Wednesday, June 5, 2019

Reg Borrow: CAN A PERSON LOSE THEIR SALVATION?

One of the biggest weapons the church leadership used against members was to threaten them with the thought of losing their salvation because they disagreed with something the church said. Church members were cosntanly worrying about whether they were "going to make it."  Modern day Pharisees bang away on computer keyboards in their kitchens laying down the law and threatening anyone who does not follow THEIR demands, clamining they are at risk of losing their salvation and the ability to become "God."

          



 CAN A PERSON LOSE THEIR SALVATION?

By Reg Borrow 

No! If he could, then he only had "PROBATION" and not "SALVATION"

The very meaning of "SALVATION" is being saved from the penalty of my sins (which is death in hell) and instead, possessing eternal life.

                               If I'm Saved From Hell,
                               Then I Will Never Be In Hell!
                               If I have Eternal Life,
                               Then I Will never Suffer The
                               Second Death - The Lake Of Fire!

The assurance of our salvation is not left up to reasoning, thank the Lord. God has promised us salvation upon faith in His Son and He keeps His promise all of the way. The guarantee is given in Ephesians 1:13,14 where it is not only written down for us but we have already been given a security deposit -
"IN WHOM (CHRIST) YE ALSO TRUSTED, AFTER THAT YE HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION; IN WHOM ALSO AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED, WE WERE SEALED WITH HOLY SPIRIT  OF PROMISE, WHICH IS THE EARNEST (DOWN PAYMENT) OF OUR INHERITANCE UNTIL THE REDEMPTION OF THE PURCHASED POSSESSION UNTO THE PRAISE OF HIS GLORY."
This security deposit lasts until Jesus Christ comes and takes possession of (us) His purchase. By the Holy Spirit, therefore, we are:  (Ephesians 4:30)

                "...SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION."

After teaching the doctrine of our salvation in the first eight chapters of the Book of Romans, Paul asks four questions and gives four answers which guarantee that our salvation cannot be lost.

    1) Romans 8:31 "IF GOD BE FOR US, WHO CAN BE AGAINST US?"

Paul argues that God has not held anything back from us. He has already given the dearest thing to Him--His Son--for our salvation. Therefore, if he has already given His Son for us, He is not going to lose us now!

    2) Romans 8:33 "WHO SHALL LAY ANYTHING TO THE CHARGE OF GOD'S ELECT?"

Here Paul argues that if it is God who has declared the believer righteous, then no one can say otherwise!

    3) Romans 8:34 - "WHO IS HE THAT CONDEMNETH?"

Now Paul argues that if Jesus Christ died to save us, and He is risen, making intercession for us, then no one is capable of lodging a complaint against us.

    4) Romans 8:35 - "WHO SHALL SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF CHRIST?"

Finally Paul argues that nothing can separate us from Christ's love. Remember, death is separation from God. The very meaning of not being separated from Christ's love implies not being separated from Him!

The reason given for the impossibility of being separated from Jesus Christ is because we are...

         "MORE THAN CONQUERORS THROUGH  HIM THAT LOVED US"

In Roman 8:38 Paul says he has a settled conviction about Eternal Security. No person, (not an angel nor yourself) will get between Jesus Christ and His love for you. Not even time ("THINGS PRESENT, NOR THINGS TO COME") will change anything. That's security!

                                                            * * * * *
Concerning verses that seem to teach a person can lose his salvation, let me say this. there are verses in Matthew, Mark, and Luke that indicate a person must "ENDURE TO THE END" to receive life. The book of Hebrews also warns against "FALLING AWAY." Here again, "RIGHTLY DIVIDING " the Scriptures is a must. 

The "enduring to the end" is a reference to the future tribulation that will come upon the earth as a means of judgement upon Israel for rejecting her Messiah. It is also a means whereby God will weed out and destroy the unbelievers from the earth to purify Israel and to set up the promised Kingdom on earth. We who live in this present age of grace will not even be on earth during this time because God has promised that we will "OBTAIN SALVATION" before this time begins - see  I Thessalonians 5:9 and II Thessalonians 2:13, 14. So again, God has completely provided for our security.

