tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post2968714577631716762..comments2024-03-29T05:22:27.348-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dennis Muses: "Otherness and Chosen are Illusions"NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-67454465591910054322014-02-02T16:16:43.103-08:002014-02-02T16:16:43.103-08:00, I've often wondered if some Israelites didn&..., I've often wondered if some Israelites didn't attempt to disguise their ethnic origins and secretly remain behind there in Egypt. <br /><br />Aside from the improbability of the story of the Exodus , I can imagine many not getting on board in such a circumstance. The OT stories are all very idealistic and improbable in reality as presented. <br /><br />I for one had no intention of going anywhere or telling anyone to do anything should , as Gerald Waterhouse always said, "Mr. Urmstrong said it was time to flee."<br /><br />Not in my world ever<br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-86404787401052521702014-02-02T10:13:23.102-08:002014-02-02T10:13:23.102-08:00The problem is often one of focus. True spiritual...The problem is often one of focus. True spirituality is seeking a oneness with God. "Religion" is man adapting a set of taught precepts espoused by a particular group, and then seeking a oneness with that, and by implication, with one another. One is a direct connection, the other is filtered through anthropomorphism.<br /><br />Many of the "special" groups throughout history didn't get to make a personal choice. By birth or geography, they ended up being surrounded by and caught up in the prevailing circumstances. We in the USA have a great deal of personal choice. At the birth of Islam, Mohammed began as a salesman, and then turned to conquest by violence, because he realized he could bring many more into the fold by force rather than by using reasoning and persuasion. Communism was ushered in by force by the followers of Karl Marx. Those who resisted were "purged".<br /><br />The Bible is often sparse in verbiage, but seems to imply that 100% of the Israelites participated in the Exodus. Knowing people, and human nature, I've often wondered if some Israelites didn't attempt to disguise their ethnic origins and secretly remain behind there in Egypt. I also wonder whether some few openly rebelled, saying (in Egyptian), "Why that's just bullshit, Moses!" Such examples would be typical, not at all unusual.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-26062480403358265812014-02-02T09:41:15.911-08:002014-02-02T09:41:15.911-08:00" And if you haven't already discovered N..." And if you haven't already discovered Nassim Haramein,...<br /><br /><br />I have! Interesting for sure and his accent makes it more so. He has much to offer and is brilliant in presentation.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-55979944678542514762014-02-02T08:30:04.822-08:002014-02-02T08:30:04.822-08:00Dennis, you are absolutely correct about this onen...Dennis, you are absolutely correct about this oneness. Religious "specialness" is a metaphorical autoimmune disease to the humanity body.<br /><br />Thanks for the reminder on Feynman. And if you haven't already discovered Nassim Haramein, you should check him out. He's one of the current "genius" minds out there now proving that "oneness" is not a new age mumbo jumbo. It is scientifically demonstrable. His gig now is The Resonance Project (www.resonance.is) and will be putting out a doc. soon called The Connected Universe.<br /><br />This is the sort of inquiry where unity and peace can begin to be woven.<br /><br />Keep up the good work. Lotsa folks here are just going to need more time to grasp the truth of what you've shared here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-48527340976710413562014-02-02T07:53:19.444-08:002014-02-02T07:53:19.444-08:00"Did Ramona really wear red lipstick and stea..."Did Ramona really wear red lipstick and steal his silver, and this was the reason HWA divorced her?"...just wondering LOLLLAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814413634365385083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-6605964353446241912014-02-01T21:52:43.543-08:002014-02-01T21:52:43.543-08:00BB made a good point in the previous post about Ar...BB made a good point in the previous post about Armstrongism being essentially gnostic. It applies equally here on this thread as well, since "otherness" and "chosen" are just different words for esotericism (gnosticsism). It's our possession of "hidden knowledge" that makes us "chosen" and your lack of it that makes you "other." Of course, there's no evidence that any deity has done any choosing. In reality, we've done all the choosing ourselves in our own fertile (not to mention biased) imagination.Head Ushernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-17454936894261714822014-02-01T18:55:08.482-08:002014-02-01T18:55:08.482-08:00I remember the booklet,"A World Held Captive&...I remember the booklet,"A World Held Captive" we where the ones held captive by Armstrongism. Armstrongism is a neatly packaged box containing all the answers. This attracted a lot of people looking for answers to life's biggest questions. What we didn't realize was this neatly packaged box was actually used to imprison our minds and keeping us from growing as human beings as is essential to our happiness and stability. In a nut shell this neatly packaged box was just a tool of mind control.