tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post2917706846587829348..comments2024-03-28T14:49:35.135-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Self Care and Forgiveness NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger129125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-34510855423539053642016-10-29T21:19:13.191-07:002016-10-29T21:19:13.191-07:00You have misunderstood what I had wrote.You have misunderstood what I had wrote.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-42351226351280484882016-10-29T11:31:12.680-07:002016-10-29T11:31:12.680-07:00DBP there are thousands of web sites dedicated to ...DBP there are thousands of web sites dedicated to abusive relationships. And many books on this topic. To call what these victims experience 'only subjective' is rubbing salt into their wounds. All verbal abuse weakens it victims, who often complain of feeling mentally sick. The experience is universal and hence objective. Many divorce settlement payouts reflect this. <br />Intellectualising away destructive behaviour is not a admirable trait. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-31360754338393236092016-10-28T22:31:40.286-07:002016-10-28T22:31:40.286-07:00Anonymous said..."Verbal violence is murder, ...Anonymous said..."Verbal violence is murder, just as much as physical violence is murder. God does not allow murders into his kingdom." October 27, 2016 at 9:43 AM<br /><br />If you want your gestalt of it, then you would be correct.<br /><br />"When a man lies he murders some part of the world<br />These are the pale deaths which men miscall their lives<br />All this I cannot bear to witness any longer<br />Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home"<br /> by <a href="https://www.youtube.com/embed/elAAiDD-sdM" rel="nofollow">Cliff Burton "To Live Is To Die"</a><br /><br />The problems will arise when we try to be objective about that which is only subjective. Keep that in mind. Nobody can be wrong about their own experiences, including the assumptions that we draw from those experiences. But of course, NOT UNTIL we decide to 'listen' to another point of view. <br /><br />DBPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-1741150351176256832016-10-28T06:06:37.678-07:002016-10-28T06:06:37.678-07:00Another consideration is that 'Satan was a mur...Another consideration is that 'Satan was a murderer from the beginning.' Unless angels can be injured or even destroyed, the murder must be verbal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-84883007249968324762016-10-28T00:04:36.634-07:002016-10-28T00:04:36.634-07:008:01, what I am saying is that probably everyone w...8:01, what I am saying is that probably everyone who posts here has their own personal understanding, leading to the code by which they live and behave. It would be extremely arrogant for any of us as individuals to attempt to impose our particular code on everyone else. Morality has always been subject to interpretation, punishment and or mercy. That's why there are judges. <br /><br />To wit: The Pharisees bringing a lady literally dripping spunk to Jesus for Him to condemn according to OT law. Jesus, extending forgiveness and mercy to the woman, counseling her to sin no more, and then turning it all back on the Pharisees who were hypocritical sinners themselves. In the OT, the hypocrite lynch mobs would have gleefully joined in a stoning party. And, that's the only example that the Pharisees had had as a pattern for their own lives.<br /><br />So far, nobody's told anybody they hope Satan gets them or that they burn up in the Lake of Fire. Now that would really be verbal violence!<br /><br /><br /><br />Miguel de la Rodentehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01316579412398751358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-27197117630906498952016-10-27T20:27:34.689-07:002016-10-27T20:27:34.689-07:00Nick, vérbal violence mentality tears people down....Nick, vérbal violence mentality tears people down. It weakens people. It's the opposite of Joshua being told to 'be strong, brave, and courageous.' It weakens peoples self image, self respect, self esteem and self confidence. Physically or mentally crippling others is murder. It doesn't have to be exclusively killing people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-38813098295143282072016-10-27T20:01:49.319-07:002016-10-27T20:01:49.319-07:00Miguel, I'm not sure what you're saying. W...Miguel, I'm not sure what you're saying. We all know that this world has all manner of beliefs, including this blog. Are you saying that morality is subjective and that there are no moral laws? <br />Why do you think that I believe this is the kingdom? Where did I say or imply that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-31728170695792055042016-10-27T14:15:27.112-07:002016-10-27T14:15:27.112-07:00nck says 'It is quite obvious that you are b...nck says 'It is quite obvious that you are being contrair in posting nonsense that nobody believes in in order for us to point out the obvious fallacies.'<br /><br />nck then proceeds to do just that himself. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-33792281794308497102016-10-27T13:23:42.846-07:002016-10-27T13:23:42.846-07:00How do you define "verbal violence"? ...How do you define "verbal violence"? Would that be threatening to put the hurt on someone?<br /><br />So far as false accusations go, unless someone has an identifier (name, screen name) how can you have any degree of accountability when you can't tell who is posting what? Most of us don't have software which could identify others based on literary style, or IP address.<br /><br />Was it fuxating that Armstrongite ministers mastered verbal violence? Absolutely! Was it part of the corporate culture that most members also learned and practiced themselves? No doubt. While some Christians may be trying to root it out as sin, this blog has all manner of people with a wide variety of personal codes, some who think it's ridiculous to equate verbal violence with murder, so you may as well get used to the way things are if you like to post. If you thought this was the Kingdom, you may want to allow your parachute to open!Miguel de la Rodentehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01316579412398751358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-21648785545068060192016-10-27T12:25:03.930-07:002016-10-27T12:25:03.930-07:00BB,
Yes that is interesting.
