tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post5804994246371199329..comments2024-03-28T22:34:16.707-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dennis Muses: 12 Step Program for MinistryNO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-38158299015060167452013-09-03T09:11:39.847-07:002013-09-03T09:11:39.847-07:00The "12 step" program has been a pox on ...The "12 step" program has been a pox on humanity. It's been proven that, with alcoholics, having 'no treatment at all' usually yields better or equal results compared to "working a 12 step program".<br /><br />Dennis, I hope your "12 Step Program for Ministry" does better than that!<br /><br />;-)<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-80194409142948562032013-09-02T16:53:37.174-07:002013-09-02T16:53:37.174-07:00Amen, Usher. To HWA, we were all just "resour...Amen, Usher. To HWA, we were all just "resources" that God had created for his (HWA's) use. Other than for that, we counted for nothing, as HWA made clear many, many times.<br /><br />Glenn ParkerGlennhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11415271830212951268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-34802347741707853282013-09-02T16:22:06.819-07:002013-09-02T16:22:06.819-07:00Dennis, thank you, obviously a very heartfelt post...Dennis, thank you, obviously a very heartfelt post.<br /><br />I think your recasting of the 12 Steps is describing a road to recovery from being not just a WCG form of fundamentalist "minister" but in fact, any type of biblically inerrant fundamentalist, whether minister or laymember, toward something closer to a Unitarian if not an agnostic (which is where my recovery has take me.) The difference being that to be a "minister" (in good conscience) requires a higher degree of emeshment with the organization and the dogma, and thus a much higher degree of cognitive dissonance to deal with. Throw in that your financial wellbeing is tied to it and you've got a perfect storm.<br /><br />I don't doubt that being a fundamentalist minister is depressing. Ironically, the very thing that caused me to lose my faith was when I decided to stop bullshitting so much (masks and such) and try to actually become a better xian. If <i>being a xian were my livelihood</i> into the bargain, I am sure I wouldn't have lasted much more than five years, not only as a minister, but even as a xian at all.<br /><br />When Dave Albert said you weren't a good fit for "the ministry" I don't think he meant you weren't a good fit for "ministry" <i>in general</i>, just that you weren't a good fit for the "COG ministry" as those are two very different animals. I don't think Dave Albert knew he meant this, because probably his only conception of "ministry" was the COG conception of it. I don't see how anyone who was naturally well-suited for "ministry" <i>in general</i> could ever be a good fit in the WCG "ministry" because being a WCG "minister" as intended by HWA and RCM meant being something closer to a policeman enforcer for HQ, and had really nothing to do with "ministry" as most everyone else on the planet would conceive of it.<br /><br />A good WCG "minister" owed a duty only to HQ to keep the tithe cows in their stalls and producing milk, but owed little or no duty to the members themselves as human beings in their own right, individuals with equal value and rights as any other (including [*gasp*] HWA himself), beyond that which was necessary to ensure their successful long-term exploitation. I am sorry if this does seem like a dark interpretation of the facts, and I am not saying that Dave Albert subscribed to this view at that time, nor even RCM today.<br /><br />But I do suspect that this was EXACTLY how HWA perceived things, if not at the beginning, certainly before his end. The human species totally exploits other species we call livestock, and nobody cares, not even me, but when one man treats another man as though he were literally a member of another species to be exploited such as a cow, a goat, or dare I say it, a sheep, there's something wrong with that. In America we fought a war to put an end to that. In the year the Titanic went down, I don't wonder if a 20-year old narcissist from Des Moine didn't survey the entire human race, but instead of seeing others like himself, he saw great herds of livestock, like the buffalo upon the prairies appeared to an earlier generation. And much like that earlier generation recognized that each of those stupid animals was a gold piece on 4 legs, HWA saw other people as gold pieces on two legs.Head Ushernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-23435137923912441622013-09-02T13:37:54.171-07:002013-09-02T13:37:54.171-07:00In hind sight, the COGs are founded first on proph...In hind sight, the COGs are founded first on prophecy and end of days foundations. Thus the disconnects with reality as time marches on and glorious speculations fall flat. It is , to me, a sign spiritual childishness that they never can much less will outgrow.<br />ddAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-41571409453690535892013-09-02T10:52:46.774-07:002013-09-02T10:52:46.774-07:00I read a newspaper article on this topic probably ...I read a newspaper article on this topic probably about 15 years ago, and I certainly saw many parallels with every job, or every career that one could consider.<br /><br />The basic complaint exposed in the article was that most who graduate from seminary or Bible college have a core concept of what it means to be a pastor. Most report these duties as preaching sermons, and ministering to congregation members on a one on one basis. Sometime during the course of their first pastorship, they discover that their "calling" has been stacked, or loaded up with important duties which fall outside of this core. Church finances, endless board meetings, and public relations are aspects of a successful ministry for which most had no classes. To say nothing of personal crises in faith, inner conflict over certain points of doctrine, or raising one's own family.<br /><br />Most parishioners are unaware of these factors. They simply see a leader leading, and unless someone confides in someone, nobody would suspect that pastor burnout even existed.<br /><br />This is one complex area in which we have to say "Score one for the Jews!" Rabbis seem to be an obvious exception possibly because in the Jewish tradition, dissent and argument are actually encouraged. There is also wide acknowledgement around the world that the Jewish people have better than average financial skill. And although known for frugality, they practically wrote the book on charity.<br /><br />I've often wondered why people who love Jesus, the sabbath, holydays, clean meats and tithing don't simply jettison the ridiculous extrabiblical theories and prophecy nonsense, and hook up with a Messianic church. <br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.com