tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post5763073824228955269..comments2024-03-29T05:22:27.348-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Passover Musings: But Is It and Does It Have to be Literally True?NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-39366568468799022382017-04-13T08:22:17.564-07:002017-04-13T08:22:17.564-07:00As I recall, the Israelites complained to Moses ab...As I recall, the Israelites complained to Moses about lack of water for their herds. They did not complain about lack of feed for their herd. Meaning, grass was abundant. It wasn't just sand and rock as assumed by Dennis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-2883180707389988262017-04-11T10:31:55.437-07:002017-04-11T10:31:55.437-07:009.44PM
This is 7.08AM and 8.28 AM. Both are my pos...9.44PM<br />This is 7.08AM and 8.28 AM. Both are my posts. I thought I already answered the comment about not knowing 'for sure' about peoples eternal fate. It seems many people have a problem wit basic reality, which is common in the COGs. Let me break it down. You have the law of gradualness. It takes times to mature as a people. Your 'final touchdown' is not meaningful in this context. It is not like s football game. Think of developing technical or sporting skills, it takes time. There comes a time when time has run out, no matter how hard one might try. The 'grey area' here is people going through the 'great tribulation.' But even then, this will only 'work' with people who have a good foundation in character, and have grown to a point. Others lacking this, will be destroyed in the tribulation, like the house built on sand.<br />Basic reality number two, the mind polarizes toward Gods or Satan way. Dennis ongoing articles trying to discredit God and the bible proves he has polarized to Satans way, the 'you shall know them by their fruits' thingy. <br />Sometimes the body of evidence is overwhelming. He has failed to qualify for eternal life. Christ did say that many will try, but fail to qualify. You seem to be a war with this painful, ugly reality.<br />I stopped attending services decades ago, so church (often idiotic) rules are meaningless to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-56680347983222930722017-04-11T05:22:10.700-07:002017-04-11T05:22:10.700-07:00The "breadbasket" in Roman times was Alg...The "breadbasket" in Roman times was Algeria, Tunisia, and parts of Libya. That is well after the youngest possible Sphinx-building era and has nothing to do, in any event, with the Sinai desert. (Thutmose IVs Dream Stele already has the Sphinx covered in sand up to its neck as of c. 1380 BC.)<br /><br />Of course, you could always reference Jeremiah 2:6's retelling...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-42651963090868692682017-04-11T01:48:52.390-07:002017-04-11T01:48:52.390-07:00Oh I forgot,
I was going to comment on BB's c...Oh I forgot,<br /><br />I was going to comment on BB's comment on the fighting christians.<br /><br />A day after I visited the "Nativity Church" in Behtlehem fighting broke out between the cleaning monks of the different christian faiths. Apparantly they devided the church in half in order to clean it and not cross each others area/line/faith. Disorder broke out and everyone was hitting each other with broom sticks until the palestinian police came in and stopped the hostilities.<br /><br />Just recently they opened the "grave of christ" for restoration. I believe this was possible because 3 of the 5 christian faiths agreed on the restoration. The muslim key holder opened it up for them.<br /><br />I still cannot find what HWA 's decoration offered by the patriarch of jerusalem, "the cross of constantine" means in terms of "diplomatic or other significance to the greek orthodox". But I guess the 4 other christian groups controlling the sites in Jerusalem would hold such decoration in contempt anyway.<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-31523351660614352122017-04-11T01:27:39.209-07:002017-04-11T01:27:39.209-07:00april 7 4:28
I am with BB on this one. Didn'...april 7 4:28 <br /><br />I am with BB on this one. Didn't read all the comments.<br /><br />Regarding ancient manuscripts I am a believer in localized events that over time garnered greater meaning. Regarding the numbers in ancient manuscripts. They are a rhetorical device just meaning "large group" or "small group". They are not to be taken literally.<br /><br />For instance in the bello gallico Julius Ceasar uses ridiculous numbers talking about the Celtic Tribes he defeats. Of course for political purposes, but moreso as an art form or device to enhance the significance of his deeds. They all happened albeit the numbers were not as recorded. <br /><br />On the other hand, Mesopotamian clay tablets have quite accurate numbers on trade and storage. Including the swear words, if someone is not paying the bill.<br /><br />Ah, those funny ancients.<br /><br />nck <br /><br />nckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-60280794553442348782017-04-10T21:44:11.122-07:002017-04-10T21:44:11.122-07:00April 9 2017 12:17 AM
