Wednesday, November 27, 2019

Permission Granted! Either Way. Whatever!



The advertisement began, "There's been a lot of talk about hot dogs lately" and then went on to promote a particular brand of hot dog.  I recall thinking, that I had not heard one bit of talk about hot dogs almost ever.  "There's been a lot of talk about ______ lately", you fill in the blank, seems to have caught on as a way to introduce one's view about something that probably no one at all is talking about or asking but the advertiser wants to push his product anyhow.

Welcome to the world of Prophet Robert Thiel, who now has given Christians the definitive answer, which is  "Sure fine if you wish" or "Don't worry of it if you don't, about  it being appropriate or not for Christians to observe Thanksgiving and whether it is appropriate for to be thankful. 

 I am surprised the article did not contain the obvious warning found in Galatians 4:10-12.
10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you. 12I plead with you, brothers and sisters, become like me, for I became like you. You did me no wrong.
... but that would be unhelpful and only open the traditional can of worms associated with this scripture and what it might actually mean. The good news is that his scripture can be used effectively by Jewish and Gentile Christians against each other depending on what constitutes days, months, seasons and years observed, but let's spare us.

The only reason I bring this up the day before Thanksgiving is that there has been A LOT  of talk about this whether it is right or wrong for a Christian to give thanks, on Thanksgiving practically everywhere I go this past week.  It dominates the news and that's all I hear in stores and in the workplace.

Last Sunday and certainly Saturday, churches were filled with near riot conditions begging clergy for the answer to this nagging question, that with the actual Thanksgiving holiday looming, simply MUST be answered NOW, lest we fall into depravation and offending The Most High with our mere human reasonings and wisdom, which we all know is  pure foolishness if we are not careful in our discernment to the answers of such deeply troubling questions. Just don't ask about football on Thanksgiving. 



"The fourth Thursday in November is the American holiday called Thanksgiving. Unlike most holidays observed in the USA, this one is not of pagan origin. Hence, the vast majority in the Church of God (COG) consider it an “optional” (not biblically-required) holiday."

Comment:  First of all we need to get the actual date set firmly in our minds so we evidently don't confuse it with Christmas which, sadly and of course will be addressed far more seriously soon. 

It is not of pagan origin.  That's a good thing and of ultimate importance to understand before going on to answer this pressing question that so many have been talking about. It also does not rank up there with the Biblically required ones either, so get that straight.

The Prophet Robert goes on: Concerning the persecution of the Pilgrims and their coming to America. 



"The persecutions of the Pilgrims somewhat remind me of the history of the Church of God"

Comment:  Somehow we knew it would

The Prophet Robert goes on then nostalgically reminding the savvy reader of the old WCG hymns speaking of, praise and thanksgiving along with a good round of proof texting with a Topical Bible on words like "give thanks", "thanksgiving" and such.  Without those, we simply can have no clue as to what the answer to the question might be. 

In conclusion Prophet Bob adds another piece to God's Puzzle on the rights and wrongs of living on Earth.  He boldly ventures into a scripture that actually more have talked about the meaning of than even hot dogs. But let's keep use of it to focus in on the pressing question at hand. 

"While Christians can observe national holidays, presuming they can do so without sinning, they do not have to keep holidays like Thanksgiving. While he was mainly referring to fast days, the following from the Apostle Paul seems to be applicable here:"

NOTE: Sinning is a function of national holidays, not God's Holydays. And too, Thanksgiving is not like God's Holydays, which you do have to keep,  so let's get that straight from the start. 

Continuing... and seemingly applicable
"5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. (Romans 14:5-6)

If one has a problem of conscience keeping Thanksgiving, then one should not. But, either way, Christians should thank and praise God.

Give thanks and praise the Eternal!"

So there we go!  It's ok to give thanks as a Christian!  Or not!  It depends on how you feel about it but it's OK!  Or NOT! Go for it!  Or NOT! Also, let's be sure our praise and thankfulness is of and for the Eternal and not the harvest. 

Sadly and of course, being grateful and thankful , as an agnostic, pagan or atheist, is not addressed in this article so I don't know the anwer to that question.

But, and may the gods forgive my human reasoning and wisdom of man, which I know is foolishness to Prophet Robert, I will risk a personal gratitude for the harvest even though I don't have to if I don't wish to, but I will so I do and we all should, unless some feel they shouldn't. Do what you wish, or not.

“When you rise in the morning, give thanks for the light, for your life, for your strength. Give thanks for your food and for the joy of living. If you see no reason to give thanks, the fault lies in yourself.” – Tecumseh

So,  Happy Thanksgiving
or not
depending!








