tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post6894362006457584903..comments2024-03-29T02:57:52.065-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dave Pack: My Church Is So Amazing "It will take your breath and leave your ears ringing."NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-53389409856301161212013-03-20T18:46:29.528-07:002013-03-20T18:46:29.528-07:00"Velvet, remembering discussions we have had ..."Velvet, remembering discussions we have had in the past, I did strongly suspected that we are now like minded on this particular issue."<br /><br />We were like minded on this particular issue in the past as well, Questeruk; I can recall Jeff Miller deleting his blog shortly after I made the remark that at least the Church's stance on same, was better than the "eternal hellfire and damnation" Jeff was preaching. (I was a bitter atheist, by that point, thanks to Jeff.)<br /><br />Though, at the time, none of us knew Jeff was <i>literally</i> preaching that, because he lied by omission that he was a Baptist hireling, posing first as a non-believer, then posing as a newly- converted professing Christian, to suck other ex-members of the Church in to following the same poisonous path.Velvetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-38651054205430055962013-03-20T18:39:16.333-07:002013-03-20T18:39:16.333-07:00"If I have properly understood you, Velvet,&q..."If I have properly understood you, Velvet,"<br /><br />You have not, Anonymous @ 4:38pm. But, then, I don't have to justify myself to you, or anyone else here in this comments section. And I keep saying repeatedly that I don't see my own current worldview as "the one and only absolute truth" as I believe in progressive revelation. I have also said many many many many many times that I follow NO man or men, etc.<br /><br />But, yeah, I know I'm in for flack just for participating in these discussions, simply for being true to myself, and where I am being led/called to be. That's fine. <br /><br />You have painted a very black-and-white caricature of a person you do not know, and have never met, based only on a fraction of what I have said on an Internet message board. The real world, and the people in it, is a much more nuanced place, than a few black-and-white words on the Internet can even hope to suggest. Just my opinion.Velvetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-33670926889299318542013-03-20T18:33:04.374-07:002013-03-20T18:33:04.374-07:00"CGI stresses the “Surprising God”"
You..."CGI stresses the “Surprising God”"<br /><br />You mean GCI, I trust? And no, it doesn't really, that's just Ted Johnston's own personal, inane babblings. I mean, yeah, he's on the Internet, so people on these ex-member websites take him as "the public face of the Church" but in all honesty, <br /><br />Ted Johnston is to GCI what Bob Thiel was to LCG; hardly anyone in the Church, besides the "denominational leadership" and the other, equally disconnected-from-reality bloggers, even knows who Johnston <i>is</i>.<br /><br />And, yes, "the denominational leadership" spews such garbage as "we are many things to many people" and they teach/preach a tractable God; on the ground, in the congregations however, it's a very different story; the vast majority of the members I've spoken to, still reiterate that God is unchanging.<br /><br />Mind you, some of us also still consider ourselves to be non-denominational, regardless to what a few far-off (and far out) Americans may say and/or think on the matter.Velvetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-15104667689950173912013-03-20T07:44:56.596-07:002013-03-20T07:44:56.596-07:00"You just gotta admire the real love and tole...<i>"You just gotta admire the real love and tolerance religion can often engender, especially within it's most ardent devotees!"</i><br /><br />Yup. It reminds me of the Christians praying for biblical curses and terrible harm to befall Mikey Weinstein of the MRFF and his family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-48782493788942954102013-03-19T16:26:53.514-07:002013-03-19T16:26:53.514-07:00Wade Cox is a sicko. Wade Cox is a sicko. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-66888384513240173232013-03-19T06:38:47.131-07:002013-03-19T06:38:47.131-07:00Wade Cox and his wacko birds are clueless on just ...<i>Wade Cox and his wacko birds are clueless on just about everything</i><br /><br />Now, now, keep up everyone!<br /><br />In 2005, at least 85% of the feathered friends flew the coop and started their very own <a href="http://www.assemblyofeloah.org/main.cfm" rel="nofollow">God is One God, Assembly of Eloah</a>.<br /><br />The eschatology is exactly the same, just minus the chief cook and bottle washer: Instead of the leader going out and establishing a new congregation, the congregation went out and established a new leader.<br /><br />Consensus can be such a lovely thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-43841172074664487962013-03-18T21:39:31.077-07:002013-03-18T21:39:31.077-07:00I have always believed in 3 different resurrection...I have always believed in 3 different resurrections:<br /><br />1<i>i</i> st resurrection - those who god likes (pharisees in total denial)<br /><br />2<i>i</i> nd resurrection - those who god blinded because he doesn't like them very much<br /><br />3<i>i</i> rd resurrection - those who god blinded a second time because he hates them<br /><br />The <i>i</i> indicates that all three are imaginary numbers, just like the resurrections.