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-44679509007686242792014-02-01T10:43:18.787-08:002014-02-01T10:43:18.787-08:00I fully understood your premises, Dennis, but I do...I fully understood your premises, Dennis, but I don't believe you can artificially separate all of the influences out, be they religious influences, genetic, or cultural. They are all part and parcel of the gumbo, of who we are, and what we are. And, actually, I have a history of rebelling against the alleged "specialness" inherent in Armstrongism. I remember as a young WCG boy being told how privileged I was to be one of the very few chosen to have the special knowledge that "Mr." Armstrong imparted to us, and thinking, I don't want to be special, I just want to be a regular guy, a productive member of society, not a ruler, and certainly not one who ruins other people's lives by spreading this particular type of specialness. <br /><br />Had the second resurrection been what they preached it as being, it would have been preferable for everyone to come up in that rather than taking the path through a lifetime experiencing the horrors and oppression of Armstrongism "qualifying" one to come up in the first. When I was an atheist, it really only changed worst case scenario by removing perhaps a few moments of fiery pain, and then, the same blissful state of nothingness. I called it opting out. Freedom from Armstrongism. Fortunately, it is not as we were taught.<br /><br />Many Christians today feel special, but it isn't the type of specialness that puffs one up; it is based on gratitude for being saved, and much of that is pretty humbling rather than an arrogance-producing or chauvinistic frame of mind. Elitism should have been a huge red flag for all of us right from the get-go, but for some it ended up being a "benefit" or selling point. Our entire church culture in WCG was patterned after the Bronze Age covenant, a closed, and very controlled society driven by "special" gnosticism, and enforced by the so-called leaders of the specialness. A "pulling back" if you will, much as many Arabs try to pull their people back to the time of their 11th century prominence. To do this in either case, one must forget Einstein, forget the Renaissance, forget or misinterpret Jesus, and most certainly forget the philosophers. The stuff some people try to replicate is time-sensitive, and only appropriate to the conditions of the time. That's why more educated theologians speak of dispensations. <br /><br />How could anyone respect a God who was limited to being capable of only interacting with His children if they replicated the conditions and experiences specific to a certain era?<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-15089161265459981562014-02-01T08:24:10.578-08:002014-02-01T08:24:10.578-08:00It may be helpful to some for this subject to exam...It may be helpful to some for this subject to examine the book, "Your Natural Gifts" by Margaret Broadly to understand the 19 inherited aptitudes. <br /><br />It is fairly obvious that Byker Bob inherited high Structural Visualization from his mother and is thus predisposed to be an excellent advanced technologist.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the CoHAM in power seem to have inherited nothing more than high ideaphoria so that they can just "make things up" on the fly for nonsensical explanations for phenomenon they cannot explain -- and using British Israelism to do it. Anyone who has heard a 5 hour sermon by Gerald Waterhouse understands what I mean.<br /><br />My assessment of how special a person may be is centered on the core of what they can do that is useful. Giving distorted perceptions of rubbish and attempting to enforce them by perceived authority lacking any force of concrete reality does not qualify.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-15984335804459288102014-02-01T07:15:37.704-08:002014-02-01T07:15:37.704-08:00BB, the muslims basically did nothing. They inher...BB, the muslims basically did nothing. They inherited the Greek and Roman knowledge the Bzantines had preserved while the barbarians who conquered Rome just destroyed it. Then, the barbarity of Catholicism kept the western world in darkness for centuries. Secularism slowly cast that off, but nothing comparable happened in the muslim world. They're as regimented and ignorant as they ever were. Religion stultifies and retards all progress. Allen C. Dexterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06615706118359802452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-15150008496625405592014-02-01T06:17:21.342-08:002014-02-01T06:17:21.342-08:00Sorry folks, I failed to mention the title of the ...Sorry folks, I failed to mention the title of the video previously mentioned. It is "We Are All Connected." I may be wrong, but maybe "otherness" or "religion" divides us as a people rather than allowing us to recognize we are all connected in many ways. How many times have we heard, 'Religion is the cause of more wars and death then anything else throughout human history.' I mentioned in a COG group discussion a few years back, "All religion is manmade." Without hesitation one person said, "Except ours." In my opinion, for what it is worth, that is the "otherness" Dennis is writing about. The video is listed below.