Concerning the warning of "falling away" in the book of Hebrews, first know that the Book of Hebrews is written to the Hebrews – Israel. Secondly, the Book of Hebrews follows the Books of Romans through Philemon which are the revelation of the interruption in God's dealings with Israel. When the age of grace is over God will continue where He left off dealing with the nation of Israel. Therefore the Book of Hebrews is a warning to the Nation of Israel not to "fall away" from following Jesus Christ during the tribulation.

According to II Corinthians 6:2, today is not a day of God's wrath (the tribulation); but instead:

                            "...NOW (TODAY) IS THE DAY OF SALVATION."

                                            ----------------------------------

WHAT IF A PERSON SINS AGAIN AFTER BEING SAVED ? 

There really is no question about it, you will sin again after being saved. I was saved at about age 23. Therefore, the majority of sins I've committed have been since I've been saved. I am now 65.

The very basic understanding of the gospel answers this question. The gospel is the good news that Jesus Christ died for my sins. Jesus Christ paid for all of my sins - past, present, and future. He left no sin unpaid. This is the very meaning of "REDEMPTION" - I'm free from hell because Jesus Christ paid the price for my salvation. "PROPITIATION" tells me that I am accepted in to the family of God because God the Father was satisfied with the payment Jesus Christ made for me on the cross. Therefore I can enjoy total and complete forgiveness from the moment I trusted in Jesus Christ as Saviour. This is what the term "REMISSION" has taught us.

The Scriptures teach me that if (or when) I sin, I ought to recognize it to be contrary to  what God would have me to do. Thank Him for the forgiveness in Christ. Correct the wrong, and go on living for the Lord.

                                                   -----------------------------------

From a Radio Bible Class booklet entitled, "Safe and Secure, the Permanence of Salvation."

"What did Paul mean when he referred to falling from grace?  (GAL 5:4)  This is threatening but it doesn't refer to a loss of salvation already received. There are at least two possibilities. It could refer to the Judaizers, who believed that salvation came ultimately through keeping the law.  If such persons turned away from Christ, whom they had never really learned to depend on, they would be turning away from their only hope of salvation."  

"Another possibility takes into account what Paul described in Galatians  3.  There the apostle talked about Jewish Christians who accepted Christ in order to be saved, but made the mistake of thinking they could go on to maturity by keeping the law.  Paul made it clear that they needed to trust the same Spirit of Christ for perfection and maturity as they did for salvation.  If they didn't, they would fall from the principle of grace.  They would not lose their salvation, but they would lose the undeserved power and enablement of God, which first leads to salvation, then to true Christian experience."

(Comment: I am convinced of the truth of eternal security--salvation is a gift from God, not something we can earn or lose based on our works.)

Observation: The second paragraph quoted seems to describe me.  I received/ recognized/ accepted Jesus as my savior but then sought to "go on to maturity by keeping the law."  The result was losing the "power and enablement of God" and missing out on "true Christian experience."  Thank God my salvation was secure, despite my wrong beliefs!  Praise God that I'm beginning to truly experience the Christian life!

Question: Do you think the second paragraph describes the general state of "old" WCG?   "nominal" Christians in/out of WCG yet today?

Here are some more scriptures about Eternal Security.
1Jo 5:9  If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater. For this is the witness of God which He has testified about His Son. 
10 ¶ He who believes on the Son of God has the witness in himself. He who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he does not believe the record that God gave of His Son. 
11  And this is the record, that God has given to us everlasting life, and this life is in His Son. 
12  He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 
13  I have written these things to you who believe on the name of the Son of God, **that you may know that you have everlasting life**, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God. (MKJV)
Joh 3:15  so that whosoever *believes* in Him *should not perish*, but have everlasting life. 
16  For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:36  He who *believes* on the Son *has everlasting life*, and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him. (MKJV) 
Joh 5:24  Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes on Him who sent Me has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but has passed from death to life. (MKJV) 
Joh 6:47  Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes on Me *HAS everlasting life* .          
Has now! Present tense.
Joh 6:54  Whoever partakes of My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (MKJV)
Joh 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me (MKJV)
28  And I give to them eternal life, and *they shall never ever perish*, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
29  My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and *no one* is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.
The no one can also include ourselves.
Joh 17:2  even as You have given Him authority over all flesh so that He should give eternal life to all
You have given Him. (MKJV)

And remember.
Php 2:13  For it is God who works in you both to will and to do of [His] good pleasure. (MKJV)
Php 1:6  being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ, (MKJV)
And this is an  assurance by God that He will not take our names out of the Book of Life.
Re 3:5  The one who overcomes, that one will be clothed in white clothing. And *I will not* blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (MKJV)

23 comments:

Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix said...