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-28219516203087264472013-03-18T21:03:09.613-07:002013-03-18T21:03:09.613-07:00Agreed. To anyone somewhat familiar with ancient ...Agreed. To anyone somewhat familiar with ancient Middle Eastern history, and especially the leadership styles and customs of the time, this anthropomorphized view of a Creator is remarkably similar to the typical emotionally unstable and high vindictive tyrants common for the time and geographical location.<br /><br />King Nebuchadnezzar, for instance: quite easily offended, arrogant to the max, extremely impulsive, and very much into vengeance. Kind of like many Muslims STILL are in modern times, if I may be so bold as to say this in our politically-correct culture!<br /><br />Several years ago I did a lot of reading on radical Islam, and found out about a scholar named Daniel Pipes, who has written many superb books on the topic. One such book got some Muslim cleric so upset that he wrote out a curse intended for Pipes. It was the standard stuff these fanatics are always proclaiming - something to the effect that "May Allah in all His great holiness burn you alive and enjoy seeing you writhing in the worst possible pains and agonies in the most hideous places of hell, and then may He completely cover your body once again in the flesh and sinew of the most sensitive infant, only to burn it off even more slowly and painfully."<br /><br />You just gotta admire the real love and tolerance religion can often engender, especially within it's most ardent devotees!Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-84027601305871830302013-03-18T20:19:49.590-07:002013-03-18T20:19:49.590-07:00Leonardo, you say one minister had trouble defendi...Leonardo, you say one minister had trouble defending the idea of the 3rd resurrection because "it requires one to jump all over the Bible cherry-picking numerous passages in order to make it come out the way HWA understood it."<br /><br />Not only that, it requires one to assume that the lord god almighty has the childish vindictiveness of a young sociopath. An omniscient being would know by the time certain people died that they were not suitable for his long-range purposes, whatever those may be. It would be most efficient just to leave them dead. <br /><br />Why go through the extra step of waking them up just to kill them again? Sure looks like he gets his kicks out of watching his creatures weep and gnash their teeth as they are being judged and writhe and scream in pain when tossed into the lake of fire.Retired Profnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-87088910488784197362013-03-18T19:31:04.304-07:002013-03-18T19:31:04.304-07:00Well, PK, it is interesting, isn't it, that of...Well, PK, it is interesting, isn't it, that of all the "bad" people, as well as all the "bad" things being done during the time of the ministry of Jesus of Nazareth, the ones who received the harshest, most severe and most public verbal castigations were the highly religious, extremely judgmental, self-righteous Pharisees - and NOT the hookers, tax collectors, swindlers, political fanatics and many others who most folks would so easily have labeled as bad.<br /><br />Like I always say, ultimate reality may turn out far different than expected, perhaps most especially for those who arrogantly presume to have all the answers with respect to God, morality, etc.<br /><br />Just something to think about.Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-29205970138823206822013-03-18T19:09:36.046-07:002013-03-18T19:09:36.046-07:00I wish that were true. Then I wouldn't be such...I wish that were true. Then I wouldn't be such a disappointment to my family. I guess it depends on your definition of "bad" - to be rebellious or perpetuate a lie... Maybe I was the good kind?<br /><br />(Debatably) Bad PKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-28428377229728221772013-03-18T18:58:47.842-07:002013-03-18T18:58:47.842-07:00Anonymous 6:38 wrote: "There's a 3-part Y...Anonymous 6:38 wrote: "There's a 3-part YouTube video series entitled 'Fallacy of the Third Resurrection' that was uploaded a few years ago from the CCG group. Wade Cox and his wacko birds are clueless on just about everything, but they put a lot of research into this particular subject. Dave and Leo would both, most assuredly, raise objections and take issue with the presentation; so it must contain some value of truth for those with open-minded curiosity."<br /><br />Why exactly do you think I would take issue with the content of the videos? I've always been curious and open-minded, but the fact that you characterize the makers of this 3-part video series in the following way doesn't exactly inspire confidence: "Wade Cox and his wacko birds are clueless on just about everything..."<br /><br />You know, in the past I've been very willing to spend the time going through many such videos and/or website papers, etc. But quite honestly, the results have been that about nine times out of ten I find them even more loonier and poorly reasoned than the doctrine they supposedly are trying to dispute.