tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post460726248068601960..comments2024-03-28T11:56:20.417-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Of Battles and Boils: What Would REALLY Happen if the Earth Suddenly Stopped Rotating?NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-29128507357079095772019-02-05T09:00:35.238-08:002019-02-05T09:00:35.238-08:00Retired Prof, I recognize that BB is a good man. ...Retired Prof, I recognize that BB is a good man. I respect him as an individual. Why he returned to "faith" is beyond me, but I guess it filled some psychological need. Al Dexternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-72190396767433604562019-02-04T20:07:51.776-08:002019-02-04T20:07:51.776-08:00Al Dexter, as you know, my own unbelief is just ab...Al Dexter, as you know, my own unbelief is just about as deeply entrenched as yours. However, I do not join you in urging Byker Bob to abandon his belief. He's already spent several years as an atheist and discovered it did not work for him. The faith he now has does. <br /><br />His personal life satisfaction aside, his belief in a magical being "up There" does not detract from his considerable value to other readers of this blog--both believers and unbelievers. In fact, I suspect that his world view gives him credibility in the eyes of many readers that encourages them to accept his wisdom.<br /><br />Retired Profnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-41359047630296733352019-02-04T19:04:43.811-08:002019-02-04T19:04:43.811-08:00Yes, BB, I did an impersonation Lincoln. Made the ...Yes, BB, I did an impersonation Lincoln. Made the big hat out of cardboard and the whole works. <br /><br />Al Dexternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-12484625485106573022019-02-04T11:13:38.031-08:002019-02-04T11:13:38.031-08:00Allen, as a young Ambassador College student, didn...Allen, as a young Ambassador College student, didn't you do an Abraham Lincoln impersonation for the talent show at the F/T in Big Sandy, Texas? I seem to remember it being based on the Gettysburg Address, but incorporating elements from the cigarette commercials of the day in key places. <br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-47848946927840643322019-02-04T08:54:18.427-08:002019-02-04T08:54:18.427-08:00Well, BB, you're part way there, but you'v...Well, BB, you're part way there, but you've never been able to abandon the crutch of belief in inanity. I do appreciate that you defend Dennis's approach to reason and facts. I used to preach to you in New York, and I'm sorry to say that you haven't progressed much beyond the gullibility of childhood since you still think there's a magical being "up There," wherever that might be. Al Dexternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-58574158539666477882019-02-04T08:22:50.544-08:002019-02-04T08:22:50.544-08:00From a practical point of view - fighting for 36 h...From a practical point of view - fighting for 36 hours straight without a break????<br />That would be a HUUUUGE miracle - enough to even impress our President.TLAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-63024186370324405852019-02-04T07:41:31.163-08:002019-02-04T07:41:31.163-08:00Wow if course.
Yes and no raised the bar here.
Th...Wow if course.<br /><br />Yes and no raised the bar here.<br />Those scientifically inclined might still take a look at my quantam leap article.<br /><br />But hey I like poetic license even more. <br /><br />Ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-46034543744867284272019-02-04T01:04:01.160-08:002019-02-04T01:04:01.160-08:00“... and in prayer lord Agamemnon spake among them...“... and in prayer lord Agamemnon spake among them, saying.“Zeus, most glorious, most great, lord of the dark clouds, that dwellest in the heaven, grant that the sun set not, neither darkness come upon us, until I have cast down in headlong ruin the hall of Priam, blackened with smoke, and have burned with consuming fire the portals thereof, and cloven about the breast of Hector his tunic, rent with the bronze; and in throngs may his comrades round about him fall headlong in the dust, and bite the earth” ” (Homer, Iliad, Book 2, lines 411-18).<br /><br />“The significance of the sun stopping may simply be that the daylight hours were lengthened so Joshua had more time to defeat the enemy. This would make sense, given that battles in the ancient Near East ceased at sunset. But the fact that the sun and moon are both mentioned requires further explanation...” (Jerome F.D. Creach, Joshua, Interp., p.92).<br /><br />My preference, FWIIW, would be that, as a result of God’s intervention, that instead of say 12 hours of light and twelve hours of darkness, on this day there was say 15 hours of light and 9 hours of darkness. But see below.