If a boat comes along and rescues a person who is about to drown in the ocean, hasn't that person been saved? If the weather is good and the captain's motivations/intentions are good and honorable, we can assume that the person will make it back to land safe and sound - without further incident. However, what if the person who has been saved suddenly stands up in the boat and jumps back into the water and drowns? Is the person still saved? Did the captain take that person's salvation away from him/her?

What About The Truth said...

Can you lose your promise of salvation for continually doing what you are supposed to do? NO.


Can you lose your promise of salvation for doing what you shouldn't do? Absolutely yes.


Can you lose your promise of salvation because you don't follow a man? NO.


Can you lose your promise of salvation for following the wrong man? Absolutely yes.

Anonymous said...

Miller, I have to agree. Jesus saved us from sin... Jesus will NOT save you from rejecting him.

Wake up people this is really simple.

Anonymous said...

Hebrews 2:3 "how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,"

These people knew Jesus and his salvation. It wasn't sent to unbelievers.

If you neglect your salvation you are choosing to walk away from. Its a choice... Something Jesus won't take away from you. Jesus doesnt put you in a prison after you accept him as your savior.

You can choose to not be saved. It takes a lot of hand waving and twisting of words to claim otherwise.

nck said...

I should read up on the theoretics but I like Miller Jones's riddles better.

On the 6th of July many 1944 young impressionable brainwashed german lads defended the shores of normandy. If they had succeeded in brainwashing more people and rejected the allies in such manner that the landings had failed, would it have gone down in history as the greatest "Attempt" ever, or as a "saving operation?" Perhaps Operation "Market Garden" was the greatest "attempt" ever.

The age old question is if someone led an exemplary life and kisses the neighbor lady, falls from a chair and breaks his neck, is the person going straight to hell? If the person leads a sinful life and "accepts jesus" on the last breath, is he going to heaven?

The other day someone suggested that man should "earn respect from the billions years old angels to rule over them."

I thought about that and have come to the conclusion that mankind is called to a life of "suffering." And that even the "birth process through narrow channels" would already earn the respect of angelic beings, or perhaps the exposure to moronic music mummy listens to and we already are exposed too in the womb, getting our wiring all wrong...........

It is only through this suffering mankind is able to "build character", personally and collectively as each generation is a better version of the former. (even the majority of d day heroes may have been mysoginistic racists by current standards before they embarked, even if they ALL deserve a place in the Kingdom now by my standards).

Anyway, mans "suffering" would thus build character that NO angel is able to build, therefore man would be suitable to be salvaged and lead another better creation.

nck



nck said...

In my previous posting I mentioned "building character." Since that is such an "armstrongist buzzword", that might distract from my point regarding "salvation to what end" I would like to clarify that "human suffering" (which I defined as "simply existing", could serve the purpose of a) building character as defined as building empathy. Only human life with its pro's and cons and its suffering builds real empathy and is therefore superior to "angelic life".

Moreover if one wishes to avoid too much suffering, then one must learn to accept that everthing is temporary. Even debilitating disease, bodily impairments, or the holocaust are temporary in the great scheme of things.

I guess this understanding about empathy, the superiority of (the purpose of) human life versus angelic life and and the understanding about how temporary everything is and non attachment to the material. (WHICH WAS A LESSON OF THE AUDITORIUM BUILDING being built just "months before the end would come") is what drew the budhist monks toward wcg.

(Or as I have wondered that jesus might have been influenced by older eastern philosophies through the main trading capital city sephoris where he and his father built many edifices a major hub just miles from nazareth not mentioned in the bible at all and therefore by its absence in the NT absolute proof that jesus spent a lot of time there)

nck




Anonymous said...

Being saved simple means to be saved from the penalty of sin. The truth is that just one sin disqualifies us from salvation. If I become saved and I can become unsaved by sinning then the very next sin that I commit would cause me to become unsaved. The sacrifice of Jesus paid the penalty for "all" our sins. So if you become saved by accepting the sacrifice of Jesus you are saved no matter how much you sin after becoming saved. It is up to you how much you want to follow the lead of Jesus in your life after you become saved. Following Jesus will give you the faith and strength to overcome sin but it won't cause you to be perfect. God will see you as perfect because you are covered by the perfect sacrifice of Jesus who alone was perfect.

jim said...