Maybe I need to add somethi...April 9 2017 12:17 AM<br /><br />Maybe I need to add something for clarity as it *sounds like* you might be getting the wrong impression of what I said. <br /><br />I was addressing anonymous 12:07 AM and 8:28 AM, not anyone else and I wasn't condemning this blog. . I confess to being snarky by nature and anon's comment about Dennis not being in the kingdom pushed my buttons. None of us knows what the final score will be for anyone until the final 'touchdown'. Calling the game before it's over really stinks in my not so humble opinion. The "commanded to stay away from such people" part is in quotes as that is one of the COg's top 10 "commandments". With the COg's it seems, at times, that if you blow your nose the wrong way your out the door and shunned.<br /><br />Maybe I'm obtuse and misunderstanding your comment. Could you clarify?anonymous63noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-40049051031522320232017-04-10T15:45:00.279-07:002017-04-10T15:45:00.279-07:00Wikipedia says the great sphinx was built 2558-253...Wikipedia says the great sphinx was built 2558-2532 BC. Moses was born 1393 BE.<br />So we are looking at about 1200-1300 year difference. And there was no ruinous African farming practises changing the weather pattern. I recall reading that it was a red cross study that blamed the changed weather pattern in north Africa on the destructive farming in Roman times.<br /><br />Heavy rainfall doesn't mean that it rains everyday or that there is are pools of water every two days journey.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-77751008378121231172017-04-10T10:07:12.474-07:002017-04-10T10:07:12.474-07:00Besides, with heavy rainfall, did Moses really nee...Besides, with heavy rainfall, did Moses really need to bring water out from a rock?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-77311044679774743312017-04-10T10:00:19.760-07:002017-04-10T10:00:19.760-07:00Unfortunately, what you dont remember from that do...Unfortunately, what you dont remember from that documentary, or chose to omit, is that the erosion patterns on the Great Sphinx, its enclosure, and local excavations allow for a conservative dating of maybe 3000 BC, maybe 2500 if you reeeeeally want to push.<br /><br />The Exodus comes way later.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-79968579355673233482017-04-10T02:01:36.065-07:002017-04-10T02:01:36.065-07:00This article claims that the Sinai desert could no...This article claims that the Sinai desert could not support 2 million people and their animals. I watched a documentary hosted by the late Charlton Heaton on the Sphinx. It pointed out that the erosion patterns on its lower parts could only be the result of heavy rains. In the NT it mentions Christ telling people to sit on the grass. Meaning that weather patterns at that time, were very different to todays. In fact, North Africa was the bread basket of the a Roman empire, but faulty (greedy) farming practises ruined the land. This resulted in a change in the weather patterns.<br />There is also another natural phenomenon at work. Watching a YouTube documentary on the Sahara, it pointed out that there is a slight wobble in the Earth, which causes the monsoon rains to shift from north to south and back again. From memory, this shift takes place every 2000 years. So the Sahara (and by implication the Sinai) received heavy rainfalls during that earlier period.<br /><br />So again a misleading article by Dennis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-86170935545077687772017-04-09T00:26:19.621-07:002017-04-09T00:26:19.621-07:00Hmmm, on second thought, I might start my own blog...Hmmm, on second thought, I might start my own blog. I will call it 'The Restored BannedByHWA,' or 'The Continuing BannedByHWA,' or 'The United BannedByHWA.'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-50158558946043749052017-04-09T00:17:13.044-07:002017-04-09T00:17:13.044-07:009.12PM
"If you are in a COg why are you on th...9.12PM<br />"If you are in a COg why are you on this site if you feel this way? Aren't you "commanded to stay away from such people"?"<br /><br />This point comes up now and then. Not everyone shares your own map of reality. There are differences of opinion among 'dissidents.' If you feel that only this site is the 'True dissident Church of God, and dissenters should be excommunicated, I will start of site called Banned by BannedByHWA. Those who disagree with me, will start another site called 'Banned by Banned by BannedByHWA.'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-55575736603699058722017-04-09T00:00:49.047-07:002017-04-09T00:00:49.047-07:009.12PM
It was Dennis who first introduced the term...9.12PM<br />It was Dennis who first introduced the term 'shallow judgment' and I responded. Sometimes we can know 'for sure' whether someone did not qualify for the kingdom. There have been many cases of people of a poor character who have given up trying to live by Gods laws in the church. They have fallen by the wayside, and sometimes admit it. If a Christian is very old, (next to no time left to build the character for the kingdom) and has reverted to 'crown stealing,' I put that person in the 'practical certainty' category of not having qualified for the kingdom. <br />'Give honor to whom honor is due' means a duty of care in assessing people. I say this in response to harassing statements about assessing others.<br />I have had no response about God letting people into the kingdom who have a poison, murderous mouth, so join the club about unanswered questions.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-15841094077945109412017-04-08T21:12:24.135-07:002017-04-08T21:12:24.135-07:00Anonymous 12:07 AM and 8:28 AM
