Monday, December 10, 2018

Einstein and the COGs By Wes White


Einstein and the COGs
By Wes White

I recently stumbled across a fascinating quote from the genius, Albert Einstein.  Just before World War II, Einstein was contemplating the history of Europe.  He was watching as the continent was reverting back to the tribalism of the Dark Ages.  He foresaw a new tribalism developing.  Looking back, we now see that that tribalism caused the deaths of millions between 1939 and 1945.
            Einstein said:  
“When posterity recounts the achievements of Europe, shall we let men say that three centuries of painstaking cultural efforts carried us no farther than from religious fanaticism to the insanity of nationalism?”
            When I first read this, my mind immediately raced to the history of Armstrongism (which started around 1933) and to where it is today. 
            Before we examine whether or not Einstein’s observation might possibly be applied to the Armstrong movement, let me attempt to relate my definitions of terms. Because many of us have different definitions of terms.  And, while it is fine that we disagree on these definitions, we should at least understand where each of us is coming if we are going to be able to effectively communicate with each other.  
            When examining Armstrongism, the atheist’s view of “Armstrong fanatical teachings” would begin with things like a belief in God and belief in the Bible.  
Main stream Christianity might define “Armstrong’s fanatical beliefs” as the seventh-day Sabbath and anti-Trinitarianism. 
            My personal definition of “Armstrong fanatical teachings” goes something like this. HWA learned what I believe were good teachings from Church of God Seventh Day.  He picked up sound doctrines such as the seventh-day Sabbath, soul sleep, no immortality of the soul, no ever-burning suffering in hell, no going to heaven, rejection of pagan holidays, etc.  
            But then Armstrong ADDED to that body of teachings.  He added things like Petra place of safety, the Gospel has not been preached for 1900 years, end-time apostleship, anti-doctor/anti-medicine/anti-science, banning interracial dating, three-tithe system, ban on voting, ban on military service, headline theology, etc.  To me, these ADDITIONS comprise “Armstrong fanatical teachings.”  I do not consider CG7’s teachings to be part of “Armstrong fanatical teachings.” 
            Again, you may very well disagree with my definition.  I just want you to know where I am coming from in this post. 
            So, when I look at the evolution of the beliefs of so many who are (or were) followers of Armstrongism, I find that Einstein’s quote aptly describes the transition of beliefs of some of the Armstrongites.  I say this because so many of those who once embraced Armstrong’s fanatical teachings have now moved on to a new love.  
And it is only instinctively that they understand that Armstrong’s fanatical teachings were hollow.  Even to themselves, they can’t openly admit that Armstrong’s additions (his fanatical teachings) had no substance.  Pride seems to keep them from acknowledging that, while they were immersed in these teachings, they were only on a sugar high. 
Today, these folks have found a new sugar high in politics!  The religious fanaticism of HWA has been relegated to a mere secondary love for them now.  Their first love is now politics!  And all of this is clearly demonstrated when you read their current church writings, hear their current sermons, and listen to their conversations before and after Sabbath services. 
 They have not so much replaced their love of religious fanaticism as much as they have replaced its PRIMACY with their new love of politics… and nationalism.  Granted, this is not the state of affairs in all offshoots of Armstrongism.  I believe this change does not ***officially***  exist in UCG or COGWA, even though many of their members embrace it.  (Yes, I personally know some UCG and COGWA members who are part of this new belief system.)   Aside from UCG and COGWA, which officially reject this phenomenon, it does indeed exist in a lot of the Armstrong break-away churches. 
            Now let’s do a disclaimer. 
            Our current President openly embraces nationalism.  This is a fact.  
And many of the Armstrongites are fervent Trump supporters.  This is a fact.  Yes, they enthusiastically embrace Trump’s version of American nationalism. 
            Now, let’s be even more clear.  I am not condemning this.  I am apolitical.  I don’t take sides in secular politics.  I don’t even vote.  So I am not placing any value on Trump’s version of American nationalism.  I refuse to say whether it’s good or bad.   And I do not put a value on the political leanings of anyone.
            Instead, I merely try to make observations.  And I believe I am being accurate when I say that many of the current and former Armstrongites have embraced Trump’s American version of nationalism and that this new political fervor now takes precedence over their Armstrong religious fanaticism. 
            With all of the above in mind (again, without necessarily placing any value on the following), I believe we can paraphrase Einstein and ask the question below about the Armstrong COG movement:
            “When posterity recounts the achievements of the Armstrong COGs, shall men say that decades of painstaking Bible study, prayer, and fellowship carried them no farther than from religious fanaticism to the insanity of nationalism?”
            Again, I am only asking a question.  Perhaps we are too close to the situation to be able to make an accurate assessment at this time.  Perhaps we won’t know the answer until 50 or 100 years from now.  I certainly don’t profess to have the answer.  But I do believe it sure can’t hurt for us to have a civil conversation about this.  
            Please feel free to write me.  Wdwhite49@yahoo.com