I believe it comes down to whether your repentance and conversion are true. I like Miller’s analogy but I’m not sure I agree with it. What if, instead,a man is drowning and a mighty Lord removes the water? He saves the drowning man and removes that (sins) which was drowning him.

DennisCDiehl said...

Anonymous said...
Miller, I have to agree. Jesus saved us from sin... Jesus will NOT save you from rejecting him.
Wake up people this is really simple."

Can you lose your salvation because "prove me now herewith" was the challenge and it can't be proved, verified or authenticated in any real way that cannot be explained by natural means?

Can you lose your salvation with the challenge of "prove me now herewith" in tithing as admonished and see nothing the "windows of heaven"?

Can you lose your salvation for noticing the results of having hands laid on thousands over decades where the sick were made well and the "sin" of getting sick was forgiven?

Can you lose your salvation because "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" are not clearly seen at all and what has been discovered as the actual way and times gone by things have come to be terribly contradicts the text?

Can you lose your salvation for noticing that the promises of Jesus coming soon, quickly and the Revelation of things which must shortly come to pass, has passed over 2000 years ago and were simply as untrue for them as it will be for us?

Can you lose your salvation for seeing the many contradictions in the Gospels and the obvious problems they cause in credible accounting of supposed conversations and events?

Can you lose your salvation for understanding that the Bible was assembled by the votes of men competing for prominence and an orderly religion for all concerned...and banish the losers?

Can you lose your salvation for seeing that creations stories, while typical of Bronze age perspectives are not literally true?

Can you lose your salvation for understanding that the story of Adam and Eve has meaning but is not literally true nor the origin of human beings, which was never the intent of the story in the first place?

Can you lose your salvation for being a sincere seeker of what actually is true as opposed to accepting the myths, fairy tales, unprovable stories and unheard conversations that can never be proven true just because they are written in a book thousands of years ago?

Can you lose our salvation by noticing the, while God might not be the author of confusion, religious doctrine and beliefs are nothing but confusion and evidently dependent on which scriptures and books of scripture you read and like?

Can you lose your salvation for disbelief of the unbelievable?

Wake up people. This is not as simple as some would have you believe

DennisCDiehl said...

and too....

Can you lose your salvation because the Book itself tells you it's true and any checking on if it is true puts you in God's category of scoffer, having one's acquired wisdom labeled foolishness with God and a way that might seem right but ends in death and being laughed at by the never to be actually seen Deity for thinking otherwise?

Can you lose your salvation for thinking that Eternal Punishing or Punishment, who cares, for not "getting it" in a very thin slice of time compared to the amount of all time passed and future is a bit overkill? To be precise scientifically, the human experience as a whole is .0000444 % of all time passed and the individual human time on earth doesn't even register on my calculator.

Can you lose your salvation for having seen, learned, experienced and suffered through God's middlemen of Prophets, Priests, Kings, Watchers, Witnesses, Disciples, Apostles as well as sprinkling of Elijah's, Zerubbabels and fools

Can you lose your salvation for concluding that if all this is so incredibly important to get "right" and the consequences of getting it wrong are so terrible and eternal, it might have been better for the real Deity to simply show up, prove itself herewith and explain how good it going to be now that we exist?

Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix said...

Dennis,
I know that a great many Christians believe that the answers to your questions could negatively impact a person's salvation. I don't. This is one of the central problems of "organized" religion.
In my view, it is extremely arrogant to think that what we believe about this or that doctrine matters very much in the great scheme of things. God's reality is whatever it is, and anything which contradicts that reality is wrong (irrespective of what you, I or anyone else thinks about it).
For whatever reason (and we all have our own guesses about what those might be), God has NOT chosen to give us the answers to all of the questions. Hence, I fail to see how we could "lose" our salvation for not knowing something which God has chosen not to reveal to us.
This post was arguing the question posed using the "good" old "tried and true" method of proof-texting. I chose to respond by asking some questions. In light of the fact that you appear to reject the Bible and Bible God, I find it a little incongruous that you've chosen to address such a post. In other words, if you don't believe that salvation is possible, why weigh in on a discussion about whether or not one can lose it?
Some Christians believe in universal salvation, others believe that only a few will ultimately be saved (and both sides claim to derive their answers from Scripture). For those of us who believe in salvation through Jesus Christ, it may be interesting to speculate and argue about the answer to the question posed above; but is it essential to our individual salvation that we do?
You asked why God doesn't "simply show up, prove itself herewith and explain?" Could it be that God intended for us to explore these topics and arrive at our own conclusions - even if many of them end up being wrong? In other words, is the process itself important? If "He" did show up and hand us everything on a silver platter, what would that do to the concept of free will or any role that we might play in the matter? Wouldn't that render this life an exercise in futility? Is it possible that we were designed to "prove all things?"