I never called it...Anonymous 12:07 AM and 8:28 AM <br /><br />I never called it "a shallow judgement" in fact I consider your "judgement" quite the opposite. It is harsh and condemning and, I think, out of line. It's also not your place or mine or anyone else's to make. We are not God. That is God's domain and decision after all is said and done. <br /><br />You didn't answer my question. I said, 'You, nor I, nor any other human being knows *for sure* who will or won't be in the kingdom. Is that the truth or not?" There are several other questions that you also avoided answering. Why is that?<br /><br />Anonymous 11:46 AM brought up some very valid points to consider in regard to being able to "tear apart the arguments of the critics". Are you, anon. 12:07 am., ever going to be able to teach in the kingdom if all you do is carry a big stick and beat your "subjects" into submission?<br /><br />Using the example of the atheist and the creationist discussing the flood, if the creationist doesn't study and prove and DISPROVE what is being discussed, they cannot make valid or rational points to shoot down 'error' or get another to consider their viewpoint. Condemning someone to hell-fire because you think what they believe is wrong without pointing out what is wrong and why, is well, wrong.<br /><br />If you are in a COg why are you on this site if you feel this way? Aren't you "commanded to stay away from such people"? anonymous63noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-40186268370583220632017-04-08T20:41:24.160-07:002017-04-08T20:41:24.160-07:00Never said his motives were irrelevant. Your attem...Never said his motives were irrelevant. Your attempt to deflect from the topic was. Want to say there's no evidence and take it on faith? Cool. No shame in that. Ad hominem out of the gate, yes, quite shameful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-74126946369364029472017-04-08T17:42:17.576-07:002017-04-08T17:42:17.576-07:00OK, 4:02, I believe that one qualifies for the ki...OK, 4:02, I believe that one qualifies for the kingdom by accepting Jesus Christ as one's personal savior, not by using will power to apply the tenets of Armstrongism on one's own. Jesus then produces the good fruits (works) in the Christian's life, by transforming and sanctifying His followers. To arrogantly state that you are "qualifying" is to take credit yourself, and to diminish the work that Jesus did for us on the cross at Calvary, and the work He is performing in our minds and lives. <br /><br />When people make statements to the effect that Dennis isn't qualifying for the kingdom, they may not see the big picture that God sees. That not qualifying thing is not even a judgment that we humans are permitted to make! Clearly, someone is being presumptuous here, and making some very stupid statements. No surprise, though. These are probably people who still think the Germans are coming!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-46273805830321855372017-04-08T16:43:01.138-07:002017-04-08T16:43:01.138-07:003.13 PM
On technical blogs, it is easy to compartm...3.13 PM<br />On technical blogs, it is easy to compartmentalize topics. Hence a sailing blog will have articles on sail rigging, anchors, tacking etc. I agree that it would be inappropriate to post a comment on mast rake, if the topic is gybing.<br />However, when it comes to religion or mortality, compartmentalisation is difficult since morality is interrelated. Concepts are not free floating. Which is why there is drift on most posts. Many people will read this post, and ask themselves what is Dennis's motive in doing so? Why criticise me for vocalising what many are thinking? Are his motives really 'completely irrelevant?'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-17331388654941160572017-04-08T16:02:44.457-07:002017-04-08T16:02:44.457-07:00BB
Regarding you rejecting 'qualifying for the...BB<br />Regarding you rejecting 'qualifying for the kingdom,' there are people both inside and outside the church, who every time they open their mouths, poison and murder comes out. I have even had ministers like that.<br />Do you honesty believe God will allow such people into His kingdom?<br /><br />Your comment about GTA demanding that members regard every word from ministers as words from Gods mouth, is not unique to Armstrongism. It is a lower working class belief which I frequently experience. In fact, most Herbie culture is lower working class 'morality' (I regard it as bully morality) with Pharisaic biblical window dressing. Observe school yard and workplace bullies, and compare it to Herbie ministers behaviour. They are identical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-40033905173480097682017-04-08T16:01:34.781-07:002017-04-08T16:01:34.781-07:00We'll never know the answers to your questions...We'll never know the answers to your questions, 3:13, because Yul Brynner died years ago!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-57187655134787404892017-04-08T15:36:10.894-07:002017-04-08T15:36:10.894-07:00I'm always entertained by the number of people...I'm always entertained by the number of people who say that the Hebrews "built the pyramids". The famous pyramids at Giza, the Step Pyramid of Zoser and the pyramids of Sneferu at Dashour are all imposing monuments, but they are earlier in history than the Hebrews. <br />Now, with a large chronology adjustment, it is remotely possible that Hebrew slaves built at least some of the Middle Kingdom mudbrick pyramids, most of which survive today as shapeless lumps and ruined foundations. But the biblical account has them building cities, not pyramids.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-24563069677174916972017-04-08T15:13:59.730-07:002017-04-08T15:13:59.730-07:00Thats wonderful, 8:28a. And completely irrelevant....Thats wonderful, 8:28a. And completely irrelevant. <br />Who was the Pharoah of the Exodus? <br />Were coins and camels in use at that time?