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

There are some specialized pieces od pokker software, like Tournament Indicator and Sit and Go shark.
Some iin the most critical factors to think about with heads-up poker strategy when playing different opponents arre adapting,
hand reading skills and discipline. However, there is always
possibility that one of the opponents makes a greater flop which means you should be aware of the fact that
you might no longer hold the best hand.

SHT said...

Staying away from the political side of what is certain to be a posting powerhouse, I'll just focus on this one phrase:

" He picked up sound doctrines such as the seventh-day Sabbath, soul sleep, no immortality of the soul, no ever-burning suffering in hell, no going to heaven, rejection of pagan holidays, etc. "

and state that I categorically reject many of the doctrines listed here as "sound". The reasons are based completely around Armstrong's misunderstandings and lack of theological understanding on exactly what Jesus accomplished at the Cross (regarding the reconciliation of mankind to the Father and the indwelling of the Spirit, to start, and that a Jesus-centered focus on exactly WHAT he did changes everything.) THat's all I'll say on this since this is a political thread. I'll bow out now and watch this thread blow up. LOL

Anonymous said...

Wes White has always been an excellent writer. Well done Mr. White.

TLA said...

I think the genius of HWA was to market some easily provable truths - though some will disagree - and then add the other requirements once he had closed the sale.
I believe we have to look at the whole Bible and also learn from what other non COG Christian groups emphasize, then make our own personal decisions accordingly.
We all need to recognize that as individuals, we will come to different versions of the truth because the proofs to some will be non-proofs for others.
On this forum we get to read many different opinions which- if we are open-minded - expand our knowledge even when we disagree.
The best thing about a managed blog site / forum is the owners can keep the published comments positive in tone.
I belonged to 2 forums in the old days that went from pleasant to vicious.
I have to commend the blog owners for not letting this happen on their site.

Some COG members despise Obama and some despise Trump.
Obama is a personable man with good and bad ideas. Trump is obnoxious (though nice when he wants to be) with good and bad ideas. Typical US Presidents in other words.

Anonymous said...

Well there's two simple ways that this ccan be achieved, the foremost is completely from your
browser without thhe need tto use a special software as well as the other method
is to download a unique software and participate in it from a desktop, are quite easy and simple ways, and also
for those whoo have chosen the download method don't be
concerned beause it will ass simple mainly because it can be to download, install and
play internet poker in the special application that you hav just installed.
Not only is it fun, additionally, it stimulates your head and exercises every part
of computer to come up with aan excellent and winning move.

If you're planning on making that "thee" game
at the place, you will want too take a look aat some Texas Hold'em
poiker table cloth.

Anonymous said...

any cogers what support donald drumpf (who is a false savior) needs to understand the following:

"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect." Mark 13:22

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" 2 Thessalonians 2:3

"And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries." Daniel 11:21

"And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits." Daniel 11:32

"And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed." Daniel 11:35

c f ben yochanan

Anonymous said...

Genius in science has nothing to do with genius in politics or society.

Further, people should read "Albert Einstein The Incorrigible Plagiarist" which proves beyond doubt that Einstein was no genius. He STOLE the theory of relativity off of those who published or presented it first: Voigt, Lorentz, Poincare, Fitzgerald, and Hilbert, etc.

He also stole many other things that have his name on them.