I must stay on topi...BB,<br /><br />Yes that is interesting. <br />I must stay on topic as much as possible which is forgiving.<br />One person states that forgiving can only take place after revenge and punishment.<br />I agreed that revenge is an integral part of punishment also in the secular world.<br />I said however that I see no connection between the taking of the life of an innocent child and the promiscuous parents. That seems unjustifiable. It is not even a sacrifice it is presented as punishment.<br />Therefore I stated that there must be another explanation for the narrative. Otherwise I cannot reconcile it as just and fair.<br /><br />9:43<br />I thought you were delibarately contrair and obnoxious. But you seem to really believe the "punishment" narrative. If a child suffers from inhereted disease because of family alcoholism, I would accept that the child suffers because of the parents sins.<br />But to kill the child, because the parents conceived it in promiscuity is a terrible thing.<br />I expressly did not say that God does not exist. I offered that there might be another interpretation to the story besides one of harsh punishment. But maybe not. Then at least I have publicly stated my dismay about that type of justice.<br /><br />You are right. I verbally abused you because of my temper. That was not ok.<br />But to state that verbal violence IS murder, well that just ain't so.<br />Perhaps you will forgive me, or maybe not. Then cosmic retribution will need to restore the natural order and balance. But I hope not.<br /><br />nck<br /><br /><br /><br />nckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-82946955822780167232016-10-27T09:43:31.807-07:002016-10-27T09:43:31.807-07:00Nck, parents are either a blessing or a curse on t...Nck, parents are either a blessing or a curse on their children. Where is your 'justice' of children born into a good, wealthy family. They don't 'deserve' that either. When children suffer for their parents sins, I blame the parents rather than God.<br />If you recall, the Egyptians were trying to kill all the newborn males of Israel, so they can hardly complain of injustice by the death of their own firstborn.<br />God said that everything He made is 'good,' which includes the good, bad parents thingy. I'II stick with believing God, rather than agreeing with Nck that God messed up.<br /><br />Regarding your me 'posting nonsense' comment, wrong accusations are verbal attacks. This permeates this blog, as it super permeates all the COG slivers. The ministers have doctorates in verbally attacking members via false accusations. Most everyone plays the game of pretending that it's not verbal violence, but just constructive feedback.<br />This is a sin that just about everyone loves, and refuses to renounce. And they daydream that it is not condemned in the bible. Well it is. 'God abhors violence.'<br />Verbal violence is murder, just as much as physical violence is murder. God does not allow murders into his kingdom.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-32713216504715716292016-10-27T09:31:57.543-07:002016-10-27T09:31:57.543-07:00What I find to be curious, nck, is that a couple o...What I find to be curious, nck, is that a couple of the anti-theists will state that Mary was either promiscuous or raped by a Roman soldier (elliminating the miraculous), but rather than stating that maybe David and Bathsheba's child actually died of SIDS, they hold God and the miraculous totally accountable. Logical inconsistencies or fallacies often expose a "win at any cost" agenda.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-115829120359357012016-10-27T08:40:35.344-07:002016-10-27T08:40:35.344-07:00It is quite obvious that you are being contrair in...It is quite obvious that you are being contrair in posting nonsense that nobody believes in in order for us to point out the obvious fallacies.<br /><br />-There is no justice in a God killing a child because of adulterous parents<br />-There is no justice in a God killing all first borns because of the sins of their fathers that have nothing to do with the reason of their deaths<br />-There is no justice whatsoever in the God you espouse but cannot possibly believe in.<br /><br />What would you say if we were to kill your child because of you posting rubbish.<br />You would probably find it unjustifiable, disproportionate inhumane, disconnected from the original crime and therefore serving no purpose.<br /><br />There must be another interpretation to the God you present or may have read about through your particular lense.<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-54419151568317656972016-10-27T03:32:56.059-07:002016-10-27T03:32:56.059-07:004.24 PM Ninevehs repentance is rare. Typically, na...4.24 PM Ninevehs repentance is rare. Typically, nations don't repent, are demolished by God, then the remnant perhaps repents. In the case of David and Bathsheba, David's child died, even after David repented. God refused to forgive Israel even after king Manasseh repented, due to excessive bloodshed.<br />Forgiveness is not some magic wand that wipes away reality as suggested by Dennis. <br />This war on reality (with (neo) religious window dressing) is typical of people who reject God and the bible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-80071603789422253372016-10-26T23:16:51.630-07:002016-10-26T23:16:51.630-07:001:52
From a legal perspective.
