tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post175699628857854529..comments2024-03-28T22:34:16.707-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dennis On "Members Who Challenge Ministry-More Rare Than Hen's Teeth"NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-17209115144124152982012-06-10T08:32:40.757-07:002012-06-10T08:32:40.757-07:00I've gone nose to nose and toe to toe with min...I've gone nose to nose and toe to toe with ministers face to face. They would hear none of it. Their arrogance is absolutely disgusting.<br /><br />I've helped people go to court and get a restraining order against a stalker in the church.<br /><br />I started a project which got 70% of the people in an Armstrongist cult away from a cult leader.<br /><br />The ultimate result of all my efforts?<br /><br />As you would expect: Being totally ignored, except for being threatened with a $100,000 law suit (and someone else we know might get hit with it as well). Gratitude is not an option.<br /><br />It's amazing the magnitude of the arrogance of religious sociopaths and psychopaths -- and for the most part they win, even when a very scant few take the risk and make the effort to oppose their efforts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-14504975221263251572012-06-09T14:58:32.260-07:002012-06-09T14:58:32.260-07:00I decided before going to Embarrassing College tha...I decided before going to Embarrassing College that I would never become a minister. I had seen what church authority was like at SEP, and what it did even to the guy who was made an assistant monitor. It seemed to turn people into the stereotypical dumb drill sergeant common to the military!<br /><br />When I expressed my loathing for personal authority or a career in the ministry, upper classmen kept telling me that I was exactly the type of person who ended up as a minister. So, as the Beastie Boys rapped, I had to "fight for my right to parteeeeeee!" The faculty got the message towards the end of my sophomore year, and that particular monkey was removed from my back. However, it is disheartening indeed to learn what some of my classmates allowed themselves to become, and the dastardly deeds they did to those who looked to them as spiritual guides!<br /><br />I realize, of course, that they simply trusted a corrupt and false system, and at least gave the overt appearance of being in harmony with Pasadena. Many of them learned some hard lessons later, but some have seemingly subverted their consciences and personalities for the sake of economic security. Regardless as to what we think of HWA, I believe his net effect on his followers was not so different from that of Charles Manson. Both took well intentioned, sincere people and utilized the power of their own personalities to warp them to produce evil.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-28756351595276148652012-06-08T21:57:43.552-07:002012-06-08T21:57:43.552-07:00"Being a minister is a terrible thing to do t..."Being a minister is a terrible thing to do to a man. It's not real and it certainly doesn't allow for one's true authentic self to flourish."<br /><br />That is so true, Dennis. It made my friend, Richard Pinelli, into the blind buffoon he has become.<br /><br />At one time, I felt like a failure because I never was ordained. Now, I see it as a blessing. I hope, like you, I would have walked away, but who knows. Like the song says, there can be "a load of compromisin'" on the road to one's horizon.<br /><br />It' bedtime. I'm going to sleep well with a clear conscience.Allen C. Dexterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06615706118359802452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-16328492605245397782012-06-08T21:40:27.333-07:002012-06-08T21:40:27.333-07:00"I'm sure it doesn't make a differenc..."I'm sure it doesn't make a difference to them one way or the other, but maybe if enough people start speaking up, they will start waking up."<br /><br />No, they won't. Not most anyway. They dare not admit that they aren't god's chosen messengers and chosen people. <br /><br />Richard Pinelli was one of my closest friends when we were in college together. He was from the streets of Chicago and a little guy. I was from a North Dakots ranch and 6' 6". We looked like Mutt and Jeff.<br /><br />I still have fond memories of him and am so sorry that he got ordained and set on the course that has turned him into what he has become. He didn't start out that way. Really, he was a likeable little Italian American. We were all very sincere and well meaning back then. I'm sure he still thinks he is and certainly wants to be.<br /><br />It's sad. But, there is no end of sadness in this universe -- and the universe doesn't give a damn. That's just how it is.Allen C. Dexterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06615706118359802452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-33935693635113007252012-06-08T20:50:43.425-07:002012-06-08T20:50:43.425-07:00Dennis,
I hate to admit it, but I've had word...Dennis, <br />I hate to admit it, but I've had words with ministers in the past. I told off Pinelli around 1980 when they changed the makeup doctorine. I was 15 years old and sort of a geek. No way was I going to give up makeup! So he saw me with lip gloss on at a basketball game and got in my face. I told him it was people like him that were driving young people out of the church. Then he came to Union the next week and railed against the youth, one in particular. I stayed home that week. My parents weren't even mad, they agreed he was a jerk. <br /><br />Then, years later, I returned to WCG after my hiatus in the catholic church. All the doctorines started to change 1992 thereabouts. I left in early 1994 and wrote Greg Sargent a letter and called him a Nazi for following orders. <br /><br />Then in 2006, I emailed Paul Luecke with my resignation from United. No name calling, just told him the church isn't meeting my spriritual needs. I'm sure he didn't give a sh-t, I wasn't a bid donor. <br /><br />Last October, I wrote a rant email to an LCG minister who was in my area a long time ago. Got the typical response, they represent the Living christ, blah, blah, blah. <br /><br />I'm sure it doesn't make a difference to them one way or the other, but maybe if enough people start speaking up, they will start waking up.Mish-Mashnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-48269353936715992872012-06-08T18:18:30.908-07:002012-06-08T18:18:30.908-07:00PS Was just talking with a friend who has been th...PS Was just talking with a friend who has been through the same kind of bone crusing relationship crash and we agreed there are really two lists in life.