tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post623376809893050650..comments2024-03-28T11:27:04.027-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dennis muses...NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-5598489958508624752013-12-06T13:56:40.467-08:002013-12-06T13:56:40.467-08:00Hi Norm, Thanks for you comment. It was "Th...Hi Norm, Thanks for you comment. It was "The Church Member Bill of Rights" <br /><br />http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Church-Members-Bill-of-Rights----Basic-Rights-Any-Member-of-a-Church-Should-Expect-to-Enjoy&id=165318<br /><br />I know folk are sincere in their desire to know "the truth" I find more truth in the real world neurocience, quantum phyics , cosmology and paleontolgy as you know. Faith is just faith. It is really not testable in any way that would lead one to knowing the truth of matters, in my experience. <br /><br />I know the temptation to refind religion after the WCG fiasco and while I can get emotional and wishful over any number of topics, I alway return to what seem to actually be and not what I wish was.<br /><br />HD, one never finds science apologizing to religion. And it takes hundreds of years for organized churches to "recognize" the realities of science done well as we say. The RCC admits to the reality of evolution and the Episcopal Priest I spoke with admitted the Bible had problems if one was going to insist on inerrancy etc. He also knew of course that Genesis was not the how we got here . If I was an Episcopal Priest, I'd fit in just fine, evidently, as is :)<br /><br />BB said: "Unresolved trauma is usually the stimulant needed to force people to rethink their core beliefs and or values."<br /><br />That's exactly right Bob. It takes a push to grow or as I say, walking forward is merely a controlled crash. I would not be here if I had not been there. I would not have had the guts to examine my own deeply personal observations had WCG not made such a fool out of itself and me along the way. It motivates, or did me, to say, "if you guys can come up with all that and think to force it on me, I can take a better look at the doubts I have had for years about the Bible itself. <br /><br />The 'prosperity gospel" is the kind of bullshit matierialistic religionists come up with to feel happy slappy good about it all. It is the most shallow of all gospel views. Fits Americans well.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-30043955770838978042013-12-06T13:54:26.344-08:002013-12-06T13:54:26.344-08:00The Ray thing struck close to home, because it hap...The Ray thing struck close to home, because it happened in my particular neck of the woods. The linked article actually makes reference to Ray using the term "guru". The first time I heard that word back in my teens, I took an instant dislike to it, because I noticed that once someone was under the influence of a guru, you could no longer speak to that individual directly. In conversation, all they would do is to spout the teachings of their guru, and mostly act in his valence. They had lost or subverted "self", and not just for the sake of benevolence.<br /><br />Ray was obviously pressuring people to act outside of their comfort level by assigning such tasks as functioning as homeless people. He did not do his homework properly, or put enough thought into the ways the assignments might affect specific personality types. There are certain things that not just anyone can do. As a motorcycle enthusiast, I never did get into color coordinated leathers and helmets with two way radios. Most of the time, I looked like a motorcycle gang member without the patch. My mere presence offended certain classes of society. If I were asigned ratty levis, a smelly sweatshirt, and tennies with the toes out, it would be no problem panhandling my way through the weekend. But, let's say some sochie lady from Bel Air or Beverly Hills were dressed in rags and sent out on the streets to fend for herself. It would probably be such an instantly devastating shock, that one could understand any number of bad internal reactions, although suicide seems a bit extreme. Clearly, better profiling needed to be done by Ray's group.<br /><br />The prosperity gospel is spoken of with ridicule in many Christian Churches. It may seem funny to say this, but this type of gospel limits God to one way of mentoring to his children. I know that some people are mentored to through prosperity. However, it is unrealistic to see that as the only possible result of commitment to Jesus Christ. Large numbers of people need to learn lessons and kingdom skills that have nothing to do with prosperity. Life is an interactive process, not a vacuum thing, and regardless of intelligence, financial status, race, sexual orientation, or health status, there are ups and downs. Peoples' faith and belief systems, if balanced, often help them to deal with the roller coaster of life.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-83426505303370219752013-12-06T10:55:57.979-08:002013-12-06T10:55:57.979-08:00Here's another article about something gone wr...Here's another article about something gone wrong in the 11 billion dollar a year "self help" industry.<br />It's an older article, but worth the read.<br /><br /><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/james-arthur-ray-arizona-sweat-lodge/story?id=11016900" rel="nofollow">Here's the link.