<br /><br />[Christ said that He would be three days and three nights [should He have said 3 nights and 3 days to be more accurate?] in the heart of the earth. The first day and night may have only been 2 hours - using ANE thought-forms; see R. Eliazar ben Azariah - last quarter of the first century and beginning of the second - on ‘onahs’].<br /><br />The difficulty for today’s readers of the Bible, informed by Modern Western thoughtforms, is that the Bible was written by writers informed by ANE thoughtforms - the previous paragraph highlights this difficulty in interpretation - some take the time-frame literally, when it should be taken idiomatically - cp. “I will be there in a minute”].<br /><br />“The interpretation of verse 12-14 is difficult, but an important starting point is to take seriously its poetic nature - that its thought world is phenomenological and metaphorical rather than historical or scientific. The best option is to read verses 12-13 figuratively as a poetic depiction of the military conflict on a cosmic scale. It compares to the claim of another poem, the Song of Deborah, that “from the heavens the stars fought, from their course they fought against Siserta” (Judges 5.20)...” ((Robert L. Hubbard Jr., Joshua, NIVAC), p.297).<br /><br />(In regard to “cosmic reality that underline history” cp. the six angels killing the inhabitant of Jerusalem in Ezekiel 9 with the Chaldeans in 2 Chr 36:17; and the cosmic calvary of Rev 9:13-19 with 2 Kings 6:17).<br /><br />Jos 10:13 And the sun and the moon stood still, until God executed vengeance on their enemies; and the sun stood still in the midst of heaven; it did not proceed to set till the end of one day” (LXX, Brenton).<br /><br />Jos 10:13 And (still) the sun in the middle of the heavens, and did not hasten go to (down) for a day full (IHGEB). ( “a day full” equals an onah?)<br /><br />“What is the precise meaning of this passage it is difficult to say. The language is very obscure. It has been usually interpreted to mean that the sun remained in the heavens twelve hours longer than usual. But this, though the most natural [at least from a modern western perspective], is by no means the only interpretation of the passage. The words, "did not hasten to go down as a perfect day," cannot be proved to have this meaning. In fact, it is difficult to fix a precise meaning on them. They belong rather to the domain of poetry than history, and their language is that of hyperbole rather than of exact narration of facts. Consequently, we are not entitled to build conclusions upon them, or draw arguments from them. It seems tolerably clear that twelve additional hours could hardly have been required by the Israelites for the complete extermination of their enemies” (Pulpit Commentary).<br /><br />The above hopefully highlights some of the points that need addressing in an attempting to gain some understanding of what may have actually happened from this ANE historical account.Yes and No to HWAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-14969476391573819722019-02-04T00:11:58.044-08:002019-02-04T00:11:58.044-08:00I do not believe any God deals in Fata Morgana, Wi...I do not believe any God deals in Fata Morgana, Wizzardry or Illusions.<br /><br />God must act through scientific laws.<br /><br />Perhaps the Josua incident happened through God or it happened purely scientifically without any God.<br /><br />But if in fact it happened perhaps the answer lies in Superposition or Entanglement, and qubits made for some amazing bible story.<br /><br />https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612844/what-is-quantum-computing/<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-40912453145535303412019-02-03T21:38:01.571-08:002019-02-03T21:38:01.571-08:003.38 PM
In the beginning, God created the simulati...3.38 PM<br />In the beginning, God created the simulation...<br />A simulation with no glitches or flaws is near impossible to create. It would require endless new music and discussion programs when people dial through their radio stations. And endless intelligent articles in magazine and newspapers when people browse through them. And all this to instantainiously response to peoples ongoing choices. Near impossible, even for God. Unless He dumbed down everything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-32018550856450774392019-02-03T17:25:21.445-08:002019-02-03T17:25:21.445-08:003:38 PM, we are a simulation being run during the ...3:38 PM, we are a simulation being run during the Millennial rule of Jesus Christ, allowing people to see the danger and folly of living man's way apart from God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-82142187957955784722019-02-03T15:38:34.219-08:002019-02-03T15:38:34.219-08:00Suppose everything is a simulation. Did God ever ...Suppose everything is a simulation. Did God ever say it's <i>not</i> a simulation? <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-79866377974189634932019-02-03T13:03:42.259-08:002019-02-03T13:03:42.259-08:00This is a forum that supports opposing points of v...This is a forum that supports opposing points of view.