tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post7372486557026816797..comments2024-03-28T10:21:50.226-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Living Church of God Teen Dies At Summer Camp In Ohio NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-42585748952596485202015-08-10T02:38:22.592-07:002015-08-10T02:38:22.592-07:00Anon. 6:35am...who are you to tell others to consi...Anon. 6:35am...who are you to tell others to consider doing something else in their life just because you don't agree with what they are doing, especially without even knowing why they are doing it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-59361811787127974692015-08-10T02:31:25.912-07:002015-08-10T02:31:25.912-07:00Anon. 6:35 am.. You obviously miss the whole point...Anon. 6:35 am.. You obviously miss the whole point of focussing on CoG groups. Otherwise we may get caught up with them. If it wasn't for this blog doing so I might have followed one of these groups, but thankfully this is where I learned a lot about them and after finding out about a certain group, or groups, I have to wonder if certain leaders are even of God. Why are you here?Chucklesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-60553844347124560772015-08-07T08:47:57.795-07:002015-08-07T08:47:57.795-07:00I agree that this thread should be closed down if ...I agree that this thread should be closed down if not removed out of respect for the lost and those who loved her. Irrespective to the validity of the comments posted, the problem is that if someone searches for the name of the girl, as I did, in hopes to find the latest news regarding her death or how and where to share in their grief, this thread comes up. It is NOT going to help and will do more to hurt and frustrate. Please consider its destruction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-44051184298971980112015-08-06T06:35:39.189-07:002015-08-06T06:35:39.189-07:00Those who don't agree with or don't like C...<br />Those who don't agree with or don't like COG groups, consider doing something interesting and productive with your time that doesn't involve a COG group. Spending lots of time on the internet criticizing and complaining continues to focus your attention on COG's. Consider how much time you spend focusing on COG's. Consider moving on to focus on something else in your life. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-52685627987174968492015-08-06T06:28:40.568-07:002015-08-06T06:28:40.568-07:00"...more than you can bare" should be &q..."...more than you can bare" should be "more than you can bear."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-37026464230324515812015-08-05T08:28:46.837-07:002015-08-05T08:28:46.837-07:00In the case of racism, sensitive, sympathetic peop...In the case of racism, sensitive, sympathetic people normally allow the victims of it to inform us as to what racism is. And then, hopefully, improvements take place next time. Society, or groups, as a whole, become more sensitized as a result. It would seem that there is a similar, parallel, opportunity here that might be being missed. <br /><br />Nobody has played HWA's game of "blame the victim" here. That might be appropriate in cases where somebody needlessly dies as a result of not obtaining medical attention for a totally treatable illness or disease, goes to jail for tax evasion, or does something incredibly stupid because they acted on false prophecy, but not in the case of a random accident which could happen to anyone.<br /><br />Also, It's not as if photo-shopped pictures had been posted of the Black Ops tom cat attired in a sweater that read "Death is a gas!" here. Over all, there have been compassionate comments, with a few caveats thrown in regarding the non-Christian, non-Bible-based shibboleths of Armstrongism and being pondered. This has all been in the "take it to the next level" realm. Constructive criticism is not religious persecution. <br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-6089378304236170042015-08-04T17:44:13.268-07:002015-08-04T17:44:13.268-07:00I feel the same. Those comments are completely rud...I feel the same. Those comments are completely rude and insensitive. When my baby died, it DID help to be reminded that I would hold my baby again in The Kingdom. I'm sorry your faith doesn't allow those comments to comfort you. But, quit telling people what to say & what not to say & get that hateful chip off your shoulder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-13082077997958202852015-08-04T09:47:44.861-07:002015-08-04T09:47:44.861-07:00To all those posting here that want to bring up pa...To all those posting here that want to bring up past hurts due to the ignorance and insensitivity they have experienced or witnessed in the past (especially Dennis). While I can agree that insensitivity at time like this is reprehensible, how is that by bringing this up here and now - in the context of a tragedy such as this - how his it helpful to those who are grieving a loss? <br /><br />It strikes me that anyone who has to "go there" has not learned the lesson of the insensitive ignorance they they so readily complain about. <br /><br />Identifying a problem (Check)<br />Learning from mistakes of others (Not so much)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-61869973925968446862015-08-04T09:34:08.628-07:002015-08-04T09:34:08.628-07:00Thank you Dennis for all of your compassionate and...Thank you Dennis for all of your compassionate and helpful comments.Kennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-61340047884180655632015-08-04T06:43:04.634-07:002015-08-04T06:43:04.634-07:00It seems like LCG suffers a lot more illness and t...It seems like LCG suffers a lot more illness and tragedy than the average church. <br /><br />Some will say Satan is attacking them. Some will say God has removed His hand from their protection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-25709759161679392062015-08-04T06:11:12.497-07:002015-08-04T06:11:12.497-07:00Guys please stop arguing with one another, I'm...Guys please stop arguing with one another, I'm an atheist and stumbling across this just feel like crying even more after reading. I knew Morgan and she was a beautiful person, I'll miss her along many others who had interacted with her. If her parents and family (great people for sure even if we often don't agree) receive encouraging words from either ministers or passers by so be it, and if someone makes an unintended "gaffe" so be it too, so long there's no bad intention behind, they'll gracefully appreciate.