The irrefutable proof of his bald-faced lying and theft and the refusal of the media and academics to acknowledge it speaks volumes about the system and its extreme corruption.

"The secret to success is knowing how to hide your sources" --- Albert Einstein.

Also, nobody else on here will admit to these truths.

Anonymous said...

Nationalism is good. Globalism is the enemy. It's all about a one-world government ruled by elites from far away, an oligarchy, like the non-democratic UN or EU. Just ask the yellow jackets.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Someone named Wes White said, “When posterity recounts the achievements of the Armstrong COGs, shall men say that decades of painstaking Bible study, prayer, and fellowship carried them no farther than from religious fanaticism to the insanity of nationalism?”

MY COMMENT – Apples and Oranges! Comparing Armstrong Churches of God with “insane nationalism” is, by itself, insane. First, there will be no “achievements” of the Armstrong COGS to be recounted by posterity. I suspect this Wes White spent much of his life immersed in the fantasy land of Armstrongism. He tips his hand to his dishonesty when he states “Now, let’s be even more clear. I am not condemning this. I am apolitical. I don’t take sides in secular politics” and then proceeds to making his "apples and oranges" comparison “to the insanity of nationalism” thereby displaying his political leanings. He is NOT apolitical!

Second, the opposite of “nationalism” is “globalism”. The goal of “Globalism” is open borders and to reduce the American standard of living to that of the rest of the world which does not embrace our Constitution and our separations of power system of government. The 2016 election was like none we have ever seen before because (as I have said many times) the 2016 election was NOT Republican versus Democrat; it was NOT liberal versus conservative; it WAS Globalism (Clinton) Versus Nationalism (Trump). Americans chose nationalism.

What is Nationalism as defined by Trump? It is loving our country; it is the common sense that border security is national security; it is loving our Constitution and our freedom under the Bill of Rights; While the ACOGS will have no meaningful effect in posterity and no fruits, nationalism on the other hand has had a meaningful effect throughout our unique history. We live off the fruits of American exceptionalism to this very day. It was American Nationalism that defeated Hitler and the German Socialist Workers Party otherwise known as the Nazi Party in World War II. How is that for achievement, Mr. Wes White? I would challenge this Armstrongite Wes White to answer why he believes these defined elements of Nationalism I am describing here are, a) fanatical; and b) are insanity?

I have to ask myself if this Wes White is just another Armstrongitite clueless about the real world to make such an absurd un-Einstein like comparision?

Globalism is insanity! Although Herbert Armstrong taught “one world government” – in the hands of God it would work but in the hands of man it would be a disaster. A world Socialist tyranny where there are very few ruling elites, and the rest of the population are impoverished masses with no upward mobility. It’s ironic to me that this Armstrongite Wes White embraces by implication the insanity of Globalism while denying what Herbert Armstrong taught about one world government. Perhaps some in the remnant WCG remember what Herbert Armstrong taught about one world government, and that would explain why they embrace Nationalism (Trump) over Globalism. But the fruits of the two in comparison – are like comparing apples and oranges!

Richard

Anonymous said...

There is so much you have right and so much you have wrong. Many of the teachings HWA was right on the money and did come strait from the bible. The Sabbath,holy days, (etc). If you ever stuck your nose in a bible which I seriously doubt, you would know that. You are right about HWA being a religious huckster but what he got directly from scriptures was fine. But, He got greedy like they all seemed to do. Pack, Flurry and a few more live in the lap of luxury while their members lived hand to mouth. The same way as Hwa lived off the tithes and offerings for many years.

Anonymous said...

"their new love of politics"

The political situation in the USA has deteriorated since Herbert died. Now there is a lot more internal hate between left and right than before. So, you have to expect more discussion of national politics to follow. Naturally, being a conservative group, they would have more in common with Trump than Hillary and company. Or, maybe you are a Hillary supporter?


Byker Bob said...

There is a handful of existential threats afflicting planet Earth. There are also additional less serious problems which are global in nature. To resolve and manage these effectively, global solutions are required, global management. Various heads of sovereign states have recognized this, and groups such as the Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission have been set up to discuss issues of mutual concern, and to develop cohesive solutions. These influential individuals are known collectively as "globalists". The United Nations is also globalist by nature. Global cooperation based on shared common interests is what has kept us out of World War III.

