According to the Kitchen's, Yes!
If you go to God in prayer and Bible Study, and fasting, you can have a relationship with God! What Mr. Armstrong taught will bring you closer to Christ and God the Father, feeding you the spiritual ministering we all need as begotten children of God. His preaching and ministering will strengthen your Bible Studies, and your relationship with God! It will not weaken it.Now, we can have a relationship with God without knowing of Herbert W Armstrong, but once the knowledge comes into our mind and God reveals to us that He did indeed send forth and anointed a man to proclaim His message and to minister unto us His Words, we are compelled to obey God amd what He says in His Word concerning this. If we deny the man whom God sends, we deny the God who sent Him, and are in fact rejecting the very Word of God because God's Word has much to say about how we should obey the servant of God.
Read Hosea 4:6.Sp what we are in fact saying, is that you can be strengthened and flourishing spiritually, MORE WITH Herbert W Armstrong than without him. We are talling about the next step in conversion, and how we are to qualify to marry Jesus Christ and rule forever in the Kingdom of God!There are wolves seeking to keep you from that next step, and working feverishly to remove any mention of Herbert W Armstrong, the apostle of Christ in our time, all in order to destroy your spiritually. They call it man worship, but they really want your support, and do not want you to do the right thing and support Christ's apostlr. Read 3 John about diotrephes.
22 comments:
I deny that Herbert was a man sent by god. Herbert was a narcissist ego driven man. He didn’t care if the members went hungry as long as he lived in luxury. Herbert was an uneducated con artist. What real man would spend six months at the library while his family went without food? His whole message was to put a guilt trip on members and co-workers to send in more a d more money.
Jim
Herbert Armstrong did not bring SALVATION ...
He did however bring...
PLANTATION
CASTRATION
MASTURBATION
FABRICATION
CONSTIPATION
MOLESTATION
MUTATION
and more!
Garner Ted Armstrong did not bring SALVATION either, but dId bring...
FORNICATION
PREDATATION
TEMPTATION
MASTURBATION
GYRATION
FIXATION
LIBATION
and more!
Pushing Herb is like wrestlers with their "gimmicks." Eg, Jake the Snake, The Ultimate Warrior, The Living Legend. Christians are asked to attend the church with the right gimmick,
Actually, a Christian is one who follows Christ. No gimmicks required.
Someone named Kitchen said, "what we are in fact saying, is that you can be strengthened and flourishing spiritually, MORE WITH Herbert W Armstrong than without him.
MY COMMENT - In the Lake of Fire Church of God - which meets in my car as I drive down the road - Herbert Armstrong is never mentioned! I simply pray to God as I drive. I am strengthened and flourishing spiritually, MORE WITHOUT Herbert W Armstrong than I ever was when he was alive and when I attended his Church. And I am happier too!
The Plain Truth is Armstrong's generation passed when he said it wouldn't pass, and most of those receiving Armstrong's end time witness and warning message are now dead and gone. A whole new generation has risen that has never heard the name Herbert W. Armstrong. What was God's purpose to raise a work that witnessed and warned a generation of people who are largely no longer alive (and those remaining dying off quickly) and allowing a new generation to rise that never received the witness and warning?
Remember Herbert Armstrong said at the end of his life that this gospel of the Kingdom had been preached into ALL the World fulfilling Matt. 24:14. Therefore, the Work is over and there is no need for ineffective competing Splinter groups and HWA wannabees lording over the tithe slaves....IF you believe HWA.
Richard
The Kitchens would be quite right in their assessment if HWA had been who they say he was, and correct in every detail. We wouldn’t be blogging about this. The Kingdom would be here.
Unfortunately...............
BB
One reason HWA is needed by some COGs is for a form of validation and their own lineage in the Mythical True Church. CGI, ICG (while GTA was around) and CEM seemed to do well enough without invoking him. Without Church Eras, HWA isn't really needed.
But, as HWA said, everything breakaway groups teach they learned from him.
Well Herbert was a false apostle, so following him is the quickest way to LOSE salvation.
I'm so glad this topic was raised. Worshiping and copying Herbert and his pride covetousness and lording it over others is disgusting. People who want to pretend that he was godly and sn apostle "just don't get it". I hope Wes white keeps bringing everything out in the open. Herbert deceived people into giving him money. Let's be honest folks. We need to rely on God and not this (dead) man
Richard
In the OT, God rebuked ancient Israel for their moral slide over several generations.
God doesn't give just one warning.
I've just come across the "Sambo syndrome." It seems to apply to the tithe slaves. The ministers are the Massas, and members are the Sambos. I think this more accurate than using the word brethren.
unfortunately there are more than a few folks in the COG that agree with the Kitchens...it's pure idolatry.