</a><br /><br />What Ray and so many other other self-help gurus teach is almost exactly "The prosperity gospel" that most of today's Christian preachers preach on the popular Daystar and Trinity Broadcasting Networks on television- - (it's not surprising that this would appeal to many people, given the message is that you can become a better person AND make lots of money while doing so). The buzzwords are the same and there's very little difference between the two teachings, although one is secular and the other is not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-79542788168893429292013-12-06T10:38:30.866-08:002013-12-06T10:38:30.866-08:00What I've come to realize is that there are va...What I've come to realize is that there are various resources out there which can help people to deal with their own humanness, external problematic events which effect them, and the ethics with which they deal with others. The problem is, people often resort to extremes, when mild adjustments would produce a more balanced approach. Armstrongism is just such an extreme, exhibiting the worst elements, including nearly total surrender of one's mind to a corporate entity which they equate with God. I mean, you can just take a perfunctory look at a James Malm, or a David Pack and instantly realize that any purported strength, if taken to extreme, becomes a destructive weakness. Yet, "gurus" teach total commitment, or the drinking of their Kool Aid, ie "totally buying into" it all.<br /><br />There are some people who are helped towards healing by training, or a more structured life, but it doesn't necessarily follow that one size fits all in this. Years ago, I had a friend who had been raised in WCG, and was struggling at a certain point in his life. I more or less lost him as a friend when he joined the Church of Scientology. At one point, I even read Dianetics in an attempt to understand, and relate. I've recently learned that he went on to become an award winning digital colorist in the motion picture industry, and has enjoyed a stable marriage and family throughout the elapsed time since I last chatted with him. He is still a Scientologist. Obviously, he found healing, and has lived a successful life, though it is doubtful that any sort of friendship could be rekindled. Actually, his well-being is more important to me than being able to conduct a friendship. <br /><br />There is a very small minority of people whose quality of life probably has been improved by Armstrongism. I shudder at the state one's mental condition would need to be in so that this could be true, but why else would there be unwavering lifers in that philosophy who even go to the extreme of hopping from group to group, rather than leaving it completely behind? <br /><br />Unresolved trauma is usually the stimulant needed to force people to rethink their core beliefs and or values. Some of us would think of the failure of 1975 as being sufficiently traumatic, or the continued failure of the Armstrong prophecy mode, the sudden absurdity of British Israelism in the face of science, or incest or tax scandals. The problem is that each of us as individuals has a certain threshhold of trauma, and apparently there are some with an unbelievable tolerance for it. It is not a thing easily understood.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-58077487498287671402013-12-06T09:24:18.417-08:002013-12-06T09:24:18.417-08:00This is part of my problem with xianity, but also ...This is part of my problem with xianity, but also religion in general. Xianity is comprised of 1) reactionary factions such as fundamentalism that try to keep everything the same as they been for thousands of years, and 2) liberal factions that pander to whatever ideas happen to be trendy within the prevailing culture. The same thing holds true for other religions also, since a rapidly changing world is going to present similar challenges to any static belief system.<br /><br />Despite all the new things that result from the interaction of science, technology, and culture, the only "new" things in xianity are reinterpretations of the old so as to downplay currently unfashionable xian ideas such as slavery, racism, hate speech, and the earth-centered planetary system. Other than that, religion is prettymuch closed, and any other new things are clearly labeled as "heresy."<br /><br />If religion were "the truth" science would be playing catch-up to religion's foreknowledge, instead of religion having to keep adjusting itself to comply to new scientific discoveries, and the liberal rationalizations would simply be unnecessary because religion would be out in front of all these issues, having claimed all the moral high ground eons ago. The fact that it lags behind in both moral and scientific issues is very telling. In my opinion, as a wisdom tradition, xianity just isn't all that wise. So, at what point in one's life does religion become too intellectually claustrophobic to be tolerable? To me, it's an environment that's become absolutely stifling.Head Ushernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-76554434136348614742013-12-06T08:17:50.877-08:002013-12-06T08:17:50.877-08:00Dennis,
Thanks for your efforts to help people av...Dennis,<br /><br />Thanks for your efforts to help people avoid the heartache that often comes to good people who seek improvement, and in the process get caught up in dealing with people who cause harm.<br />In the past you've posted an excellent "bill of rights" (or maybe you called it something different- I'm going on memory) for those considering involvemet with a church.<br />Today I watched a video that's along similar lines. <br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ZFNPFJuyY" rel="nofollow">Here's the link.</a><br /><br />I've witnessed such negative changes in persons as a result of such things as joining churches/religions, as well as the result of involvment in various things such as self-help trainings and salesmanship trainings.<br />Oddly enough, these folks will typically praise what they've "learned" and speak of having become a person of greater integrity, although their actions belie such claims.<br /><br />NormAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com