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk<br />Homernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-91299229818918320472014-02-01T05:49:41.482-08:002014-02-01T05:49:41.482-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-71424245203697341312014-02-01T03:58:18.228-08:002014-02-01T03:58:18.228-08:00I am not speaking of "specialness" in re...I am not speaking of "specialness" in regards to specialities such as skills or superior information that one group has over another. <br /><br />I am speaking of the fact that when you strip all that away , take away luck of birth or location, circumstances and religious or political beliefs which are the clothes and masks we all wear, we are all the same.<br /><br />I was speaking specifically to the fact that , in my view and experience, it is more harmful than helpful for one group of folk to think the Deity has chosen them as special in his/her sight and thus can torment and commit genocide on others in the name of their "truth" All die. I have buried any number of inexpendible people who just had to be to work on Monday. <br /><br />In particular I am referencing the idea that each of the splinters views themselves as the one true church and too many ministers as God's only who know how it all is when they do not. They cut off knowledge for the members and opt for generalities based on mythologies rather than how the world really works and the processes that drive it .<br /><br />The Old Testament is a testament of chosen and special people who believe the deity likes them best. As a result, 1,600,000 others as documented in the texts get slaughtered not to mention the flood story where everyone gets it after being pronounced "very good" a few chapters earlier. The Satan in the same text kills 10 in Job . :) This is where special and chosen goes awryDennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-3165061989520432792014-01-31T22:00:39.930-08:002014-01-31T22:00:39.930-08:00If we were discussing animals, we would be forced ...If we were discussing animals, we would be forced to acknowledge that breeding techniques often produce superior purpose-related specimens. I believe this is also true of humans in significant areas. MENSA members are pretty special. So are professional athletes, acclaimed musicians, highly successful business persons, professionals such as doctors and lawyers, talented writers and artists, renowned scientists, and many more groups we could probably easily think of. And, I do not believe it is racist in any way to note that certain identifiable talents often appear to be all but native and natural to specific ethnic groups. <br /><br />Methodology which promotes success can also elevate one to levels considered to be special, as can select and unique opportunities. Living in a geographic area somewhat restricted to successful individuals can produce a privileged or protected existence or life style, meaning greater safety, and longer life expectancy. These are additional types of specialness.<br /><br />Can religion cause specialness? I believe that that can indeed be the case. As an example, in the 11th century C.E., followers of Mohammed were considered more advanced than those who lived in areas affected by the Dark Ages. Josephus extolled the virtues of Jewish law, logic, and culture, and the effects these things had on the quality of life of his contemporary citizens. There was also the celebrated Pax Romana.<br /><br />Having noted all of that, I believe that creating an illusion of specialness, using Armstrongism as the cause and specialness as an effect, was little more than a manipulative and controlling tool. It was also sleight of hand to deflect our attentions from the fact that the precepts of Armstrongism actually worsened or diminished the plights and expectations of most of us. (there were rare exceptions). "They" even dangled carrots which were totally undesirable to some of us like being part of an elite group in our current physical lives, and rulers and priests and kings in the future one. As a personal example, I, a technical person, enjoy solving problems and making repairs for people more than actually socializing with them or becoming close to them. And, it would never even occur to me to want to rule over them. I get off on doing specialized "stuff" for them that they could most likely never do for themselves, which would probably be a great way of quantifying my own target area for specialness. It's also something which I got from my father, and which I share with my son.<br /><br />Like anything else, specialness can be used in either positive fashion, or detrimental fashion. But, it does most certainly exist.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-34314535804921455862014-01-31T18:12:15.496-08:002014-01-31T18:12:15.496-08:00Dennis, thanks for posting these “Symphony of Scie...Dennis, thanks for posting these “Symphony of Science” videos. Another is listed below. It became a part of my additional understanding about 4-5 years ago after searching for answers other than the ones “religion” has to offer. It includes comments from Feynman, Tyson, Sagan and Nye. This four minute video has given me additional insight concerning the relationship between us as a people and the universe. <br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk<br /><br />Homernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-72263088816749195622014-01-31T17:57:36.721-08:002014-01-31T17:57:36.721-08:00Anonymous said...
