Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
And Now a Word From Our Sponsor: Conversing With YHVH
28 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Just one of the many ways you could deduce that your religion was made up by men in case you cared to know one way or the other...
...even though most people don't...
...because if they did, then they'd realize they're not special, they're not going somewhere special after they die, and that they never were...
...and THEN what would they do???...
...so better not to ask any questions or think about the problems, because by keeping your head in the sand, it makes all these things still be true, even though they were never true in the first place, and means you can still have control over things you never had and never will have any control over.
Although I can disagree with the premises, and conclusions of the video, I think it has a higher production value and quality than Bob Thiel's animations!
The Roman Catholic Church and its Protestant daughter churches teach that people have an immortal soul that goes either to heaven or to hell when they die. They teach that people who go to hell will be tormented by burning forever and ever in a hell fire that never actually consumes them.
In contrast, the Worldwide Church of God under HWA taught that people are mortal and that the soul that sins will die. The incorrigibly wicked will be thrown into a lake of fire and will be burned up quickly and be as if they had never been. The righteous will be given eternal life.
The distortion is so dramatic that it actually has some entertainment value. The little droll theater then becomes fascinating in an odd way when one realizes that this may actually be what Dennis thinks about God.
Near_Earth_Object said... The distortion is so dramatic that it actually has some entertainment value. The little droll theater then becomes fascinating in an odd way when one realizes that this may actually be what Dennis thinks about God."
Dramatic to you. And fascinatingly and in an odd way exactly the way I have always wondered about the Biblical story of God and his behaviors in scripture. I have also found most wonder and notice the same things either openly, which is rare, or quietly to themselves unspoken.
So make no mistake. I do not personally believe the Bible the inerrant word of a God, Old or New. The New Testament makes the Old mean what it never was meant to mean. And I while am tempted always to pull my punches at times out of respect and kindness to those of obvious and different beliefs on the existence of God/gods/Satans and demons, I have personally come to believe, taking full responsibility for those beliefs, they do not exist. The Bible simply reflects yet another story giving a cultic Bronze Age people a huge pedigree and in the New Testament, a familiar route, through the gods, to salvation in the after life because we are all afraid to die and then what?
"Disbelief is more resistant than Faith because it is sustained by the senses."
“I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being.”
“Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits. It is intellectual bankruptcy.” ― Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist
“You can cite a hundred references to show that the biblical God is a bloodthirsty tyrant, but if they can dig up two or three verses that say 'God is love,' they will claim that you are taking things out of context!” ― Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist
I personally think there's something better waiting for us. Ignorant goat herders just couldn't fathom it all and write beyond the scrutiny of our more educated times.
Perhaps better said that I find no real evidence that a Deity exists. The phenomenon that the God of the Book of Job demanded Job explain if he was so smart etc can all be easily explained today by the average High Schooler. The questions of that day have been nicely answered where as in that time, no one, not Job or anyone could adequately explain the answers to the questions asked in Job 38 to 40. Perhaps they would have to be asked today as questions about the nature of matter, dark or otherwise. How a Universe or something come from nothing. What is nothing? etc. The fact is that we are learning that what we usually call nothing is filled with particles that pop in and out of existence. Nothing only appears to be nothing to us. No one said the Universe was not a mystery or that we know all about it. We don't of course but our gaps in knowing are not wisely filled with "God did it". We need to explore that for ourselves.
A multiverse? Parallel Universes? Could be. A God somewhere? Could be. Perhaps I simply mean that a cultic mountain/volcano god adopted by the Hebrew people at an obscure time in history, in an obscure place when others gods were just as readily accepted by others seeking the same benefits and explanations of their world is not it.
As someone once noted. The Bible presents "the problem" as this entity that is called "sin". Paul found himself doing what he didn't want to do and not what he should etc. Rather than accept that this is just how humans find real life, he put his personal responsibility to do better onto "sin that is in me", like it was a germ or parasite. The the Bible offers the solution to sin, or else. The comment was that this is no different than someone stabbing you with a knife and then selling you the bandage.
I prefer to defer to Thomas Huxley's observation that it's better to "“Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads or you shall learn nothing.”
...than to just believe what one is expected to believe on faith, which like it or not, is simply going along to get along based on absolutely no evidence that in which faith is put is actually true. Actually true should be important to all of us.
