tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post5032575879335125902..comments2024-03-28T13:22:17.980-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: COGWA: Setting The Standard For ArmstrongismNO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-71716222693804900152012-08-27T14:50:28.841-07:002012-08-27T14:50:28.841-07:00Fred, men who go around pointing at the moon are r...Fred, men who go around pointing at the moon are rather suspect.<br /><br />Wait -- good parable, then.Assistant Deaconnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-43493833379602940792012-08-27T12:13:01.203-07:002012-08-27T12:13:01.203-07:00A wise man once pointed to the Moon but the idiot ...A wise man once pointed to the Moon but the idiot only looked at his finger...<br /><br />In like manner:<br />HWA pointed to God and a large body of idiots only looked at his finger.<br /><br />I looked past HWA and saw God.<br /><br />I thank both HWA (if I could) and I thank God!Fred Smithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-68400541915413465562012-06-27T10:14:28.283-07:002012-06-27T10:14:28.283-07:00Good on you for apologizing, Dennis.
Obviously Do...Good on you for apologizing, Dennis.<br /><br />Obviously Douglas Becker is suffering more from the wounds of Armstrongism than most of us. <br /><br />Douglas, take heart. Okay if I do a little parable?<br /><br />When I was a little boy, I fell down with a glass bottle and cut my wrist. It severed an artery and a nerve. My mother stopped the bleeding with a pressure bandage, but the nerve injury left my wrist and the base of my thumb all tingly. After about fifty years, I could stand to wear a watch on that wrist.<br /><br />The scar is still there. It will never go away. It is not troublesome, really; in fact, it has become part of my character. My wrist wouldn't look right without the scar.Retired Profnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-85358530946368116542012-06-26T14:42:38.555-07:002012-06-26T14:42:38.555-07:00I apologize for getting cranky. The old pain body...I apologize for getting cranky. The old pain body was hungry. That's not the authentic me. :)DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-23484520713273724362012-06-26T10:38:25.719-07:002012-06-26T10:38:25.719-07:00Andrew said:
“Finally, if you believe this is an i...Andrew said:<br />“Finally, if you believe this is an internet "gossip mill" what are you doing here?”<br /> <br />Lets be realistic how else would describe the information presented in this type of forum? What difference is there between this than all the chatter the goes on in local congregations of WCG? <br />Why do I look at these sites? What is presented is part of my life’s story. I will make a comment regarding who I am as a response to another caustic remark.<br />Mr. NobodyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-6327775730765881212012-06-26T10:08:25.235-07:002012-06-26T10:08:25.235-07:00One of the problems with things written by many CO...One of the problems with things written by many COGers is the "tendency" they have to unnecessarily put things in "quotes," such as "Gossip mills" and "generalities."<br /><br />"Rod Meredith" still does it all the time. HWA "started" it, and it drives me "bonkers" to this day.Assistant Deaconnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-84525721755296162512012-06-26T09:27:12.910-07:002012-06-26T09:27:12.910-07:00There's always someone who criticizes someone ...There's always someone who criticizes someone for drawing a conclusion based upon years of experience, long afterwards, saying that they're "judging" others, and doing it "before all the facts are in." Really? And at what point are all the facts ever in? Never. Of course.<br /><br />What you're really saying is, don't judge, don't discern, don't draw any conclusions, don't have any gut feelings about anything, and if you ever do, for heaven's sake, don't say it out loud. First of all, that's impossible, second, you don't particularly have a right to tell people what to think, or to forbid them from telling the truth. Who exactly are you setting yourself up as? A minister?<br /><br />Finally, if you believe this is an internet "gossip mill" what are you doing here?Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-74801157900892650722012-06-26T08:28:29.955-07:002012-06-26T08:28:29.955-07:00"One of the problems that will always exist i..."One of the problems that will always exist in these internet “Gossip mills” is the people who set themselves up as judge and jury making decisions before all of the facts are in."<br /><br />Anonymous wasn't judging, or making generalizations; he said that the majority of the ministers he personally met were psychopaths. <br /><br />Paul R.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-41026125532580357882012-06-26T07:35:21.807-07:002012-06-26T07:35:21.807-07:00Anon Said:
Were there a few honest and sincere min...Anon Said:<br />Were there a few honest and sincere ministers? Yes. However most of the ones I met definitely were NOT, and I met a lot of them.<br /><br />One of the problems that will always exist in these internet “Gossip mills” is the people who set themselves up as judge and jury making decisions before all of the facts are in. Another problem is the use of “generalities” based on personal opinions. Experience has taught me that making judgments regarding the character of others is subject to the limited facts of the one judging. The teachings attributed to Jesus the Christ in Mat 7:1-2 NASB is; "Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.” This would a good standard for responding in some of the “Gossip Mill” comments. Of course this is just a personal opinion.<br />Mr. NobodyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-88736968587209546682012-06-25T20:55:15.323-07:002012-06-25T20:55:15.323-07:00"If I had been allowed to go to Ambassador Co..."If I had been allowed to go to Ambassador College and become a minister, would I have taught crap, act as a conduit for abuse and misuse of people and their money and then complain when I didn't get the promised severance package?"<br /><br />Chill out Dennis. When I read Douglas' comment, your name didn't come to my mind at all. I know this might be hard for you to accept tonight, but life isn't always all about you. <br /><br />Douglas makes a VERY valid point. I can think of a half-dozen or MORE ministers, right off the top of my head, who are guilty of everything he said.....right down to the part about complaining they didn't get a severance after willfully accepting for years a paycheck funded through means they knew were not 100% honorable. If you play in a mudpuddle you are bound to get dirty.<br /><br />Douglas has every right to say what he has said. Is he sometimes over the top? Sure, but that's his way of dealing with the experience.<br /><br />While I often enjoy reading what you write, and indeed you have written a lot, I find your defense of the ministry to be pollyannish at best. Were there a few honest and sincere ministers? Yes. However most of the ones I met definitely were NOT, and I met a lot of them. They were little psychopathic monsters with big egos. And even the honest and sincere ones helped propagate both an ideology and a culture that brought immense harm upon those who were unfortunate enough to buy into it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-37457288381344800302012-06-25T11:34:18.162-07:002012-06-25T11:34:18.162-07:00Douglas said:
"If I had been allowed to go t...Douglas said:<br /><br />"If I had been allowed to go to Ambassador College and become a minister, would I have taught crap, act as a conduit for abuse and misuse of people and their money and then complain when I didn't get the promised severance package?"<br /><br />I don't know what your problem is Doug, but I get tired of your veiled bullshit. I have read your wisecracks directed towards me as the one who defends my minister friends and such that you post on more obscure sites. You aren't all that able to cover your wisecracks in a general way.<br /><br />You're personal and obvious repetative bitterness would suck anyone's brains out. If one is going to have an experience I'd rather process it as I have than as you do. <br /><br /> If you have something to direct towards me, want to know what may or may not have been in my heart or even how I feel about mistakes made out of either ignorance of my youth or thinking it was not a mistake, just ask me. <br /><br />But keep your passive aggressive bullshit directed at me to yourself. You have your story and I have mine. Don't try to tell me about my story and I'll stay out of yours.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-907670635875425942012-06-25T10:36:16.574-07:002012-06-25T10:36:16.574-07:00I've long realized that we live in a basically...I've long realized that we live in a basically "mafia world." Banking is a mafia. The US congress operates like a mafia. Big corporations are basically mafias. Etc. Etc.<br /><br />The only diffference is the contrived legalities that make one mafia OK but the original organization is called "organized crime."<br /><br />HWA was a don. All of his successors operate as dons, and I mean all. Some are smarter and a little more benevolent than others, but threaten them in any way, and all bets are off as to how far they could and might go. They are all ruthless in protecting the "family."<br /><br />We really haven't progressed very far from our primate ancestors. If you want to be a "silver back," you have to be ruthless.Allen C. Dexterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06615706118359802452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-76497828838705827842012-06-25T10:21:59.032-07:002012-06-25T10:21:59.032-07:00Oh yes, I did hear that a sum of generous American...Oh yes, I did hear that a sum of generous American donations from a FOT given for the brethren in Leyte wound up being used for the 'pastor's son-in-law's computer cafe.<br /><br />Actually, I can't say much more because of the danger it might create...and I am dead serious about that.UCG Filipino Scammersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-26054296057833849752012-06-25T10:13:40.820-07:002012-06-25T10:13:40.820-07:00I personally know the so-called 'pastor'/&...I personally know the so-called 'pastor'/'elder' who left UCG Philippines for COGWA and took all the provincial funds including the paltry tithes of the poverty-stricken brethren which he systematically flew in to collect and then flew right back home monthly. These funds regularly resided in his personal bank account. When one deacon asked how the funds were being distributed, he said, 'I won't tell you.'<br /><br />According to those who know locally, when the remaining UCG district Pastor went to this man's house to retrieve the UCG funds, he would not answer the door.<br /><br />But he did manage to spend thousands of what he took on he and his wife to quickly fly to the US COGWA planning meeting.