Back in the '90s, Talk Radio entered its first boom period. Largely conservative by nature, this phenomenon was embraced by the religious right, many of whom had a fear of one world government based on their understanding of the prophecies in the Book of Revelation. Many of these folks were against the globalists, because they saw them as eroding our national sovereignty through such things as UN treaties, and gradually giving in to the New World Order. Conspiracy theories abounded about the FEMA camps, UN troops, the confiscation of firearms, Halliburton, and the curtailment of free speech.

Armstrongism as a movement overtly and enthusiastically embraced the prophecies of Revelation. Hell, our leaders taught that we'd be virtually presiding over them! We watched for signs of a global government's emergence. Many church members, however, if they were honest, would admit that they secretly did not want the events of Revelation to transpire in our lifetime, that they wished we could do something to prevent it all, or make it go away. They hedged their bets by dutifully attending church, tithing, and doing as the ministers said, but still wished we had more time so they could raise their families and have normal lives. They were the yang to the yin of Armstrongism. It does not surprise me that they would support a nationalist president who wants to make America great again, repudiate encumbering alliances, and reverse globalist policies. Many in the religious right see the US as seceding from an alliance with post-Christian Europe. It does not surprise me that some within the Armstrong movement would tire of the continual failing of the prophecies of doom, and embrace what they perceive as being the antidote for these prophecies. We know that there are former Armstrongites who, instead of becoming Messianic Jews, joining a mainstream church, or becoming agnostic actually joined Christian militia groups.

Armstrongism has been described sarcastically as being the gift that keeps on giving. Its bizarre effects are highly variable, in accordance with the broad spectrum of personalities which were infected by it. Nothing about it surprises me.

BB

Anonymous said...

Well, Wes made some interesting points:

He doesn't know anything, is 'apolitical' and only encourages people to believe as he does … which is he doesn't believe anything politically. He DOES know that 'Armstrongism', which he followed for so long is wrong, as is Donald Trump.

Of course he tries not to influence anyone, hence this writing …..

I am so glad to see that he eschewed anything political as he condemned 'nationalism' as he interprets it. (Wes only calls it 'insanity'). He professes not to have the answers but apparently everyone else is wrong even as he, in his lack of understanding, only asks questions. LOL

The best part, imo, was his assertion about the things HWA learned from COG7, and then at least part of what was added by HWA. (Maybe all). Anyway, what I got from what he wrote is "follow me …. I don't claim to know anything, or even have an opinion, but you need to follow me anyway, because I know so much". "I don't have any answers, just questions, so follow me!" Yeah, right.

Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix said...

I agree that support for Trump's brand of nationalism is rampant among many in the ACOGs. This is especially true among those who have held on to the doctrine of Anglo-Israelism (even in the face of all of the historical, archaeological and genetic evidence which makes plain that it can't be true). Hence, this phenomenon (support for Trump nationalism) makes a certain kind of sense. Unlike Wes, I will say that Trump's brand of nationalism is bad - in many ways, it is even more odious than the brand of nationalism that Einstein was talking about. Like the Anglo-Israelism of the ACOGs, Trump's nationalism is inherently racist in nature. And, in the same way that ACOG members cannot see that about Anglo-Israelism, they are also blind to the hatefulness and ugliness of what Trump is selling. I just hope that this mindset continues to be contained in an aging and declining portion of the population; because, unfortunately, I'm afraid that the only thing that will cure many of them of this fever is death.

Anonymous said...

My parents have been dyed-in-the-wool Armstrongists since the 1960's. I admit it, Herbert Armstrong set himself up as a cult figure, and that was attractive to my parents. They heard him say, over the radio, that the brands of christianity they had been raised with were irrevocably flawed and they would not get to heaven that way, and here's the real deal, with all those problems excised and fixed. And that scared them, and so they believed him. Then he said he was an end-time apostle, at the same level as Peter and Paul, a latter-day John the Baptist, sent to prepare the way for the second coming, and then civilization as we knew it was going to be all over. But his followers alone, they were special, and they would be spared. And they believed all of that too.