<br /><br />But as far as the COG doctrine of the third resurrection, I had a WCG minister once openly admit to me that of all the doctrines of the old WCG, that's the one he had the hardest time understanding and explaining to people, as it requires one to jump all over the Bible cherry-picking numerous passages in order to make it come out the way HWA understood it.Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-46323032563756698362013-03-18T18:43:31.587-07:002013-03-18T18:43:31.587-07:00Velvet wrote: "So, Leo, where do I fit, in yo...Velvet wrote: "So, Leo, where do I fit, in your neatly-delineated categories?"<br /><br />Well, in view of some of your previous comments...<br /><br />"Best you get that in your head, otherwise you'll be walking a short plank yourself, come the Third Resurrection."<br /><br />"...with the Packatollah's false prophesying (let us not forget the "Clarion Call" sermon of 2008), if Pack isn't a good candidate for the Third Rez, I don't know WHO is."<br /><br />...it would seem perhaps category C (the lake of fire) might seem to fit best.Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-80652164688215267892013-03-18T18:38:48.778-07:002013-03-18T18:38:48.778-07:00There's a 3-part YouTube video series entitled...There's a 3-part YouTube video series entitled 'Fallacy of the Third Resurrection' that was uploaded a few years ago from the CCG group. Wade Cox and his wacko birds are clueless on just about everything, but they put a lot of research into this particular subject. Dave and Leo would both, most assuredly, raise objections and take issue with the presentation; so it must contain some value of truth for those with open-minded curiosity. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-73561683084433749842013-03-18T18:11:07.130-07:002013-03-18T18:11:07.130-07:00Now Anon 5:52, you've disappointed me! Just w...Now Anon 5:52, you've disappointed me! Just when I thought you were starting to achieve a bit more clarity (in virtue of your recent 21 word comment) now you regress back to your standard 4-word insults. My, my, you just can't seem to learn that hurling simplistic playground accusations over and over and over again just won't get you all that far in the real world of human interaction.<br /><br />May I suggest reading to deepen your thoughts and expand your extremely limited vocabulary? But something that will challenge you and stretch your current level of verbal expression, but not too far at first. Perhaps a Dick & Jane primary school reader might be a good start.<br /><br />As I mentioned to you on another thread: No wonder American business is having to spend 8 BILLION dollars a year teaching their college grad new-hires remedial English, so they can learn how to write an intelligible sentence, or paragraph, or post, or email that actually carries MEANING to readers!Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-89066860556345347672013-03-18T17:55:56.210-07:002013-03-18T17:55:56.210-07:00Questeruk, because I dismiss the many conflicting ...Questeruk, because I dismiss the many conflicting and unprovable claims put forth by supernatural religions, tend to be quite critical of fundamentalist Christianity in general, and of the COG version of it in particular, many would be quick to assign me to resurrection number 3. They are forced by circumstances to use that or similar threats because their views cannot be demonstrated factually or logically – and the more intellectually honest among them know it. That’s why religious views have to inevitably be forced upon people by threat of pain or death whenever their promoters have been granted the political/legal power to do so. It’s the only way they can.<br /><br />But I agree with you in general - uncertainty and confusion abounds in this area, even though so many traditionally religious folks WISH to claim certainty for their beliefs. <br /><br />My personal view (for what it's worth) is that IF there ultimately turns out to be some kind of Creator or SuperMind behind reality and all the known universe (or however else we could verbally describe such a being using the English language) I'm about 99% certain it will NOT end up being the petty, all-too-human, parochial gods that mankind has proposed of down through history, including the god of the Bible - just far too many contradictions and inconsistencies there for my mind I'm afraid.<br />Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-20547522092131280762013-03-18T17:52:47.219-07:002013-03-18T17:52:47.219-07:00"Quite predictably ... [predictable blather]...."Quite predictably ... [predictable blather]... " <br /> <br />Whatever you say windbag. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-90829636109807738432013-03-18T17:50:21.533-07:002013-03-18T17:50:21.533-07:00Genetic research has shown that Dave Pack is relat...Genetic research has shown that Dave Pack is related to all other windbags through his mitochondrial DNA (he has no Y chromosome).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-57303590907400849852013-03-18T17:22:38.539-07:002013-03-18T17:22:38.539-07:00Leonardo, I too would like to put it on record tha...Leonardo, I too would like to put it on record that I serious doubt if ANYONE in this age would be condemned to any ‘third resurrection’. I have never, and would never, suggest any such thing. <br /><br />In this era there is too much room for doubt and uncertainty for a loving God to condemn a person to such a fate.