I would have preferred the author of "Without faith it is impossible to please God" had said, "without understanding and critical thinking leading to accurate conclusions, it is impossible to please God." I know, I don't get the luxury to change the Book, but we have come a very long way since it was written and we are far from the world, beliefs and Universe as understood back then. The lack of curiosity in many if not most "I found it!" and "God said, I believe it, That does it for me" types is sad to me. But, each to their own.
The Roman Catholic Church and its Protestant daughter churches teach that this is the only day of salvation, and that those who do not make it now will be lost.
In contrast, the Worldwide Church of God under HWA taught that God is calling only a very few people in this age. The vast majority of people will be called later, after Jesus has returned to earth, and will be given their first real chance for salvation at that time.
Dennis, please don't keep on underestimating the people who were living when Paul wrote his letters. Even 2,000+ years ago, many people heard about the God of Israel, and about Paul's message, and concluded that the "god" being described was an evil being unworthy of worship. Some simply ignored this jealous tribal god of war and weather, while others devised elaborate schemes in the hope of getting past this evil Demiurge and reaching the realm of the True God.
Only a fool would assert that mankind is the highest intelligence in the universe. Something amazing is going on around us, and despite our leaps in understanding we are mostly learning how much more there is that we don't know. There has to be an intelligence at work higher than mankind's, whether that intelligence is inherent in nature or whether it is somehow found in a being separate from and above nature.
What is highly improbable is that there is a supreme personal intelligence that takes offense when you wear a cotton-polyester shirt (YHVH), or that loves cats but hates dogs (Allah), or that despite supreme intelligence can only be petitioned by one particular mantra or another.
I can envision a couple of scenarios, however unlikely, that would be very beneficial for arrogant mankind. Imagine that we discover indisputable evidence of other intelligent life-forms near us in the universe. Islam might survive by identifying those beings with the djinn of the Quran, but Judaism and Christianity would immediately collapse, save for a few Christian fanatics who would either dismiss the aliens as demons or would feel obligated to bring their gospel to the aliens.
Better yet, imagine that intelligent extra-terrestrial life forms come to earth... but ignore humans completely and spend their time conversing with the porpoises and elephants!
Shouldn't good science and good theology both lead us to a place of humility? Sadly, most theologians and far too many scientists become arrogant "defenders of the faith" rather than taking Huxley's position and seeing just how small we are in the presence of superior intelligence, whether you call that intelligence Nature or God.
Couldn't agree more 656.Ever learning and ever closer to the more understanding. The search and journey is the interest for myself. Static never growing church is not.
Dennis, says "Perhaps better said that I find no real evidence that a Deity exists." Instead he believes in fairy tales of Evolution. To deal with his rejection of certain things he knows are true, he keeps posting silly things like this straw man carton.
He knows the Bible doesn't teach most are to burn forever in Hell. And Faith is not blind faith. Romans 1 has to be skipped over because it challenges the reader to check out if the Creator / Designer is revealed in the creation that's all around us .
Today, thanks to real science, the all the cosmological constants required to have any matter in the universe is mathematically impossible to have happened without a all powerful creator. So the "intellectual elites" had to create a new fairy tale of "multi-universes" for which there is no evidence. But no "faith" needed by Dennis for this. He has no choice to ignore the real science. He also has to ignore all the almost infinite extreme design he's sees all around him every day.
He's been blinded by the bad behavior of humans who claimed to represent a Creator. It's reminds me a little bit of Trump derangement syndrome, where anger and hater cloud the mind.
In "The man who would be king", The heathen leader asks the British soldiers after a rifles hot, "are you gods", then Michael Caine replies, "No, we're British, but that is the best next thing.......... "
After hearing this video I learned that God is an Aussie after all.
Oh man.....I just completely choked myself hearing the part where, "the voice" says. I also invented faith. Actually when you believe something completely ridiculous in faith, Then it is actually quite respectable.....
We have been over his turf before. If you want to be an atheist, that's up to you. But your position against Christianity is weakened by the fact that you seem to understand so little about Christianity and its history. You seem to live on a diet of atheist bromides. And your alternative to Christianity is atheistic materialism, one of the least tenable and blatantly inane philosophies in the basket. And I don't know what missionary atheism has to do with Armstrongism.