And then I came along.

They raised me in WCG and, despite the obvious flaws of both HWA, the corrupt ministry of WCG, and the problems with its biases toward things like racism, I recall them teaching me to be a person of decency, principle, integrity and high moral character. They taught me not to be a racist before I understood what racism was, because God was not a respecter of persons, regardless of the color of their skin. They taught me to look kindly upon those less fortunate than I was, including whatever was the modern equivalent of immigrants, widows, and the fatherless. They taught me to be honorable, honest, modest, just, and to have my sights set on loftier things than mere materialism. And righteousness, recognizable, bona fide righteousness was something they taught me to aspire to. Because God commanded all of these things, and he wasn't kidding.

What's more, they pointed to everything that was "wrong" with society at large, and, part and parcel with the apocalypticism of Armstrongism, said that all those amoral people out there, and all that corruption, all that indecency, that injustice, that unrighteousness, that wickedness, God would soon wipe it all away, and for just cause. They said that we were each accountable to God, and that being judged worthy was the hightest possible priority.

And I thought they believed what I recall them teaching me.

But now, here comes along a man who is the antithesis of all that. He is profoundly unjust, dishonorable, indecent, without principles or integrity, and of the most obviously corrupt and unrighteous moral character. He is an open racist an inciter of hatred and violence, and engages is dehumanizing rhetoric, which history shows is a precursor to mass murder. He doesn't just practice all of this unrighteousness, he is an unabashed advocate of it as well. And in the service of his unrighteousness, he is a liar to such a degree that they've had to invent new metrics to describe it. I mean, either not bearing false witness is a commandment, or else it isn't.

And now they say they believe that too? He's literally the poster child for all the wickedness that they used to say that God was about to wipe away. It's people like him that made Floods and Great Tribulations necessary. Now suddenly the exemplar of all that unrighteousness is the bee's knees?

I'm starting to see a pattern. Here comes another guy setting himself up as a cult figure and peddling fear, they fall for him just as readily as they did for Herbert Armstrong. I don't know what they believe. I used to think at least had some idea who my parents were, but now I'm not sure I've ever known who they were. What I do know is that they can't believe both of these things at the same time.

Anonymous said...


It's called Populism:
That's all Europeans and Americans want now: Halting the momentum of crushing legal & illegal immigration from overpopulated messed up poor countries. Even Hillary finally gets it, advising Europe's Left to get a handle on immigration.

nck said...

Interesting comments sparked by an intelligent introduction by Wes.

Most things 8:36 wrote resonate with me extremely. I wholeheartedly agree with BB. Richard Lake of Fire this time I would probably only agree with after a long conversation and lots of beer.

8:36
That would be my experience.
Yes they are the same people.

I have commented many times that Armstrongism provided a sense of identity for those who lost it or never had it.

I have claimed that most armstrongists were from either foster parents or had a difficult relation with their fathers. HWA provided the omnipresent father figure identity.

Religion itself in general provide(d)s an anchor for lost identity for americans. Whereas Europe has shed it completely from every day life.

I disagree with Wes in his assessment on what was over the top or personal. The history of fundamentalism in the 1920's places armstrongism right in a larger trend from 1928 onwards.

I sojourned among many congregations of whom many first time members actually ORIGINATED from the Word Tomorrow. That is a new world being built on the ashes of paganism which is colonialism. THEN the Empires collapsed and Armstrongism as powerfully broadcasted and preaching in TOTAL accordance with American foreign policy provided a NEW identity for those who had seen real and former empires collapse, being replaced by the American Empire under threat of the EVIL empire.


I wholeheartedly agree with BB.
8:36 Yes they were the same people who embraced the principles BB talked about. Internationalism solving the worlds problems. The UN as the policy arm of the Rockefellers and the State Department. That was the ideology in the 1960's and seventies. The other choice was evil communism.

In my case my parents helped me ascend among the princes of the earth, while they themselves descended into phantasies about sacred stones being taken and rescued from the same princes I studied with. As a matter of fact just the other day in the theater one was sitting behind me with whom in the past I drank beer with.