Dennis said...

ATTENTION BIKERBOB
I BELIEVE I WILL BE PASSING THRU IF MY INFO IS CORRECT AFTER THE WEEK OF JUNE 24 TO 28TH. COFFEE/DINNER? NOW OR NEVER😊 DennisCDiehl@aol.com if you wish Love to meet

Anonymous said...

Dennis gives us an acerbic but valid indictment of traditional Christian belief. Soteriology, as Dennis characterizes it, is a kind of game where one must guess the right path to follow and your chances of doing that are well nigh impossible and can be painful.

It is worthwhile to notice that Dennis' view of salvation is firmly rooted in Pelagianism - the grand error of Armstrongism. It is all about what one must do to acquire salvation. At least, based on what Dennis has written above. This overlooks the much more inclusive and ecumenical approach that now is present in the Christian church broadly. "Getting it right" is the performance based obsession that some people were taught at Ambassador College.

As an evangelical universalist, I see no issues here. In the apokatastasis, all these wrinkles will be ironed out.

Anonymous said...

This article advocates the protestant doctrine of universal salvation.
If I believed it, I wouldn't be pushing these aging bones to go to the gym.
Among other things, I gotta earn the respect of these 13 billion year old angels.

Anonymous said...

To be precise scientifically, the human experience as a whole is .0000444 % of all time passed and the individual human time on earth doesn't even register on my calculator.


To make the figure more manageable, perhaps blog visitors could think of it this way. If you accept modern science and the Bible, it appears that planet Earth is roughly 4.7 million Methuselahs old, and Earth has existed for about 1/3 of the time the universe has existed. Detailed written records more extensive than wall-scratches go back no further than eight Methuselahs. Even those are sparse and unreliable before the most recent three Methuselahs, and even within the last Methuselah we have seen plenty of "fake news" written by conquerors and despots and madmen. All throughout this time, only within the last Methuselah have more than a few specialists received enough education to be able to read those sparse and dubious writings.

Within that environment, what do you think of a deity who would base your "reward" on whether or not your personal beliefs matched those of any particular prophet, priest, or apostle?

Which society would function more smoothly: one in which everybody found a prophet to follow, or one in which everybody rejected prophets but took care of the widows and orphans around them?

Anonymous said...

nck wrote:

It is only through this suffering mankind is able to "build character", personally and collectively as each generation is a better version of the former.

I often wonder whether, in another 200 years or so, angry youth will demand that statues be torn down of such evil people as Florence Nightingale, Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King Jr., Lincoln, Churchill, etc. ... because those violent, hateful, bloodthirsty barbarians ate the flesh of other living beings ? Even some Christians today notice that God doesn't label animals as food until Genesis 9, and that what God gives Adam and Eve to eat does not directly mention animal flesh as food. Even as recently as 50 years ago, vegetarianism seemed odd in Christian circles, but now there is a strong trend toward veganism even among many Christians. If that trend continues, how will a vegan society look back on ancestors who ate meat? Even slave-owners did not EAT their slaves!

Anonymous said...

So, this means all our "favorite" Apostles/Evangelists/Pastors of yore in the WCGs will get a free pass for the atrocities they knowingly forced on us? How does that work? Maybe penance of say, 1,000,000 years then clear on to immortality? I always wondered how that worked with Hitler and other mass murderers? In the end, I don't lose any sleep over if I live forever or not. I'll never know until it happens or doesn't.

nck said...

12:39

I'll raise you this to complicate matters.

Hitler never killed a person during WWII. As a matter of fact he was quite an austere vegetarian and a gentleman to his sectetaries.

How do you solve that??

Did you ever cheer fox news images when some drone navigator in Florida central command flattened an Afghan village celebrating a local wedding because forward control mistook the gunfire for incoming??