<br />CiaoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-84042554449491808962015-08-04T02:22:16.017-07:002015-08-04T02:22:16.017-07:00I have never gone to a Living Church of God site, ...I have never gone to a Living Church of God site, but found it very offensive that you would use this sad time to have<br />a "discussion" This is not a time to share "issues", but a time to pray for the family and the young people that were there.<br />You are discussing issues that ministers and others have . . . what about the lack of wisdom that you have in talking about<br />these things at this time. Get the beam out of your eye. PLEASE WHOEVER IS MONITORING THIS DISCUSSION . . . CLOSE IT DOWN. IF I WERE MORGAN'S PARENTS IT WOULD ONLY ADD TO MY PAIN.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-50298641174901004012015-08-03T23:39:58.020-07:002015-08-03T23:39:58.020-07:00I find this comment that was made above extremely ...I find this comment that was made above extremely offensive: <br /><br />"We don't grieve as others do because we have something that others dont. Faith and hope in God."<br /><br />This is the problem with Armstrongism and other cults that feel they are set apart from all the unwashed heathen masses of the world. They and they alone are the true chosen of God and every other Christian on the face of the earth is pond scum. <br /><br />Are you really that stupid to believe that other Christians outside of the Armstrongite movement do not have faith and hope in God? You are a moron if you think so. Your so called knowledge is nothing special and has NOT set you aprt as the chosen of your god.<br /><br />This is exactly what has been discussed by others above that a few got pissed over. Most of the Armstrongite ministers out there lack empathy and mercy and will certainly say STUPID things in regards to Morgan's death. I was at an LCG funeral a while back and came away from it ready to vomit at the utter filth that I heard still being spouted as inspired. A pox on them all!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-66889998905883541232015-08-03T22:13:08.522-07:002015-08-03T22:13:08.522-07:00I live near a large lake which becomes very busy i...I live near a large lake which becomes very busy in summer. There are speed boats, some driven by inexperienced or careless drivers. It has been quite a problem for swimmers and people on small crafts and water skiers too. Over the last few years there have been several serious accidents where powerful boats have hit people. One was a young person who had been drinking and rented a speed boat and hit a man on a water ski. He survived but had serious injuries and had to learn to walk again. <br /><br />The smaller lake I live on does not allow boats greater than 10 hp, but even that is frightening to a person swimming. <br /><br />I do not know what happened to Morgan, but it does seem unnecessary for a speed boat to hit a skier, even if they had fallen in the water. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-15882099292149214502015-08-03T21:37:56.415-07:002015-08-03T21:37:56.415-07:00We had a lot of fun waterskiing at the original SE...We had a lot of fun waterskiing at the original SEP camps in Big Sandy and Orr. Back at that time, the boat population was nowhere near as great as it is today, so it was probably much safer. Plus, the instructors and boat drivers rally emphasized safety. Ray Johnson, a teacher at Imperial Schools, built a couple of really awesome ski boats. One was a catamaran powered by two Ford flathead V-8 motors, and several years later, he built a boat with a jet outdrive, powered by a Chevy V-8 engine. Water skiing was one of the highlights of SEP camp, and I can't begin to imagine the sad emotions all of us would have experienced had there been any type of misfortune.<br /><br />So far as the comments go, most of us remember the verbal ways in which Armstrongist ministers handled any number of events and experiences which affected us. In so many cases, these were horribly offensive, but we could not say or do anything about them at that time. We've learned that there really are much better, more caring things that can be said or done. When something beyond bad like this happens, people will often recall those things which were so hurtful from the past. Certainly none of the comments were directed towards Morgan or her family. They were directed towards those old, typical ways of handling events such as this, and towards the authority figures who use them. And, it's not so much a case of using a tragedy to take potshots at someone's church as it is taking shots at callousedness, and uncaring attitudes.<br /><br />Humans are driven by their emotions. Until that is no longer true, and until there are no longer partisan positions, even the most righteous are probably doomed to hurt and offend others. It is unfortunately part of the human condition.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-61663768192590528942015-08-03T20:12:12.434-07:002015-08-03T20:12:12.434-07:00Time and chance happens. Being in a particular re...Time and chance happens. Being in a particular religion doesn't change that. I know, we all thought it would back there in the times of fervor, but reality is reality and I hope this poor family gets through it and can move on. There's nobody to blame.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06884498391956732954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-25451405057405636532015-08-03T19:56:42.328-07:002015-08-03T19:56:42.328-07:00Anon said:
"Anyone who thinks otherwise is h... Anon said:<br /><br />"Anyone who thinks otherwise is here to start drama between groups and clearly has no idea what they talking about,"<br /><br />Personally, I clearly do know what I am talking about. My observations are not intended to promote drama between anyone or harboring a personal vendetta. I've had parents scream at me as a minister about "where was God" and then blame themselves for "not tithing as they should," or "We know we don't go to church and Bible study as we should." I have had to restrain, gently but firmly, to protect both them and myself, angry moms hitting me for a few seconds yelling "why why??" and then collapsing in my arms in tears apologizing . I have been dragged into morgues in the basements of hospitals by parents who want me to see their child almost unaware that they are deceased. "Doesn't she look so peaceful Mr. Diehl?" Shock does that. <br /><br />I have stood with a parent in the ER who rushed to be with a dying teen son because "I was there when he came into this world and I'm going to be there he leaves." I have endeavored to stop the bleeding for a teen son who failed to realize a gun cylinder rotates one more time when you pull the trigger and that will be it. It was it. Personally I have learned it is often best just to acknowledge the pain an forget trying to come up with some theological explanation that simply falls on deaf ears as such traumatic times as the sudden death of a child. Listening goes a lot further than talking at such times.<br /><br />I hope that whatever hope lies within one at such a time as this is helpful and encouraging and gets them through but never over such events. It is what every parent and grandparent fears in one form or another. <br /><br />At any rate, just endeavoring to be helpful with decades of minister/member/tragedy experiences and the insights and hurts the families who actually experienced such tragedies have shared with me or have come to me as complaints and hurts about how their minister was treating their grief and pain. <br /><br />My deepest condolences to all who mourn Morgan's tragic death. I have had it on my mind all day at work and know all concerned and so far away must be besides themselves with grief and shock. DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-69500213491966916942015-08-03T18:54:39.488-07:002015-08-03T18:54:39.488-07:00Unless yout are close to.Morgan or her family or f...Unless yout are close to.Morgan or her family or friends you have no right to say what it comforting and what is not. COG ministers have tried their best and have comforted alot of people in this situation. Anyone who thinks otherwise is here to start drama between groups and clearly has no idea what they talking about, they are using a terrible heartbreaking situation to harbor personal vendettas. It makes me sick to my stomach Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13896351146826258206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-69710669788545551162015-08-03T18:52:01.327-07:002015-08-03T18:52:01.327-07:00Unless you know Morgan and her family, or someone ...Unless you know Morgan and her family, or someone else close to this situation you have no right to say what is comforting and what is not. COG ministers have been very encouraging and helping in this situation. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly not close to these people or this situation Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13896351146826258206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-35338630298159796272015-08-03T18:48:52.778-07:002015-08-03T18:48:52.778-07:00I knew Morgan fairly well and I also know the mini...I knew Morgan fairly well and I also know the minister quite well. He would never say anything to offend anyone. We don't grieve as others do because we have something that others dont. Faith and hope in God. Morgan would not anyone to believe different she was a beautiful God fearing young woman whose raceway finished yes way to early and it's heart breaking but I have faith that I will see her agai . Your classless comment is rude and unappreciated. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13896351146826258206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-20723056699312257522015-08-03T17:41:21.569-07:002015-08-03T17:41:21.569-07:00@12:05 and 1:03 - I wonder why such upstanding mem...@12:05 and 1:03 - I wonder why such upstanding members and soldiers for all things COG would even be cruising and making comments on this site, unless you feel you have to be some type of crusader for all things YOU feel are appropriate? Totally agree that the family should be foremost in everyone's thought and prayers, but having been in and around the church for almost 50 years, the comments you take with such umbrage, have taken place. Especially during such times when the ministry should have been a place of safe haven for those you claim to support and not some hierarchical, self-righteous minion who seem to act like they were the absolute road to recovery, especially with such ill-spoken words that did more harm or left someone empty, than gave any comfort. I'm especially tired of LCG ministers, in particular, who seem to think that even a funeral, a time which should be comforting, is used as another "preach the gospel" platform, even using terms like "Mr. Blank would want you to know" and then blather on about their beliefs and not be a serving, and humble minister, which today is of and by itself, the ultimate dichotomy in the COG...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-68356974768483547192015-08-03T17:34:18.380-07:002015-08-03T17:34:18.380-07:00Now that makes sense.Now that makes sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-23106249776066282042015-08-03T14:42:07.966-07:002015-08-03T14:42:07.966-07:00Pointing out the potential pitfalls of well inten...Pointing out the potential pitfalls of well intended yet unhelpful comments is not classless. It is pre-emptive hoping to avoid the glib and not well thought out responses that are not in fact helpful. Having buried a number of children n hearing first hand from grieving parents of what and who helped and who n what did not help get through it , it's normal to encourage words fitly spoken during such a tragedy . If just ONE minister or member benefits from cautionary experiences then it is worth mentioning being cautious with overly simplistic comments no matter how well intended DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-16446539220684504882015-08-03T13:03:32.529-07:002015-08-03T13:03:32.529-07:00Inappropriate and classless comment. The family ...Inappropriate and classless comment. The family and everyone in LCG need our prayers. This is not the time to take your shots at the LCG clergy. Contrary to what you believe, your comment won't help COG ministers and members to be appropriately supportive of the family at this difficult time. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-20454664289323093242015-08-03T12:05:50.914-07:002015-08-03T12:05:50.914-07:00Some of the comments here are really disgusting. A...Some of the comments here are really disgusting. Are you not able to be Christians and put aside as least for on thread all your comments about the various COG and just respect the memory of this girl and the grief of her family? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com