tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post2491065090573016289..comments2024-03-28T18:01:17.200-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dennis Muses: We're not our story...NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-25431182451271501512013-10-02T08:41:59.126-07:002013-10-02T08:41:59.126-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-81318304049489648802013-09-30T07:22:20.581-07:002013-09-30T07:22:20.581-07:00Douglas, if what you proposed is true, maybe many ...Douglas, if what you proposed is true, maybe many people don't even have to try and get revenge.<br />Heck, a person can just look and notice how the Armstrongist churches are imploding, like wonderful instances such as the huge split from the UCG, and Weinland going to jail.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-31081896081919211842013-09-30T07:11:54.919-07:002013-09-30T07:11:54.919-07:00Yep, It would be good if at ALL churches, there wa...Yep, It would be good if at ALL churches, there was a bucket at the next to the entrance door (with a sign stating, "PLEASE TAKE ONE!") full of little packets of salt.<br />The packets would say, "Please think, and take anything preached here with a few grains of salt."<br /><br />Another point-<br />I don't think the idea that- <i>"Remember: If your head is telling you one thing and your stomach is telling you something else, your stomach is telling you the truth."</i> always applies.<br />After all, at many popular churches, people get worked up into a lather of emotion, and to the preacher's delight fall down and start rolling on the floor flailing their limbs and babbling incoherently (which I think would be considered "listening to their gut").Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-64579731478539614462013-09-29T12:27:28.773-07:002013-09-29T12:27:28.773-07:00Thanks Usher. I understand for sure. I think I t...Thanks Usher. I understand for sure. I think I took most of my peer ministers with a grain of salt when they seemed to get weird or opinionated but it never dawned on me that I could ignore them and their congregations might not have that luxury nor would anyone help them.<br /><br />Not infrequently, I'd get "please help us" calls and visits when bordering the likes of Ron Weinland, Dave Pack and Ron Reedy and others who were quirky but less harmful. I never was actually able to help because "Headquarters" never did much about it or backed those who notices a guy out of bounds.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-37432169590500355712013-09-29T10:21:47.473-07:002013-09-29T10:21:47.473-07:00Dennis-
Thanks for the kudos.
However, I'd l...Dennis-<br /><br />Thanks for the kudos.<br /><br />However, I'd like to make one quick clarification that applies only to your comment above, (not to the Musing Post inspired by my comment).<br /><br />While there is definitely an onslaught of foolishness and personal opinion, when I used the term "onslaught" I am definitely referring to the war that COG ministers wage over the right to violate your boundaries (and if you don't roll over to their unreasonable demands, they'll demonize you). That's the sign to get out that no emotionally healthy person will be able to miss, but no emotionally unhealthy person will be able to see. It took me a long time to recognize that and start retuning myself with that in mind.Head Ushernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-91074576696143228342013-09-29T04:39:32.815-07:002013-09-29T04:39:32.815-07:00Head Usher said,
"They've already been c...Head Usher said,<br /><br />"They've already been conditioned to perceive the unreasonable as reasonable, and to accept the unacceptable. Boundary violations are normal for them. For someone raised in a healthy environment, they will recognize the onslaught as the sign they need to get out."<br /><br />Awesome insight and a quotable quote for sure. This is what I call a bottom line concept. In the COG's it seems this is the core reason people stay with a Pack, Flurry or Weinland. The unreasonable has become habitually reasonable and they cannot recognize the onslaught of foolishness and personal opinion any longer. The man's opinion and "God's truth" get melded into one and the same. I suppose it goes along with the foolish concept of "his servants" who speak for God . <br /><br />Many attracted to the COG's don't seem to have emotional boundries and are must squelch common sense often which again would seem normal. Common sense can be lost under the barrage of "my ways aren't your ways," "the wisdom of man is foolishness with God," and "there is a way that SEEMS RIGHT,...but ends in death." A foolish Shephard can cloud up boundries for members easily. <br /><br />"Boundry violations are normal for them."<br /><br />Excellent insight and comment. A real keeper and I hope the lurkers in the faiths are paying attention.<br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-60840874421035955082013-09-28T21:18:31.035-07:002013-09-28T21:18:31.035-07:00Usher,
