tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post2709722589332315084..comments2024-03-28T14:20:28.838-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dennis Muses on:NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-22048366306209594072014-02-13T18:09:41.665-08:002014-02-13T18:09:41.665-08:00Anonymous said...
Malm says, “generations always r...Anonymous said...<br />Malm says, “generations always refers to the passage of time in which one or more persons live and never refers to race." Therefore, Malm and Diehl must not be too far apart on their biblical understanding.<br /><br />Why don't you ask me about what I believe instead of whatever you are trying to say that I can't figure out? DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-45521885225478392152014-02-13T17:51:27.446-08:002014-02-13T17:51:27.446-08:00Dennis - Armstrongism sees the Kingdom of God only...Dennis - Armstrongism sees the Kingdom of God only as one future event. You bought into that and more.<br /><br />You eventually dropped a lot of that “and more” but, held unto reading Scripture as exclusively describing the coming of Jesus as one future event. You then were drawn to theologians, independent of Armstrongism, who read these Scriptures in much the same way Herbie did.<br /><br />When you hear the drawling Baptists, you focus solely on their account of Jesus coming in a single event. On this blog, I crudely attempt to say Jesus is coming every day, not just in the future, and my point fails.<br /><br />You believe your views are not filtered through Armstrongism but, Armstrongism is where your ideas were hatched, and while you have grown and left Old Herbie’s farm, you remain imprinted with some narrow literalism from your hatchling days.<br /><br />When you write your Christianity is shit shtick, as in pointing out how the Bible is whack because Jesus did not do what you think the Bible said Jesus would do, perhaps you could just acknowledge an awareness of how others see a diverse array of shades away from your literal interpretations. If your points hold any merit, they could only be strengthened by rubbing against outside thoughts.<br /><br />My favorite line from that hedonistically secular “Enjoy Yourself” Lombardo song is: “Enjoy yourself while you’re still in the pink!” Besides the double meaning, I like it because it brings me to my point that regardless of when the important event of Jesus’ “second coming” occurs, in one way, it’s far more important to every generation that Jesus comes every day. So, although time is short, you don’t have to wait for Him.<br /><br />Although it is later than we think, on our own personal clocks, the King and the Kingdom are to be enjoyed today. “Enjoy yourself; enjoy yourself!”<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />UT, The Reigning Being of Being Banned by Banned by HWAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-25495156420161371252014-02-13T08:57:41.114-08:002014-02-13T08:57:41.114-08:00Malm says, “generations always refers to the passa...Malm says, “generations always refers to the passage of time in which one or more persons live and never refers to race." Therefore, Malm and Diehl must not be too far apart on their biblical understanding. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-53842486504137212362014-02-13T03:57:54.411-08:002014-02-13T03:57:54.411-08:00" UT, The Reigning Being of Being Banned by B..." UT, The Reigning Being of Being Banned by Banned by HWA said...<br /><br />"Armstrongism can only ascertain from the Bible that the Kingdom of God is portrayed as a very near, but future event. As do you."<br /><br />We're not all that far apart UT in some of our perspectives or at least hopes. and I have never been locked into the Jesus is coming soon mantra which is why sometimes I marvel at ever getting hooked by WCG. However, as a young man it seemed more correct or at least included far more of the Bible in it's teaching than did the Westminister Confession of Faith. Besides, my Presbyterian Minister and others I have known have all the very same questions based on all the very same observations.<br /><br />The laity can enjoy the Sunday School version. The ministry, unless the kind that spring from the laity, cannot afford such a luxury.<br /><br />Every Baptist church in the south teaches exactly as WCG did on this topic. Jesus is coming soon. It could be before I finish this sermon. Are you ready? Where would you be if you died tonight?<br /><br />Hear it all the time on the radio.<br /><br />The more educated the ministry, the less you hear this great motivator of the people preached and the deeper or at least more practical to today are the teachings and sermons. <br /><br />Those who wrote the Bible, and there are thousands of books that never made the cut, are simply seeking answers to all the same questions every thinking and consciously aware human being has.