Over the years, the Catholic Church seems to have progressively elevated Mary. there was the immaculate conception of Mary, then the bodily assumption of Mary, she was titled, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven, and she is venerated by her followers. The Catholics say that veneration is simply paying respect, not worshipping her. In practical terms, a distinction without a difference. Hasn't some of the Churches of God done the same thing with HWA? He was elevated from minister to Apostle (the ONE and ONLY Apostle). He went from being respected (by some) to being venerated. On Catholic Radio, speakers quote Popes and Saints more than Scripture, just as the churches of God quote HWA more than Jesus or the real apostles. And because of his unique position, he was not to be questioned, lest you be condemned to the lake of fire. So he became infallible, like the Pope. It's interesting that he condemned the mainstream churches, especially the Roman Catholic church, yet there are so many commonalities between it and his church; him and the Pope.
Actually, if you want to prepare for a successful (if amoral) career in direct marketing, Herbert Armstrong's example is well worth studying. Don't "worship" him any more than you worship Tony Robbins or Zig Ziglar or Jeff Bezos or whoever inspires you toward success. Do learn the lessons of how he convinced people to act against their own best interests to make him wealthy.
Herbert 'Kim Jong-un' Armstrong started the North Korean Church of God. It still has many franchises. Their central doctrine is Herbs famous "government is everything."
I don't find the Kitchen's argument compelling at all.
At the same time I was asking the tough questions of Herbert, I was also asking the tough questions of the bible and the bible's god. I'm not saying that Herbert wasn't a thoroughly corrupted evil man, but if the bible is to be believed in toto, (and I'm not saying it should) then Herb doesn't hold a candle to the evils of bible god. Also, assuming he did stuff way back when, he doesn't do anything anymore. Maybe that's a good thing?
Salesmen always want exclusivity. I just don't believe that God limits Himself in that way to working through just one person or organization. It would almost encourage idolatry or hero worship, or for that matter cheering or clapping when a jet buzzed your tabernacle. Spiritual growth doesn't come from a person. It comes from time and experience as do all other types of growth.
Anonymous 5:09
Totally true re the similarities between Mariolatry and Armstrongolatry!
"I just don't believe that God limits Himself in that way to working through just one person or organization."
well, He started out with 12, then 13 Apostles....doesn't sound like He was working through 1 man, does it?
they all say that God works through 1 man, and they are that man.
well, if you have to tell me that you are that man, you must not be that man.
The SDAs have done the same with Ellen G White. You can look to god or to a man or woman in their case.
"government is everything."
6:54 That is the PCG take on HWA.
HWA spoke about "the renewing of the mind" through the administering of gods government. And starting with Gerald Waterhouse perverting that original idea.
nck
Question asked: Is Herbert Armstrong Necessary For Salvation?
Answer? No, but God is! His Son is!
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things (Salvation being one of them "things."), and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." I Cor 8:6
The Kitchener's: "...are in fact saying, is that you can be strengthened and flourishing spiritually, MORE WITH Herbert W Armstrong than without him. We are talling about the next step in conversion, and how we are to qualify to marry Jesus Christ and rule forever in the Kingdom of God!.."
What do the Kitchener's know about conversion? And qualify to marry Jesus Christ? And qualify to rule forever in the Kingdom of God?
One can't even find the word "qualify" in the Bible!
All of the Kitchener(s) will die. How do we know? Each one has sinned (I John 3:8, 4, 8) and earned the wages. Done deal!
So, how does any Kitchener think he/she will qualify for anything, but well, death, which surely they cannot deny? Well, maybe they will strive to get around those wages somehow.
Time will tell...
John
Nck
I recall Herb writing 'government is everything' on a number of occasions. He was simply affirming the church culture. So it's not just the PCG 'take' on Herb.
You must share some of Herbs morally challenged traits, to be acting as his self appointed whitewasher.
'Gods government' is code for being lorded over by the ministers. That this somehow 'renews' members minds is laughable.
9:27
I agree that it turned out that way for you and many others.
My interpretation of "government" during my 20 year stint in wcg was that all private initiatives in this world are insignificant in regards to solving the worlds troubles if governments do not cooperate.
I have witnessed MANY aid programmes and starvation in nations that coyld have been solved easily and efficiently if not political choices by the respective governments prevented practical solutions and saving their inhabitants.
This is indeed a world held captive.
All that "live aid" nonsense while the ethiopian government caused their own people to die in the eighties. I,ve seen the aid rot in the ports.
GOVERNMENT IS EVERYTHING.
nck
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