<br /><br />His other habits included literally taking all the second tithes of the regional brethren when they first arrived at FOT, leaving them with nothing but lodging and mediocre meals, and putting the brethren up to asking visiting westerners for financial assistance which he also 'handled,' keeping the vast bulk of it in his personal family use.<br /><br />He heard he still does this in COGWA year by year, and the regional director thinks nothing of it.<br /><br />The 'ministers' in the Philippines have vast compounds and their brethren have less than nothing.<br /><br />The 'Ambassador experience' continues...Filipino UCG Scammersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-76089379702592650862012-06-25T09:43:34.563-07:002012-06-25T09:43:34.563-07:00'"For some reason I find this incredibly ...'"For some reason I find this incredibly disturbing.'<br /><br />He was referring to Ron's obvious choice of less than stellar men to work close to him so that they don't seem to catch on to what Ron was really doing."'<br /><br />Actually I was referring to those COG leaders who go to all this trouble to run a scam- they don't believe in god at all, and everything they do is carefully calculated to bring in money, including parroting HWA. It's all sales tactics. <br /><br />Paul R.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-27336995442303448902012-06-25T07:40:57.079-07:002012-06-25T07:40:57.079-07:00On June 24, 2012 12:57 PM, "Mr. Nobody" ...On June 24, 2012 12:57 PM, "Mr. Nobody" wrote some very ignorant comments, of the stupid, 'horses-ass' variety. <br /><br />"Mr. Nobody" wrote, <i>"...those poor people in the local congregations were not intelligent enough to manage their own affairs."</i><br /><br />Ah, wonderful! <br />Again, "Mr. Nobody" comes on with the old "Blame the victims!", cult apologist mentality.<br /><br />"Mr. Nobody" wrote, <i>"I can guarantee that those who are attracted to groups such as those have been made to feel they are important and comments such as you made will only drive the wedge deeper since there no evidence of concern for their feelings."</i><br /><br />OH, NOES!!! <br />"Mr. Nobody" is here to tell us, once again,..... that criticizing Assmaster HWA is actually HURTING all those victims of HWA!!!<br /><br />"Mr. Nobody" wrote, <br /><i>"I am fully aware of the fact that people are still involved in those questionable fellowships, but I also recognize that there is a social need being filled that you cannot possibly understand."</i><br /><br />"Mr. Nobody", Are you really so stupid that you think that anyone here doesn't understand that there's a social need being filled by the kooky splinters of HWA's kooky asinine church???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-29983895013637167122012-06-25T07:34:53.494-07:002012-06-25T07:34:53.494-07:00DB I really feel sorry for you (honestly)
What as...<i>DB I really feel sorry for you (honestly)</i><br /><br />What asinine arrogance exhibiting such shallow contempt.<br /><br />People addicted to Armstrongism are incapable of understanding narcissism, sociopaths and psychopaths <b>because they choose not to</b>. They have no capability in their own arrogance to see that they are pathetic losers who need to come out of their addiction. They believe that Revelation 18:4 applies to everyone else and not to them. I experienced that for awhile and so have most of those here.<br /><br />The lack of understanding will persist until the recognition of just how deluded we've been in following huckster lying con men. Until then, nada -- wallowing in the shallow end of the gene pool.<br /><br />And just so you know, it isn't mental illness: Read the "People of the Lie" -- some people are just plain evil.<br /><br />As for the CoGWA, my one visit to them last year showed me that the top leadership is willing to stand in front of the congregation and flat out lie to them (no, the Waldensians never kept the Sabbath, Larry, but you <b>knew</b> that). The leaders of all the Armstrongist splinters are liars -- by definition, since Armstrongism is rooted solely in British Israelism, a lie of the first order of magnitutude.<br /><br />So all you addicted in Armstrongism can feel fat, dumb and happy as being rich and increased in goods and needing nothing, even if your particular cult leader is a convicted felon. And the rest? They can feel validated in their arrogance that THEY are not part of a false church of God like the duped lower cattle of some other group.<br /><br />Think again bucko.<br /><br />As for feeling disturbed, one only need look at "The Lucifer Effect" by Dr. Phillip Zimbardo in the recounting of the erstwhile guard trying to win over the prisoner years after the experiment. Not much excuse for the abuse. The guard was not a bad person, was he? He wanted to know and pressed the prisoner he abused to say that he would have done the same thing if he were a guard. The answer: "I don't know". That wasn't the point. The point is that the guard did evil things.<br /><br />If I had been allowed to go to Ambassador College and become a minister, would I have taught crap, act as a conduit for abuse and misuse of people and their money and then complain when I didn't get the promised severance package? I don't know. Maybe, just maybe, I would have gone postal once I learned the lies and the question would be moot as I waited for sentencing to prison for 2nd degree. Who can know? I can suspect.<br /><br />I guess you just have to discern where the evil things come from.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-83109637197274736782012-06-25T06:47:28.468-07:002012-06-25T06:47:28.468-07:00Thanks Dennis,