I hold the leaders of their evil cult responsible for my parents descend into evil phantasies while I hold wcg in some esteem since it provided for a better identity after their world had collapsed completely by the collapse of empire.

BB has described to me how on the surface the fifties were like paradise, new music, nice weather, all stepford wives happy and dandy. In reality they were confusing times. Duck and Cover, old tested values disappeared, society was rapidly changing, from mono culture to multiculture "I want to be in America I want to be in America ....Maria etc etc"

Armstrongism provided for staunch identity, unchanging, unwavering for a former generation,while at the same time embracing a lot of modernity. They were not mennonites. A little bit like the Iranian revolution which to people who are not versed into the subject looks like a move to a backward position a move to the middle ages, while in reality it embraced many new and modern interpretations about revolution and tools that would propel that revolution.. Just like hwa was a pioneer to embrace the latest technology to further his cause while prohibiting females from coloring their face since in his generation only prostitutes did that while forgetting or overlooking the fact that Cleopatra before that had been as powerful as Margareth thatcher or Indira Gandhi and boy we found a lot of make up in Egypt, Greece and Rome. I bet Priscilla had a few.

nck



Anonymous said...

8.36 PM
You might have learnt "to be a person of decency, principles, integrity and high moral character" from the bible, but definitely not from a ministry which you acknowledge to be corrupt. The church taught, and still teaches its members to be blindly compliant to the Gestapo ministry. Principles, integrity, and high moral character is a barrier to minister power, hence not truly taught. Pharisees teaching moral character is laughable. It's a foreign world that they don't comprehend.

Wes, like many others, thinks being apolitical is a virtue. It is not. 'Choose life' means siding with the responsible or least evil party. Being apolitical by not condemning eg, the Nazis when they were in power, would have been an act of evil. If life is precious, then the destroyers of life should be condemned, and its sustainer's praised.

Anonymous said...

December 11, 2018 at 12:05 AM

Correct. You got it right. Populism is when the French rioters chant that they want Donald Trump as president instead of the feminine, liberal Macron.

This is just the beginning of Populism. It is starting all over the globe.

Anonymous said...

It was American Nationalism that defeated Hitler and the German Socialist Workers Party otherwise known as the Nazi Party in World War II.

Nazi is short for NATIONAL socialist. Hitler wanted every country to have its own NATIONALIST state. He had no intention of taking over the world. It was the communists who wanted that. Hitler fought a defensive war against the Reds. That is one reason Hitler was fighting them. Americans never understood that; their media wouldn't let them. America sided with the Reds.

"We are fighting the wrong people over here" --- US General George Patton.


Anonymous said...

"Here comes another guy setting himself up as a cult figure and peddling fear, they fall for him just as readily as they did for Herbert Armstrong."

It's the progressives who incite fear. Fear of "racism" (which is just self-preservation), the Russian boogymen Trump is supposedly controlled by, the Alt-Right, etc.

TLA said...

Anon 7:28 - Nazi Germany was one of the most evil regimes to have ever existed - they killed millions of people just because they did not like their race.
Communist Russia hoped to pick up the pieces before Germany attacked them. Then they were forced to join the Allies.
Unfortunately, the allies even with Russia barely survived WW II and the troops and public were understandably tired of war and let Russia control eastern Europe.
40 years later communist Russia collapsed and the USA did not have the sense under Clinton to form a lasting working relationship with them - so now we have Putin to deal with along with a resurgent China.
As far as US presidents go - it has become a contest to see who can work media best, so I do not expect it to get better under the current system. The Dems will probably end up with a similar style person for their next president - like Ocasio-Cortez for example.
Europe is having similar problems now.
Maybe we should all join Musk on Mars and drive Teslas on the red planet. LOL

Anonymous said...

Donald Trump is not just a Nationalist but a White Nationalist. That is why the negative aspects of his foreign policy is directed to nations of color. That is why he wants more immigrants from Norway. That is why the neo-nazis love him. Hail, Trump!! With arms raised in the Nazi salute, they hear the dog whistle clearly.