Nicely spoken 652 I agree with you speculations included. Carl Sagan does a nice piece on "Humility" in science and in life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8GA2w-qrcg&list=PLkg6rgsMo0PdYfFJODjY6GfIoWEtZlbGF
Even as a child I wondered what went wrong with "and it was very good" just a few chapters away when it all had to be rebooted and all but 8 drowned in terror. Fortunately, I have come to see it is a myth and did not actually happen as advertised.
We should know better by now, but our need for security and answers to "what's going to happen to me" are strong. We have no problem not minding the billions of years we were not here. We seem to greatly mind billions of years no longer here. Thus religion.
Even when I was a believer I had trouble understanding why forgiveness of sins required the death of our creator. I also found it hard to understand how someone could never do anything wrong their entire life from baby to adulthood.
Does 8:06 AM believe that the natural world reveals to us a deity who died but didn't really die to atone for the sins of the beings it created? Or would he admit that the natural world may reveal Allah to some, Shiva to others, and YHVH to still others?
No person who is a sincere atheist would have the incentive to write endless articles and comments rejecting belief in God and the bible. Dennis is not what he appears to be. Scratch the surface folks.
No person who is a sincere Christian would have the incentive to write endless articles and comments rejecting disbelief in God and the Bible. HWA was not what he appeared to be. Scratch the surface folks.
Anonymous said... No person who is a sincere atheist would have the incentive to write endless articles and comments rejecting belief in God and the bible. Dennis is not what he appears to be. Scratch the surface folks.
January 14, 2020 at 10:56 AM __________________________________________________________
Like hell. It is people like Dennis who lay out truth to those who don't have a confirmation bias.
I comment about the holy days having roots in paganism and no one replies because they don't want to hear it. Their mind is made up and come hell or high water they won't even consider that they are wasting their lives in a fantasy.
Does 8:06 AM believe that the natural world reveals to us a deity who died but didn't really die to atone for the sins of the beings it created? Or would he admit that the natural world may reveal Allah to some, Shiva to others, and YHVH to still others?
No I don't claim the design all around you could explain a plan of the Creator willing to sacrifice Himself for His creation. As to the choice between YHVH and Allah, the Koran doesn't compare to the Bible, since the Koran is a bunch of disconnected ramblings which contradict each other. (Muslims say they are to accept the last revealed "truths" to override the previous.
But I will admit that after 50 years, I have more questions then answers, but no question there's a Creator.
I share my change in perspectives from my WCG past through the years of thoughtful change. I also fill in the spaces here on Banned, as long as invited to, between the shenanigans of "Armstrongists" and the newer ones. I do feel, however, it should not be a problem representing the Unspoken Splinter. That being the many who have reclaimed the interests in good science done well and being taught, as I was, what has precious little evidence to back it up.
If most here wish to be free of the challenge and just stick Church of God gossip and drama to entertain ourselves with, take a poll and I'll be happy to abide by it. I mean your brain no harm. :)
As often said in the past, I would encourage those of you who could be so inclined to write your own postings and let's have a look at where you currently are in your views and beliefs after your own WCG experience and lessons learned. Anyone can comment. It takes a little more to put your own beliefs on the line for others to see, not to mention who you really are and where your currently might be in church attendance and beliefs.
Anonymous said... No person who is a sincere atheist would have the incentive to write endless articles and comments rejecting belief in God and the bible. Dennis is not what he appears to be. Scratch the surface folks.'
Sure they would. Countless agnostic/atheist individuals on endless websites, books, podcasts, seminars and lectures in a myriad of disciplines do it all the time. Hitchens? Humphreys? Tyson? Dillahunty? Freeman? Fry? Maher? Dawkins? Why don't you scratch my surface for us if I am whatever not what you think I appear to be means to you?
Dennis Since you asked, let me put it this way to your 1.43 PM question. Shortly after I got baptised, my minister on three or four occasions hinted that I did something wrong, then proceeded to verbally bash me. The holy spirit put the words 'fall by the wayside and I'II stop hurting you' into my mind to explain his behavior. I had similar experiences with other church members, and even people outside the church who found out about my beliefs through the grapevine. By their body language, some were in mental pain if not agony when in my presence. So to me, you are like these, but a cultured, intellectualized version.
28 comments:
Just one of the many ways you could deduce that your religion was made up by men in case you cared to know one way or the other...
...even though most people don't...
...because if they did, then they'd realize they're not special, they're not going somewhere special after they die, and that they never were...
...and THEN what would they do???...