<br /><br />The way that many in the various COGs have conducted themselves only adds to the uncertainty in the minds of those prepared to look with an open mind at the issues. <br /><br />Velvet, remembering discussions we have had in the past, I did strongly suspected that we are now like minded on this particular issue. My previous comment was really to verify that was the case, which you have confirmed.<br />Questerukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06659962107808147107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-35063779347062137602013-03-18T16:46:14.651-07:002013-03-18T16:46:14.651-07:00"There are only two types of PKs (preacher..."<i>There are only two types of PKs</i> (<i>preacher's kids</i>). <i>I'm the other kind</i>...<br /><br /><i>Bad PK</i><br /><br />I always thought there was only one kind of PK, the bad kind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-11680191416647187022013-03-18T16:38:34.956-07:002013-03-18T16:38:34.956-07:00"...there is NO human government on earth tha..."<i>...there is NO human government on earth that has been appointed by God over His Church</i>. (<i>By which I am referring to the Worldwide Church of God, which has NOT lost its true name, contrary to Junior's shenanigans in the States. If that's a thing for you, that is; I believe the prophecy that our name will be changed, and the truth -- parts of it -- given to strangers, has been fulfilled, by Junior's actions in 2008</i>.)"<br /><br />Sooo, what I hear you saying is, you literally believe that:<br />A) GCI = WCG = god almighty's one and only true church/cult<br />B) Words written in the bible thousands of years ago were inspired by this almighty god by which god was referring specifically to the CGI/WCG organization and to Joe Tkach Jr. individually.<br /><br />If I have properly understood you, Velvet, then you are kookier than I thought!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-8753235359405831562013-03-18T16:19:57.448-07:002013-03-18T16:19:57.448-07:00So, Leo, where do I fit, in your neatly-delineated...So, Leo, where do I fit, in your neatly-delineated categories? Because I neither believe, nor look forward to, any of the options you've stated; I am more inclined to think that almost everyone will get a chance in the Second Rez; which is why it is paramount that we be non-judgemental of anyone in this life.<br /><br />Yes, I realize this is the opposite to what the Church used to teach; it was our bad attitudes (I include myself because I was really self-righteous when I was a kid) and the wrong perspective (time is short/the end is nigh etc.) that led to the changes and the chaos that hit in 1994.Velvetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-56897760262660517262013-03-18T16:14:05.869-07:002013-03-18T16:14:05.869-07:00More penis wagging from the false apostle. He'...More penis wagging from the false apostle. He's full of shit!Jameshttp://the-painful-truth-group.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-43694381419645966692013-03-18T15:51:38.925-07:002013-03-18T15:51:38.925-07:00Sung by the great Dusty Springfield in Sept. 1968...Sung by the great Dusty Springfield in Sept. 1968<br /><br />Joe Moeller <br />Cody, WY <br /><br />"Son Of A Preacher Man"<br /><br />Billy-Ray was a preacher's son<br />And when his daddy would visit he'd come along<br />When they gathered round and started talkin'<br />That's when Billy would take me walkin'<br />A-through the backyard we'd go walkin'<br />Then he'd look into my eyes<br />Lord knows to my surprise<br /><br />The only one who could ever reach me<br />Was the son of a preacher man<br />The only boy who could ever teach me<br />Was the son of a preacher man<br />Yes he was, he was<br />Ooh, yes he was<br /><br />Being good isn't always easy<br />No matter how hard I try<br />When he started sweet-talkin' to me<br />He'd come and tell me everything is all right<br />He'd kiss and tell me everything is all right<br />Can I get away again tonight?<br /><br />The only one who could ever reach me<br />Was the son of a preacher man<br />The only boy who could ever teach me<br />Was the son of a preacher man<br />Yes he was, he was<br />(Ooh...) Lord knows he was<br />Yes he was<br /><br />How well I remember<br />The look that was in his eyes<br />Stealin' kisses from me on the sly<br />Takin' time to make time<br />Tellin' me that he's all mine<br />Learnin' from each other's knowing<br />Lookin' to see how much we've grown<br /><br />And the only one who could ever reach me<br />Was the son of a preacher man<br />The only boy who could ever teach me<br />Was the son of a preacher man<br />Yes he was, he was<br />Ooh, yes he was<br /><br />The only one who could ever reach me<br />He was the sweet-talking son of a preacher man<br />The only boy who could ever teach me<br />I kissed the son of a preacher man<br />The only one who could ever move me<br />The sweet-lovin' son of a preacher man<br />The only one who could ever groove me<br />Ahh, ooh, ahh....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762918803284340960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-34676639627309427042013-03-18T15:37:25.478-07:002013-03-18T15:37:25.478-07:00Agreed! Any need to point out my obvious hypocriti...Agreed! Any need to point out my obvious hypocritical post about not posting? Thanks for pulling that punch. <br /><br />Bad PKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com