That drone navigator drove home at 7 in the morning and in the afternoon took his kids to baseball.

I guess we all did put that spear in jesus' side. I know I did, for sure.

Nck

Anonymous said...

Anon, June 6, 2019 at 12:39 PM, asked 3 questions:
"......So, this means all our "favorite" Apostles/Evangelists/Pastors of yore in the WCGs will get a free pass for the atrocities they knowingly forced on us? How does that work? Maybe penance of say, 1,000,000 years then clear on to immortality? I always wondered how that worked with Hitler and other mass murderers?......"

The answer is shown, by Paul's inspired words, to be in the form of a simple equation:

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death..."

If transgress the law, then what?
Sin, that transgression, is sin, whether little (e.g. stealing a pencil) or huge (e.g. murder).

And wages are received. What are those wages? Death.

That's it! No free passes for anybody! And if that weren't enough it has been appointed for each of us to die once. There is no getting around that, try though you may.

We all have sinned, and we will all die.

End of story? No! There is more!

Romans 6:23 "...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

How so? Christ our Passover sacrificed for us! Without that sacrifice (means killing, and Christ was murdered: still a killing), each of us would remain dead forever.

Additionally, God is not into any double jeopardy with humans, so when God brings all of us back to life again, all come up sinless (Remember, only wages were death, and that was already accomplished).

The picture gets a little more complicated, b/c God, by His Spirit, will grant repentance/change of our hearts, but no need to again dish out any death wages to humanity.

Satan and his Angel's? Another story b/c they were made to eventually be destroyed. God's will be done on all of this.

Anon concluded with writing: "...In the end, I don't lose any sleep over if I live forever or not. I'll never know until it happens or doesn't..."

No problem. You don't have any "need to know," and it isn't worth losing sleep over it anyway, b/c time will tell...

John

DennisCDiehl said...

Not to be annoying to all but the "Wake up people. This is really simple" irked me :)

Anonymous said...

Dennis your heart is filled with hate. That is how you will lose your salvation. Jesus said forgive your enemies. Many won't do that and will lose their salvation because Jesus forgave his enemies even as they were killing him.

Jesus teachings are simple. He said to call someone a fool, something it seems you have done a lot of, is worthy of the loss of salvation if you are full of pride that you can't admit your own errors.

It is simple , Jesus wants everyone saved not just the highly educated.

Anonymous said...

I believe this issue has some relation to Christian baptism too and whether one is “born again” now or, as HWA/WCG believed and taught, “born again” in the future resurrection. I’m inclined to believe we are “born again” at our baptism. Paul, Peter and John describe us already “being born again” and as “children of God” or “sons of God” (Rom 8:16; 1 Pet 1:23; 1 John 3:2) in the present tense (i.e. here and now) even though we don’t know what our final makeup will be. Of course at the resurrection we will be confirmed as children of God being “children of the resurrection” (Lk 20:36). So Idk but maybe someone else might be able to shed further light on this (e.g. Yes and No to HWA usually has some solid insights he shares)? Thanks in advance! :-)

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,June 7, 2019 at 4:53 AM, said...
"I believe this issue has some relation to Christian baptism too and whether one is “born again” now or, as HWA/WCG believed and taught, “born again” in the future resurrection. I’m inclined to believe we are “born again” at our baptism......So Idk but maybe someone else might be able to shed further light on this......Thanks in advance! :-)..."

Jesus Christ has more to say:

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Anon, how much like the wind are you? Did you become invisible at your baptism?

HWA in his book, Mystery of the Ages, explained the difference between being begotten and "born again." HWA mentioned the "spirit in man;" however, he never addressed the following "spirit in man:"

"Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?" James 4:5

That spirit was not only in James (who I assUme you believe may have been "born again,") but in Jesus (who was made flesh_John 1:14)) as well.

Since you believe you are born again, what about that "spirit that lusteth to envy" that is within you? What happened to that? Is it still there?

How about Jesus? What about Him? He was baptized and did not, unlike you, claim to be "born again," so how is it that His baptism differs from your baptism and you believing you are "born again?"

Again, that "spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy" of James 4:5 exists in everybody...you included...and yes, me too.

Your being "...inclined to believe we are “born again” at our baptism..." does not make it so.

Time will tell...

John