tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post6498861580875575253..comments2024-03-28T15:57:41.942-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dennis On: Dave Pack: "...I have the authority to tell you to do it..."NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-6949235748788488292013-07-03T00:59:49.408-07:002013-07-03T00:59:49.408-07:00Excellent insights about Paul from Dennis and Cork...Excellent insights about Paul from Dennis and Corky.<br />Thanks, guys- and thanks for your write-up, too, Corky!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-18351964483865379662013-07-02T16:05:52.125-07:002013-07-02T16:05:52.125-07:00ha! ha! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-90297132990823111072013-07-02T10:31:12.348-07:002013-07-02T10:31:12.348-07:00Byker Bob said...
I've often wondered how cer...Byker Bob said...<br /><br /><i>I've often wondered how certain members of my family could continue in Armstrongism, but with them having spent upwards of 55 years in it, leaving their belief system, their concepts of and hopes for the future, and whatever long term friends with whom they are permitted by their current ACOG to associate may be more damaging than just hanging in there and eventually dying in their faith. At least they are not with one of the blatantly absurd groups.</i><br /><br />Well, they're all blatantly absurd but yeah, it probably would be better if they continued where they are. The trauma of leaving might be too much for long time members and long time friends would be automatically lost to them at the same time. Even just day-to-day routines would be all turned around.<br /><br />It was painful for me and I was only involved for about 18 years and I was still young at the time. Of course, some people can leave and never look back and be as if nothing had happened. Unfortunately for me, I wasn't one of those - and I suppose no one else on this blog is either.Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-30099834111590045422013-07-02T09:24:55.563-07:002013-07-02T09:24:55.563-07:00Pack and Flurry are as despicable as the Mike Murd...Pack and Flurry are as despicable as the Mike Murdocks, Robert Tiltons and Todd Coontzs of the religious world. Take, extort, lie, do whatever you have to do to get your hands on the money. Absolutely shameless, and at the same time shameful.Assistant Deaconnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-62998404776724697172013-07-02T08:20:18.224-07:002013-07-02T08:20:18.224-07:00Redfox and Douglas, the answer may be age and tenu...Redfox and Douglas, the answer may be age and tenure. We've all been aware of the greying of the ACOGs, and the percentages of people's lives actually wasted in Pavlovian response to Armstrongism (or we could also invoke Stockholm syndrome in the case of the toxically strict splinters). Who knows why, but for some reason, people find reason to soldier on, to keep on clinging. Or as the old Rod Stewart song says, finding reason to believe. Stuff we've all found to be terminal like failure of their prophecy, or the blatant mistruth of British Israelism, numerous people excuse and give them a pass on. They also, with the exception of GTA, don't believe that their leaders sin, particularly HWA. It defies logic, but perhaps that is the nature of cultism, or illustrates the nature of the types of people attracted to a cult. I don't fit the profile, because I was dragged into it by my parents. Some grew into that profile, but somehow, I never did.<br /><br />I've often wondered how certain members of my family could continue in Armstrongism, but with them having spent upwards of 55 years in it, leaving their belief system, their concepts of and hopes for the future, and whatever long term friends with whom they are permitted by their current ACOG to associate may be more damaging than just hanging in there and eventually dying in their faith. At least they are not with one of the blatantly absurd groups. <br /><br />There have been several "big bangs" which should have produced mass exodus, but somehow they never have that effect. You'd think there wouldn't be a single person left in Weinland's group, but I'll just go on record as forecasting that when he gets out of the pen, his people are going to regard it as if Nero had exonerated Paul!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-59754214453446118832013-07-02T08:10:28.863-07:002013-07-02T08:10:28.863-07:00Does anyone know exactly how many dumb sheep Davey...Does anyone know exactly how many dumb sheep Davey boy has in his splinter cult?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07190072973897851057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-80642774088888948872013-07-02T07:37:47.111-07:002013-07-02T07:37:47.111-07:00Another great Plain Truth article, Dennis!