Sorry but we are not all one. Yo... Anonymous said...<br />Sorry but we are not all one. You might as well say we're all rich, poor, monkys, zebras, negros, women, psychokillers, or david packs. You can count me out of most of those (rich would be okay though).<br /><br />me thinks you missed the point of oneness. We are only 98.4% one with chimps lol<br /><br /><br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-72402770419489226862014-01-31T16:29:10.120-08:002014-01-31T16:29:10.120-08:00Armstrongists should forget lowered expectations a...Armstrongists should forget lowered expectations and have absolutely no expectations: They have put their hope in lies which will not be fulfilled and their religion has already failed them.<br /><br />Over decades, ministers and CoHAM leaders insisted that I was a lesser person to be ignored or treated with contempt because I was a nothing and a nobody who had no worth -- they criticized me often and made every attempt to publicly humiliate me -- and they still do in their own way.<br /><br />Their egotistical narcissistic assumption of hubris of their own superiority over others is annoying. <br /><br />It is high time they admitted the truth and slink away in embarrassment, never to be seen or heard from again.<br /><br />They deserve to be ignored and treated with utter contempt in their deceitful delusions of grandeur as utter fools with no knowledge of any worth to anyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-17281388746364039602014-01-31T16:12:00.972-08:002014-01-31T16:12:00.972-08:00Sorry but we are not all one. You might as well s...Sorry but we are not all one. You might as well say we're all rich, poor, monkys, zebras, negros, women, psychokillers, or david packs. You can count me out of most of those (rich would be okay though). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-77147755969476723202014-01-31T12:22:37.960-08:002014-01-31T12:22:37.960-08:00BOM. I find if one lowers expectations they are m...BOM. I find if one lowers expectations they are more easily met lolDennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-47757586750982452612014-01-31T12:20:56.220-08:002014-01-31T12:20:56.220-08:00When I think of otherness I think of the otherness...When I think of otherness I think of the otherness that divides and makes one special over all which religion is wont to do. Everyone is other to me and I to them. But there is no real tension between us over it. Resisting or pointing out the malignant otherness of others is not to deny them their story and quirkiness. But it is to insert a caution that the malignant and special otherness of some is out there and damaging to those who can't or refuse to see it. That they do is really not my business nor if they agree with me or others is not the point either. <br /><br />Someone telling me that their otherness is the only one and that for me to not accept that is to put me in spiritual danger with the Deity for all eternity is simply not accpetable nor is it true.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-1510614860080538712014-01-31T10:29:09.176-08:002014-01-31T10:29:09.176-08:00Getting stuck in a COG seat , to me, cuts one off ...Getting stuck in a COG seat , to me, cuts one off from real growth. It is as if there is NOTHING more to learn or know outside of booklets and church sponsored by a few others who , to me, are just as unconscious of what else there is to know and real-ize. In the COGs, one just seems to wait and wait for what is surely not really going to come in this lifetime. And yes, to me, I know that. Others may have more insight than I do on such happenings but history is on my side.<br /><br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-39509538389011071512014-01-31T08:46:56.629-08:002014-01-31T08:46:56.629-08:00I am special.
There aren't many who can suppo...I am special.<br /><br />There aren't many who can support zOS on an IBM Mainframe as a System Programmer.<br /><br />I have also been known to be a DB2 System Administrator. I have extremely good skills at HLASM (and if you have to ask, you aren't worth my attention).<br /><br />If David Pack, Ronald Weinland, Gerald Flurry, Victor Kubik, John Rittenbaugh, Roderick Meredith or any of the others can do what I can do and can do it better, THEN I will be impressed.<br /><br />Note: I just finished a successful build of my I7-4771 Windows 8.1 System with an ASRock Z87 Extreme11/ac LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard -- installing those extended ATX boards is really challenging, especially when trying to match up the on board connections with the EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 P2 80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified 1000W Active PFC ATX12V v2.31/EPS 12V v2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready ECO Thermal Control Full Modular PSU 220-P2-1000-XR NEW Intel 4th Gen CPU Ready Power Supply. Does using the Kingston HyperX Beast 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200) Desktop Memory mean that I have the Mark of the Beast or does it mean I AM the Beast of Revelation? Heck, I'm still getting requests from minister's wives for help with Windows 8. Shouldn't an apostle, evangelist or especially a prophet be able to handle it? What do they know about Thunderbolt 2, USB3 or SATA III SSDs? (Watching them set up Raid 10 should be entertaining -- the sparks from shorting out components should be electrifying!)<br /><br />Cult of Herbert Armstrong Mafia Dons are so irrelevant and stupid too -- they should learn some science and achieve some technical skills to have any value at all. Trouble is, they have no talent for it -- and when I say talent, I mean technological as well as being an apostle, evangelist or prophet.<br /><br />We have a 100% fail rate for them all.<br /><br />I'm unimpressed.<br /><br />Their members need to prepare themselves for lowered expectations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-86131079144820899022014-01-31T07:58:38.199-08:002014-01-31T07:58:38.199-08:00Dennis, I do find you interesting.
Here is the p...Dennis, I do find you interesting. <br /><br />Here is the problem though with your thesis, should we accept it...<br /><br />There are those who believe in their "otherness". <br /><br />If we are enlightened, then we do not believe in our otherness, and realize that those who do believe in their "otherness" are Indeed OTHER than us too. <br /><br />Therefore those of us who "get it" are OTHER than those who believe they are THE OTHER. <br /><br />We must seek the state of B-eing . So I am going to add the "B" to the OTHER , and say ... why BOTHER!<br /><br />Luv, <br />Joe Moeller <br />Cody, WY <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762918803284340960noreply@blogger.com