals who would jerk humanity back into the Stone Age.
I worked closely with psychologists and behavioral specialists on behalf of a close relative, actually over a period of years. Several healthcare entities were closely involved. They kept hammering structure, structure, structure. They also used the phrase “unconditional love”, but structure and firmness which are very conservative precepts were emphasized above all. I just didn’t meet any of the liberals you seem to think are the predominant ones in the profession.
A horrible thing happened during the time leading up to the 2016 elections. Liberals took a hard left, and conservatives took a hard right. This resulted in the greatest partisan polarization that I have ever witnessed in my lifetime. Prior to the election, being just right of center, I was a conservative. Now Trump supporters label me “liberal” because I don’t subscribe to their fascism and 1930s Hitlerian “solutions”.
Maintaining a balanced outlook is its own reward. I reserve the right to define balance along the lines established over the course of my lifetime. It has always kept me ahead of the curve.
BB
LCG's latest telecast (a repeat) "CHRIST VERSUS CHRISTIANITY" is very clever - GW tells you what Christian churches don't do that the original apostolic church did (implies all rather than some or a few), but does not cover what LCG does not do - which is most of what the original apostolic church did.
The original apostolic church met at the temple and in synagogues - plus private hoes when they had to. They probably followed the synagogue worship habits of the day.
Love of neighbor as well as worship of God was emphasized.
Praising God in services - like the psalms do - would have been part of every service.
Congregational prayer participation (Acts).
Everyone on first name basis.
If the COGs want to present themselves as God's true church, I recommend they do an intense Bible study and see where they are not obeying the Bible and start making changes.
Plus times have changed - formal wear for services is old fashioned and uncomfortable.
Worshiping God should be enjoyable.
TLA wrote:
The original apostolic church met at the temple and in synagogues - plus private hoes when they had to. They probably followed the synagogue worship habits of the day.
TLA, there is no evidence that the first Christians ever observed the Feast of Tabernacles or other annual pilgrimage festivals following the destruction of the Second Temple. They did, however, strive to avoid public and private hoes, and all other forms of sexual immorality.
Isaiah 32 speaks on liberalism vs conservatism and alludes to how the vile have hijacked the reputation of true liberalism...then in summary it says the following:
"But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand." Isaiah 32:8
any student of Christs Teachings of forgiveness, generosity and the rejection of the greed, bigotry and mean spiritedness often associated with conservatism knows that God is Liberal in the purest sense of the Word...
c f ben yochanan
religion is the outcome of knowing one cannot save ones own life in a world filled with the constant fear of losing it, whether it stems from threats of evil beasts, evil men, starvation or nature actuated evil...
if we in our modern "progressive" world, with our full bellies, running water, reasonable expectation of peace and safety, etc., etc. were to suddenly regress to a more basic state of existence, and true "natural selection" where the weak and elderly would once again become prey, we (ironically) will once again be petitioning a higher power, and longing for a heavenly, utopian escape...
c f ben yochanan
Anon 5:40 - the original apostolic church was after Jesus went to Heaven, not after the destruction of the 2nd temple. Book of Acts only covers the first 35 years +/-.
Pauls' letters, James, and Peter fall into the time period before the fall of the 2nd temple.
BB
University graduates becoming "big picture people" is a thing of the past. Conservative speakers being banned or physically chased off campus's is one example of this. Have a look at the article "The liberal Arts weren't murdered, they committed suicide" by Victor Hanson Dec 18 2018.
Accusations of fascism and Hitlerian solutions, is projection on your part. It's not the conservatives who try to ban guest speakers, or physically chase them away. Milo Yiannopoulos being a good example.
Rofl, I missed that typo initially. Well, thats a fact, ya just can't turn a ho into a housewife!
From Wikipedia: “Much of the work at Breitbart which brought Yiannopoulos to national attention was inspired by the ideas of neo-Nazis and white nationalists. In October 2017, leaked emails revealed that Yiannopoulos had repeatedly solicited neo-Nazi and white supremacist figures on the alt-right for feedback and story ideas in his work for the website Breitbart. The leaked emails also showed that his book, Dangerous, and many of his Breitbart articles were ghost-written by a Breitbart colleague.”
We have a long tradition in the USA of identifying and neutralizing dangerous subversives and radicals who are a threat to our democracy. In the past, this has included Bolsheviks, Communists, Black Panthers, the Weather Underground, William Shockley, Bob Avakian, and Lyndon LaRouche, just to cite a few examples.
You have made a very poor choice of an individual exemplifying the suppression of free speech. It’s too bad German citizens of the 1930s didn’t suppress similar individuals before the whole nation went crazy.
For the protection of the USA we know and love, Milo Yiannopoulos should be suppressed by all freedom-loving individuals. He’s just as sick as the leaders of the Third Reich.
BB
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