...so better not to ask any questions or think about the problems, because by keeping your head in the sand, it makes all these things still be true, even though they were never true in the first place, and means you can still have control over things you never had and never will have any control over.
Sounds like a cunning plan.
Although I can disagree with the premises, and conclusions of the video, I think it has a higher production value and quality than Bob Thiel's animations!
The Roman Catholic Church and its Protestant daughter churches teach that people have an immortal soul that goes either to heaven or to hell when they die. They teach that people who go to hell will be tormented by burning forever and ever in a hell fire that never actually consumes them.
In contrast, the Worldwide Church of God under HWA taught that people are mortal and that the soul that sins will die. The incorrigibly wicked will be thrown into a lake of fire and will be burned up quickly and be as if they had never been. The righteous will be given eternal life.
The distortion is so dramatic that it actually has some entertainment value. The little droll theater then becomes fascinating in an odd way when one realizes that this may actually be what Dennis thinks about God.
Near_Earth_Object said...
The distortion is so dramatic that it actually has some entertainment value. The little droll theater then becomes fascinating in an odd way when one realizes that this may actually be what Dennis thinks about God."
Dramatic to you. And fascinatingly and in an odd way exactly the way I have always wondered about the Biblical story of God and his behaviors in scripture. I have also found most wonder and notice the same things either openly, which is rare, or quietly to themselves unspoken.
So make no mistake. I do not personally believe the Bible the inerrant word of a God, Old or New. The New Testament makes the Old mean what it never was meant to mean. And I while am tempted always to pull my punches at times out of respect and kindness to those of obvious and different beliefs on the existence of God/gods/Satans and demons, I have personally come to believe, taking full responsibility for those beliefs, they do not exist. The Bible simply reflects yet another story giving a cultic Bronze Age people a huge pedigree and in the New Testament, a familiar route, through the gods, to salvation in the after life because we are all afraid to die and then what?
"Disbelief is more resistant than Faith
because it is sustained by the senses."
“I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being.”
“Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits. It is intellectual bankruptcy.”
― Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist
“You can cite a hundred references to show that the biblical God is a bloodthirsty tyrant, but if they can dig up two or three verses that say 'God is love,' they will claim that you are taking things out of context!”
― Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist
Aw, Hell! Then, I guess we're screwed?
I personally think there's something better waiting for us. Ignorant goat herders just couldn't fathom it all and write beyond the scrutiny of our more educated times.
BB
Perhaps better said that I find no real evidence that a Deity exists. The phenomenon that the God of the Book of Job demanded Job explain if he was so smart etc can all be easily explained today by the average High Schooler. The questions of that day have been nicely answered where as in that time, no one, not Job or anyone could adequately explain the answers to the questions asked in Job 38 to 40. Perhaps they would have to be asked today as questions about
the nature of matter, dark or otherwise. How a Universe or something come from nothing. What is nothing? etc. The fact is that we are learning that what we usually call nothing is filled with particles that pop in and out of existence. Nothing only appears to be nothing to us. No one said the Universe was not a mystery or that we know all about it. We don't of course but our gaps in knowing are not wisely filled with "God did it". We need to explore that for ourselves.
A multiverse? Parallel Universes? Could be. A God somewhere? Could be. Perhaps I simply mean that a cultic mountain/volcano god adopted by the Hebrew people at an obscure time in history, in an obscure place when others gods were just as readily accepted by others seeking the same benefits and explanations of their world is not it.
As someone once noted. The Bible presents "the problem" as this entity that is called "sin". Paul found himself doing what he didn't want to do and not what he should etc. Rather than accept that this is just how humans find real life, he put his personal responsibility to do better onto "sin that is in me", like it was a germ or parasite. The the Bible offers the solution to sin, or else. The comment was that this is no different than someone stabbing you with a knife and then selling you the bandage.
I prefer to defer to Thomas Huxley's observation that it's better to "“Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads or you shall learn nothing.”
...than to just believe what one is expected to believe on faith, which like it or not, is simply going along to get along based on absolutely no evidence that in which faith is put is actually true. Actually true should be important to all of us.
I would have preferred the author of "Without faith it is impossible to please God" had said, "without understanding and critical thinking leading to accurate conclusions, it is impossible to please God." I know, I don't get the luxury to change the Book, but we have come a very long way since it was written and we are far from the world, beliefs and Universe as understood back then. The lack of curiosity in many if not most "I found it!" and "God said, I believe it, That does it for me" types is sad to me. But, each to their own.