<br />Lets not be like the looney left and looney right of today's politicians and believe it is my way or the highway.<br />We come from - or are still in - an organization where everyone was required to think exactly the same.<br />If God wanted perfect uniformity, He would have made robots instead of humans.TLAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-47578575881036860582019-02-03T12:52:14.943-08:002019-02-03T12:52:14.943-08:00Here’s the way Dennis’s rubbing goes: To a practi...Here’s the way Dennis’s rubbing goes: To a practicing Armstrongite, just the fact that an ex-minister still exists and can publish his thoughts rubs them the wrong way. To some ex-members, Dennis is apparently their strawman stereotype of every mean and spiteful overbearing ACOG minister they ever met, and they’d confront him if he stated that water is wet. He rubs believers the wrong way because he is a nonbeliever, and regularly presents his case for non-belief. <br /><br />My point would be that none of these things should totally invalidate him as a person, or one to be discarded or disregarded. But, that’s what we were programmed to do with anyone who did not drink the Armstrong Kool Aid. “They” were all wrong, and one day we’d all be vindicated and shown to be right. That programming is not only hard to shake, yo, but some don’t even recognize it for what it is and attempt to shake it.<br /><br />The guy is just someone who has different understanding from that of the different other tribes here. It would be extremely unusual if there were so many as two posters here who believed and felt exactly the same. Not even twins do that. Just as diversity in biology keeps the gene pool fresh, diversity in opinion sharpens our intellect. Except for people who have quit learning.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-13027916953070094292019-02-03T12:29:58.028-08:002019-02-03T12:29:58.028-08:00Jim AZ
'God always suspends His natural laws.&...Jim AZ<br />'God always suspends His natural laws.' Not really. There are 'exceptions' but generally God honours His laws. For instance, Christ turned water into wine. Wine is mostly water, so the change in minimal. Christ used a few fish and loaves of bread to feed thousands. Again He was honoring that fish come from fish (fishing or animal breeding) and that grain food comes from grain (seeds plus farming). Notice also that God mostly uses other nations armies to punish evil nations, rather than direct miracles such as plagues. God has His miracle tool kit, but it's at the service of His ten commandments. There is no "2+2=4 except when it doesn't." Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-39750849681638685862019-02-03T12:10:22.993-08:002019-02-03T12:10:22.993-08:00Jim AZ
Christ was asked that question by the young...Jim AZ<br />Christ was asked that question by the young rich man, to which He answered 'keep the commandments.' If one doesn't have to qualify for the kingdom as some claim, please explain the lake of fire with the weeping and gnashing of teeth thingy. If you believe that everyone should unconditionally be allowed into the kingdom, let me introduce you to some of my relatives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-41460252204914741252019-02-03T11:36:54.671-08:002019-02-03T11:36:54.671-08:00We have historical records meticulously preserved ...We have historical records meticulously preserved by several advanced civilizations and it's never mentioned that the earth stopped rotating for a whole day or that the sun went backward. Just didn't happen. I overhear fantastic statements by ignorant people every day I'm out in public for very long. The conspiracy and unscientific utterances boggle the mind.Al Dexternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-51260924029873643452019-02-03T11:31:43.554-08:002019-02-03T11:31:43.554-08:00The problem with Dennis is he “rubs” people the wr...The problem with Dennis is he “rubs” people the wrong way. We are told on one hand to “prove all things, and to hold fast to what is true.” But when we read a scripture and ask how did this happen. We are supposed to make sure the answer fits in our neat little box of beliefs. God always suspends his laws natural laws is the answer. I find it hard to prove something when rules change back and forth. 2+2=4 except when it doesn’t. The questions Dennis raises make sense to me.<br />Jim-AZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-58831761116918666122019-02-03T11:28:01.445-08:002019-02-03T11:28:01.445-08:00Oh yes.