<br /><br />A Bucket list <br />and a <br />F___it list. <br /><br />(Sorry can't say the word. My mom would have a fit . In our house, saying "shut up" was akin to damnation:)DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-21521310672972759772012-06-08T18:14:44.402-07:002012-06-08T18:14:44.402-07:00", but instead he chose to integrate his pers...", but instead he chose to integrate his personality rather than shatter it, so he had to leave the ministry. The man doesn't have to be perfect for you to respect him for that."<br /><br />The man is far from perfect. I'm made some big mistakes along the way. I stayed in WCG too long but didn't now what to do. I can't say I walked away but rather was pushed. I can only say that I never in worst moments ever thought to continue with another version of WCG. I never had the thought or desire to start my own thing. I was done. Once was enough for my temperament and by the time I was no longer a minister, I was pretty much a theological skeptic. <br /><br />Transitions are messy. I have hurt some who I had no intention of hurting. I have mishandled stress and the abandonment issues that popped up at times. <br /><br />In hind sight, I didn't fit the ministry. Years ago, Dave Albert, who I counted as a personal friend as we got along for some reason, told me he never thought I fit the ministry. I think now he meant not so much that I didn't love and work well with the people but that my thinking was not typical WCG and wouldn't be contained well or confined to just WCG ways. He was right. <br /><br />It's an odd time in life. Just alone with good old Chewie the Shih Tzu who is hilarious. I've become the silver haired guy that has the really cute dog. I guess they think a guy with a Wookie for a dog can't be all that much of a threat lol. <br /><br />My life frustration and regret at this time is that I could have done better. I should have done better and I don't know how the no retirement , no nuttin thing is going to play out in time. <br /><br />Maybe start a commune! <br /><br />Being a minister is a terrible thing to do to a man. It's not real and it certainly doesn't allow for one's true authentic self to flourish. <br />amenDennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-63923586849088846742012-06-08T17:52:24.799-07:002012-06-08T17:52:24.799-07:00I know another presiding Evangelist type who used ...<i>I know another presiding Evangelist type who used WCG funds and not his own to purchase Gold for himself as an investment, but I spare you. </i><br /><br />The key to understanding that presiding Evangelist is that he is usually guilty of the sins he most loudly accuses others of. He hates liars like Stanley Rader. He hates Sabbath-breakers like the Tkaches. He hates the nepotism that kept Garner Ted in power for so long. I could go on, but you get the idea. I’m sure you would have heard him preaching against stealing while using WCG funds to purchase his own gold. It fits the pattern. The man’s words and deeds are miles apart. Even some of his own family members admit that he is just running “the family business.” Think about it. Actually believing in HWA’s teachings, or even just in the Bible, would make it harder to run a WCG splinter cult. Dennis could have chosen to become alienated from his true feelings and become another HWA-clone, believing one thing and doing another, just as many say this presiding Evangelist has done, but instead he chose to integrate his personality rather than shatter it, so he had to leave the ministry. The man doesn't have to be perfect for you to respect him for that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-10917595013618111482012-06-08T14:11:37.058-07:002012-06-08T14:11:37.058-07:00excellent picture on what Armstrongism has always ...excellent picture on what Armstrongism has always done to those who dare to questionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-30749902039605179112012-06-08T13:48:24.542-07:002012-06-08T13:48:24.542-07:00What I think anonymous meant, is that it has alway...What I think anonymous meant, is that it has always been part of COG culture that anyone who has been "ordained" is to be treated with the utmost respect, whether he is deserving of it or not. Members of the ministry will get incensed real quick if members of the laity fail to do so. Usually ministers will tell others what to do nicely, but not always. Sometimes they will bark orders as though it was the military instead of a church. To reference Brave New World, most of us were always aware that they are Alpha and you are Beta, Gamma, or Delta. Sure, I'll admit that I want status, everyone does. But I still never wanted the job of being a minister. I didn't have the right aptitudes, and besides, I guess I never saw myself as a company man.<br /><br />Most laymembers have no idea of the reality of what goes on behind the Holy Curtain that separates the ministry from the rest of the membership. Most laymembers would be shocked and lose all respect if they knew the gory details of exactly what this minister did to that minister, and how totally unchristian they were to each other. If the membership did know, all those sermons about how we're supposed to be learning to put on the character of Jesus Christ would be objects of scorn and ridicule because of the outright hypocrisy of it all. The political skullduggery, gamesmanship, oneupmanship, disrespect, and outright contempt that went on behind the scenes was a real eyeopener to me when I got close enough to be "in the know" at certain points. And I'm just talking about local congregations, nevermind headquarters!<br /><br />It's interesting and instructive to hear someone strip away the layers of secrecy and deceit and hear someone from the Alpha side call a spade a spade. It is healing to me to hear someone who used to be a minister who had the courage to leave the charade behind and is now able to speak some truth FINALLY! We owe you a debt of gratitude.Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-86426197857790301772012-06-08T11:09:37.333-07:002012-06-08T11:09:37.333-07:00Dennis,
I always enjoy reading your anecdotes and...Dennis,<br /><br />I always enjoy reading your anecdotes and reflections from that time. When I used to attend everything about the ministry seemed cloaked in an impenetrable aura of inscrutability, so your insights are very interesting. Thanks for sharing your perspectives here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com