It was a very very very rare thing for me ...Usher,<br /><br />It was a very very very rare thing for me to leave any sort of WCG service feeling inspired. Once or twice, at the end of a Last Great Day service (and that was actually a holy day that HWA literally invented!) I might have felt reinvigorated or inspired, but most the time, it was just a continuation of the "waiting to die" exercise which began with my parents redefining my life with 1975 in Prophecy.<br /><br />We had very little control over the things that most people take for granted, unless they had a similar cultic experience, or were some sort of political prisoner in a communist country. That is exactly why motorcycles and the individualistic types of people who once rode them held such an allure.<br /><br />BB<br /><br />Byker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-43342666305205891462013-09-28T18:14:41.279-07:002013-09-28T18:14:41.279-07:00I appreciate this post Dennis. It refocuses me on ...I appreciate this post Dennis. It refocuses me on something I can't ever afford to lose sight of.<br /><br />A healthy identity is actually a boundary issue. Who has the right to define your idenity and tell you who you are? Does god have the right to define you? If you're a xian, it's hard to argue otherwise. Do "god's true representatives on earth" have the right to define you? You can see where this is going – downhill fast. Xianity doesn't have to make unreasonable demands, but it always has the power to make unreasonable demands seem reasonable. Xianity is a dangerous thing in the wrong hands. In the hands of abusive cult leaders like Armstrongism's ministurds, it will make unhealthy demands on everyone. You've got to have a strong sense of yourself to repel the onslaught.<br /><br />People raised in abusive homes don't notice the onslaught. They've already been conditioned to perceive the unreasonable as reasonable, and to accept the unacceptable. Boundary violations are normal for them. For someone raised in a healthy environment, they will recognize the onslaught as the sign they need to get out.<br /><br />It took me a long time to realize that being raised in Armstrongism by parents who were raised in psychologically abusive environments, basically shit all over my identity from the get-go. Armstrongism was, and remains, an environment that militates against healthy boundaries and healthy identities. Church right up until HWA's passing was very much a weekly harangue, letting everyone know what <i>bad people</i> they all were. And that was your identity. Add into that all the wonderful child-rearing techniques foisted from the pulpit and you've got a perfect storm. It took me a long time to realize I needed to reclaim my identity, and stop allowing other people to define me and tell me who I am. But still, it takes time to re-educate yourself, redefine yourself, and work out what a healthy boundary looks like.Head Ushernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-46906576849830028982013-09-28T16:08:54.557-07:002013-09-28T16:08:54.557-07:00Resilient people recognize crap when the see it an...Resilient people recognize crap when the see it and learn to avoid it: It's much easier to recover from something you haven't experienced first hand.<br /><br />But short of that, revenge of various sorts is quite effective in bouncing back, particularly if you can 1) make the adversaries uncomfortable even suffer a bit by exposing them and 2) others learn from your experiences vicariously so they don't have to go through them.<br /><br />Obviously, people like David Pack, Gerald Flurry and Roderick Meredith haven't experienced enough pain yet.<br /><br />Maybe some day they will be like Jesus Christ and learn from what they suffer... from our hands.<br /><br />If not, they can all be tossed into the Lake of Fire and we can all be done with them once and for all and live an eternity in peace.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-20744326159495850732013-09-27T14:19:28.519-07:002013-09-27T14:19:28.519-07:00♪♫ Somewhere between an old memory and me♫.♪♫ Somewhere between an old memory and me♫.Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-46749495926677210362013-09-27T09:13:51.211-07:002013-09-27T09:13:51.211-07:00Thanks for your post. Number 10 jumps out. I was i...Thanks for your post. Number 10 jumps out. I was in my head and I didn't write about my life experiences until I turned 40 and it took me over two years to get the book about my growing up in the WCG and coming out of religion and the closet completed. I knew that even if nobody else read the book, my sons would have it to read one day and that was worth it. It was the hardest thing I've ever done, but certainly the most rewarding -- far better than any therapy. Troy Fitzgeraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11133695514281571519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-86617383288447696142013-09-27T08:55:48.437-07:002013-09-27T08:55:48.437-07:00sometimes "get over it" means "I do...sometimes "get over it" means "I don't want to think about it..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-51309194453142150622013-09-27T07:59:52.179-07:002013-09-27T07:59:52.179-07:00Good points. This is one of many possible constru...Good points. This is one of many possible constructs that could help people do a post mortem of the experience, rehabillitate, and hopefully restore a good life and go on to the next level. Points 7 and 9 have been especially helpful, and we here all regularly practice #10, sometimes to the point where people whom we make uncomfortable because they themselves haven't yet arrived at that stage tell us to "get over it".<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.com