He said that after the war at one point i...Oh yes. <br />He said that after the war at one point in his development had a crisis of faith, because he could not reconcile a good and just God and the events that he had gone through and the injustices he and millions of others had suffered.<br /><br />After a while he concluded that there must be a Creator, that was chrystal clear to him and that the Almighty had given us finite minds and which just cannot comprehend what we ve gone through and therefore it is gods will that we do not understand and that we do believe in him purely through faith and not logic. And so he remained a practicing believer.<br /><br />Ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-67124285471834222472019-02-03T11:16:52.835-08:002019-02-03T11:16:52.835-08:00"I agree, the simplest explanation is usually..."I agree, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. The explanation is that Dennis is jumping through intellectual loops to rob people of their belief in God and the bible. This because he is jealous that others are qualifying for the kingdom, but he has failed to do so himself. <br />A very simply explanation indeed!"<br /><br />Very simple (minded) and self-congratulatory.Al Dexternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-68888708919980042812019-02-03T11:12:38.439-08:002019-02-03T11:12:38.439-08:00Anon 9:14
“Dennis is jealous that others are quali...Anon 9:14<br />“Dennis is jealous that others are qualifying for the kingdom, but he has failed to do so himself.”<br />Please explain how one qualifies for the kingdom. <br />Jim-AZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-77146516369001914112019-02-03T11:10:53.604-08:002019-02-03T11:10:53.604-08:00People with ideas different from your own can only...People with ideas different from your own can only “rob” you if you allow them to. Sometimes, they do offer the occasional useable nugget which you can borrow to your benefit. You get to evaluate and discern!<br /><br />As Armstrongites, we weren’t allowed to think things through to logical conclusion, to consider alternative possibilities, to trouble-shoot, or to seek out second opinions. Our approved role was to receive and to believe. In this way, we were disempowered. The “apostle” was not to be questioned, and his ideas were not to be subjected to testing or even basic logic. We were taught that this was for our own good so that we would not fall away. But, what they meant by this was falling away from Armstrongism, which they equated with falling away from God.<br /><br />There is one major problem with that. HWA was not Jesus Christ, and certainly not infallible. So, HWA doesn’t get to set the tone or to define, and therefore you won’t qualify for anything by allowing him to do so in your life. He was just a man, who tried to convince, and place himself in a position of power over you. That was the grand illusion which he employed.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-11655204492194051982019-02-03T09:56:44.704-08:002019-02-03T09:56:44.704-08:00749 " I am convinced..."749 " I am convinced..."Dennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17266112796114131485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-20830662591291484252019-02-03T09:40:06.700-08:002019-02-03T09:40:06.700-08:009:14
It's just that "we" are ready ...9:14<br /><br />It's just that "we" are ready to take a relationship with God beyond a bronze age level. (In all humility.) (And arrogance) since he is not responding to our challenges except by threats through his adherents.<br /><br />I am 100 percent a challenger. Then again I am listening to the last holocaust survivors. As a kid one of them looked at the treetops beyond the barracks where his family was burnedand prayed to God to "get him out of that hellhole and he promised to never ask for favors anymore" and now he is talking to me in the park. And now I am a 100 percent believer.<br /><br />Ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-56492137995222934572019-02-03T09:14:27.153-08:002019-02-03T09:14:27.153-08:00I agree, the simplest explanation is usually the c...I agree, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. The explanation is that Dennis is jumping through intellectual loops to rob people of their belief in God and the bible. This because he is jealous that others are qualifying for the kingdom, but he has failed to do so himself. <br />A very simply explanation indeed!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com