25 comments:

Anonymous said...

eh, there are some that teach against Thanksgiving Day....something about being rooted in the "corn baby" celebrations or something like that...go figure.

there is certainly nothing wrong with a day of thanksgiving.

the sad thing is that the American Thanksgiving Day has become nothing more than the kickoff for Christmas, with more emphasis being put on the upcoming shopping season than on actually giving thanks to God for His many many blessings...

after thanking God for all we have, we rush out to the stores the next day (somethings that very evening) and trample each other for more "stuff"...

humans are a funny lot.

nck said...

5:41

That is because Edward Bernays the driving force behind "The World of Tomorrow" fair solved the problem of mass democracy by changing the meaning of "the pursuit of happiness" to "the pursuit of consumer capitalism.........now in the process of being changed into "surveillance capitalism", which is the true meaning of HWA's Rod of Iron World Tomorrow.

nck

DennisCDiehl said...

Agree 541. The trend now is to thank God for all our stuff and then replace it with new stuff we are supposed to buy tomorrow. My view is that such topics are none of anyone's business what we celebrate or don't. Bob needs to find some balance between what he thinks is his God's business and minding his own. No one is waiting with baited breath to find out from Dr Bob what is the right way to be, do or think about much of anything. Or as my dad used to say when he really meant "No, not gonna happen". "I'll take that under advisement"

Advertising tries to stimulate our sensuous desires, converting luxuries into necessities, but it only intensifies man's inner misery. The business world is bent on creating hungers which its wares never satisfy, and thus it adds to the frustrations and broken minds of our times.
Fulton J. Sheen


Consumerism has accustomed us to waste. But throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry.
Pope Francis

Consumerism has become a new religion, complete with its high priests at which and its fatwas against anyone with the temerity to try to sell anything at more than cost price. It is a depressingly medieval outlook on economic life.
Sean O'Grady

Consumerism and nationalism work extra hours to make us imagine that millions of strangers belong to the same community as ourselves, that we have a common past, common interests and a common future. This isn't a lie. It's imagination. Like money, limited liability companies and human rights, nations and consumer tribes are inter-subjective realities. They exist only in our collective imagination, yet their power is immense
Yuval Noah Harari


It is advertising and the logic of consumerism that governs the depiction of reality in the mass media.
Christopher Lasch

Mass consumption, advertising, and mass art are a corporate Frankenstein; while they reinforce the system, they also undermine it. By continually pushing the message that we have the right to gratification now , consumerism at its most expansive encouraged a demand for fulfillment that could not so easily be contained by products.
Ellen Willis

In this state of total consumerism-which is to say a state of helpless dependence on things and services and ideas and motives that we have forgotten how to provide ourselves-all meaningful contact between ourselves and the earth is broken. We do not understand the earth in terms either of what it offers us or of what it requires of us, and I think it is the rule that people inevitably destroy what they do not understand.
Wendell Berry

Consumerism is at once the engine of America and simultaneously one of the most revealing indicators of our collective shallowness.
Henry Rollins

Consumers are characterized by a constant dissatisfaction with material goods. This dissatisfaction is what produces the restless pursuit of satisfaction in the form of something new.
William T. Cavanaugh

Consumerism thrives on emotional voids.
Caroline Knapp

Consumerism diverts us from thinking about women's rights, it stops us from thinking about Iraq, it stops us from thinking about what's going on in Africa - it stops us from thinking in general.
Pink

Consumerism is our national religion.
Jennifer Stone

The consumption society has made us feel that happiness lies in having things, and has failed to teach us the happiness of not having things.
Elise M. Boulding

In a consumer society, people wallow in things, fascinating, enjoyable things. If you define your value by the things you acquire and surround yourself with, being excluded is humiliating.
Zygmunt Bauman


Consumerism has brought us anxiety. Set aside time to play with your children, and turn off the TV when they sit down to eat.
Pope Francis

Anonymous said...

Bob Thiel does not get how incredibly stupid he sounds when he writs this stuff. He is one of the many reasons so many mock the church and rightly so!

Tonto said...

Dear Bob Thiel:

The TOOTH FAIRY is not Pagan either!

(Seriously, it was invented by dentists in the early 1920s as a marketing tool to encourage kids to go to the dentist!)

One source said this:"The first appearance of the modern Tooth Fairy was in a playlet written for children by Esther Watkins Arnold in 1927. While the legend was somewhat obscure in the 1920s and 1930s, eventually it picked up in popularity as Disney fairy characters became household names."

So when you lose a tooth this Thanksgiving from biting down too hard on a piece of turkey, put it underneath your pillow with full delight so that you can get your coin!

AND NO MATTER WHAT YOUR MINISTER SAYS--- TOOTH FAIRY MONEY IS NOT TITHABLE!

Anonymous said...

And Bob's statements on the "history" of the "Pilgrims" are just as questionable as his view of COG history.