White Nationalism and The Donald should play well in the Armstrongists groups. The Armstrongists have long been White Nationalists. As much as Herbert disliked Big Sandy and Country and Western music, he seemed never to recognize that pragmatically, his religion aligned with the Southern States. A Klansman could segue into Armstrongism and never repent of anything.

Anonymous said...

"This is just the beginning of Populism. It is starting all over the globe." 4:15

I think this is true:
The next phase of Populism will be even more volatile/chaotic:
It will be a rebellion by the proletariat against national deficits/debt accumulation:
Overthrowing this will meet stiff establishment resistance & be very disorderly as all political parties are steeped in it: It will mean no more using immigration and sanctuary cities to boost GDP which, in turn, boosts borrowing leverage...until it fails that is, like now!

Anonymous said...

Wes is on target with his observations. For several years, Rod Meredith was not just getting much of his political worldview from Mormon conservative Glenn Beck; he was presenting it as an ACOG worldview, seemingly oblivious to the contradictions between the Beck and Armstrong worldviews. What seemed to be happening was that Sheryl Meredith would watch Fox TV or listen to conservative talk radio, then she would share it with her husband who lapped it up and gave it to his congregations.

Unknown said...

A comment up above from c f ben yochanan at 4:47 PM referred to "COGERS", as a collective term for church members.

I thought "COGERS" were older women who liked younger men! ;-)

My (tongue in cheek) response to Mr. White is "what's the problem, we all know that God is an American!"

Anonymous said...

9.05 AM
So Sheryl intellectually fed Rod Meredith "who lapped it up." That doesn't sound like Rod, but certainly sounds like the church culture of seeing and treating everyone like children.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

I am not holding my breathe that this "apolitical" Armstrongite Wes White will answer my two questions from my previous post. But here it is again, "I would challenge this Armstrongite Wes White to answer why he believes these defined elements of Nationalism I am describing here are, a) fanatical; and b) are insanity?

The other aspect that Wes White either willfully ignores or may be completely unaware of is President Trump's stand for religious freedom in the United States. Trump standing up for religious freedom contrasts with the Globalists and would resonate well with members of the ACOGS. Very odd that this Armstrongite would be unaware of it. But I doubt White considered this variable when he attempted to make his "apples and oranges" comparison between the achievements of Armstrongism and the achievements of Nationalism. Here is a link to the White House which provides the depth of Trump's commitment as a declared priority in his administration:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-stands-religious-freedom-united-states/

Like my two other questions to White, I won't hold my breathe for an answer on how he factored Trump's religious freedom commitment into his observations.

Richard

RSK said...

This word, globalism... I do not think it means what you think it means.

Anonymous said...

The racist dupe @ 6:14 PM wrote:

Hitler was forced to put the Jews in camps because they were robbing Germany of all its financial strength and fomenting communist revolution like they had done in Russia in 1917.

Before Hitler, "the Jews" served in the Luftwaffe with honor, and served Germany's national interest as scientists, scholars, and teachers. Anon 6:14 PM's argument would look very different If Hitler had put "the bankers" and "the communists" in camps, but that's not what he did. If President Trump tried to put all "Armstrong Church of God members" in camps because of the demonstrably nutty views of many ACOG extremists, he would be doing what Hitler did.

Anonymous said...

every evil regime will be defeated, whether it be the confederates or the nazis...this has been true throughout history, and will continue to be true...

Anonymous said...

8.31 PM
That is not a law of nature. It's proved true so far because of God being in the drivers seat. These evil regimes oppressed and often slaughtered millions before being replaced by another evil regime. So I'm not sure what your point is.

Anonymous said...

not a point, but a matter of fact, something that people generally struggle with...

c f ben yochanan

Byker Bob said...

There really was no good presidential candidate for the 2018 election. We were going to eat it bigtime no matter which one was elected.. It was always going to be a race to wreck the economy either through nationalism or socialism. Neither candidate knew any moderation.

BB

Anonymous said...

well, of course: how else can the following prophesy be fulfilled except our beloved nation be in decline and implode, hence opening the way for the world to act upon their desire to punish the country of irael for its behavior towards the palestinian refugees?

"For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city." Zechariah 14:2