Civil law (He ate m...1:52<br />From a legal perspective.<br />Civil law (He ate my apple, but I want it back): involves the principle of "just compensation" since the apple is gone.<br />Criminal law: I do admit that besides "just compensation" etc it also involves the principle of "revenge" and "proportionality" in the administration of that revenge.<br /><br />This stems from the philosophy that in criminal cases not only the "individual victim" was infringed upon but. by the crime the "peace" has been disturbed in society as a whole also.<br /><br />So that's the philosophical basis for "societies administration" to administer a punishment that involves proportional revenge also. <br /><br />"In the bible it also says "an eye for an eye". This implies proportionality and just compensation. Not "2 hands for a stolen apple" or "the death penalty for a stolen apple".<br /><br />I will also grant you that "Gods hand" might be the driver behind world history. But I have serious doubts that he had anything to do with the rape of millions of German women in the final phase of the war.<br /><br />My point is. The rape and the bombing were not THE punishment. To follow that rational would have wiped out the entire german (in this case) population. The bombing might have been part of the revenge part, which is also an element of punishment, but they did not constitute the punishment in itself.<br /><br />As a matter of fact. An entire army might just decide. No! Enough is enough.<br />And I must reflect on the Jonah story where Jonah decided to not deliver a message that could prompt an entire army to do just that and reflect on themselves.<br /><br />So yes a parking ticket is an infringement on society because taxes have not been paid. And society retaliates with more than just compensation.<br /><br />There is no indication that the American prison works as it is today. Prisoners in general do to often not get released reformed or as a better person. More repeat offenders than german population in wwII.<br />The reason for that is that the American prison is mostly structured as a tool for punishment and revenge. That is and should be a part of the system but there should be more space for a perpetrator to redeem oneself by providing just compensation to the individual and not only pay societies dues.<br /><br />An element of "forgiving" could be part of which constitutes more than just indifference.<br />Which means constitutionalized learning and humane living conditions in order to prevent repeat offense. Not to solely punish which leads to destruction only.<br /><br /><br />This is al legal talk and in 2000 years of modern legal history entire libraries have been written to explain the point more eloquently.<br /><br />Forgiveness constitutes far more than legal talk about "offence, punishment, forgive". At some point it works for individuals and societies on a transformational deeper psychological level to move on and transform as a better unit.<br /><br />I am not to decide that for another person on an individual level. <br />I have never been gravely injured in a death camp or suffered kidnap as many others have.<br /><br />I am to explore how some managed to live on after having been on the receiving end of such ordeal and in the mean time "keep the peace" for society as a whole. But even in abiding by that what is set by the 50 percent and one, we should always look for improvement, albeit for experiences with prison systems beyond our borders, the care for victims, what is just compensation and to look for those that have been wronged maliciously and coping mechanisms of such persons that serve society as a whole best and not the individual only.<br /><br />nck<br /> <br /><br /><br />nckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-10875205905656739472016-10-26T20:51:54.467-07:002016-10-26T20:51:54.467-07:00I like that old classic from days past here amongs...I like that old classic from days past here amongst the friends of dissidence. Someone once opined that there is no such thing as an ad hominem attack on an anonymous poster. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-85782682561286528322016-10-26T16:24:23.655-07:002016-10-26T16:24:23.655-07:001:52, Forgive after punishment? Cool, Bubba. Wha...1:52, Forgive after punishment? Cool, Bubba. What about Nineveh?Miguel de la Rodentehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01316579412398751358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-24417503590748647832016-10-26T13:52:33.722-07:002016-10-26T13:52:33.722-07:00RSK I was referring to Gerald very negative attitu...RSK I was referring to Gerald very negative attitude toward me. Why do you think he is trying to prised my name on this blog?<br /><br />Nck, the carpet bombing demotivated the German people to support the war, Nazism, Hitler and German aggression. It worked since Germany has been quiet since the war.<br />God is in the drivers seat of world history rather than Bomber Harry or Bomber Command. The carpet bombing of Germany parallels Gods punishment of many nations in the old testament, meaning God might have intervened to make this happen.<br />The 'unforgiving' terms of Versailles were fulfilled by Germany borrowing the money, then defaulting on the loans. The left other nations to pay for Germanys war carnage. You are confusing victim and villain.<br />God does forgive individuals and nations, AFTER they have been punished for their crimes. Sort of like speeding and parking fines. Which is different from the 'forgiveness' being advocated by Dennis on this post.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-40958539267980520532016-10-26T13:03:37.937-07:002016-10-26T13:03:37.937-07:0010:14, Because of the "anonymous" monike...10:14, Because of the "anonymous" moniker, I has no idea that Gerald and I were even blogging with the same individual until you just rested your case.