<br />Which building projects did the enslaved Hebrews participate in?<br />How many people were involved, and what happened in Egypt after the departure of their conscripted workforce?<br />Which mountain peak did they call Mount Sinai?<br />Which contemporary Egyptians records can we use to confirm the answers to the questions above?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-63995213994238658372017-04-08T14:13:58.688-07:002017-04-08T14:13:58.688-07:00This article probably wouldn't bother the Swed...This article probably wouldn't bother the Swedenborgians. I remember when their local church had a radio program around the same time as GTA, and just about every OT account their speaker read was explained as an allegory.Hosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285219921252563944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-91339491301932285872017-04-08T11:46:10.802-07:002017-04-08T11:46:10.802-07:00Yes it's embarrassing that people challenge De...Yes it's embarrassing that people challenge Dennis by condemning him and attacking him instead of attempting to tear apart his argument Christ silenced many critics of God with his wisdom and understanding. I believe in the bible and the creator anyway I saw a debate between atheists and a creationist regarding the Flood whether or not it happened and it was embarrassing to see the creationist destroyed he literally choked while the otherside brought fact after fact. And these atheist were very nice and not aggressive towards his faith. There is still much evidence in archaeology that support many bible stories. Once the bible was mocked over the lack of external evidence for the kingdom of Assyria but today we have evidence that it existed, the samething with the hittites, it is very often more sensational for the media to publicize critics calling the bible fiction but not so much so when evidence is found that supports the biblical record. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-92113414484087246382017-04-08T11:25:26.243-07:002017-04-08T11:25:26.243-07:00All the legalism! The problem comes into play whe...All the legalism! The problem comes into play when someone like an HWA or back in the day, GTA, issues an edict that you must take every word your minister speaks as if it came directly from Jesus Christ. <br /><br />First of all, we recognize that there have been differences of opinion in different regions by different ministers. Secondly, how many times have there been ministers who have been booted or left, and post mortem remarks were made to the effect that they never were converted? If you can't rely on the conversion of your minister, how can you take his every word as if it came directly from Jesus Christ?<br /><br />Armstrongism has historically mandated zero tolerance, as if attitude and grace were not factors in one's relationship with God. So you end up with ridiculous pronouncements about wearing your sabbath attire while listening to or watching the broadcast, or edicts surrounding micro-management of hair. Measurement of character based on actively consulting with and unquestioning obedience to every detail of what your minister says to you. <br /><br />Could this be something they orchestrated deliberately? Is this why most members have never pondered in detail Bible events that were most likely modified as they were translated from (actually paraphrased) ancient languages, or repeated in oral tradition for many years before they were recorded? The so-called doublets, dual reports in both Chronicles and Kings, which differ substantially from one another, should tip us off that the exact minutiae have been lost to antiquity. I'd like to know how ACOG members rationalize these doublets alone and by themselves, and how that informs their Bible study and affects their beliefs.<br /><br />Tinfoil hats are available for the extremists who center their lives around either of two opposing poles. Safety, and balance, are found somewhere in between. Fanaticism and extremism become a crippling weakness at some point. They affect ability to conduct loving relationships with either God or man.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-36433316434687230882017-04-08T09:21:26.209-07:002017-04-08T09:21:26.209-07:00It never ceases to amaze me that regardless of the...It never ceases to amaze me that regardless of the topic of discussion, some Armstrong shill, or manure stirring troll thinks the solution to the discussion is to dump Armstrongism cliches into the mix, like "evilution", "qualifying for the kingdom", or about the Holy Spirit supposedly confirming the false prophecies of Armstrongism for them in their prayers. Even if these were not so abysmally ignorant, they do nothing to advance the discussion. They are the blog equivalent of catcalls. <br /><br />Seekers of truth welcome different viewpoints. They may not embrace them and make them their own, but at least they consider and evaluate them. HWA redefined the phrase "truth seeker" to mean those who recognized him as being the sole arbiter of truth in the alleged endtimes. Stalwarts still remaining in Armstrongism do not believe that any further research is appropriate, or necessary. They've stopped looking, and believe that those who are still addressing a series of nagging questions that Armstrongism did not satisfactorily answer have "left the truth". <br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.com