I am glad to see some common sense ...Thanks Dennis,<br />I am glad to see some common sense in this thread. I believe your expierences have a higher purpose than anyone can understand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-6356903003128001402012-06-25T05:24:48.857-07:002012-06-25T05:24:48.857-07:00Hey Dennis,
I agree with you, I wish my parents n...Hey Dennis, <br />I agree with you, I wish my parents never heard of WCG and thusly myself. I find now that I have lost all of my passion for any religion at all. I still want to believe in God, but I don't want to have anything to do with any church/synagogue. I've checked out other churces and they are all the same. Some of them try to do things for the community, which is nice, but they all want your money to do it. I know a church needs money to run, and I guess some people feel that they get their monies worth with thei emotions pumped up by the spiritual cheerleading. I doubt I will ever be emotionally fullfilled by the spiritual gymnastics of any preacher ever again. If God can still be found, I think He is on the outside of all these churches and sure isn't impressed by all the silliness.Mish-Mashnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-52446218327741219352012-06-25T04:29:58.179-07:002012-06-25T04:29:58.179-07:00A few posts back an "anonymous" said, re...A few posts back an "anonymous" said, referring to Ron Weinland,<br /><br />"For some reason I find this incredibly disturbing.'<br /><br />He was referring to Ron's obvious choice of less than stellar men to work close to him so that they don't seem to catch on to what Ron was really doing.<br /><br />I think that explains the major shift and seeing even more just how wrong the ministries of all these men are. I have been somewhat "depressed" and anxious all week and I believe it is tied to Ron's conviction and then seeing how he simply would not mention it in his next sermon. The man is either made of steel or in a denial so huge when it hits him the danger level will ratchet up a few more notches for all concerned. <br /><br />I have spoken of this in many other places, but to the point. I know how sincere I was as pastor in the WCG congregations I was in. I believed what I saw in the Bible as relevant to today and the times we lived in. Sabbath and Holydays made more sense to me than Easter and Christmas etc. I had been Presbyterian so did not consider myself sheltered from the other perspectives of what the NT says and what the Gospel of it was. <br /><br />The Weinland thing has reignited my anger at myself perhaps for being so stupid but just like a teen who goes off to fight in Vietnam only to find it was not for the reasons given him, being so gullible. I guess that's why goovernments draft kids and not experienced adults. You can be pumped up on "the truth", and fight or inspire and not see what the governments are really saying and doing. <br /><br />My personal recovery (do you ever?) from my poor choices or naive ones has been difficult. It has been very costly and emotionally debilitating. I assume I did not invent that reaction. There are some, such as a Weinland or Pack who have ice in their veins and live in a whole different world of thinking and understanding (not a compliment)<br /><br />At any rate, when anon said , "For some reason I find this incredibly disturbing." it struck a note with me and I appreciate that someone else could vocalize what seems to have been reignited in my regrets. <br /><br />The mindset of a Weinland, Pack or Meredith is disturbing and I wish I had never heard of WCG, which of course is now impossible as it has been most of my story in life. <br /><br />There must be some reason for all this distress and regret...DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-61674656443258739762012-06-24T20:06:37.672-07:002012-06-24T20:06:37.672-07:00Not to belabor the point either, but I think most ...Not to belabor the point either, but I think most of us here have done sufficient decades of slavitude in the "legalistic system" originally built by HWA to completely and totally understand the psychology of WCG and its many clones. You obviously don't know who you're talking to.<br /><br />The point I feel you're asking to be belabored is that it is WRONG to enslave people, no matter what the means used to do it. Even if the slaves remain duped and bedazzled and can't seem to figure out what is really going on, it's still WRONG and EVIL! I know this is a difficult point to grasp for some. Who gives a rat's ass about god's love, the grace principle, or calcified orthodoxy? The fact is, the leaders are con artists and the members are being enslaved by them, which is CONTRARY to their best interest. It is in the member's best interests to be taught how to be strong and how to become people who actually have some importance, not kept weak for the financial benefit of others. Who cares what light the slaves may see things in? What is really in their best interest is not changed by the lighting! Spin it however you want to, the whole thing is still WRONG! All people who are willing to be honest with themselves can know for sure which is the right light to see all these things in and which is the wrong light, because, check it out, god is NOWHERE to be %&#@!ng found! QEDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-28189447242674058562012-06-24T19:49:18.359-07:002012-06-24T19:49:18.359-07:00"God is disgusted with us..."