The Roman Catholic Church and its Protestant daughter churches teach that this is the only day of salvation, and that those who do not make it now will be lost.
In contrast, the Worldwide Church of God under HWA taught that God is calling only a very few people in this age. The vast majority of people will be called later, after Jesus has returned to earth, and will be given their first real chance for salvation at that time.
Dennis, please don't keep on underestimating the people who were living when Paul wrote his letters. Even 2,000+ years ago, many people heard about the God of Israel, and about Paul's message, and concluded that the "god" being described was an evil being unworthy of worship. Some simply ignored this jealous tribal god of war and weather, while others devised elaborate schemes in the hope of getting past this evil Demiurge and reaching the realm of the True God.
Only a fool would assert that mankind is the highest intelligence in the universe. Something amazing is going on around us, and despite our leaps in understanding we are mostly learning how much more there is that we don't know. There has to be an intelligence at work higher than mankind's, whether that intelligence is inherent in nature or whether it is somehow found in a being separate from and above nature.
What is highly improbable is that there is a supreme personal intelligence that takes offense when you wear a cotton-polyester shirt (YHVH), or that loves cats but hates dogs (Allah), or that despite supreme intelligence can only be petitioned by one particular mantra or another.
I can envision a couple of scenarios, however unlikely, that would be very beneficial for arrogant mankind. Imagine that we discover indisputable evidence of other intelligent life-forms near us in the universe. Islam might survive by identifying those beings with the djinn of the Quran, but Judaism and Christianity would immediately collapse, save for a few Christian fanatics who would either dismiss the aliens as demons or would feel obligated to bring their gospel to the aliens.
Better yet, imagine that intelligent extra-terrestrial life forms come to earth... but ignore humans completely and spend their time conversing with the porpoises and elephants!
Shouldn't good science and good theology both lead us to a place of humility? Sadly, most theologians and far too many scientists become arrogant "defenders of the faith" rather than taking Huxley's position and seeing just how small we are in the presence of superior intelligence, whether you call that intelligence Nature or God.
Couldn't agree more 656.Ever learning and ever closer to the more understanding. The search and journey is the interest for myself. Static never growing church is not.
Dennis, says "Perhaps better said that I find no real evidence that a Deity exists." Instead he believes in fairy tales of Evolution. To deal with his rejection of certain things he knows are true, he keeps posting silly things like this straw man carton.
He knows the Bible doesn't teach most are to burn forever in Hell. And Faith is not blind faith. Romans 1 has to be skipped over because it challenges the reader to check out if the Creator / Designer is revealed in the creation that's all around us .
Today, thanks to real science, the all the cosmological constants required to have any matter in the universe is mathematically impossible to have happened without a all powerful creator. So the "intellectual elites" had to create a new fairy tale of "multi-universes" for which there is no evidence. But no "faith" needed by Dennis for this. He has no choice to ignore the real science. He also has to ignore all the almost infinite extreme design he's sees all around him every day.
He's been blinded by the bad behavior of humans who claimed to represent a Creator.
It's reminds me a little bit of Trump derangement syndrome, where anger and hater cloud the mind.
In "The man who would be king", The heathen leader asks the British soldiers after a rifles hot, "are you gods", then Michael Caine replies, "No, we're British, but that is the best next thing.......... "
After hearing this video I learned that God is an Aussie after all.
Let's hear what the burning bush is telling us.
Nck
Oh man.....I just completely choked myself hearing the part where, "the voice" says. I also invented faith. Actually when you believe something completely ridiculous in faith, Then it is actually quite respectable.....
These guys are terrible......
Nck
Dennis (10:17)
We have been over his turf before. If you want to be an atheist, that's up to you. But your position against Christianity is weakened by the fact that you seem to understand so little about Christianity and its history. You seem to live on a diet of atheist bromides. And your alternative to Christianity is atheistic materialism, one of the least tenable and blatantly inane philosophies in the basket. And I don't know what missionary atheism has to do with Armstrongism.
Nicely spoken 652
I agree with you speculations included. Carl Sagan does a nice piece on "Humility" in science and in life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8GA2w-qrcg&list=PLkg6rgsMo0PdYfFJODjY6GfIoWEtZlbGF
Even as a child I wondered what went wrong with "and it was very good" just a few chapters away when it all had to be rebooted and all but 8 drowned in terror. Fortunately, I have come to see it is a myth and did not actually happen as advertised.