Anonymous said...

Tonto, you are truly giving in to paganism. Ask yourself: Why isn't there an Appendix Fairy? A Hair Fairy?

God designed your body perfectly. He would never support rewarding you for the decay of the perfect body He designed.

Now, as for the existence of a Virginity Fairy, that's a whole other discussion...

Anonymous said...

You people continue Amazing me, you're still as judgemental as you were in the WCG.

Byker Bob said...

Hang with us for a while, 11:29. You'll eventually begin to appreciate us and to enjoy life again!

BB

R.L. said...

Is Dr. Thiel SURE that Thanksgiving Day isn't pagan?

James Malm has said that it is. Well, he did a few years ago. He hasn't made a big fuss of it lately, for some reason.

Anonymous said...

Peace be upon you my bros and hoes

Anon said:

the sad thing is that the American Thanksgiving Day has become nothing more than the kickoff for Christmas, with more emphasis being put on the upcoming shopping season than on actually giving thanks to God for His many many blessings...

after thanking God for all we have, we rush out to the stores the next day (somethings that very evening) and trample each other for more "stuff"...

humans are a funny lot.
November 27, 2019 at 5:41 AM

What planet are you from?

The split second Halloween is over the xmas crap starts.


Out


LXX

Anonymous said...

Your quote by Jennifer Stone that “Consumerism is our national religion” is tragically so true Dennis.

I remember watching an interview on a current affairs program several years ago and the professor remarked on the state of Western civilization that has stayed with me since. He explained that the one common tie that binds us increasingly in the West is the “shopping experience.” It was, I felt, a sad indictment of our political, religious and academic institutions and this was in the mid-to-late 1990s. How much worse has it grown since?

I also recall reading at the same time how culture is an extension of religion and, therefore, is a reliable indicator of who or what is worshiped in that society. For me ours increasingly reveals Mammon to be our object of worship.

Anonymous said...

I am NOT a ho!

Thanksgiving is a day that is INTENDED for us to reflect on our blessings and to give thanks for them. I do agree, though, that commercialism is waaaay too prevalent now.

Have a reat Thanksgiving Day, everyone!

nck said...

The one and perhaps only thing PT and I have in common is our esoteric knowledge that Edward L Bernays father of "The World (of) Tomorrow" fair solved a problem of mass democracy by changing the meaning of "the pursuit of happiness" to the pursuit of consumerims.

Today signals a 70 percent dependency of the US economy on the American consumer which in itself constitutes 25 percent of the world economy..............and there was HWA preaching the "unseen hand" of international trade (and something about the world tomorrow as I recall).

nck

Anonymous said...

"The split second Halloween is over the xmas crap starts."


I've actually seen christmas junk in stores around here before halloween....but it's not taken too seriously until thanksgiving...

Byker Bob said...

The best thing for Thiel and all of the others who preach the Armstrong prophecy mold would be for Pete Buttigieg to be elected POTUS.
That'd be a bigger recruitment factor than all of the hurricanes and earthquakes, and forest fires combined.

BB

Anonymous said...

Byker, what would be so troubling about Pete Buttigieg? He's an Israelite whose predilections are no different than were found at WCG headquarters and are found at the home offices of the various splinter groups. You're not going to get much bigger of a recruitment factor than Barack Obama, unless maybe Michelle Obama or Kamala Harris become President after Trump!

Byker Bob said...

You're jivin', right 3:34? Every time there's a natural disaster, the COGlodyte leaders blame it on the gays. What would they be saying if suddenly we elected a gay president? I think they'd be talking about Armageddon with a whole new sense of urgency.

BB

Ronco said...

"What would they be saying if suddenly we elected a gay president? I think they'd be talking about Armageddon with a whole new sense of urgency."


If only good ol' Spanky could have lived to see such a day.

Anonymous said...

He reportedly had to deal with one of his sons being gay, but that has been hushed up quickly.

Anonymous said...

"What would they be saying if suddenly we elected a gay president? I think they'd be talking about Armageddon with a whole new sense of urgency."


God is the One that sets up leaders and takes them down.

sometimes He installs a leader to punish the people...(BHO comes to mind)

RSK said...

And the Foreskin Fairy!

Anonymous said...

"God is the One that sets up leaders and takes them down."

Does that mean that the old cog cliche "Man is unable to govern himself" is really God's fault since you believe that he places every leader in position and most likely don't vote for this very reason?

A concept not well thought out on your part. imo

Anonymous said...

God must drink heavily before he actual chooses leaders. Romans 13 is Roman propaganda

Anonymous said...

Rom. 13 does not mean that God places every leader in that position. If it did then the cog argument that man is unable to govern himself would be totally in error. That argument, which is used against participating in the electoral process is just plain...