<br /><br />Seriously though, I'm reminded of several other shared experiences. A lesbian I once knew complained that the police pulled her over for running a red light because she was gay. In fact, she invoked her sexual orientation any time something didn't go her way. How would they have even known???<br /><br />A Mexican American biker who was covered head to foot with riding apparel so that you couldn't see so much as 1/8" of skin complained that the police officer who pulled him over for doing 95 mph in the HOV lane while drunk was prejudiced against Mexicans.<br /><br />Because of being raised in WCG, I had to work hard in overcoming the paranoia that seems to be one of its more enduring bad fruits. That is most certainly a factor we all need to be aware of as a possibility. I think we just made some progress there!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-28514617938659143052016-10-26T11:56:51.219-07:002016-10-26T11:56:51.219-07:00Gerald's comment is persecution? Come on, I se...Gerald's comment is persecution? Come on, I see worse than that said to people on a daily basis. Go find your safe space and put some lotion on your thin skin.RSKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-22964993255632261512016-10-26T11:24:07.191-07:002016-10-26T11:24:07.191-07:00Anon 10:14, how can I have a reaction to you? I d...Anon 10:14, how can I have a reaction to you? I don't even know if you exist. My reaction to people like you is that you will not own your nasty accusations. When you try to slap me down, you know I am a real person. I'm not sure you even acknowledge your own existence.<br /><br />I find it hilarious that you would use the word "crackpot" to define someone other than yourself.<br />Is that Jeremiah calling out to you again?? Is it time to carpet bomb Hamburg again? Reading bible prophecy is not serving you well.<br /><br />I am happy you are resting your case. It is worn out.Gerald Bronkarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01351342089409543119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-62980918717855326102016-10-26T11:08:48.164-07:002016-10-26T11:08:48.164-07:00Military destruction is all that works with crazie...Military destruction is all that works with crazies. Which is why Nazi Germany was carpet bombed near the end of the war. Probably a command from God.<br />Or do you think yourself wiser than God?<br /><br />This is wholly incorrect.<br /><br />The carpet bombing served to demotivate the German people to support the war effort.<br />It was a command by Bomber Harry and Bomber Command.<br />Original Armstrongism had the Germans as "the rod of mine anger". It would be unfair of God to unleash hell on those he had used if you are reasoning from an Armstrongite perspective.<br /><br />But to remain on subject.<br />You focus on how to deal with crazies. But the subject is that this people you speak off has for large part been forgiven, after doing the right thing for 50 years, and continued to be productive members of mankind.<br /><br />This would not have been possible under the "unforgiving" burden of terms of Versailles or if the entire people had been carpet bombed to oblivion.<br /><br />As a matter of fact I believe the American are quite welcome in Vietnam aswell nowadays.<br />So you might ponder forgiveness once again as I pride myself in having stayed on topic quite succesful if I may say so.<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-32250514314379127412016-10-26T10:14:17.750-07:002016-10-26T10:14:17.750-07:00BB, consider Geralds reaction to me. I rest my cas...BB, consider Geralds reaction to me. I rest my case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-18687708113689207672016-10-25T23:56:55.146-07:002016-10-25T23:56:55.146-07:00Gerald, you look out for number one by with holdin...Gerald, you look out for number one by with holding information on occasion. I assume you don't answer peoples enquiries about your finances or sex life. So why cannot you respect other peoples right to likewise say no. <br />Look at all your crackpot accusations. No wonder people have to hide their true identity from you. Hmm, and the topic was forgiveness. Consider how nasty and unforgiving you have become. Naughty boy Gerald, naughty, naughty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-57943374072611633252016-10-25T23:05:17.810-07:002016-10-25T23:05:17.810-07:0011:24, I see by the British spellings and grammar ...11:24, I see by the British spellings and grammar that you probably live in one of the crown countries or former colonies. So I can see where conditions for Christians in your area of the world may be quite different from ours here in the USA. <br /><br />As far as traffic laws are concerned, in my state, if you don't synchronize your speed with prevailing traffic (generally about 80 mph on the freeway), then you become a hazard to other drivers and are likely to become involved in an accident. Besides, everyone's driving around with their guns in their cars, and if you are holding up traffic, insisting on going 65 in the fast lane because that's the speed limit, you could get shot. Law enforcement is mostly grace-based up to about 10 mph above the speed limit. If they nick you for speeding, there is further grace in that you can go to traffic school and get your ticket expunged. The only area where there is zero tolerance is for drinking and driving, which is something I will not do.<br /><br />Was just concerned and didn't want you to see yourself as being under some sort of curse simply because of being a Christian. There are positives that more than compensate. I also know that there are parts of the world in which Christians are constantly persecuted and sometimes killed. If that is your case, then those of us who are believers should be remembering you in our prayers!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.com