We should know better by now, but our need for security and answers to "what's going to happen to me" are strong. We have no problem not minding the billions of years we were not here. We seem to greatly mind billions of years no longer here. Thus religion.
Even when I was a believer I had trouble understanding why forgiveness of sins required the death of our creator.
I also found it hard to understand how someone could never do anything wrong their entire life from baby to adulthood.
NEO said...
"The distortion is so dramatic that it actually has some entertainment value."
Maybe NEO could spell out for us exactly what falsehoods he feels are present in the video?
Or maybe he just objects to his religion being laid bare to reveal its unflattering underbelly?
Does 8:06 AM believe that the natural world reveals to us a deity who died but didn't really die to atone for the sins of the beings it created? Or would he admit that the natural world may reveal Allah to some, Shiva to others, and YHVH to still others?
No person who is a sincere atheist would have the incentive to write endless articles and comments rejecting belief in God and the bible. Dennis is not what he appears to be. Scratch the surface folks.
No person who is a sincere Christian would have the incentive to write endless articles and comments rejecting disbelief in God and the Bible. HWA was not what he appeared to be. Scratch the surface folks.
Anonymous said...
No person who is a sincere atheist would have the incentive to write endless articles and comments rejecting belief in God and the bible. Dennis is not what he appears to be. Scratch the surface folks.
January 14, 2020 at 10:56 AM
__________________________________________________________
Like hell. It is people like Dennis who lay out truth to those who don't have a confirmation bias.
I comment about the holy days having roots in paganism and no one replies because they don't want to hear it. Their mind is made up and come hell or high water they won't even consider that they are wasting their lives in a fantasy.
Some of us really do give 2 shits about people.
Anonymous 10:47
Does 8:06 AM believe that the natural world reveals to us a deity who died but didn't really die to atone for the sins of the beings it created? Or would he admit that the natural world may reveal Allah to some, Shiva to others, and YHVH to still others?
No I don't claim the design all around you could explain a plan of the Creator willing to sacrifice Himself for His creation. As to the choice between YHVH and Allah, the Koran doesn't compare to the Bible, since the Koran is a bunch of disconnected ramblings which contradict each other. (Muslims say they are to accept the last revealed "truths" to override the previous.
But I will admit that after 50 years, I have more questions then answers, but no question there's a Creator.
I share my change in perspectives from my WCG past through the years of thoughtful change. I also fill in the spaces here on Banned, as long as invited to, between the shenanigans of "Armstrongists" and the newer ones. I do feel, however, it should not be a problem representing the Unspoken Splinter. That being the many who have reclaimed the interests in good science done well and being taught, as I was, what has precious little evidence to back it up.
If most here wish to be free of the challenge and just stick Church of God gossip and drama to entertain ourselves with, take a poll and I'll be happy to abide by it. I mean your brain no harm. :)
As often said in the past, I would encourage those of you who could be so inclined to write your own postings and let's have a look at where you currently are in your views and beliefs after your own WCG experience and lessons learned. Anyone can comment. It takes a little more to put your own beliefs on the line for others to see, not to mention who you really are and where your currently might be in church attendance and beliefs.
Anonymous said...
No person who is a sincere atheist would have the incentive to write endless articles and comments rejecting belief in God and the bible. Dennis is not what he appears to be. Scratch the surface folks.'
Sure they would. Countless agnostic/atheist individuals on endless websites, books, podcasts, seminars and lectures in a myriad of disciplines do it all the time. Hitchens? Humphreys? Tyson? Dillahunty? Freeman? Fry? Maher? Dawkins? Why don't you scratch my surface for us if I am whatever not what you think I appear to be means to you?
Dennis
Since you asked, let me put it this way to your 1.43 PM question. Shortly after I got baptised, my minister on three or four occasions hinted that I did something wrong, then proceeded to verbally bash me. The holy spirit put the words 'fall by the wayside and I'II stop hurting you' into my mind to explain his behavior. I had similar experiences with other church members, and even people outside the church who found out about my beliefs through the grapevine. By their body language, some were in mental pain if not agony when in my presence. So to me, you are like these, but a cultured, intellectualized version.
Bili Cosby's "Noah" bit can't touch this!
Move over Bill Cosby Riiiiiiight
Annoying Australian accents! Aren't they paying enough of a price - drought, fire - for their atheism?
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