<br /><br />My observations are not filtered through Armstrong. WCG provided me the environment to keep questioning as I did as a younger man, because of what I saw, such as building a god like quality campus for millions of given monies, while saying Christ will come "soon" , no..very soon and the silly speculations of the Waterhouse types kept the inborn skepticism alive. DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-68820529196748362332014-02-13T03:40:55.999-08:002014-02-13T03:40:55.999-08:00PS We're not descended from stardust. We are...PS We're not descended from stardust. We are made of it and as noted, we exist because some old star had the courtesey to explode and puke it's rich guts into the universe. Every iron atom in our body comes from the core of an exploded star. <br /><br />Mud sculpted into a human by a god is still stardust as is the rib that we "know" all women were created fromDennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-41822465539215063112014-02-13T03:36:12.775-08:002014-02-13T03:36:12.775-08:00" Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, this subjec..." Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, this subject is much deeper than Dennis thinks!"<br /><br />Of course it is. However the NT text also speaks of the missing the point of the "simplicity that is in Christ" WCG and many others hardly make it simple. Simple won't keep anyone in their seats. Simple won't motivate with fear, guilt or shame people to spread the "soon" and "shortly" meme as a present truth. Simple doesn't badger and bully people into sending it in to build yet another copy of a failed approach to "simple." <br /><br />Truth can be both deep and simple. The fact is that those scriptures about the Second Coming were written for their anticipation not ours 2000 years later. <br /><br />When the mother of all churches arose, in order to keep it going, one has to develope an apologetic system to explain the failure but project it ahead. You know..."the prophecy is very much "on", as Dave says, but we were off in the timing." It is what people do when there was value in something said but locked in a then failed setting. <br /><br />Anon says;<br /><br />"It grieves me to see your confusion and "throw the baby out with the Waterhouse bathwater" approach to the Bible and God. "Descended from stardust" and discussions about astrology...please Dennis, you're better than this."<br /><br />Several has said that I write because of my disillusionment or skepticism as presented by WCG etc. This is not so. Many of these observations were part of my Presbyterian experience when young. It's just how I think. I am not skeptical because of an experience with WCG. I am skeptical as are many others because the Book itself has problems which I have studied and wondered about. <br /><br />Good science well explained interests me. Human origins interest me. Cosmology interests me. Palontology interests me. I am a spiritual person but not religious as they say and had I gone to the Methodist Seminary I was also accepted to, I would be where I am still. Maybe just sooner with a good theological education which I did not have.<br /><br />It's astro-theology, not astrology. "As above, so below" It's an old way of telling an even older story.<br /><br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-52973044463355490412014-02-12T22:39:43.063-08:002014-02-12T22:39:43.063-08:00If you question the holohoax or global warming you...If you question the holohoax or global warming you are also called a scoffer or denier. Over 65 academics are in jail in Europe for questioning the holohoax. So much for free speech in the West. The silence of the media is deafening. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-33121614711791560012014-02-12T19:18:10.009-08:002014-02-12T19:18:10.009-08:00For reasons that are hard for me to understand, I ...For reasons that are hard for me to understand, I somehow never noticed until I began to deconvert how it was that every serious xian has lived their entire life in THE gunlap. it's been 2,000 years of nonstop gunlap. For 2,000 years the finish line, like a mirage or the end of the rainbow, has always appeared to be "just up ahead." and yet when everyone in history has ever gotten there, it was never there, it was always still "just up ahead." How is it that the MIRAGE of "Jebus' "sooncoming" return never dawned upon my believing brain as being what it is, a MIRAGE? Why couldn't I see it for what it was? The lord is not slack concerning his promises? Of course not. Slack doesn't even begin to cover it.Head Ushernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-5731635695929669542014-02-12T19:03:25.865-08:002014-02-12T19:03:25.865-08:00Truly Dennis, the time IS short! And, I certainly ...Truly Dennis, the time IS short! And, I certainly don’t mean that in the thieving Armstrongite sense.<br /><br />Herbutt never understood Holy Scripture yet, he still holds you within a wobbly orbit.<br /><br />Armstrongism can only ascertain from the Bible that the Kingdom of God is portrayed as a very near, but future event. As do you.<br /><br />However, Christianity lives the Kingdom of God as a past, present, and future concept. The King has always been, the King has always had a Kingdom, and the King is yet coming fully into His Kingdom.<br /><br />Because Armstrongism is really only about using eternity as a carrot and a stick for their wish to get all of your money in the now, Armstrongites foretell time to be short solely for this generation. In reality, time is short for all of us, in every generation. Some have/had one hundred short years and some may have/had decades less of shortness of breath – while for all, the time of Jesus’ knocking is short, for each as an individual.