Dennis...Another great Plain Truth article, Dennis!<br /><br />Dennis said, "He's doing it again with the lie that somehow a minor prophet in Israel, 2500 years ago actually had David in mind as the fulfillment of the mere type Joshua the High Priest was in Haggai's day".<br /><br />MY COMMENT - You mean Haggai didn't come out of his mother's womb 2,500 years ago with Dave Pack in mind? GHASTLY, LOL! <br /><br />Richard Lake of Fire Church of Godnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-63603818725614580382013-07-02T06:35:33.529-07:002013-07-02T06:35:33.529-07:00Redfox, truthfully, those of us over at the Ronald...Redfox, truthfully, those of us over at the Ronald Weinland False Prophet blog sort of expected the same thing: The prophecies fail and there's a mass exodus. Mostly, it didn't happen.<br /><br />In fact, by this time, because a broad number of people know that British Israelism is rubbish, you'd think that people would leave the Cult of Herbert Armstrong entirely and not be a part of any of it, but here we are, in the midst of fragmentation of a sect (better known as a cult) with supporters of scrap clinging to their garbage pile (and The Journal isn't helping much -- you'd think that people who saw those terrible silly ads of nonsense would finally get the picture).<br /><br />As near as any of us can tell, the real answer is <a href="http://hwarmstrong.com/wordpress/2013/06/30/hubris/" rel="nofollow">hubris</a>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-38754251677192362652013-07-02T03:31:57.013-07:002013-07-02T03:31:57.013-07:00Corky said...
Dennis, I don't think I would sa...Corky said...<br />Dennis, I don't think I would say that "Luke" was exactly Paul's PR man because he disagreed with Paul's own story. I think the writer of Acts is just trying to make Paul look like he was, in the end, in agreement with the Jerusalem group when he actually wasn't.<br /><br /><br />You're right Corky. I chose the wrong word. Luke did tell a more bizzare and dramatic conversion story for Paul than Paul actually did. While Luke had the Road to Damascus hallucination for Paul, Paul just said he was called from the womb like Jeremiah and Jesus. Humble guy there. <br /><br />Also, Paul said he "saw" Jesus just like the other Apostles but we know Paul only saw Jesus in his head. The word means "experienced" This may indicate that whoever he thought the Apostles were , they all experinenced Jesus in their minds and not in reality. The Gospels were written decades after Paul said this and before Jesus was brought down to earth from the heavenly and cosmic Jesus Christ of Paul.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-62690058828633518122013-07-01T21:20:38.844-07:002013-07-01T21:20:38.844-07:00There was one man who was cast out of RCG because ...There was one man who was cast out of RCG because of Dave Pack’s increasing lunacy: Michael Venish. From what I gather he disagreed with Pack’s decision to proclaim himself a type of Joshua and with Pack’s decision to build such a lavish Headquarters complex. Because of that he was disfellowshipped and cast out of RCG.<br /><br />It does not surprise me that we have not seen defections while Pack has been hyping up his followers with these bizarre “special announcements”. But I am hopeful that after these predictions fail miserably some RCG members will wake up and realize they can better spend their time and money elsewhere.<br /><br />That is what happened after World War II. HWA predicted that World War II would only end with the return of Christ. That failed. Many of his followers in the congregations in Oregon left HWA in disgust. That might be the real reason he moved to Pasadena. He was running away from his crumbling congregation.<br /><br />That is what happened after the Great Disappointment of 1972. For nineteen years HWA got his followers prepared to flee to Petra at the start of the Great Tribulation. This prediction failed miserably and helped set the stage for many glorious acts of resistance against HWA’s tyranny: the mass defection of 1974, Al Caruzzo blowing the whistle on Garner Ted Armstrong’s rampant womanizing, the publication of the Ambassador Report, the schism of 1978 after HWA viciously cast out his own son, the receivership of 1979 to stamp out corruption within WCG HQ, the mass defection of about 300 WCG members in Hawaii led by John Ouvrier in 1979, the fall of Stanley Rader in 1981, etc.<br /><br />There does not appear to be defections yet. I think there will be defections once RCG members perceive that Pack was unable to deliver his absurd promises.<br />Redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/17734930967002040931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-47171938665751201802013-07-01T19:29:57.329-07:002013-07-01T19:29:57.329-07:00Dennis, I don't think I would say that "L...Dennis, I don't think I would say that "Luke" was exactly Paul's PR man because he disagreed with Paul's own story. I think the writer of Acts is just trying to make Paul look like he was, in the end, in agreement with the Jerusalem group when he actually wasn't.<br /><br />Paul was the forgotten apostle until the time of Marcion. Nobody quoted Paul until about 140 AD, maybe even later. Which means that Paul's letters were not read in the churches until after Marcion. Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-33322586911751951562013-07-01T18:10:42.485-07:002013-07-01T18:10:42.485-07:00Davie Pack has never committed any major sin, just...Davie Pack has never committed any major sin, just unpardonable ones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-74016715542053908752013-07-01T18:02:41.350-07:002013-07-01T18:02:41.350-07:00Yes Corky, Even the evidence of the Apostle Paul p...Yes Corky, Even the evidence of the Apostle Paul points to him being self appointed with no one else in the NT calling him an apostle save for Luke who was his PR man. Of the 24 times in the NT Paul is called an Apostle, 2 are Luke and 22 are Paul of himself. No one outside of him seemed to think so. <br /><br />But in all men is not this knowledge...DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-55695211392087271982013-07-01T17:35:14.766-07:002013-07-01T17:35:14.766-07:00Great post Dennis!
Speaking of Dave Pack not hav...Great post Dennis! <br /><br />Speaking of Dave Pack not having authority because it is self appointed authority - the same is true of the apostle Paul. <br /><br />He (Paul) wasn't ordained as an apostle and his so-called vision was only his own. He appointed himself as an apostle based on this so-called vision and went to Arabia to preach for 3 years before even visiting with an apostle.<br /><br />We, the readers of Galatians, have only Paul's word for this revelation and vision that he supposedly had. It seems to work because his letters take up a lot of the NT Canon. <br /><br />The writer of Acts seems to believe that Paul had a vision but tells an <a href="http://ex-christo.blogspot.com/2013/05/paul-vs-luke.html" rel="nofollow">entirely different story</a> than Paul does in his letter to the Galatians. Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-13783787807161450362013-07-01T17:06:08.240-07:002013-07-01T17:06:08.240-07:00When L. Ron Hubbard first came up with Scientology...When L. Ron Hubbard first came up with Scientology and he made up this story about how 85 million years ago there was an Evil Alien Overlord named Xenu who brought a bunch of other aliens he didn't like to Planet Earth where he blew them up with nuclear bombs, did nobody balk at that? My first question when I heard this was, "<i>And you know this HOW???</i>" Please cite your source. Where did you come by this "information"?<br /><br />When Dave Pack, or anyone else for that matter, says:<br /><br />"Jesus Christ is the head of this church"<br />"Mr. Armstrong was Zerubbabel, and I am Joshua"<br />"Mr. Armstrong was a Apostle"<br />"I am god's end-time apostle"<br />"I have apostolic authority"<br />"I have never committed any 'major' sin"<br />"God backs me even if I am wrong"<br />"There is only one place where god is working"<br />"... has been revealed only to 'god’s church'"<br />"If you are not in this church ... you are headed toward losing 'god’s spirit' and eternal death"<br />"God has given me the gift a 'spiritual discernment'"<br />"We officially entered the Typical Laodicean era ... on October 7th 2011"<br />"I'm telling you be followers of me on Christ's authority"<br />"If you're not ready [to give all your assets] then obviously, you don't care what God says"<br />"God is in this decision, no question."<br />"Your faith is being tested"<br />"The prophecy applies to THIS SUMMER—August 30, 2013"<br /><br />"<i>And you know this HOW???</i>" They don't know it at all. There's no source. They just made it up.<br /><br />Each and every one of those statements is a lie, or even a bundle of lies. Each one of them is predicated upon a mountain of other lies.<br /><br />The agreement to be a member in good standing of a COG is an agreement to give up healthy boundaries, and be the willing victim of systematic abuse.<br /><br /><br /><br />Head Ushernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-19488527937238837072013-07-01T16:45:19.656-07:002013-07-01T16:45:19.656-07:00I suspect the gospel huckster, David Pack, has som...I suspect the gospel huckster, David Pack, has some large bills and /or mortgage payments due soon. He needs your money to pay the bills. Send it now, or else he might lose it all to the banks. He might also need a new car.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-30342677825096782922013-07-01T16:22:45.346-07:002013-07-01T16:22:45.346-07:00Listen! Ah the Self-Appointed False Prophet has s...Listen! Ah the Self-Appointed False Prophet has spoken. The impostor, the wolf in sheep clothing. This guy is a fake minister of God who is just after money, money, and money. He thinks he is legitimate minister? He names his church Church of God? If I legitimately change my name to Rockefeller, would I have a pie in the Rockefeller wealth? Foolish thought. That is what Pack and the rest of the HWA remnant churches are, including Flurry, Meredith, even HWA himself. Impostors who are just after money, money, money! This what I can say to these people - just go to hell and please don't bring with you innocent people whose only aim is to please, honor, and serve God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-51788068534113873572013-07-01T15:43:53.423-07:002013-07-01T15:43:53.423-07:00Excellent Post Dennis!