I'm s..."God is disgusted with us..."<br /><br />I'm sure God is relieved Malm cleared that up for him.Assistant Deaconnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-33389232705362373822012-06-24T17:14:10.278-07:002012-06-24T17:14:10.278-07:00Anonymous said:
In other words, Armstrongites are ...Anonymous said:<br />In other words, Armstrongites are weak people who are attracted by their need to feel important. All it costs is 20-30% of your income plus 1/7 of your time (minimum). Mind you, this is not for a cure, it is for ongoing management of the symptoms. COGs want people to continue to be weak and continue to feel unimportant. They do not want these people to be cured or to get better, they just want to keep them enslaved to their system, so that the money keeps coming in.<br /><br />I will not belabor the point, but I think there is a lack in understanding of the psychology of this religion. These people do not see their sacrifices of time and money in the same light as some may. They believe it is a service for God and what He is doing. Remember they believe they are God’s people and their leaders are chosen by God (whether the leaders believe this is debatable) and they are all important. It is an upside down situation. Instead of seeing God’s love for them in the fact that they are the work of God (not doing the work of God) they are in some way fulfilling an obligation to God for loving for them. The Grace principle is suppose to correct this, but it has not been explained well enough or correct enough to help many who have been a part of the legalistic system built by HWA. I am not sure this helps explain some of my comments, but main point is that we may be trying to fix a problem that they do not see as a problem.<br /><br />I did not intend this to be such a controversial issue, but some of the things brought out about those attracting peoples attention are things that Christianity dealt with before they solidified into the orthodox Roman church. <br />Maybe we can put it to bed. Unless someone sees a dangerously glowing problem in some of the things posted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-15732366334503091802012-06-24T15:11:58.101-07:002012-06-24T15:11:58.101-07:00"there is a social need being filled that you..."there is a social need being filled that you cannot possibly understand...those who are attracted to groups such as those have been made to feel they are important..."<br /><br />In other words, Armstrongites are weak people who are attracted by their need to feel important. All it costs is 20-30% of your income plus 1/7 of your time (minimum). Mind you, this is not for a cure, it is for ongoing management of the symptoms. COGs want people to continue to be weak and continue to feel unimportant. They do not want these people to be cured or to get better, they just want to keep them enslaved to their system, so that the money keeps coming in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-45670122413378642512012-06-24T15:00:43.078-07:002012-06-24T15:00:43.078-07:00Paul R. said:
The Biblical solution is a legitimat...Paul R. said:<br />The Biblical solution is a legitimate re-education process that includes destroying the dependency on man and building a confidence in a balanced personal belief and trust in the existence the God that is the origin of life."<br />Will never happen. Who is going to do the re-educating?<br /><br />You are right Paul. The whole history of Christianity has struggled with this problem from the very beginning. The only hope given is in the belief that Christ will return to establish such a government. If that is a fantasy; as Paul said we are to be greatly pitied, but it is the hope that keeps Christianity alive and well. Of course there are those who believe we will go to Heaven to a better life. In the mean time we could try to live a life of love toward God and neighbor; we might like it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com