<br /><br />"Come, Lord Jesus, come" is a mantra for present and future that we longingly see before us for the right now (with no thought of the future) – and – a deepening desire for the future.<br /><br />I typically feel far from Jesus and careless about the future. Yet, there are those epiphany moments, which you may very aptly hold to merely be pithy delusion, in which I only care for Jesus to fill the present, and that is all there is. Then with the next gasp of breath, from the now as the only reality, a desire for Jesus to fulfill the future unexpectedly blossoms.<br /><br />One thing I clearly remember from reluctantly keeping one foot planted within Catholicism while simultaneously being forcibly dragged toward Armstrongism (talk about confusion) is: Christ has come, Christ is come, Christ will come again – aka, Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again. <br /><br />Christians see no contradiction in Jesus’ so-called last words, “It is finished” as the accomplishment of ALL things and still say ’Lord Jesus come” as a desire for something that has not yet been realized.<br /><br />I don’t fault you for your take on all the Scripture you cited – you’re calling it like you see it. While I think you’re seeing it all through Herbie-colored glass, I know we all have our filters.<br /><br />To the immortal words of Guy Lombardo (my great-grandparents generation?), “Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, it’s later than you think”, I’d like to add: Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, this subject is much deeper than Dennis thinks!<br />UT, The Reigning Being of Being Banned by Banned by HWAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-3221290782234484812014-02-12T18:46:46.255-08:002014-02-12T18:46:46.255-08:00The single stickiest wicket in which Armstrongism ...The single stickiest wicket in which Armstrongism always becomes entrapped is prophecy. It would be bad enough to get the events and time line wrong. But, they utilize their error to highly leverage followers' fear factor, behavior, and financial picture.<br /><br />All would be much more favorable had they simply stuck to teaching biblical behavioral standards for families and individuals as do other Christian churches. The leaders may or may not have become rich and noble, but, isn't that the way itmis supposed to be?<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-62855988848007515502014-02-12T18:35:06.915-08:002014-02-12T18:35:06.915-08:00Dennis -
There are serious scholars (who you woul...Dennis -<br /><br />There are serious scholars (who you would even agree are scholars) who would disagree with about every word you just wrote about the Bible with a "which of course it is not" bias.<br /><br />It grieves me to see your confusion and "throw the baby out with the Waterhouse bathwater" approach to the Bible and God. "Descended from stardust" and discussions about astrology...please Dennis, you're better than this. <br /><br />You made more sense a long time ago when you discussed Allan Eckert's books and history.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-14074829765410082392014-02-12T18:07:33.949-08:002014-02-12T18:07:33.949-08:00I don't know if that 3rd person style was inte...I don't know if that 3rd person style was intentional in the gospels because the writers were not eyewitnesses or even claimed to be. So, the writers wouldn't have had any choice but to write them in third person.<br /><br />The epistles are the clinchers, they are written in first person so, when they say "a short time" it has to mean for the persons then present.Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-74900069956424498072014-02-12T16:53:02.632-08:002014-02-12T16:53:02.632-08:00Well, it would be nice if folk could see the Bible...Well, it would be nice if folk could see the Bible as a document of its times instead of deeply prophetic for just us today which of course it is not. This is why the Gospels are written in the third person. That gives them a bit of immortality and use as needed whenever needed.<br /><br />If it said, "Then Jesus said to me, time is short..." etc, that would be obiously not about us. <br /><br />The chronological disorder of the NT also gives an impression of time and such that is not real either not to mention Paul's ideas preceeding the Gospels by along shot. <br /><br />At any rate, everyone needs the book to be talking about time for them NOW not then. While that is not true, it can be divined out of the book in such a way as to give that impression when needed.<br /><br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-23380252307785578362014-02-12T14:17:52.044-08:002014-02-12T14:17:52.044-08:00Yeah, but you see, Dennis...people don't want ...Yeah, but you see, Dennis...people don't want to believe what Jesus and the apostles said about the end of the age and judgment day being shortly and in their generation, 2,000 years ago. Oh no, because that would mean that Jesus and the apostles were WRONG! Can't have that 'cause, then what? Quit believing in the TRUTH of the Bible? Quit believing that those men were writing under the influence of the holy spirit and may have been wrong about everything? Ewwwww, might as well be atheist.Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-61161009682514527562014-02-12T12:04:11.560-08:002014-02-12T12:04:11.560-08:00Thanks for the nod to Dr. Who.Thanks for the nod to Dr. Who.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com