For Dennis...It is obviou...Excellent Post Dennis! <br /><br />For Dennis...It is obvious, and the calling is begotten...<br /><br />DENNIS DIEHL FOR US PRESIDENT 2016! <br /><br />You got at least one vote here! <br /><br />Joe Moeller <br />Cody, WY Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762918803284340960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-49434001308307985912013-07-01T14:38:04.041-07:002013-07-01T14:38:04.041-07:00Davie Pack will continue this behavior and probabl...Davie Pack will continue this behavior and probably won't be stopped, because there don't seem to be any practicing exorcists any more.<br /><br />Sam and Dean have taken the summer off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-83910340578952205512013-07-01T11:29:21.816-07:002013-07-01T11:29:21.816-07:00Lie #14:
I am not an atheist (because I AM GOD!)....Lie #14:<br /><br />I am not an atheist (because I AM GOD!).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-39867541157446608432013-07-01T11:23:02.782-07:002013-07-01T11:23:02.782-07:00Lie #13:
The RCG is NOT a cult!Lie #13:<br /><br />The RCG is NOT a cult!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-62510601245386865332013-07-01T11:17:00.239-07:002013-07-01T11:17:00.239-07:00"I must decrease while you must increase.&quo..."I must decrease while you must increase." If I think of myself as John the Baptist . . . He was talking of Jesus, so . . . aha! Have I discovered who Pack-Man really thinks he is?<br /> <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-90575522790183077522013-07-01T11:05:32.205-07:002013-07-01T11:05:32.205-07:00Also, I hope the sheep realize what us tomcats tha...Also, I hope the sheep realize what us tomcats that you can't herd have known for some time. When these guys ordain themselves to the highest supposedly Biblical offices, like apostle or prophet, the intimidating assumption which normally would accompany that is that the greater the title, the more one should be in awe and fear to stand up to, or challenge them. It's like, whoa, don't even try! <br /><br />Two very important things to remember:<br /><br />1). Charlatans do exist, so always do your due diligence. What leads you to the conclusion that your "apostle" has the undeniable witness of God supporting him? <br /><br />2). As Garner Ted used to say, authority only exists where you choose to accept it. Don't accept the authority of a charlatan simply because he bullies you. The genuine item would not do that.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-62070935595997499392013-07-01T10:53:30.705-07:002013-07-01T10:53:30.705-07:00Well there are 12 sins right there that the Apostl...Well there are 12 sins right there that the Apostle Joshua Pack can remove from himself as "filthy rags." Oh..no. Sorry, his sins were that he hung around the other splinters too long before realizing who he was in Biblical and Theological history. <br /><br />My bad....He has no sin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-69023023758154305122013-07-01T09:38:48.426-07:002013-07-01T09:38:48.426-07:00GOOD article! I hope it reaches some of the right...GOOD article! I hope it reaches some of the right people, and that they listen in time to avoid being victimized.<br /><br />Lots of good detail, and common sense, but to me the bottom line is that David C. Pack, aka Josh, is just one more in a series of Armstrongite charlatans. He is nothing that his ego leads him to claim to be.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.com